Truck shopping....

[Nick M3]

So, I've kind of given up on the whole used Suburban thing. 2500 'burbs are either insanely overpriced, or have absolutely had the shit kicked out of them (proobably because people like me buy them - but I know better than to buy a truck from someone like me).


If I'm buying new, a 'burb just doesn't really make sense. (It probably never really made sense, but that's a separate issue.) Writing a pickup off as a business expense expands my budget a fair bit.

So, the contestants:
Chevy Silverado 2500HD
Thus far, this one is my favorite. Even a pretty stripped model (with the 40/20/40 bench) is really comfortable. It drives pretty nicely, and it's fairly maneuverable in tighter spaces. The base 6.0 gasser is adequate, although the diesel is tempting.

If I can make myself get a gasser, the truck can be had for $25-26K.

Ford F-250SD
This pretty much sucked. None of the seat options were comfortable, the thing felt huge in a way that the Chevy didn't, and the base engine is pathetic. The 5.4 can't even get the damned thing up a hill at less that WOT. The 6.0 PSD obviously solves that problem, but the 6.0 PSD scares the crap out of me.

Since I HAVE to get the diesel, and it requires a lot more options to make it reasonably comfortable, this gets pretty damned expensive.

Dodge Ram 2500
...I'll update when I drive one.


On a totally separate note, what the hell do you do for fuel if you have an MY07 diesel? When will gas stations be forced to carry the new diesel that you're actually able to use?

[dredmo]

If you want a heavy duty truck that feels like a smaller truck, the Chevy is the only way to go. I'd still suggest Ford over Chevy, but if you find it uncomfortable, then no way. It is bigger as well, yet the Chevy HD finds a way to keep it smaller.

If you get the chevy HD will you be getting gas or diesel? Allison tranny?

The chevy HD is what I would go with for you, but that's only if you refuse the Ford. =P

[bren]

On a totally separate note, what the hell do you do for fuel if you have an MY07 diesel? When will gas stations be forced to carry the new diesel that you're actually able to use?

They are phasing in the new fuel now...as of September actually.

[bren]

So, the contestants:
Chevy Silverado 2500HD
Thus far, this one is my favorite. Even a pretty stripped model (with the 40/20/40 bench) is really comfortable. It drives pretty nicely, and it's fairly maneuverable in tighter spaces. The base 6.0 gasser is adequate, although the diesel is tempting.

If I can make myself get a gasser, the truck can be had for $25-26K.

Ford F-250SD
This pretty much sucked. None of the seat options were comfortable, the thing felt huge in a way that the Chevy didn't, and the base engine is pathetic. The 5.4 can't even get the damned thing up a hill at less that WOT. The 6.0 PSD obviously solves that problem, but the 6.0 PSD scares the crap out of me.

Since I HAVE to get the diesel, and it requires a lot more options to make it reasonably comfortable, this gets pretty damned expensive.

Dodge Ram 2500
...I'll update when I drive one.



The new fuel reg's pretty much required all the manufacturers to develop larger engines due to the new emissions killing power.

We looked at a Ford King Ranch which had a great interior IMO. As you said the power left a lot to be desired. The 6.0 PSD should be all gone by now...on new trucks anyway. From what I've heard they have an all new engine (6.4 I believe.)

The Chevy was too expensive at the time relative to the others. That, and the fact that we were replacing a Chevy that was nothing but trouble crossed them off the list.

The Dodge rides like a truck (it has solid axles) and won't win any interior awards but the price was right and the Cummins can't be beat for towing power out of the box. Personally I like the stiffer ride over the soft/wallow of the other trucks. The Dodge is also a little bit smaller and IIRC has a better turning radius than the others.

[ff]

My step father and brother-in-law have had stellar ownership experiences with their Dodge Diesels.

[Nick M3]

I should also mention that whatever I get will be driven in Washington, D.C. at least as much as it tows.

Why do you like the Fords, dred?

[JST]

I should also mention that whatever I get will be driven in Washington, D.C. at least as much as it tows.

Why do you like the Fords, dred?


http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=124164&postcount=8

[dredmo]

I should also mention that whatever I get will be driven in Washington, D.C. at least as much as it tows.

Why do you like the Fords, dred?

Here are my reasons.

1. the new 150s drive like a car, no noticeable roll or floatiness
2. it comes with everything, comfy interior, decent stereo, sharp looking interfaces, adjustable pedals for my lil' asian wife lol, 310HP V8, 9200 towing capacity
3. The FX4 w/towing comes with skid plates, towing package, and upgraded suspension
4. LSD is standard.

Let me be honest, the 2500HD with the 502 gas and allison tranny is a beast and I like it. It is one of two main vehicles I drive at work (primarily a 2000 suburban 454 w 4:56 gears and lockers ooh ooh aah) but the Ford is more comfortable, has a great turn radius, MUCH better clearance, is more rugged off the lot, has better tow ratios per size of the vehicle, more HP (pound for pound and excluding the 2500HD beast with the 502) and is more stable and less rattle-y on the wash board, shale, and mud roads.

To me, my Ford is like a tall comfy car with uber tight steering. The 2003 fords sucked ass FYI.


That said, I personally think you cannot hurt yourself by buying the new chevy trucks. They are great, I just personally feel the Ford edges them out in just about every category.

One other note, Titan is a decent truck as well, although it does not fit my taste at all.

[Nick M3]

The new fuel reg's pretty much required all the manufacturers to develop larger engines due to the new emissions killing power.

We looked at a Ford King Ranch which had a great interior IMO. As you said the power left a lot to be desired. The 6.0 PSD should be all gone by now...on new trucks anyway. From what I've heard they have an all new engine (6.4 I believe.)

The Chevy was too expensive at the time relative to the others. That, and the fact that we were replacing a Chevy that was nothing but trouble crossed them off the list.

The Dodge rides like a truck (it has solid axles) and won't win any interior awards but the price was right and the Cummins can't be beat for towing power out of the box. Personally I like the stiffer ride over the soft/wallow of the other trucks. The Dodge is also a little bit smaller and IIRC has a better turning radius than the others.
All the '07s I saw had the 6.0. I guess that's why it had so much less power than everyone else's diesel.

[clyde]

One other note, Titan is a decent truck as well, although it does not fit my taste at all.

I have to say that I'm really digging the Armada at the moment.

[bren]

I should also mention that whatever I get will be driven in Washington, D.C. at least as much as it tows.

Why do you like the Fords, dred?
Realize that Dred is talking about the F150, not the SuperDuty (F250) which afaik has solid axles like the Dodge. For ride quality I don't think you'll beat the Chevy in a heavy duty truck.

[clyde]

Just a question for Nick...

How far and how often do you expect to tow?

[John V]

The Dodge rides like a truck (it has solid axles) and won't win any interior awards but the price was right and the Cummins can't be beat for towing power out of the box. Personally I like the stiffer ride over the soft/wallow of the other trucks. The Dodge is also a little bit smaller and IIRC has a better turning radius than the others.

I would think that when towing and loaded with gear the ride would improve. Right or wrong? :dunno:

I'd probably do a guesstimate cost / benefit / resale trade for the gas versus diesel option. The diesel options might cost more up front but eventually you will sell the thing and diesels have better resale, sometimes by a lot. The diesels will inevitably tow better than even the most powerful gas option.

[Sharp11]

I would think that when towing and loaded with gear the ride would improve. Right or wrong? :dunno:

I'd probably do a guesstimate cost / benefit / resale trade for the gas versus diesel option. The diesel options might cost more up front but eventually you will sell the thing and diesels have better resale, sometimes by a lot. The diesels will inevitably tow better than even the most powerful gas option.

Fwiw, I just saw a promo video where a VW Toureg with the V10 diesel was used to tow a jumbo jet.

Pretty impressive.

Ed

[John V]

No way.

[clyde]

http://www.bizbuzzmedia.com/blogs/big_lorry_blog/archive/2006/11/22/5463.aspx

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/22/touareg-v10-tdi-tows-a-747/

(not that I will ever willfully agree with Ed, lest I inject some positivity to this place ;))

[John V]

I wasn't saying, "No way, Ed, you're a liar" but rather, "No way, holy fcuk, that's nuts." :)

[clyde]

I wasn't saying, "No way, Ed, you're a liar" but rather, "No way, holy fcuk, that's nuts." :)
:(

Aw well...It may be nuts, but now that I've thought about it for a couple minutes, I'm not sure how impressive it actually is. :dunno:

[Nick M3]

:(

Aw well...It may be nuts, but now that I've thought about it for a couple minutes, I'm not sure how impressive it actually is. :dunno:
It isn't, is the answer. Otherwise, how the hell would they move planes with those little tractors all the time? But it looks pretty cool.

[Nick M3]

Just a question for Nick...

How far and how often do you expect to tow?
Pretty often, and trips as far as Sebring are not at all impossible.

I also don't really want to rule out an enclosed trailer now.

The big thing for me is that the markup for a heavy duty pickup is not much. A couple grand at most - the only question is whether or not to spring for the diesel.

I prefer American trucks because you're fairly likely to be able to rebuild them from the frame up out of an autodrone in bumfuck, missouri.

[bren]

I would think that when towing and loaded with gear the ride would improve. Right or wrong? :dunno:

I'd probably do a guesstimate cost / benefit / resale trade for the gas versus diesel option. The diesel options might cost more up front but eventually you will sell the thing and diesels have better resale, sometimes by a lot. The diesels will inevitably tow better than even the most powerful gas option.

Diesel resale is A LOT better than gas, that's for sure. The difference may even grow greater as the new diesels are like OBDII cars in that they are going to be much harder and more expensive to Bomb (mod in diesel speak) to rediculous HP/TQ levels.

Of course, a diesel truck is incredible overkill for a single car open trailer...but it sure is nice :)

[Nick M3]

Diesel resale is A LOT better than gas, that's for sure. The difference may even grow greater as the new diesels are like OBDII cars in that they are going to be much harder and more expensive to Bomb (mod in diesel speak) to rediculous HP/TQ levels.

Of course, a diesel truck is incredible overkill for a single car open trailer...but it sure is nice :)
Bobbie keeps saying things abotu digging up a dual car trailer, too.

[clyde]

If you're going to use it for towing 90% of the time, the answer is pretty clear...diesel 2500.

If your non-towing use is going to be 25% or more, it's a tougher nut to crack. If you're not set on enclosed for next year, buying a used half-ton to use for a year may not be the worst idea. If you buy used, you won't lose much selling it this time next year (used Titans are cheap)...when there will be more used GMT900s to choose from...and likely some better engine options for the 2008 model year if you're going to go new. Plus it will give you some experience and probably give you a better idea of what you really want and need in a truck in both basic specs and creature comforts than just relying on numbers and what other people tell you that you need.

[lemming]

has the reliability of the ford diesel engine improved?

just curious. i dunno how good/bad the duramax (GM) engine is. i'm constantly threatening to get one to commute to work.

[clyde]

I don't remember now, but I thought the early 6.0 PS had a very spotty track record while the later units were much improved. :dunno: The bigger PS didn't have any major issues IIRC.

[lip277]

If you want a heavy duty truck that feels like a smaller truck, the Chevy is the only way to go. I'd still suggest Ford over Chevy, but if you find it uncomfortable, then no way. It is bigger as well, yet the Chevy HD finds a way to keep it smaller.

If you get the chevy HD will you be getting gas or diesel? Allison tranny?

The chevy HD is what I would go with for you, but that's only if you refuse the Ford. =P

What he said.

I have the PS F-250 and love it.
One brother has one also.
The other brother has a Chev Duramax/Allison and he loves that as well.

I think it mainly a matter of choice. Both are very good.
The one thing we've noticed... Both the Fords are quicker than the Chev (gearing? , Power delivery? Don't know....)

[BahnBaum]

I'd probably do a guesstimate cost / benefit / resale trade for the gas versus diesel option. The diesel options might cost more up front but eventually you will sell the thing and diesels have better resale, sometimes by a lot. The diesels will inevitably tow better than even the most powerful gas option.

I've seen this analyzed on some boat towing boards, and it seems the resale and fuel economy difference isn't close to making up the initial cost difference. Not saying that it doesn't make sense to buy diesel, just do it for use and utility reasons.

Alex

[CABINBLACKM3]

Bobbie keeps saying things abotu digging up a dual car trailer, too.

You need a dual car trailer its a must in my book..:D

[CABINBLACKM3]

Diesel cough Diesel (Hell you should be thinking Dully!) You can slamm it and tow in pimpin fashion yo!

[ARCHER]

We absolutely love the F-250 PSD - great truck. I will be installing the Hypertech Stage III tuning immediately following dinner tonight. :cool:

[lip277]

We absolutely love the F-250 PSD - great truck. I will be installing the Hypertech Stage III tuning immediately following dinner tonight. :cool:

And letting me know how big you smile is, right?

:lol:

[ARCHER]

And letting me know how big you smile is, right?

:lol:

First impression... DAMN!

It has just started snowing so the streets are wet. Quarter throttle results in an authoritative downshift and the RPMs climb stupid fast - much, much faster than stock tuning. Honestly, that is as far as I could push it without walking the tailgate into the next lane. Just this tentative run around the neighborhood was enough to reveal that, without question, this is a totally different animal.

I am bummed that I can't give you a better report at the moment. It is likely to snow throughout tonight and tomorrow, and our high temps won't reach freezing until the weekend. Looks like it may be a few days before I get the opportunity to give it an honest run. :mad:

The install was wicked easy. Just plug in the tuning module and follow the prompts on the display. It took me all of 20 minutes.