FC
01-13-2004, 08:23 AM
I know there have been discussions on air-clooed vs water cooled and the respective issues. Here's a post I found at a Boxster board I visit (unfortunatelly I can't post the thread, but you can try to find it there to see the replies.) http://www.ppbb.com/board/986board.htm
"Well, perhaps we weren’t talking about it today, but aren’t we really always talking about it?
Standard disclaimer before I provide the following, I’m not saying I agree with or am heartened by the following comments made to me by a senior Porsche service tech (15+ years at senior levels) in a recent conversation.
I asked how common RMS failures were in his experience in M96 engines. He said north of 50%. Why so common, I asked. “Porsches leak”, he replied “They always have”. I asked about his beloved 993. He said the oil cooled engines leaked far more than the water cooled, and in fact, the service books provide for an “engine seal service” quote for the oil cooled engines for that very reason (he said that service isn’t uncommon every 60-80k miles). He also said the water cooled engines were more reliable overall. He said the overall lifetime maintenance costs on a water cooled engine would be roughly 50% of that of an oil cooled engine.
He said they’ll replace any RMS on a car under warranty, no matter how slight (oil drops on the garage floor aren’t required, any evidence of seepage will do), for a couple of reasons. First, Porsche is paying and the business is good. Second, to ensure there’s not a concentricity issue with the crankshaft which would require an engine replacement (a problem he says is uncommon on engines made after the first few years of the 986 run). A concentricity issue found after the warranty expires would most likely require some monetary input from the owner, unless he/she had been a regular user of Porsche service facilities, or had had RMS replaced in the past by the dealer.
When I asked about RMS problems in cars out of warranty, he said they usually tell the owners of manual transmission cars to wait until they replace the clutch (which he said is usually 60-80k miles) as there’ll be no damage to the engine if oil level is maintained and the additional cost of an RMS replacement is tiny. I asked if the leak would damage the clutch assembly and he said no, the leak is on the other side of the flywheel and wouldn’t contact the clutch. He said they often tell the owners of tips out of warranty to simply live with it unless or until the leak is significant (your guess is as good as mine as to what that means). If the car wasn’t bought by the current own at the dealership involved, and wasn’t regularly serviced there, they aren’t inclined to assist in the cost of an RMS replacement after the warranty expires.
Like I said, I’m not saying I agree with the above, nor do I have the technical expertise to contradict any of it. Needless to say, I didn’t leave with a warm, fuzzy about the M96 or Porsche’s out of warranty support for it."
Yet another reason why I will most definatlly consider only the next gen Boxster (assuming it's a great car and all and that they fixed this RMS issue). I wont be in the market for a roadster until years after its introduction anyways, so might as well wait and see how it came out.
"Well, perhaps we weren’t talking about it today, but aren’t we really always talking about it?
Standard disclaimer before I provide the following, I’m not saying I agree with or am heartened by the following comments made to me by a senior Porsche service tech (15+ years at senior levels) in a recent conversation.
I asked how common RMS failures were in his experience in M96 engines. He said north of 50%. Why so common, I asked. “Porsches leak”, he replied “They always have”. I asked about his beloved 993. He said the oil cooled engines leaked far more than the water cooled, and in fact, the service books provide for an “engine seal service” quote for the oil cooled engines for that very reason (he said that service isn’t uncommon every 60-80k miles). He also said the water cooled engines were more reliable overall. He said the overall lifetime maintenance costs on a water cooled engine would be roughly 50% of that of an oil cooled engine.
He said they’ll replace any RMS on a car under warranty, no matter how slight (oil drops on the garage floor aren’t required, any evidence of seepage will do), for a couple of reasons. First, Porsche is paying and the business is good. Second, to ensure there’s not a concentricity issue with the crankshaft which would require an engine replacement (a problem he says is uncommon on engines made after the first few years of the 986 run). A concentricity issue found after the warranty expires would most likely require some monetary input from the owner, unless he/she had been a regular user of Porsche service facilities, or had had RMS replaced in the past by the dealer.
When I asked about RMS problems in cars out of warranty, he said they usually tell the owners of manual transmission cars to wait until they replace the clutch (which he said is usually 60-80k miles) as there’ll be no damage to the engine if oil level is maintained and the additional cost of an RMS replacement is tiny. I asked if the leak would damage the clutch assembly and he said no, the leak is on the other side of the flywheel and wouldn’t contact the clutch. He said they often tell the owners of tips out of warranty to simply live with it unless or until the leak is significant (your guess is as good as mine as to what that means). If the car wasn’t bought by the current own at the dealership involved, and wasn’t regularly serviced there, they aren’t inclined to assist in the cost of an RMS replacement after the warranty expires.
Like I said, I’m not saying I agree with the above, nor do I have the technical expertise to contradict any of it. Needless to say, I didn’t leave with a warm, fuzzy about the M96 or Porsche’s out of warranty support for it."
Yet another reason why I will most definatlly consider only the next gen Boxster (assuming it's a great car and all and that they fixed this RMS issue). I wont be in the market for a roadster until years after its introduction anyways, so might as well wait and see how it came out.