STi across the board: next leading question.

[lemming]

in the balance of "nice" cars that come with amenities that also come with softer plastics but suffer a little bit (okay, a lot) in the power to weight ratio department, how does one do the calculus?

the calculus is to be able to live with a car long term. if it's too slow, that means a quick turnaround time in my household. if it's fast, it has staying power, but then if it's fast but means living without certain things, that slowly grinds me down, too.

the legacy STi or next gen forester STi seem ideal for me because i like fast cars, but i wonder how many of you would be willing to go without in terms of apparent luxury items to have the go-fast (but useful in space) cars?

[dan]

f luxury items

[FC]

As always, it depends.

On a family wagon that my wife will drive a lot and must take people+dog+cargo for many long trips a year I will take luxury over great performance (I still want good low-end torque, handling, and brakes).

On MY daily driver, I want a bit of both (assuming a "normal" commute - right now I couldn't care less. My commute is too damn short to care).

On a 3rd car/weekend fun car, it tilts more towards performance and much less towards luxury.

And of course, on a "dedicated" track car, who gives a shit about luxury?

So it's a predictable sliding scale.

All that said, there is a difference between "refinement" and "luxury." And finally, people's definition of luxury (or refinement) will vary.

[JST]

in the balance of "nice" cars that come with amenities that also come with softer plastics but suffer a little bit (okay, a lot) in the power to weight ratio department, how does one do the calculus?

the calculus is to be able to live with a car long term. if it's too slow, that means a quick turnaround time in my household. if it's fast, it has staying power, but then if it's fast but means living without certain things, that slowly grinds me down, too.

the legacy STi or next gen forester STi seem ideal for me because i like fast cars, but i wonder how many of you would be willing to go without in terms of apparent luxury items to have the go-fast (but useful in space) cars?

The Leg GT has addressed most of my "luxury" complaints by offering an aux in for the stereo, satrad, and folding seats this year. The interior is so-so, but is fine for a daily commuter. Assuming that a Leg STi had at least this level of appointment, I'd be OK with it as a 2nd car, I think.

[lemming]

The Leg GT has addressed most of my "luxury" complaints by offering an aux in for the stereo, satrad, and folding seats this year. The interior is so-so, but is fine for a daily commuter. Assuming that a Leg STi had at least this level of appointment, I'd be OK with it as a 2nd car, I think.

thanks for your input(s).

i remember liking my legGT a lot but for some minor issues that i strongly suspect will be addressed by an STi package. brakes and brake feel was one. OEM tires was another. i didn't like the clutch so much, but if the put in the same clutch and 6MT as the impreza STi, the car would be damn near perfect. very nice leather (IMO) and amenities.

[JST]

thanks for your input(s).

i remember liking my legGT a lot but for some minor issues that i strongly suspect will be addressed by an STi package. brakes and brake feel was one. OEM tires was another. i didn't like the clutch so much, but if the put in the same clutch and 6MT as the impreza STi, the car would be damn near perfect. very nice leather (IMO) and amenities.

One problem is cost--a Leg GT is already near 30K, and assuming that the STi would cost at least as much as the Spec.B package (and more than the WRX STi), you'd probably be talking about $35K. Once I am spending 35K, a whole lot of more attractive options open up, including (e.g.) a G35 or any number of lightly used BMWs.

[lemming]

true.

but i really need the space --that's why i was thinking Legacy STi wagon or Forester STi.

i agree that the legacy STi sedan is expensive, but in terms of wagons, i can't really find something that is really fast at this pricepoint.

s4 avant: 50k.
e55 wagon: 90k.

[FC]

true.

but i really need the space --that's why i was thinking Legacy STi wagon or Forester STi.

i agree that the legacy STi sedan is expensive, but in terms of wagons, i can't really find something that is really fast at this pricepoint.

s4 avant: 50k.
e55 wagon: 90k.

V70R: 40K.

...and much roomier than a Legacy.

[lemming]

V70R: 40K.

...and much roomier than a Legacy.

so slooooooow, though.

about 400 pounds heavier and the AWD is superior in the subie --i refuse to drive any awd car with a FWD bias. i'm sure most people would never notice, but i have even in test driving. i hate volvo AWD systems and FWD is pretty miserable.

[JST]

true.

but i really need the space --that's why i was thinking Legacy STi wagon or Forester STi.

i agree that the legacy STi sedan is expensive, but in terms of wagons, i can't really find something that is really fast at this pricepoint.

s4 avant: 50k.
e55 wagon: 90k.

A Legacy STi wagon would be worth a look, but will there be such a creature? You can't even get a manual in a Leg GT wagon anymore.

An S4 Avant can be had for much, much less on the used market, and might suit your taste better. Nonetheless, having looked at the Avant and lived with an A4 sedan, they don't have much in the way of room.

2005 S4 Avant, Nogaro blue, 27K miles, 35.9.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=205425536&dealer_id=58112107&car_year=2005&search_type=both&num_records=25&make=AUDI&keywordsfyc=&transmission=Manual&distance=200&model=S4&address=22314&make2=&advanced=y&default_sort=priceDESC&certified=&max_mileage=&max_price=&sort_type=priceDESC&min_price=&first_record=51&body_code=0&end_year=2007&color=&keywordsrep=&start_year=1981&drive=&pager.offset=50&engine=&doors=&style_flag=1&fuel=&cardist=200

[FC]

so slooooooow, though.

about 400 pounds heavier and the AWD is superior in the subie --i refuse to drive any awd car with a FWD bias. i'm sure most people would never notice, but i have even in test driving. i hate volvo AWD systems and FWD is pretty miserable.


The V70R weighs only ~200 lbs more. Also, I brought up the FWD-bias issue at the V70R forum and they mentioned the pre-loaded Haldex or whatevr made it almost a non-issue. This froma couple of guys who seemed to know their shit. That may explain why, in admittedly not very aggressive driving, I could not notice any FWD characteristics at all. And mind you, I went in looking for it and biased against it.

But hey, it's your call.

[lemming]

if their version of preload means 5-10% going to the rear tires......hee hee hee. it also doesn't help that one cannot turn off the DSC at all/completely. did they also maybe mention why it doesn't have any limited slip differentials at any of the driving axles? probably has preloaded electronic brake-based differentials.

i fear that the V70R is too soft for me --it doesn't even stack up well to the legacy GT wagon, let alone an vaporware based STi version. but that's what i meant about the balance between luxe and performance. the R is a nicer car inside. not by much, but noticeably nicer. but you pay for that in terms of weight and a hack job on the awd.

a big draw for me in the subaru chassis is that it's designed from the ground up to be an awd vehicle. there's no question that in teh ford empire, it's always FWD first and you can tell by the default power distribution as well as mechanically how the power is routed from the engine to the center transfer case.

if the STi doesn't occur or is disappointing, i might go with a new S4 avant because i don't think i could deal with a used s4. VAG doesn't build vehicles well enough for them to be reliable as pre-owned cars. they're barely reliable enough brand new.

[clyde]

2005 S4 Avant, Nogaro blue, 27K miles, 35.9.
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=205425536

I say this with all of the love in my heart...why the fuck did you have to post that? I am at a very fragile point trying to stave off my urge to buy a 2007 Super Bee to buy an Armada...all while trying to keep a lid on my reluctance to sell the RX-8.

Seeing this doesn't help.

:mad2:

[JST]

I say this with all of the love in my heart...why the fuck did you have to post that? I am at a very fragile point trying to stave off my urge to buy a 2007 Super Bee to buy an Armada...all while trying to keep a lid on my reluctance to sell the RX-8.

Seeing this doesn't help.

:mad2:

You should know that when it comes to what car to buy, you should always listen to me.

And a Nogaro blue S4 is a perfect choice. Just get it to replace the iT, and leave your other plans unchanged.

[JST]

if their version of preload means 5-10% going to the rear tires......hee hee hee. it also doesn't help that one cannot turn off the DSC at all/completely. did they also maybe mention why it doesn't have any limited slip differentials at any of the driving axles? probably has preloaded electronic brake-based differentials.

i fear that the V70R is too soft for me --it doesn't even stack up well to the legacy GT wagon, let alone an vaporware based STi version. but that's what i meant about the balance between luxe and performance. the R is a nicer car inside. not by much, but noticeably nicer. but you pay for that in terms of weight and a hack job on the awd.

a big draw for me in the subaru chassis is that it's designed from the ground up to be an awd vehicle. there's no question that in teh ford empire, it's always FWD first and you can tell by the default power distribution as well as mechanically how the power is routed from the engine to the center transfer case.

if the STi doesn't occur or is disappointing, i might go with a new S4 avant because i don't think i could deal with a used s4. VAG doesn't build vehicles well enough for them to be reliable as pre-owned cars. they're barely reliable enough brand new.

For whatever it's worth, the Volvo P2 and AWD system is all Swede; Ford has adopted it throughout the empire on various cars, but it was Volvo's design first.

The V70 has very little sport in it, even in the R version. The best that can be said about the R is that it's big, its comfortable inside, it's smooth on the highway, it's OK in the snow (with the right tires), it comes with a stick, and it has enough power to make things mildly interesting. It's not a car that I would want to have as my only or primary car, but with 04 Rs going for well under 30K, it's a pretty compelling family truckster/dog transporter.

Oh, I will say that the adjustable suspension, on "Advanced Sport" setting, is pretty taut.

[FC]

For whatever it's worth, the Volvo P2 and AWD system is all Swede; Ford has adopted it throughout the empire on various cars, but it was Volvo's design first.

The V70 has very little sport in it, even in the R version. The best that can be said about the R is that it's big, its comfortable inside, it's smooth on the highway, it's OK in the snow (with the right tires), it comes with a stick, and it has enough power to make things mildly interesting. It's not a car that I would want to have as my only or primary car, but with 04 Rs going for well under 30K, it's a pretty compelling family truckster/dog transporter.

Oh, I will say that the adjustable suspension, on "Advanced Sport" setting, is pretty taut.


I agree on all counts. Other than pointing out I'd never own that car out of warranty. Fortunatelly Volvo does offer some pretty great factory extended warranties.

Most of us here would never own that car as our primary car. But lemming has quite the "other" car. Then again, this car would replace his CTS-V, so I can see why he wouldn't want it.

BTW, that S4 looks pretty sweet. Too bad it's a bit small. I've always had a soft spot for the A4 Avants, especially S4's.

[lemming]

any hints as to when they're about to redo the a4 chassis? seems like it's been just a refresh on the current one.