View Full Version : If BMWNA brings an E90 (sedan) M3 to the US with a stick, will you buy one?
Who would seriously consider one? If there isn't even a solid base of interest here, I'm not sure where there would be.
I'm sticking with "Who knows." As I sit here, I can't see driving another E90 sedan on the heels of this one. Even with the changes one can assume would be present on an M3 (over a regular 330i or even 335i), it's still, basically, the same ugly car. But the eventual price of the M3 and the other options available come spring of '09 will be the determining factors.
If I had to have a sedan and could not have a 3rd car as a fun car, then yes, I would be interested in having one. But I already expect the price to be prohibitive, so it would likely be a 335i with some goodies.
This also assumes, that while it will be a pig, it will somhow magically feel light-ish. And of course, performance would have to be other-worldly.
Otherwise, for that kind of money, I'd keep my used 330i and pick up a used Boxster.
If I had to have a sedan and could not have a 3rd car as a fun car, then yes, I would be interested in having one. But I already expect the price to be prohibitive, so it would likely be a 335i with some goodies.
:+1
Answered "yes, but price is a concern". And that means that I would strongly consider one, provided that the price isn't excessive.
Answered "yes, but price is a concern". And that means that I would strongly consider one, provided that the price isn't excessive.
<yoda>Oh, it will be.
It... WILL... be.</yoda>
rumatt
09-12-2006, 10:43 AM
<yoda>Oh, it will be.
It... WILL... be.</yoda>
:lol:
I suspect the M3 will be way too expensive or me to consider for more than 30 seconds.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am still very curious to find out if the M3 diff will fit the 335i. I think that will impact a number of us actually.
John V
09-12-2006, 10:48 AM
I'm not interested in another big boat of a GT right now. Maybe in the future, but not now. Besides, it'll be a while before they're remotely affordable on the used market which is how I buy my cars anyway.
<yoda>Oh, it will be.
It... WILL... be.</yoda>
:lol:
Answered "yes, but price is a concern". And that means that I would strongly consider one, provided that the price isn't excessive.
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=35785&postcount=2
lemming
09-12-2006, 12:13 PM
i won't commit until i know the specs for curb weight and torque.
but i'm kind of interested.
Sharp11
09-12-2006, 12:20 PM
I'm not the least bit interested.
Ed
If the M3/4 has more power/torque than the CTSV, or the RS4. Scratch the RS4, it has single piston open rear caliper.
OK, so unless the M3/4 is better than the CTSV...
Oh, and comes with SMG.:ack:
Not really interested in BMW soft ass wimpy no feel stick shift after having driven BMW's pinnacle of stick shifts, the E30 and the E36, and the GT2 non assisted stiff ass clutch.
The clutch/throttle/stick combo in my E90 is actually very good.
armaq
09-12-2006, 04:41 PM
I voted yes but I fear the E92 M3 will be a better car than E90 M3. In the E36 and E46 eras, the sedan chassis was always better than the coupe (stiffer, more aerodynamic, etc) while performance figures were identical between the two. So sedan over coupe made a lot more sense back then. With the E90 and E92, BMW went the other way around and the coupe is the sportier (25% stiffer, lighter) car now. According to BMW, the E92 335i is 0.1s faster to 100km/h than the E90 335i too.
I don't think I will buy an E90 M3 if it's inferior to the E92 M3 in any way.
I voted yes but I fear the E92 M3 will be a better car than E90 M3. In the E36 and E46 eras, the sedan chassis was always better than the coupe (stiffer, more aerodynamic, etc) while performance figures were identical between the two. So sedan over coupe made a lot more sense back then. With the E90 and E92, BMW went the other way around and the coupe is the sportier (25% stiffer, lighter) car now. According to BMW, the E92 335i is 0.1s faster to 100km/h than the E90 335i too.
I don't think I will buy an E90 M3 if it's inferior to the E92 M3 in any way.
That may be, but the performance delta, for what I'd use the car for, would very easily get lost in the noise.
clyde
09-12-2006, 10:47 PM
I don't think I will buy an E90 M3 if it's inferior to the E92 M3 in any way.
:wtf: :loco:
"I can't buy this thing if that thing is somehow better. That the first thing otherwise has great objective and subjective qualities, I just couldn't bring myself to buy it something else might somehow be slightly better than it...epecially when I'll never be able to tell the difference between them in real world use."
armaq
09-13-2006, 12:21 AM
:wtf: :loco:
"I can't buy this thing if that thing is somehow better. That the first thing otherwise has great objective and subjective qualities, I just couldn't bring myself to buy it something else might somehow be slightly better than it...epecially when I'll never be able to tell the difference between them in real world use."
Why is it so hard to understand? 2 cars, one is lighter, faster and stiffer, the other has 2 more doors. I don't need the extra doors, so I go with the "slightly better" one. Is that not a logical choice? Also, weight and 0-60 aside, shouldn't being 25% stiffer a detectable difference? Were the guys (me included) who felt the E36 and E46 sedans were more solid than coupes dreaming? I know the difference between M3/2 and M3/4 will be small, but aren't we the guys who actually give a shit about small differences between cars?
Your comment would have made more sense if I said something like "I can't buy the sedan because the coupe is slightly better, even though I prefer the sedan and it fits my needs better..." The first half is what I said, not the second.
That may be, but the performance delta, for what I'd use the car for, would very easily get lost in the noise.
Four door M cars are cooler than two door M cars, so that overrides the performance differential. Also, in my opinion, a coupe SHOULD outperform a sedan to make up for the inconvenience it imposes by having only two doors and four seats.
I drove it, it is slightly better than the E46, but still no E36 M3 clutch.
I would be curious to see people's report once they remove the CDV...
I wouldn't expect it to be like the M3 clutch, because that would scare away even more potential stick buyers. But if the E90's setup is anything like the E60's, I can vouch for TD's claims in that it's very good. Significantly better than the E46, not just slightly.
clyde
09-13-2006, 10:32 AM
Why is it so hard to understand? 2 cars, one is lighter, faster and stiffer, the other has 2 more doors. I don't need the extra doors, so I go with the "slightly better" one. Is that not a logical choice? Also, weight and 0-60 aside, shouldn't being 25% stiffer a detectable difference? Were the guys (me included) who felt the E36 and E46 sedans were more solid than coupes dreaming? I know the difference between M3/2 and M3/4 will be small, but aren't we the guys who actually give a shit about small differences between cars?
Your comment would have made more sense if I said something like "I can't buy the sedan because the coupe is slightly better, even though I prefer the sedan and it fits my needs better..." The first half is what I said, not the second.
If you had said something like, "Given a choice between Product A and Product B, I'd buy the best one," I wouldn't have responded with what I wrote. Instead, though, you said, "I won't buy Product A if it is inferior to Product B in any way." Those statements don't really say the same thing.
John V
09-13-2006, 10:45 AM
I voted yes but I fear the E92 M3 will be a better car than E90 M3. In the E36 and E46 eras, the sedan chassis was always better than the coupe (stiffer, more aerodynamic, etc) while performance figures were identical between the two. So sedan over coupe made a lot more sense back then. With the E90 and E92, BMW went the other way around and the coupe is the sportier (25% stiffer, lighter) car now. According to BMW, the E92 335i is 0.1s faster to 100km/h than the E90 335i too.
I don't think I will buy an E90 M3 if it's inferior to the E92 M3 in any way.
The E36 sedans were heavier than the E36 coupes by about 75lbs. It was a bit more important when we were talking 3100lb E36 cars and not 3600lb E90 M3s.
It will be out of my league. :rolleyes:
iateyourcheese
09-14-2006, 02:49 PM
I wonder if they'd create a new poster for the e90 M3.
http://www.geocities.com/bmw_1999_m3/BMWF1M34.jpg
I wonder if they'd create a new poster for the e90 M3.
http://www.geocities.com/bmw_1999_m3/BMWF1M34.jpg
Ironically, that's the first time I've seen that ad.
Where is the "I'd prefer SMG" option? :p
rumatt
09-14-2006, 04:09 PM
Ironically, that's the first time I've seen that ad.
Same here. That's awesome.
wow, 0-60 in 5.7 was the fastest sedan in America
:ack:
iateyourcheese
09-14-2006, 05:15 PM
wow, 0-60 in 5.7 was the fastest sedan in America
:ack:
No kidding. The 6er boats are faster than that.
armaq
09-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Those statements don't really say the same thing.
They don't? My bad then...
The E36 sedans were heavier than the E36 coupes by about 75lbs. It was a bit more important when we were talking 3100lb E36 cars and not 3600lb E90 M3s.
According to this BMW spec sheet, they should weigh the same. When I had my car corner balanced last month, my sedan was 24lbs heavier than the coupe (same options, 1/2 tank of gas, w/o driver) that went on the scale earlier. I did have lighter wheels and tires though (about 4lbs per corner).
Nick M3
09-15-2006, 05:16 PM
:lol:
I suspect the M3 will be way too expensive or me to consider for more than 30 seconds.
Not to beat a dead horse, but I am still very curious to find out if the M3 diff will fit the 335i. I think that will impact a number of us actually.
No it won't. You'll almost certainly need to perform the same swap that's required to put an E46 M3 diff on a regular E46 - full subframe/suspension/driveshafts/brakes.
Diffsonline can provide a diff for a lot less than that'd cost. :p
iateyourcheese
09-15-2006, 09:07 PM
They don't? My bad then...
According to this BMW spec sheet, they should weigh the same. When I had my car corner balanced last month, my sedan was 24lbs heavier than the coupe (same options, 1/2 tank of gas, w/o driver) that went on the scale earlier. I did have lighter wheels and tires though (about 4lbs per corner).
I looked everywhere for that same spec sheet after John's comments. He's never wrong and here was our chance!
Oh JST...
Wasn't counting on not being able to find a spare tire for it.
Wasn't counting on not being able to find a spare tire for it.
Someone will make one eventually, I think.
Someone will make one eventually, I think.
Unless "eventually" = "January," it doesn't really help me though.
EDIT: And I'm not so sure about that--no one appears to have made one yet for the E39 M5.
Sharp11
08-19-2008, 01:58 PM
I think my next car might be something smaller, lighter and "funner" ..... I'm not excited at all by these steroided up, expensive sedans and coupes.
I think my next car might be something smaller, lighter and "funner" ..... I'm not excited at all by these steroided up, expensive sedans and coupes.
You should get a Mini. It's great entertainment. A Miata would do the trick, as well.
Unless "eventually" = "January," it doesn't really help me though.
EDIT: And I'm not so sure about that--no one appears to have made one yet for the E39 M5.
Hmm. That stinks. Could you have one made maybe?
You should get a Mini. It's great entertainment. A Miata would do the trick, as well.
:+1
I think my next car might be something smaller, lighter and "funner" ..... I'm not excited at all by these steroided up, expensive sedans and coupes.
+1
BTW, when you locate one that is worth the price of admission please let me know what it is.
lupinsea
08-19-2008, 02:18 PM
You should get a Mini. It's great entertainment. A Miata would do the trick, as well.
:+1 x 2
I'm digg'n the idea of a future Miata, but already with our boy here I'm starting to do an FC (:stickpoke:):
Keep the Jeep + Miata in several years when the ZHP is ready to bow out?
or
Keep the Jeep + MCS in several years " " " " " " "?
or
Sell current Jeep, get 4-door Wrangler and screw a sporty road car (when ZHP needs replacement)?
I really liked the Miata for it's lightness and HIGH fun factor and HIGH peace of mind. But with my boy here I'm wondering how likely I'd actually head out an enjoy it. A MCS at least has a back seat that's usable and it's a bit more practical (than a Miata).
Or maybe we ditch a 3rd car and upgrade to a 4-door Wrangler. It'd offer more room for the whole family (mom, dad, boy, dog) plus lots of room for gear for camping, offroading, and other outdoor activities.
I've got several years before I need to figure anything out and I'm still leaning toward a Miata. We'll see.
John V
08-19-2008, 02:21 PM
I considered an MX-5 for my next car. If not for the floptastic suspension, I'd probably own one (even though I think it's ugly as sin).
I'm extremely disappointed that the MS-R package (lower springs, stiffer bars and revalved shocks) wasn't more cost-effective. I'm more disappointed that the rumored Mazdaspeed MX-5 isn't going to happen.
Ultimately, I decided to buy something completely different for my next car.
:+1 x 2
I'm digg'n the idea of a future Miata, but already with our boy here I'm starting to do an FC (:stickpoke:):
Keep the Jeep + Miata in several years when the ZHP is ready to bow out?
or
Keep the Jeep + MCS in several years " " " " " " "?
or
Sell current Jeep, get 4-door Wrangler and screw a sporty road car (when ZHP needs replacement)?
I really liked the Miata for it's lightness and HIGH fun factor and HIGH peace of mind. But with my boy here I'm wondering how likely I'd actually head out an enjoy it. A MCS at least has a back seat that's usable and it's a bit more practical (than a Miata).
Or maybe we ditch a 3rd car and upgrade to a 4-door Wrangler. It'd offer more room for the whole family (mom, dad, boy, dog) plus lots of room for gear for camping, offroading, and other outdoor activities.
I've got several years before I need to figure anything out and I'm still leaning toward a Miata. We'll see.
Dude, you should totally move to a house for sale behind mine. Then we could share cars. We'll both have a ZHP, jeep, MCS, sportscar, etc. :lol:
clyde
08-19-2008, 02:48 PM
I considered an MX-5 for my next car. If not for the floptastic suspension, I'd probably own one (even though I think it's ugly as sin).
I'm extremely disappointed that the MS-R package (lower springs, stiffer bars and revalved shocks) wasn't more cost-effective. I'm more disappointed that the rumored Mazdaspeed MX-5 isn't going to happen.
Ultimately, I decided to buy something completely different for my next car.
Good man. Good man. :D
John V
08-19-2008, 02:56 PM
Good man. Good man. :D
I guess we'll see. :ack::D
lemming
08-19-2008, 04:03 PM
I guess we'll see. :ack::D
such as what?
:eek:
clyde
08-19-2008, 04:30 PM
such as what?
:eek:
something that has a better chance of winning (for next year, at least...hopefully)
lupinsea
08-19-2008, 06:35 PM
Dude, you should totally move to a house for sale behind mine. Then we could share cars. We'll both have a ZHP, jeep, MCS, sportscar, etc. :lol:
You know . . . the lot to our south is empty. I could design you a brand new house if you want to build there. :D
John V
08-19-2008, 07:22 PM
something that has a better chance of winning (for next year, at least...hopefully)
With us at the wheel? :dunno:
clyde
08-19-2008, 07:39 PM
With us at the wheel? :dunno:
Note that I said "better chance."
Still, I do believe that each of us can do it. Really.
Tripped over this thread while looking for something else.
Can't accuse JST of not backing up his words with actions...
Jeff_DML
04-22-2010, 01:44 PM
thought it was interesting they only offered the slushy on the E36 sedan/vert. Someone in my neighborhood has a e36 m3 sedan slushy:ack:
thought it was interesting they only offered the slushy on the E36 sedan/vert. Someone in my neighborhood has a e36 m3 sedan slushy:ack:
If I recall correctly, you could get a 1995 M3 coupe with the slushbox.
If I recall correctly, you could get a 1995 M3 coupe with the slushbox.
Isn't that what stuka had?:dunno:
clyde
04-22-2010, 03:53 PM
Isn't that what stuka had?:dunno:
If true, it sure would explain a lot...
Now, that's a 10k well spent.
wdc330i
04-23-2010, 10:13 AM
It was a 97 sedan slushie, then followed by a 98 manual coupe.
The whole traffic BS excused costed me about 10K in a year.
I made the same mistake in 2001. That's how I ended up with a 2001 330i and then a 2002 330i. :ack:
I made the same mistake in 2001. That's how I ended up with a 2001 330i and then a 2002 330i. :ack:
Well, getting rid of an '01 330i in favor of an '02 is always a good move.
wdc330i
04-23-2010, 11:42 AM
Well, getting rid of an '01 330i in favor of an '02 is always a good move.
Oddly enough, I liked the overboosted steering of the '01. It was very fast and responsive. But everything else about the '02 was better. It was a solid car. I only hope the '06 M3 holds up as well. The M3 steering response feels somewhere in the middle of the '01 and '02 330s.
The steering in my dad's (formerly our) '03 325xiT is super heavy. The X5 (no active steering) is pretty heavy as well.
Oddly enough, I liked the overboosted steering of the '01. It was very fast and responsive. But everything else about the '02 was better. It was a solid car. I only hope the '06 M3 holds up as well. The M3 steering response feels somewhere in the middle of the '01 and '02 330s.
The steering in my dad's (formerly our) '03 325xiT is super heavy. The X5 (no active steering) is pretty heavy as well.
I remember thinking that the E39's steering was heavier than the E90's and now I feel as though the E46 M3's is heavier than the E39's. But, strangely, I don't recall the E90's feeling all that light compared to the E36 M3's - which was definitely heavy.
My memory for stuff like this might just suck.
wdc330i
04-23-2010, 12:20 PM
I remember thinking that the E39's steering was heavier than the E90's and now I feel as though the E46 M3's is heavier than the E39's. But, strangely, I don't recall the E90's feeling all that light compared to the E36 M3's - which was definitely heavy.
My memory for stuff like this might just suck.
I think in general, for non-M cars at least, the 5 series weighting is biased to luxury (ie: lighter). Our e61 is fairly easy steering. I've felt the e90 sport loaners I've driven to be pretty heavy. Heavier, certainly than my '02 330i Sp. But it's hard to know what influences all these perceptions--tires/inflation; the car's weight?
Also, the more you drive one particular car over the other the more you accommodate to whatever rack it has. The M3 feels just perfect after a few days of driving. Same for the X5, when I drive it days in a row--except in parking lots and slow maneuvers.
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