View Full Version : Waffling contininues: Drove '01 E320 Wagon
Saw there was an '01 wagon 4 miles from home at a premium used car lot and took it for a spin.
I knew from the price ($16K) and mileage (88K) that I should not expect a mint example. It is all I expected, both good and bad. Very solid, typical-MB ride. Capable is the word that comes to mind. Fast does not. I had to really get on the gas for the slushie to down shift and the car to gain speed at a decent clip. Brake feel was good as was actual stopping power. Tranny was silky smooth and engine very refined. It was weird, it appeared as though it performed better than it did. It gave you a sense that it was really moving along nice and smoothly but a look at the speedo showed that actual performance was just good, not great. Steering wheel lacked thumbrests and had 4-spokes but what thick enough and the power wheel adjustments are great.
As a vehicle, it is pretty good and the cargo area is massive. This particular car was not well taken care of and the tan interior made this very apparent. Scuffs in and out, car was out of alignment, there was a shimmy at speeds as low as 40mph, brakes had some vibration in them, instrument digital display was broken, curb rash galore, and just an overall sense of high wear and tear.:ack:
Obviously on a car out of warranty and with potential for very expensive repairs, um, no way. All that said, my wife seemed very happy with it and happier still with the prospect of getting a better sample of this car for as little as $20K.
Looking around, there are CPO '02 wagons with ~50K miles for an asking price of mid-20K. CPO is 12 months up to 100K miles. MB is offering 1.9% financing on CPO E-cars. There are a couple of non-CPO "1-owner, mint condition" cars going for ~$20K.
A new V70R as a great deal will cost $40K+ (the best performer of the bunch, for sure). I think I rather own a new (or almost new) V70R than a late model E-wagon for the same $35-40K. And no question my wife and I both prefer the last-gen E-wagon over a used Outback for $20-25K.
While the performance of the E320 was only about as good as the 92X (though the brakes were better and the overall it was simply in a different league), it would still outperform most SUV's we'd consider. As a family/errand/winter/trip car I think it will do. I'll still have my BMW. I like the RWD nature of the car too. Finally, we would stand to lose less in depreciation if we decide to ditch it in a few years (one would think).
If we were to go down the E320 route, does it make sense to sell the 92X now, or would waiting 'till spring make more sense? I'd think a 1.5 year-old car would depreciate more over the next 6 months than a 4/5 year old car, but maybe having any potential new 92X's finally gone from dealer lots forever help boost resale a bit for used cars?:dunno:
Of course, I could also just try to sell the 92X patiently and make do with one car if the right E320 can't be found. Again, :dunno:
Any thoughts welcome, and sorry for the long post.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Mercedes-Benz-E-Class-Station-Wgn-2004-MERCEDES-BENZ-E320-WAGON-VERY-CLEAN_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ6335QQihZ017QQite mZ270060906985QQrdZ1
No AWD and high miles, but what a deal. There must be something wrong with it.
Nick M3
12-03-2006, 10:12 PM
Reserve not met.
And IIRC, that's pretty typical for the RWD examples.
Reserve not met.
And IIRC, that's pretty typical for the RWD examples.
I figured. Still, considering the highly suspect reliability of early W211's, and the fact that it has the same engine as the the last-gen, I rather go with an '01-'03. The current gen ('04+) is far more beautiful though.
Nick M3
12-04-2006, 07:33 AM
I figured. Still, considering the highly suspect reliability of early W211's, and the fact that it has the same engine as the the last-gen, I rather go with an '01-'03. The current gen ('04+) is far more beautiful though.
FWIW, I drove a '99 4Matic for three years. Aside from the sway bar that I snapped in half, it was "dead nuts reliable." And that comes with the Nick Rubenstein Long Term Durability Testing seal of approval. :D
FWIW, I drove a '99 4Matic for three years. Aside from the sway bar that I snapped in half, it was "dead nuts reliable." And that comes with the Nick Rubenstein Long Term Durability Testing seal of approval. :D
:D Impressive indeed. '98-'00 wagons go for less obviously, but I've read enough to stay away from high-mileage models if I can help it. I rather go for '01+ cars. They have a few new things and the premium is not so high for potentially getting at least a bit of warranty.
Heck, it's the family hauler. As long as it's a good, roomy highway car with good brakes I'm happy ...and it is.
I think I may post my Saabaru for sale at work, word of mouth, etc and see how it goes.
Nick M3
12-04-2006, 07:53 AM
:D Impressive indeed. '98-'00 wagons go for less obviously, but I've read enough to stay away from high-mileage models if I can help it. I rather go for '01+ cars. They have a few new things and the premium is not so high for potentially getting at least a bit of warranty.
Heck, it's the family hauler. As long as it's a good, roomy highway car with good brakes I'm happy ...and it is.
I think I may post my Saabaru for sale at work, word of mouth, etc and see how it goes.
Oh, I agree. The cosmetic differences are subtle but significant, and the '99s didn't have an ESP Off button.
Why are you looking to get rid of your Subaru so early ? Isn't it a wagon model ?
From what I recall you have 1 dog and no children so I am wondering what the rush is to get a bigger car ...
Why are you looking to get rid of your Subaru so early ? Isn't it a wagon model ?
From what I recall you have 1 dog and no children so I am wondering what the rush is to get a bigger car ...
It's a hatch, so it's not very big. No, we don't need a bigger wagon now, but we will in a few months. I got the Saabaru when I commuted 80 miles a day. I now commute 7 miles a day in my new job. It was primarily a commuter/2nd car with mroe practicality than the 330i. It is a superb commuter.
Simply, our needs have changed. We also prefer a more refined car in the highway if we can afford it, and we can. So if we can sell the Saabaru and get what we prefer, then we will. But no, it's not urgent. I prefer to deal with selling/buying cars in a non-urgent way.
It's a hatch, so it's not very big. No, we don't need a bigger wagon now, but we will in a few months. I got the Saabaru when I commuted 80 miles a day. I now commute 7 miles a day in my new job. It was primarily a commuter/2nd car with mroe practicality than the 330i. It is a superb commuter.
Simply, our needs have changed. We also prefer a more refined car in the highway if we can afford it, and we can. So if we can sell the Saabaru and get what we prefer, then we will. But no, it's not urgent. I prefer to deal with selling/buying cars in a non-urgent way.
Eh? Is this a non-announcement announcement?
Eh? Is this a non-announcement announcement?
Unfortunately no.:( Hopefully soon. The dog is getting bigger though and by spring he will be large. The main need change really, is the fact that I no longer need to commute as much as I did. While it was just my wife and I, we might as well keep the car we already own, but now, with the dog, and the increasing desire to have a comfortable car for long road trips, we rather make a switch.
But I wont give it away. I am looking to sell it for a fair price.
rumatt
12-04-2006, 12:13 PM
Eh? Is this a non-announcement announcement?
That's what I was thinking too (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=118742&postcount=18).
That's what I was thinking too (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=118742&postcount=18).
Well my wife's waffling trumps mine.
richbrad
12-04-2006, 02:18 PM
Why would you trade in a relatively new and reliable car for an old one that is prone to repair and past it;s prime? The only reason to do this is for the presitge and snob appeal of a mercedes. Historically reliable or not, it is still an old car. It will smell old and the usuals will need replacing like hoses, bushings, etc. I think you are flawed in your thinking. You are better of will a newer car reagrdless of the marque.
As a good metaphor...
Take a good look at the latest pictures of Britney Spears crotch. She looked pretty good lately untill you opened the hood and looked at the engine. When she was younger and new...different story. Why buy into something that has already past it's day?
I went on a kick where I bought many exotics from the 1980's era when i grew up. Each one lasted about two months tops because I realized that the car looked better in a poster than it was to drive it by today's standards.
Save up for a newer wagon or keep rolling with a modern car.
Why would you trade in a relatively new and reliable car for an old one that is prone to repair and past it;s prime? The only reason to do this is for the presitge and snob appeal of a mercedes.
Um, ok then. I guess you answered your own question. I must be a snob.
:rolleyes:
richbrad
12-04-2006, 02:34 PM
you also could get rid of the dog....lol :lol:
Seriously Fernando ... the guy has a point ... why don't you re-read his post and reconsider your answer.
How about you BOTH re-read MY posts. Let me brake it down:
The car we have is not well suited for our needs. Keeping it for more than a few months is not an option. That's all you need to know about that.
About replacements, there is a car we like that can be had fo r~half as much as other alternatives. It may need more repair or maintenance, sure. But we'll live.
As far as a 2002 car being and smelling old... LOL. My 10-year-old Mercedes served me well for another 5 years after that.
How about you BOTH re-read MY posts.
Both?
Dude ... don't get so excited over a suggestion someone made and BTW brake is spelled incorrectly ... you need to spell check, it's on the upper right side over the smiles :D
Having driven the E320 4matic wagon for hundreds of miles I can tell you that the only advantage it had over a your Sabaru is it is a little bigger ... but knowing you only have a dog, I still see no reason for you to get the older e class over the your current ride unless you have the need to have a Mercedes.
You should really consider a Honda Pilot, it drives very car like ...
Who is excited?:?
But honestly, you are correcting ME over typos? LOL.
Anyhow, regardless of how I feel (and I disagree with you) I'm married and my wife's opinion counts more than mine for this purchase.
Now, if you can tell me with a straight face that an E320 is the same as an Impreza but only bigger, this discussion is over right now.:lol:
rumatt
12-04-2006, 03:18 PM
you need to spell check
Spell checker wouldn't have caught it. :twisted:
I would never consider a Benz out of warranty unless you make substantially over $75k a year :cool: :D
Damn, I guess I'll just have to get into credit card debt.
Damn, I guess I'll just have to get into credit card debt.
We are here to help you avoid that problem ... why do you think your getting such good financial advice ... these are pearls ... keep an open mind
We are here to help you avoid that problem ... why do you think your getting such good financial advice ... these are pearls ... keep an open mind
...you mean "you're" as in "you are," right?;)
...you mean "you're" as in "you are," right?;)
x act lee :thumbup:
richbrad
12-04-2006, 04:16 PM
!
lemming
12-04-2006, 07:20 PM
Fernando ... no offense to either you or richbrad but it looks like you both have the same type of cars unless his M3 is the older model you both have e46's and you both like Benz wagons
He says he has the R and that is a Benz wagon ... right ? ? and you want a benz wagon ...
Hmmm ... maybe this guy isn't as crazy as he sounds ...
Rich ... what's the deal ?? Your R is a wagon basically isn't it ? So whats the problem fc getting a simliar car ? ?
R350.
not the same as an e350.
E350 built in germany --r350 built in alabama off of new ML chassis.
FC,
I can't read the whole thread just now (at work in TK). However, didn't you advise me to go for sth like the 9-2x instead of the older 5er? I think what you're doing parallels mine. Believe me, if my gf did not have an impreza wagon already, I would have gotten a 9-2x. I could see that car being unpleasant with an automatic, but other than that it hardly has any downsides...
FC,
I can't read the whole thread just now (at work in TK). However, didn't you advise me to go for sth like the 9-2x instead of the older 5er? I think what you're doing parallels mine. Believe me, if my gf did not have an impreza wagon already, I would have gotten a 9-2x. I could see that car being unpleasant with an automatic, but other than that it hardly has any downsides...
If I were single, had a nice sports car and just wanted a car to spare my sportscar the nasty winter and add some utility, I would NEVER sell the 92X. It is perfect. It is just small, we have a (soon enough) large dog, and we don't really commute, so we rather have a comfier, more refined car for long trips and more room for dog+future family+stuff we buy for the house at Home Depot (and I'm always buying large stuff that barely fits on my 92X with the rear seats dropped).
So the 92X IS an awesome car, but not for everyone, and not all the time. I also tow trailers a couple of times a year and have a bike rack. The 92X struggles doing all these things.
FWIW, I did look at these very same wagons back in '05 before we bought the 92X. Back then, they were on average 10K more expensive. Somehow they have dropped a lot over the last 1.5 years. I see a lot more for sale - must be the 4-year threshold out of warranty thing. But we are going to put very few miles on it, so mileage does not concern me much.
R350.
not the same as an e350.
E350 built in germany --r350 built in alabama off of new ML chassis.
Yup. Big difference.
Yup. Big difference.
After driving both I would go for the R350 ... it has more of a driver's feel to it ... where the E is on the Staid/stuffy side and that was a friends E500 4 matic I drove.
If you have anything to say about it, I would go for the A6 avant or the 530xi wagon, both have much more of a driver's feel to them.
In Mercedes defense though the 2007 E class is supposed to have better steering and more of a drivers feel so before I say go with the BMW or Audi, you might want to test drive the new E
richbrad
12-05-2006, 11:53 AM
i was not singling out a particular car or marque. I was simply stating to go for a newer car of any marque rather than an older car. Older cars in general will be a pain in the neck if you need to rely on them every day. Durable or not, it will break more cuz it is old. Furthermore, on a benz, the repair costs will even out the cost of ownership with a new car. I have a friend that needed replace the tranny on his s320. After 3 flawless years of ownership a $4200.00 repair bill...adding 117 a month to the overall cost of his ownership. 3 flawless years is uncommon. You do the math.
I have nothing against the old wagons. Just that they are old.
ps...who cares where the cars are made...the germans can turn the same screw head the americans can...the parts usage is the same. granted the older cars are biult better...2001 is still the current build quality. my dad has a 2005 e class...replaced his 2001 e class...both were not of days old mercedes quality or reliability.
...both were not of days old mercedes quality.
Old Benz's aren't any better as to terms of quality, my father had some major engine problem back in the day with his 88 560SEC, if I remember correctly it was a $10,000 job but Mercedes kicked in 1/2.
lemming
12-05-2006, 01:33 PM
i was not singling out a particular car or marque. I was simply stating to go for a newer car of any marque rather than an older car. Older cars in general will be a pain in the neck if you need to rely on them every day. Durable or not, it will break more cuz it is old. Furthermore, on a benz, the repair costs will even out the cost of ownership with a new car. I have a friend that needed replace the tranny on his s320. After 3 flawless years of ownership a $4200.00 repair bill...adding 117 a month to the overall cost of his ownership. 3 flawless years is uncommon. You do the math.
I have nothing against the old wagons. Just that they are old.
ps...who cares where the cars are made...the germans can turn the same screw head the americans can...the parts usage is the same. granted the older cars are biult better...2001 is still the current build quality. my dad has a 2005 e class...replaced his 2001 e class...both were not of days old mercedes quality or reliability.
just pointing out the differences.
the demographic shopping the two vehicles is entirely different. :dunno:
richbrad
12-05-2006, 02:46 PM
and what exactly is the demographic of people that buy my wifes r350?
Careful....
clyde
12-05-2006, 03:02 PM
and what exactly is the demographic of people that buy my wifes r350?
Careful....
The only reason to do this is for the presitge and snob appeal of a mercedes.
:dunno:
richbrad
12-05-2006, 04:44 PM
THE R350 is 10 inches longer than an escalade and has an enourmous back seat and trunk with a high ceiling. Furthermore, it has a 5 star crash rating all around. It is 4 matic and has every possible creature comfort and rides like a car. It is the ultimate family hauler....that happens to be a mercedes. If it has a honda badge...i still would have bought it. That is the demographic as far as i am concerned. There really is not another vehicle like it (when i bought it 6 months ago). Furthermore, i stole it pricewise.
:irate:
i had looked into the wagon and the new ones are much smaller than the older ones. They also have an awkward ingress from the slope of the car (particularly the back seat) and were more expensive by a fair margin. I still wouldnt buy the old car....
lemming
12-05-2006, 04:58 PM
THE R350 is 10 inches longer than an escalade and has an enourmous back seat and trunk with a high ceiling. Furthermore, it has a 5 star crash rating all around. It is 4 matic and has every possible creature comfort and rides like a car. It is the ultimate family hauler....that happens to be a mercedes. If it has a honda badge...i still would have bought it. That is the demographic as far as i am concerned. There really is not another vehicle like it (when i bought it 6 months ago). Furthermore, i stole it pricewise.
:irate:
i had looked into the wagon and the new ones are much smaller than the older ones. They also have an awkward ingress from the slope of the car (particularly the back seat) and were more expensive by a fair margin. I still wouldnt buy the old car....
other than the obvious, which is as follows:
E350: car based / R350 ML based
E350: 4200lbs / R350 4829lbs
E350: 6.9sec to 60mph / R350 8.1seconds
E350/R350 basically same headroom for 1st and 2nd row.
in other words, if you're not in need of seating more than 6 people, the factors that would tend toward an R350 are its higher seating height, which some people prefer.
the thing is, me and a lot of people i know don't need 6 seats. and the times that i do are about 5 days out of the year, in which case we take 2 cars. i don't buy a car for the 5 days out of the year that i need the capability --which is why i don't own an SUV or awd for myself. i don't need that capability all year round.
so, if you're not in dire need of the additional 16 cubic inches of cargo space (the E with rears folded; the R with 2nd and 3rd folded), the only argument really for the R is that (1) it's an ML unidbody chassis and (2) it seats 6 people instead of 5.
i don't have to go deeply into MB demographics or psychological profiles to see the differences between the 2 vehicles and who they appeal to.
rumatt
12-05-2006, 04:58 PM
I am not against people owning this car, heck my father had one for a couple of years but you guys will jump on my a** for this saying this but the only people I've known who have owed that particular car have mucho dinero ...
Hey, your dad's name doesn't happen to be Brad, does it? :lol:
I did an MB drive event a while back (June 05?). It was the new ML intro. Drove it in 350/500 form. Also drove E350/E500/C230sport. Road course (short & <60mph) in all cars. Also some clearance, side ramp, articulation stuff for the ML's. I've also done a decent SLK350 test drive as part of my shopping.
1. The cheapest one, C230, was my favorite on the course. Kind of an unfussy 3-series. Don't care for the engine but the handling was there.
2. The 350 is a nice engine (don't know in a car as big as the R). Perfect power for the E, positively fast in the SLK. Both in E & ML, the 500 felt dated (bias?) torquey but out of breath for the coin. 350 seemed close enough and miles ahead of 320.
3. The non-sport E sucked, no other way to put it. What a boat.
4. The ML impressed me favorably. Nice ride, handling, feel. This and the CX7 (there's an idea for you FC) are my favorite SUVs. Only complaint in ML was the artificial brake pedal which you can probably get used to. The E seemed to have nothing over the ML.
Hey, your dad's name doesn't happen to be Brad, does it? :lol:
No his name is Rich but brad is his middle name ;) ;) (just kidding richbrad) :D
lemming
12-05-2006, 08:06 PM
The E seemed to have nothing over the ML.
other than acceleration, handling, braking, cargo capacity and build quality --and those are just the tangibles.
;)
(and the ML serves yet another demographic that is distinct from the R which both are distinct from the 4matic wagon)
Disagree. The E350 sedan is a very unimpressive boaty POS for a sedan. Have you driven the E350 & the ML350 back to back?
(BTW, the old ML is pure junk so if that's where your observation is coming from, it's irrelevant.)
other than acceleration, handling, braking, cargo capacity and build quality --and those are just the tangibles.
;)
(and the ML serves yet another demographic that is distinct from the R which both are distinct from the 4matic wagon)
lemming
12-05-2006, 08:30 PM
Disagree. The E350 sedan is a very unimpressive boaty POS for a sedan. Have you driven the E350 & the ML350 back to back?
(BTW, the old ML is pure junk so if that's where your observation is coming from, it's irrelevant.)
nope. only the new E350. i like it.
i haven't any interest in something with a high center of gravity that is slower, brakes less well, gets worse mileage and is constructed to a lower build quality. :dunno:
other than the obvious, which is that the ML and R are built in america, why do you think there is nearly a $13,000 base price difference between the ML/R350s and the E350 4matic wagon?
once again, it's because they cater to different segments of the population.
other than the obvious, which is that the ML and R are built in america, why do you think there is nearly a $13,000 base price difference between the ML/R350s and the E350 4matic wagon?
once again, it's because they cater to different segments of the population.
Sounds like the arguments in the 6er forum. If it's expensive, it must be better...
lemming
12-05-2006, 08:41 PM
Sounds like the arguments in the 6er forum. If it's expensive, it must be better...
no, actually.
this has a basis in reality. the E is the franchise for MB. it's the car that represents some of their best engineering.
the ML and R are built in America to keep costs down and they're built to meet a pricing point. one cannot say that about the E class, which is why it's so damn expensive.
the 6er is expensive artificially because BMW pumped up the price to account for lower production numbers. but we all know that it shares almost everything mechanically with the E60.
nice try, though.
rumatt
12-05-2006, 08:44 PM
nice try, though.
It was pretty much what you argued. :dunno:
Whether it's artificially inflated or not is a separate debate.
I drove both and you didn't. Just this fact makes your opinion uninformed compared to mine.
The E handled so bad, I remember looking down at its tires after, they were worn but not gone. Mich energy or some bs, I did not check pressures. So either the E is crap or MB marketers let air out of the E tires to make the ML look good. :?
lemming
12-05-2006, 08:50 PM
It was pretty much what you argued. :dunno:
Whether it's artificially inflated or not is a separate debate.
no.
actually, what i was pointing out was that there are plenty of tangible reasons why the E350 4matic is preferable for people. whether it be dynamics (superior), build quality inside and out (superior) it's easily justified. the $13,000 pays for all of the differences inside and out in addition to origin of build country.
the E is one of the few MB's that costs close to market value because of its complexity, german manufacturing and quality of materials.
now, the side argument is why there are such divisive differences between people who would buy a 4matic wagon (seems to be me and FC) versus the ML or R class. this is where you might have an argument. based on tangibles, short of the pure pricing difference, there is no credible argument to buy the ML350 over the 4matic. they have the same cargo space with seats folded down (actually 75cubic ft versus 69.5cubic ft), yet one has a higher center of gravity, weighs more, is slower, brakes less well, transitions in the slalom far worse and gets worse fuel economy. oh wait, you sold me just now on the ML350 all over again.
lemming
12-05-2006, 08:57 PM
I drove both and you didn't. Just this fact makes your opinion uninformed compared to mine.
The E handled so bad, I remember looking down at its tires after, they were worn but not gone. Mich energy or some bs, I did not check pressures. So either the E is crap or MB marketers let air out of the E tires to make the ML look good. :?
is it odd to pay more for the hardtop when you could get the Boxster S with the same engine for 'less' money. do you see who looks odd here in this argument about "6er logic"? ;)
i'm merely here to cast light on how i interpret FC's thinking. i've met him and personally, i never see him in an ML or R class; and the same could be said for me. i'd rather go CPO 4matic wagon or even new 4matic wagon both because of tangible build quality as well as the tangibles aforementioned.
your complaint that because i haven't driven the E350 back to back with the new ML350 is quite valid. but i brush it aside because my reference SUV is the FX35, which handily outdoes anything dynamically that the ML does. and i didn't personally find the E350's handling all that wanting. did we expect different things from the car, mayhap? i commute to work in a car that could probably hang with the Cayman S on 95% of roads in North America --different reference points, huh?
no.
actually, what i was pointing out was that there are plenty of tangible reasons why the E350 4matic is preferable for people. whether it be dynamics (superior), build quality inside and out (superior) it's easily justified. the $13,000 pays for all of the differences inside and out in addition to origin of build country.
the E is one of the few MB's that costs close to market value because of its complexity, german manufacturing and quality of materials.
Lemming, I like to side with you but in this argument, you really aren't on target. It is pretty well known that Mercedes in general have been cheapening up ... this is to the point where Mercedes actually has admitted this an has committed to work harder. It is not limited to American built vehicles but all Mercedes no matter the origin.
I think you should really drive the R350 before making any judgement on it. I think it is kinda not so good looking but the way it feels and drives I can definitely say it is a solid great driving vehicle.
My understanding is the 07 E class has had a lot of work done to make it 'feel' better.
The big picture IMO is the R is the better driver compared to pre 2007 e class, I would have to drive the 07 before I could comment on it.
lemming
12-05-2006, 09:16 PM
Lemming, I like to side with you but in this argument, you really aren't on target. It is pretty well known that Mercedes in general have been cheapening up ... this is to the point where Mercedes actually has admitted this an has committed to work harder. It is not limited to American built vehicles but all Mercedes no matter the origin.
I think you should really drive the R350 before making any judgement on it. I think it is kinda not so good looking but the way it feels and drives I can definitely say it is a solid great driving vehicle.
My understanding is the 07 E class has had a lot of work done to make it 'feel' better.
The big picture IMO is the R is the better driver compared to pre 2007 e class, I would have to drive the 07 before I could comment on it.
AF: i dunno how to re-write this, but let me try.
the R is built on the ML chassis. 4800 pounds. the E is a car chassis. 4200 pounds. same engines. probably same brakes. likely differences are in the tire compounds. but i can tell you that i just sat in both the ML, the R, the SL and the E class at the boston autoshow. i really liked the E interior. and i think it handles plenty well for what it is.
just about the same cargo space.
remind me again, why i would drive a heavier "vehicle" that is built to a lower OEM cost point?
the argument, as you mention it, is muddled. it's not "quality" per se that is the issue with the E or S classes --it's electronic glitches. quality, perceived and real, have plagued the american built MBs IN ADDITION to the JD Power type issues.
It indeed would be odd, if it had happened. I wasn't even looking at the CayS as I thought it to be overpriced compared to its 'vert brother (sister?). When I saw I could get an 06 CayS for 07 BoxS money, it sealed the deal for me. I like hardtops much, much better and for the same price will take a hardtop. As great as the boxster is, it's also been out for ten years in the same basic shape so I'd even pay a little extra for a new, attractive body style (even though I ended up not having to).
Well you're brushing aside sth you haven't driven. No comment.
I drove a 330zhp coupe at the time I tested the Mercs. Sure a tight course is not the E's strength, but it looked REALLY bad after a C that was half the price. It's a boring commuter car that is also very luxurious. Both the base e60 530 and the base CTS that I drove at a similar Car&Driver event were miles better to drive. (Same year but not same day) BTW, the base CTS gave the e60 a run for its money, I can only imagine how good the V is. So I don't know what your barb on my poor little CayS is about.
I happen to find the 540sport boaty as well. The 528/530sport & CTS are as much as I can tolerate...
is it odd to pay more for the hardtop when you could get the Boxster S with the same engine for 'less' money. do you see who looks odd here in this argument about "6er logic"? ;)
i'm merely here to cast light on how i interpret FC's thinking. i've met him and personally, i never see him in an ML or R class; and the same could be said for me. i'd rather go CPO 4matic wagon or even new 4matic wagon both because of tangible build quality as well as the tangibles aforementioned.
your complaint that because i haven't driven the E350 back to back with the new ML350 is quite valid. but i brush it aside because my reference SUV is the FX35, which handily outdoes anything dynamically that the ML does. and i didn't personally find the E350's handling all that wanting. did we expect different things from the car, mayhap? i commute to work in a car that could probably hang with the Cayman S on 95% of roads in North America --different reference points, huh?
lemming
12-05-2006, 09:34 PM
so....if you read Road and Track, look at the November 2006 issue. it's one of their rare forays into comparing SUVs.
that's my point. read the words. compare the numbers. then, when you compare the E350's numbers to those of the ML500, the E still out-slaloms (mph) and pulls more g's --that's giving you close to a 100hp advantage and both reach 60mph in the same time, 6.3 seconds, as data are accumulated by R&T.
i've already told you that you had a point --but i drove the FX to the MB dealer. it weakens your argument given that the FX is superior to the ML dynamically. reading can be hard for finance people because all they see are numbers.
;-P
There a a lot of points to comment on.
I've driven the ML350. I agree with equ it is a great SUV. The best I've driven, actually. IMO, far better than the CX7 (though that is a great SUV for the money). I just don't like SUV's and my wife shares this sentiment. I dislike the size, the elevated driving position, the extra bulk, etc. Still, I WOULD consider an ML, but they are still pricey, not very reliable (noticeably worse than the E by most accounts), and just doesn't offer much that an E doesn't other than ground clearance.
I love the '07 E350, and would like to have one but they cost $60K. It would be less than smart to spend that kind of cash on the family wagon now.
Current-gen E-wagons ('04+) prior to the '07 facelift suffer from the artificial DBW brakes, are plagued by reliability issues (these are exacerbated by colossal reliability issues with goofy options that interfere with the car like keyless go, Nav, and the first few 7-speed trannies), and the engines are either too weak for the money (old 3.2L), or too expensive to buy and maintain (5.0L V8).
I'd still get an '06 E350 (first year of the E350) despite the DBW brakes, but they are still way too expensive.
The R is not worth considering. I don't fit the niche market it goes after, it's as unreliable as the SUV's, and my wife hates the styling.
The reason we like the '01-'03 E320 wagons is that it offers things no othe rwagon offers in one package:
-Std 7-seating
-Largest cargo of any recent wagon, period. And that style has a Volvo-esque squared off rear gate that is big dog-friendly.
-RWD-biased AWD.
-Comfort, safety, and features galore.
-Affordable price
-Being a used car, it allows us to "not care" as much about it cosmetically.
It also lacks some features (such as a long warranty, a powerful engine, world-class brakes, and superb handling), but we're willing to pass on those for the price, etc.
Let me just add that this wagon is not "my car." I wont commute in it. I don't need to have fun in it. And most importantly, I'm not the only one making this decision. I think a lot of people here tend to forget that.
It won't change a thing, but just for kicks I'd like to hear (using facts) how an Subaru better suits our needs, or is as good a car. That should be fun.
Should this E320 wagon purchase happen and something were to go wrong, we'll handle it.;) I'm willing to do a fair bit of car work myself as I have in the past, and what is not convenient or practical to do, we'll pay for. That's that.
The only new wagon that comes close to offering what we want is a V70R. It will be a lot cheaper to buy an extended warranty for big-ticket repairs than to fork over an extra 20K for the V70R.
lemming
12-05-2006, 09:56 PM
It won't change a thing, but just for kicks I'd like to hear (using facts) how an Subaru better suits our needs, or is as good a car. That should be fun.
okay. fine. back me up and then present a new twist (subie).
:toetap:
i wish someone would explore that, too. because my left brain says outback XT but my right brain screams e350 4matic wagon.
It won't change a thing, but just for kicks I'd like to hear (using facts) how an Subaru better suits our needs, or is as good a car. That should be fun.
Listen fc, you've been obsessed with the E class since you started posting on the fest and now your obviously in the position to buy one.
That's cool ... the only thing that is bothering me is the need to justify getting rid of the Subaru ... in other words, you want the E class, you've always wanted it and now your going to get it. It could be the 3 pointed star you want, it could be the solid large safe feel of the drive or 5 other reasons ...
That's awesome ... just don't bs yourself that the subie doesn't fit your needs.
I used to justifiy why I got rid of my cars until I finally got real and said ... screw it I am a car nut and I want something different ...
I used to justifiy why I got rid of my cars until I finally got real and said ... screw it I am a car nut and I want something different ...
+1
okay. fine. back me up and then present a new twist (subie).
:toetap:
i wish someone would explore that, too. because my left brain says outback XT but my right brain screams e350 4matic wagon.
LOL.
Well, I'll tell you why I'd easily have an E350 over an XT:
-Room (in all possible dimensions)
-brakes
-3.5L vs. 2.5L
-7 seats
-the little things (all windows one-touch up/down, quarter turn gas cap, sound insulation, power headrests, real doors, etc, etc)
-better high-speed highway cruising
-lightyears ahead 7-speed slushie vs mediocre subie slushie
-power steering wheel adjustments with memory
-3-pos mem on both seats
-Availability of options like Xenons, keyless go, etc
I'm sure there is much more, including intangibles like feel, etc, but that is just what I remember of the top of my head.
rumatt
12-05-2006, 10:38 PM
just for kicks I'd like to hear (using facts) how an Subaru better suits our needs, or is as good a car.
If this car is such a POS that doesn't meet your needs, how on earth did it get into the coveted 10-year plan?
If this car is such a POS that doesn't meet your needs, how on earth did it get into the coveted 10-year plan?
I unexpectedly switched jobs. It was always supposed to be a 2-year car all along - an efficient commuter car to get me through shitty winters and avoid putting 30K+ miles a year on my relatively new 330i. I also needed more versatility than the 330i offers. I could have bought a larger, more practical car, but I would still commute a lot on this car, so I wanted it to be somewhat fun. So it was pretty close to perfect at the time.
Needs change. I no longer commute in it enough to care about fun or operating expenses, the new job also allowed us to get a dog, which will outgrow the car.
It is an awesome commuting car. If I still had my old job, I'd likely keep it as a 3rd car.
...and BTW, it's a 5-year plan and there is 2.5 years left on it.
lemming
12-05-2006, 11:08 PM
If this car is such a POS that doesn't meet your needs, how on earth did it get into the coveted 10-year plan?
actually, part of it was that at some point, FC needed to have at least one reliable car in the mix.
:bustingup
richbrad
12-06-2006, 10:59 AM
ok..i am going to combine several posts into one with my replies.
Having owned the older ml350 beofre my wife's r, I agree that it is a POS.
Having driven my father's 2001 e 4matic and 2005 e350 I can tell you that it is more cheaply built that previous ones. It is a great car if you are an old man and want to be bored every day. It is a slushy boat. Putting a sport package on it is like polishing a turd.
I wouldn;t like to drive my wife's r350 every day. Heck, I dont even like driving it more than once a week. It is a great car to be a passenger in, though. But, I usually don;t drive it. I simply like to have fun whilst driving so i bought an m3. However, it is supurbly comfortable and my kids love it. They look up at the sky through the panoramic roof, sit in captains chairs with extreme head and legroom. I feel my family is safe in it. The power hatch makes shopping a breeze for my wife. It drives like a mercedes car. The navigation gets us where we need to on trips. The car has everything she could want from a minivan, wagon-like, hybrid mish mash car thing that it is. What she likes about it is exactly the same as what i dont like about it.
It is not a cheap version of anything. Mine had a window sticker of 62,000 putting it sqarely in ewagon territory.
On a side note, there seem to be alot of angry and provoking people on this board. The starter of this post is a bit hostile as are some others. Some also seem paranoid that i am the alter ego of AF or his dad? I am a 38 year old male...I am going to assume that it would be difficult to be af's dad, son or whatever...
If you are going to attack or get mad because i stated that an 01 or previous wagon is a poser car for those that cannot or are to cheap to buy a new one...so be it. I will laugh when you post about the thousands you spent to avoid paying more up front for today's car.
PS... my r class is better than your e class. It is 13 letters down the alphabet from it. It is just one letter less than the s class. Your e class is just 2 letters away from being a c class. :irate: :irate: :irate:
Get rid of the subeeboo and get your old mercedes instead. It seem to fit your demographic.
PS... my r class is better than your e class. It is 13 letters down the alphabet from it. It is just one letter less than the s class. Your e class is just 2 letters away from being a c class. :irate: :irate: :irate:
Get rid of the subeeboo and get your old mercedes instead. It seem to fit your demographic.
Dad ... you can admit it I know it's you ;) :D
Rich, seriously though that is the funniest thing I have read in a long time ... :thumbup: :lol: :lol:
Needs change. I no longer commute in it enough to care about fun or operating expenses, the new job also allowed us to get a dog, which will outgrow the car.
Actually this is the funniest thing I have read in a long time as well :lol: :lol:
A new job allowed you to get a dog and now the dog is going to be too big for your car :groupjump
Is your dog named Clifford by any chance and is he red ? :D
Actually this is the funniest thing I have read in a long time as well :lol: :lol:
A new job allowed you to get a dog and now the dog is going to be too big for your car :groupjump
Is your dog named Clifford by any chance and is he red ? :D
Are you naturally this annoying, or are you trying extra hard?
My commute was 2+ hours a day. I left home at 7am and got back after 6pm. We did not want to get a dog to abandon him for at least 11 hours a day.
Now my job is 5 minutes from home. I leave home at 7am and I'm back around 4:30pm AND I also get to go home everyday for lunch and walk my dog. So yes, my new job allows us to have a dog that we would have had to wait many years to have otherwise (until kids could take care of it).
Dog or no dog, this car was never meant to be a long-term family car. It was a versatile commuter. It is no longer needed as a commuter. I could have dumped it the moment I got my new job in the spring, but since it was just the two of us, we decided it was worth keeping until out situation forced us to change it. Well, the dog is getting bigger, we hope for a family in the future, and finally, the compromises made (loud, unrefined, small, not as safe, etc) in an effort to make it an economical commuter are bothering us now that we no longer need it as a commuter.
Hence the need for a different car. If you read any recent threads, you'll see we were going to buy a new V70R. I didn't expect my wife to like the older E-wagons. I already explained why '04-'06 E-wagons are not being considered. We may still buy a V70R. I have to carefully weigh the cost/benefit analysis. The '07 E350 is simply too expensive for what we'll use it for right now.
FC ... I think I found a picture of your dog ... is this him :D :lol: ?
You gotta admit this is funny ... :yes:
http://qpbs.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pG01-1147916dt.jpg
richbrad
12-06-2006, 12:21 PM
one question..did you buy the big red dog for the snob appeal of having a famous dog?
lemming
12-06-2006, 12:24 PM
one question..did you buy the big red dog for the snob appeal of having a famous dog?
you and AF can aim those barbs at me, since i do and did most of the insinuating.
then the fun can really begin, if you like. ;)
rumatt
12-06-2006, 12:24 PM
or his dad? I am a 38 year old male...I am going to assume that it would be difficult to be af's dad, son or whatever...
It was a joke dude. I thought it was remotely funny anyway. :dunno:
On a side note, there seem to be alot of angry and provoking people on this board.
You first two posts here (and most of the rest of them) were, um, aggressive and provocative. That's perfectly fine with me, whether you're being yourself, or even if you're just role playing on the interweb.
But don't later act surprised when you find you've ruffled some feathers, and some people don't like you. Gimme a break. No innocent victim routine, please.
lemming
12-06-2006, 12:40 PM
ok..i am going to combine several posts into one with my replies.
Having owned the older ml350 beofre my wife's r, I agree that it is a POS.
Having driven my father's 2001 e 4matic and 2005 e350 I can tell you that it is more cheaply built that previous ones. It is a great car if you are an old man and want to be bored every day. It is a slushy boat. Putting a sport package on it is like polishing a turd.
I wouldn;t like to drive my wife's r350 every day. Heck, I dont even like driving it more than once a week. It is a great car to be a passenger in, though. But, I usually don;t drive it. I simply like to have fun whilst driving so i bought an m3. However, it is supurbly comfortable and my kids love it. They look up at the sky through the panoramic roof, sit in captains chairs with extreme head and legroom. I feel my family is safe in it. The power hatch makes shopping a breeze for my wife. It drives like a mercedes car. The navigation gets us where we need to on trips. The car has everything she could want from a minivan, wagon-like, hybrid mish mash car thing that it is. What she likes about it is exactly the same as what i dont like about it.
It is not a cheap version of anything. Mine had a window sticker of 62,000 putting it sqarely in ewagon territory.
On a side note, there seem to be alot of angry and provoking people on this board. The starter of this post is a bit hostile as are some others. Some also seem paranoid that i am the alter ego of AF or his dad? I am a 38 year old male...I am going to assume that it would be difficult to be af's dad, son or whatever...
If you are going to attack or get mad because i stated that an 01 or previous wagon is a poser car for those that cannot or are to cheap to buy a new one...so be it. I will laugh when you post about the thousands you spent to avoid paying more up front for today's car.
PS... my r class is better than your e class. It is 13 letters down the alphabet from it. It is just one letter less than the s class. Your e class is just 2 letters away from being a c class. :irate: :irate: :irate:
Get rid of the subeeboo and get your old mercedes instead. It seem to fit your demographic.
this is what i was alluding to previously.
if the Mercedes Benz targeting of their demographics did not bother you so much, why make such great pains to point out how much your R class sticker was?
it's still not anything a lot of people here, who prefer cars, would be interested in and no one was asking you to validate your purchase. i was pointint out the obvious when i recognized for some people who missed it that the R350 is different than the E350 or ML350. similarly, no one can dispute that the three are in production because they serve very different targets in their demographic.
you simply cannot dispute the hard data. one is a car and one is truck-based. furthermore, you simply cannot dispute that the base price on the ML or R is $43k and the base price of the E wagen is $55k. there are plenty of reasons why there is such a pricing delta and we explored that.
no one except me insinuated/recognized the white elephant in the room, that there are indeed different MB buyers who choose among the three vehicles. further, we also dispelled with the notion that this is the "6er syndrome" all over again because whereas the 6er is mechanically identical to the 5er but costs about 10k more --the E is not only on a different chassis but is built in a different country.
good lord. i hope you're not sensitive about your M3, because that will bring some people out of the woodwork, too, to comment on that.
richbrad
12-06-2006, 12:49 PM
i can take a punch. don;t worry about me. and i am an agressive type personality...sarcastic too. Dont; mess with me if I am hurting your feelings. Perhaps you can find someone that talks nicer to you and candy coats his posts. i speak the truth and bluntly.
If you need esclalate it or can;t handle it...kick the big red dog.
AF seems to have a simmilar sense of humor. BUt if he doesn;t he can feel the wrath of richbrad too..
:irate: :irate: :irate: :irate:
Dont be a hater....
you and AF can aim those barbs at me, since i do and did most of the insinuating.
then the fun can really begin, if you like. ;)
Lemming ... what barbs are you talking about ? Are you getting rid of a car because you have a big dog also ?
i can take a punch. don;t worry about me. and i am an agressive type personality...sarcastic too. Dont; mess with me if I am hurting your feelings. Perhaps you can find someone that talks nicer to you and candy coats his posts. i speak the truth and bluntly.
If you need esclalate it or can;t handle it...kick the big red dog.
AF seems to have a simmilar sense of humor. BUt if he doesn;t he can feel the wrath of richbrad too..
:irate: :irate: :irate: :irate:
Dont be a hater....
Um, you were the first one to bring up percevied hostility (by me LOL ...if you only knew me). I was thinking you were the sensitive one since you seem to be getting defensive. I have explained all my posts and my rationale. You're welcome to try and find any holes in my logic using facts. Of course that wil be difficult since you barely know me or hardly anything about me.
Which brings me to my next point. Your abrasive way to introduce yourself to this tightly-knit community surely won't earn you many friends, IMO. This is also the reason why your posts are annoying (at least to me). The information posted here is generally based on the assumption that people here remember or are aware of a miriad of smaller factors and history that has been presented over the years. All you and AF have done by insinuating I am a snob, or my logic is flawed, or whatever, is force me to re-type the whole history of why my Saab was purhased etc. Had you known this, as many people here do without me having to re-tell it, you would not have had to ask what you asked. But again, not only do you assume incorrectly, but you are confrontational and arrogant in the process.
That's my $0.02. I'll now proceed to put you on my ignore list. Something I've never done in this community.
Lemming ... what barbs are you talking about ? Are you getting rid of a car because you have a big dog also ?
LOL ...I'll let him answer that.
richbrad
12-06-2006, 01:10 PM
please ignore me too... this is silly...you are silly
and af please dont talk to me either...
if you ignore af and i ignore you...can you still talk to me?
LOL ...I'll let him answer that.
You have a really weird sense of humor :eeps: ... I think my joke about the big red dog was much funnier then my post to lemming about the barbs
richbrad
12-06-2006, 01:32 PM
i dont want to interfere with your tight knit and fragile community. You seem to take offense easily and can;t take a punch. I love old E class wagons. They are the most durable, reliable and sensible purchase anyone could ever make. They cost little money, are for people that are down to earth and have no snob appeal whatsoever, have enough cargo room to hold two elephants, and are the obvious choice for anyone in any category to drive. They corner on rails, out accelerate almost anything and the parts are cheap. I am going to trade all my cars in and buy several. In fact, they are going to all be the same color and year. No need for a warranty. I am going to tint my windows very dark in case so if someone pulls up in a r350...they wont see me laughing at their american made mercedes. FC is perhaps the smartest and most logical person i have ever spoken to. I stand corrected on all my posts and take them all back. I was completely wrong and off base on everything i have said previous to this post and hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me. I do not mean to be annoying and will work very hard to make myself more acceptable to the population in general. I have always wanted to be part of a tight knit community and do not wish to blow my chance after fnially finding such a special place. Thank you FC for being a part of my life that was until this moment more dull than driving an old e class wagon. how is that for sarcastic and annoying. please ignore me. see ya on the side of the road. i will pass you by, but af will prob stop to help you...right son?
PS..you might want to put your $.02 cents toward your repair bills instead of giving it to me...
pps...what is waffling? Whole wheat waffling?
rumatt
12-06-2006, 01:51 PM
:lol:
You are twisted.................. but funny. :celebrat:
richbrad
12-06-2006, 02:00 PM
thanks...hopefully the lightness of the post is taken in context. Somehow, i think it won;t be. And yes...I know i am twisted.
:ack:
:lol:
You are twisted.................. but funny. :celebrat:
Holy sh*t that was funny ... I am literally laughing my ass off ... don't tell rich but the annoying comment was made to me not him :eeps: ;)
lemming
12-06-2006, 02:18 PM
Lemming ... what barbs are you talking about ? Are you getting rid of a car because you have a big dog also ?
already do.
:D
but i probably would opt for the 4matic wagon because if you've ever driven a fully laden vehicle with large dogs moving about, you know that center of gravity (high) exacerbates vehicle dynamics.
you try telling the dogs to stay still, but generally, they don't listen.
already do.
:D
but i probably would opt for the 4matic wagon because if you've ever driven a fully laden vehicle with large dogs moving about, you know that center of gravity (high) exacerbates vehicle dynamics.
you try telling the dogs to stay still, but generally, they don't listen.
Try the shock collar, I've got one on my dog and if he's learned it's better to listen then to move :eeps:
On a serious note though, I've had Wagons (my Audi Allroad) and I liked driving it better then my wife's Volvo SUV so I can totally relate to your preference.
I think the following thread is pretty funny and how things haven't changed in over 3 yrs ... you gotta love persistency (FC - spell check that word for me ;) )
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2055871#post2055871
lemming
12-06-2006, 02:36 PM
Try the shock collar, I've got one on my dog and if he's learned it's better to listen then to move :eeps:
On a serious note though, I've had Wagons (my Audi Allroad) and I liked driving it better then my wife's Volvo SUV so I can totally relate to your preference.
lower center of gravity, as you know, scales proportionately with prestige, actually.
Try the shock collar, I've got one on my dog and if he's learned it's better to listen then to move :eeps:
Those things are cruel.
Pretty funny when Sal and Richard played "Shock the Balls" with Bubba, though. :lol:
rumatt
12-06-2006, 02:47 PM
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=2055871#post2055871
Informative thread. :speechle:
Monozygotic twins, identical because they come from the same egg, have a pretty constant rate of about 4/1000 live births.
If a woman has regular periods, it's likely that she ovulates monthly. There are simple tests that can determine if a woman ovulates or not. You can even buy "ovulation predictor kits" which measure excretion of hormone (in urine) that peaks just prior to ovulation.
Couples who attempt conception on their own for 12 months have about a 95% chance of conceiving. Those that don't should seek an appt. with a doc for some basic tests (such as ruling out blocked tubes, hormonal imbalances, and male-factor infertility)
richbrad
12-06-2006, 02:52 PM
What are the chances that someone with an 01 e class would have identical twins after the age of 35? I need to know as twins will require a bigger car like the r350....:lol: :lol:
Those things are cruel.
Pretty funny when Sal and Richard played "Shock the Balls" with Bubba, though. :lol:
LOL ... glad to hear I'm not the only one who watches Howard tv ... the show was so funny ... much better then shock the puss
John V
12-06-2006, 03:23 PM
Watching the conversation about which 4,000lb+ Mercedes is more of a (snicker) driver's car is positively hilarious. Keep it up. The E-class has the upper hand in my book because unlike the R-class, I can look at one without vomiting.
AF, the Clifford joke was not funny. Get over it. :D
please ignore me too... this is silly...you are silly
and af please dont talk to me either...
if you ignore af and i ignore you...can you still talk to me?
let me guess--insurance salesman?
richbrad
12-06-2006, 04:02 PM
i dont quite get the last comment. Anyway, cruel or not...my friend used the shock collar and it worked wonders. The alternative was to give up the dog...in which case they would have euthenized it....far crueler. So the shock collars save lives. Also, the dog is like a different dog and no longer runs out into the street where it can get hit by a ewagon
[quote=John V;125492]The E-class has the upper hand in my book because unlike the R-class, I can look at one without vomiting.
acid reflux :dunno: ;)
AF, the Clifford joke was not funny. Get over it.
that's because you don't have kids or you would be laughing your a** off :D... pretend Clifford is britney's vag and she isn't allowed to sit in fc's subaru because like in her famous pics, she can only sit in Benz's when she is exposed :eeps:
Here is a link for your reference
http://www.wwtdd.com/post.phtml?pk=1616
the clifford joke wasn't funny
richbrad
12-06-2006, 04:10 PM
if i had a mclaren slr i woudnt want her messin up my seats...paris should put the seat on ebay. she would get a fortune of it.
ps...i have kids and i thought the clifford joke was pretty darn funny
the clifford joke wasn't funny
Ok for you I will give a special translation ... bono makes a stinky in his pants and then you walk behind him and as it drips out, you step in it ... now do you get it ?
clyde
12-06-2006, 04:21 PM
I have kids too. Didn't think it was funny.
clyde
12-06-2006, 04:22 PM
the explanations are making it even further away from funny now
richbrad
12-06-2006, 04:23 PM
do you mean that bonos doodie is worth something on ebay? I think it would be worth less than the mclaren seat from paris's car. I am not following you. richbrad's doodie shoe is not worth much
This thread is getting dumber than snow.
clyde
12-06-2006, 04:30 PM
This thread is getting dumber than snow.
:toetap:
This thread is getting dumber than snow.
LMAO
...I'm sure AF and richbrad don't think that is funny, but we all know it is.;)
richbrad
12-06-2006, 04:39 PM
i dont think i am smart enough to understand this joke? seriously, i don;t get it.
dumb snow?
:dunno:
Mr. The Edge
12-06-2006, 04:52 PM
I am lost.
i dont think i am smart enough to understand this joke? seriously, i don;t get it.
dumb snow?
:dunno:
this will help you understand ...
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=3644&highlight=dumb+snow
I am lost.
:+1
But PLEASE do not bother explaining it to me. Ignorance can be bliss.
I have kids too. Didn't think it was funny.
I will try to explain it AGAIN ... picture the RX8 smells bad, so you go to the car wash but they refuse to wash it because it has a yellow front ... now do you get it ?
richbrad
12-06-2006, 05:06 PM
af... are you speaking english?
af... are you speaking english?
no comprende
(dude that sig is so freakin funny :lol: )
I am lost.
Let me sum it up, FC wants an e class benz but needs to justify the reason to get rid of a 2 yr old car so he is blaming his puppy stating he is outgrowing his subaru wagon. Those who know FC in person( who has always seemed like a nice guy to me) are defending his choice to get an E class Wagon as that is the only car made in this world to fit his ever growing needs while those that don't know him as well are saying it is a move to be made only due to the snob appeal of a Benz since it isn't a great driver.
Meanwhile, I think we all know the E class wagon is an amazing vehicle that only very few people in this world will get to own ... so in the end we are all just having a little fun busting on the reasons why and why not to get one ...
In the end ... FC enjoy the new car when you get it ... it's a great car !!
:lol: Well put, AF. Lem & I had a skirmish over 14 timezones on this.
FWIW, it looks more like we'll end up getting a new V70R (as was our plan for the last several months). I'm sure we'll waffle a bit more though.:rolleyes:
:lol: Well put, AF. Lem & I had a skirmish over 14 timezones on this.
At least someone here thinks I'm funny :D
John V
12-07-2006, 06:52 AM
I will try to explain it AGAIN ... picture the RX8 smells bad, so you go to the car wash but they refuse to wash it because it has a yellow front ... now do you get it ?
Have you been drinking... heavily? :dunno:
richbrad
12-07-2006, 09:46 AM
because you have reconsidered the mercedes wagon thingy...i have changed my signature in your honor....much better choice. a very nice car for women....lol...just kidding . Make sure king clifford fits in the back first.
I hope you enjoy your wanna be ewagon...
John V
12-07-2006, 09:55 AM
a very nice car for women....
... says the guy who owns an overweight, hideously ugly $60,000 minivan. :lol:
richbrad
12-07-2006, 10:09 AM
john...the r350 is my wife's....she is female...just so you know
Sharp11
12-07-2006, 10:13 AM
Any thoughts welcome, and sorry for the long post.
After having waded through this entire thread - including the parts I didn't understand - my advice is to not over-intellectualize the whole thing (says the guy who over thinks everything).
Look for the E class you want, but be patient, cars come up for sale frequently and a two or three times-a-day autotrader check may be necessary (that's how I found my last two 'deals').
When the car you want comes up, jump on it!
Ed
John V
12-07-2006, 10:18 AM
john...the r350 is my wife's....she is female...just so you know
Oh, okay, that explains it.
Does she have one of those little magnetic soccer ball decals on the back?
richbrad
12-07-2006, 10:20 AM
no she has a i hate people that drive yellow cars stickers on the back....
Sharp11
12-07-2006, 10:21 AM
Oh, okay, that explains it.
Does she have one of those little magnetic soccer ball decals on the back?
These things have great lease deals, I assume that's why, around here, they've become as ubiquitous as britney/paris sightings.
Ed
richbrad
12-07-2006, 10:23 AM
anything that makes the wife happy is ok in my book. i dont like pocket books either...should i give her advice as to what is nice? JOhn would pick a yellow one...and fc would pick an old worn out one...what is the difference.
I drive my m3 around happy. She hates it cuz it the ride harshness gives her a headache and the tranny is choppy and jerky. The same reasons that i love it.
John V
12-07-2006, 10:40 AM
e30 M3? cool
I don't think E30 M3s have choppy or jerky transmissions. Unless of course richbrad can't drive.
oh...but he has an M3 with a harsh ride
:dunno:
richbrad
12-07-2006, 10:42 AM
e46...smg
maybe she said the tranny is choppy and I am jerky...i don't remember
lol
are your shocks shot or something?
why is the ride harsh?
John V
12-07-2006, 10:51 AM
are your shocks shot or something?
why is the ride harsh?
All race cars have a harsh ride. Don't you know anything? :dunno:
lemming
12-07-2006, 11:09 AM
FWIW, it looks more like we'll end up getting a new V70R (as was our plan for the last several months). I'm sure we'll waffle a bit more though.:rolleyes:
if i wasn't pushed to get an e350 wagon (and i am), i'd opt for the outback XT (manual probably).
richbrad
12-07-2006, 11:09 AM
well...
I like my tire pressure set on the high side...and the m3 naturally rides hard. She likes the cushy ride that my car definitely does not have. She generally thinks any manual transmission is annoying to the passenger...as do it.
I hate the feeling of being a passenger in a car where i have to anticipate shifts with my neck muscles. Actually, my smg kinda causes this when i am driving. But, that is a whole different story.
I hate the feeling of being a passenger in a car where i have to anticipate shifts with my neck muscles. Actually, my smg kinda causes this when i am driving.
I guess Aty was right. Something must be wrong with your car.
I guess Aty was right. Something must be wrong with your car.
Huh ? ? I don't get this ... the SMG transmission is on the jerky side until you learn it and the ride of an M3 is harsh compared to a R350 Benz. As car guys we don't think it is harsh but to the normal person it can definitely be conceived as such.
Maybe you were just joking, I'm not really sure :dunno:
FYI to richbrad ... aty is the Makaveli who had an M3 but now has a Elise ...
IndyMike
12-07-2006, 11:53 AM
Sylvester, that avatar gots to go, man. I feel like :scratch: all over when I look at it.
Although it is pretty hilarious. :D
clyde
12-07-2006, 11:56 AM
I guess Aty was right. Something must be wrong with your car.
He says it naturally rides hard. I agree, it must be broken, naturally.
richbrad
12-07-2006, 12:17 PM
the elise is a really nice car. However, my life situation requires me to stay alive and it is simply too small to do that in if you get hit by say an r350. Furthermore, it has a toyota engine in it which is embarrasing. I am sure it rides harsh as well. Is it really that hard to understand that my wife thinks the m3 rides hard? Are you guys having trouble visualizing this?
:dunno:
John V
12-07-2006, 01:12 PM
the elise is a really nice car. However, my life situation requires me to stay alive and it is simply too small to do that in if you get hit by say an r350.
:lol: :lol:
... the SMG transmission is on the jerky side until you learn it and the ride of an M3 is harsh compared to a R350 Benz.
I'm not disagreeing that the ride of the M3 on OE suspension sucks...but I've never found SMG to be "jerky".
richbrad
12-07-2006, 02:46 PM
do a 3 to 2 downshift without blipping the throttle while coming to a stop and tell me it isnt jerky...or dont lift on upshift
BahnBaum
12-07-2006, 03:04 PM
do a 3 to 2 downshift without blipping the throttle while coming to a stop
Is that possible with SMG? I thought it did the blip automatically.
Alex
do a 3 to 2 downshift without blipping the throttle while coming to a stop and tell me it isnt jerky...or dont lift on upshift
I don't have a problem doing either of those.
richbrad
12-07-2006, 03:39 PM
whatever....
I don't have a problem doing either of those.
I don't think what your saying is something to 'have a problem' with ... it sounds like if you do a 3-2 downshift without blipping the throttle then the car shifts jerky ... that makes total sense because the SMG is a manual transmission and if you downshift a manual, and just pop the clutch out when downshifting without matching the gas you will get a jerking as well.
Are you saying that your SMG doesn't do this ? If not maybe your clutch is slipping ... if anything I think your car might need some service :dunno:
richbrad
12-07-2006, 03:50 PM
unless you have an smg af, i dont want to go into the mechanics of it...nothing wrong with my car. the point was you are slightly disconnected from the car with the shifts and it is annoying...
my wifes problem is that she prefers the smoothness that having a torque converter provides....
Are you saying that your SMG doesn't do this ?
There is a saying in the IT industry that I think applies here, PEBKAC.
unless you have an smg af, i dont want to go into the mechanics of it...nothing wrong with my car. the point was you are slightly disconnected from the car with the shifts and it is annoying...
My post was in reference to Bren's car ... it sounds like the clutch is slipping on his NOT YOURS :irate: !!!!
There is a saying in the IT industry that I think applies here, PEBKAC.
Bren ... do you think I am understanding this :dunno:
Let me give it a shot ...
Please eat boobies ketchup air conditioning :D
or
people eat bear kum also crap in pants (you forgot the IP in yours) :D
There is a saying in the IT industry that I think applies here, PEBKAC.
Problem Exists Between Knees And Cranium?
richbrad
12-07-2006, 04:05 PM
agreed. I drove the manual and it lacked feel. the only worse one was the Porsche boxster. I am happy overall with the smg most of the time. For those who haven;t had the opportunity....i will try to describe the feeling as best as i can.
When you drive a manual car, alot is going on. your right hand is shifting, your left is steering, your left foot is clutching and your right is gassing. Furthermore, your neck muscles are perfectly coordinated to brace at the perfect time. This is all a muscle memory situation. With the smg, your not using the clutch. This is done hydraulically and therefore causes a slight disconnect. It is this disconnect that makes you feel a bit like a passenger does in a manual car (if that makes any sense).
PEBKAC is an acronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym) which stands for "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair".
Also used is PEBCAC, which stands for "Problem Exists Between Computer And Chair", or PEBCAK ("Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard"). Other variations are PIBKAC ("Problem Is Between Keyboard And Chair") or EBKAC ("Error Between Keyboard And Chair").
It is most commonly used by experts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert) to describe to one another that the problem was not in the computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer) but was instead caused by the user operating it.
richbrad
12-07-2006, 05:02 PM
PEBAFARB
problem exists between AF and RIchbrad. Do not question my driving skills as them be fightin words... I shift the SMG fine... unless you are too much of a F*c*tard to understand my previous post. It seems maybe your mind is disconnected from your typing finger when you are putting your thoughts together. perhaps you should go back, read again, and actually think before you type.
PEBKAC is an acronym (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acronym) which stands for "Problem Exists Between Keyboard And Chair".
Also used is PEBCAC, which stands for "Problem Exists Between Computer And Chair", or PEBCAK ("Problem Exists Between Chair And Keyboard"). Other variations are PIBKAC ("Problem Is Between Keyboard And Chair") or EBKAC ("Error Between Keyboard And Chair").
It is most commonly used by experts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expert) to describe to one another that the problem was not in the computer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer) but was instead caused by the user operating it.
Ahh. I had heard "PEBE" (Problem exists between ears) -- hence my confusion.
I typically refer to those as wetware errors.
My post was in reference to Bren's car ... it sounds like the clutch is slipping on his NOT YOURS :irate: !!!!
I think you should probably leave the mechanical diagnosis up to your amply paid NY mechanics ;)
PEBAFARB
:thumbup:
:+1
Also, seeing how modern BMW clutches suck so bad, given a choice, I will always pick SMG.
Older BMW's and P cars with non assisted clutch, that's a different story.
Since this thread is also going downhill fast, I'll pitch in. All smgs I've tried suck monkeyb*lls. (I & II)
richbrad
12-08-2006, 09:46 AM
i bet those monkeys taste salty...
lemming
12-10-2006, 08:56 PM
Since this thread is also going downhill fast, I'll pitch in. All smgs I've tried suck monkeyb*lls. (I & II)
are there any BMWs, other than the 335, with enough torque to actually cause driveline shudder when shifting?
are there any BMWs, other than the 335, with enough torque to actually cause driveline shudder when shifting?
The E46 M3; it's actually worse in this regard (for whatever reason) than the 335.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.