View Full Version : 335i first drive
The obligatory I-drove-the-335i post.
Very nicely appointed space gray/coral red/6spd/prem/sport/etc/ (no idrive). Sticker $45xxx. Unfamiliar roads, night, 20 miles on the odometer. So no, I didn't beat on it, just got on it lightly.
Engine: Powerful and smooth, very 540i-like but faster. Car has a different character compared to any other 3er that I've known. It felt fast while I stayed under 3000rpm. While I could notice a slight lag when I went out looking for it, I wouldn't have thought I was driving a turbo if I hadn't been told. Salesman tried to point out the "throaty roar", I just heard a distant rumble. It is extremely civilized.
Gearbox: Easy, low effort, far less effort than even e46 zhp.
Clutch: Light, low on feel but smoother to drive than e46. Most likely due to shorter travel, I tend to remember that the e90 was like this as well.
Suspension: This is where it shines for everyday use. Compared to a zhp on michPS, it noticeably improves on the already high ride comfort. It "seems" to stay flatter on turns. While I enjoy turning fast with the zhp, I am getting tired of its lean. Once again, I didn't push too much. It did seem unnaturally flat for its softness and seemed to keep wheels on bumpy turns very well - I remember the e90 being like this as well.
Steering: Ok but not very communicative. More of a need-to-know basis rather than a constant drip of information. Liked the shape and feel of the wheel, it was quite small. I'd say it's better than the absurdly thick MZ4 wheel that I felt up before in the showroom, that thing is obscene.
Odds & ends: Liked the soft ambient lighting. Loved red interior and lumbar/width seats (I need to get lumbar in my next car!). Did not like gimmicky seat belt thingy and found it hard to play with the stereo - though to my untrained ears logic7 sounded pretty good.
Overall this may be the best daily driver bmw ever made. It's smooth, rides really well (to the point that I don't see how it's a sports suspension) and has effortless power. Would make a great hwy cruiser, suburban traffic blaster and occasional carver. It should bring the cts-v people back in to the fold.
Comparing it to the e46m3 as a lot of ppl have been doing due to similar power/cost numbers is pointless. They're as different as a porsche and a 5er (well not really but you get my drift). Perhaps it was the night/respecting the new car aspect but it did not seemed tuned in a way that made me want to play - much less than the slower, less settled zhp. Perhaps it's the weight or it's the comfy isolation or the soft suspension or all of them together but it is not trying to be sporty. It's just very capable and comfortable.
That said, if I had a longish commute or if I had a dedicated sports car, I can't see any car better than this at this or pretty much at any price point. Assuming the turbo reliability holds up, bmw has done it again.
Damn. Again, are we getting a 335xiT? and how big are E91's again (cargo-wise)?
Damn. Again, are we getting a 335xiT? and how big are E91's again (cargo-wise)?
Don't know the specs offhand, but we looked at E91s before getting the X3. Since US dealers won't stock an E91, my wife and I had to peak at one we saw in a parking lot on a trip to France in March. Rear volume is probably on par with an X3 -- slightly wider, but not quite as high since the side glass is a bit shorter than the X3.
By the way, I've now seen 2 E91s on the street in AZ. Saw the 2nd one last weekend -- and it had an ED plate up front...
Don't know the specs offhand, but we looked at E91s before getting the X3. Since US dealers won't stock an E91, my wife and I had to peak at one we saw in a parking lot on a trip to France in March. Rear volume is probably on par with an X3 -- slightly wider, but not quite as high since the side glass is a bit shorter than the X3.
By the way, I've now seen 2 E91s on the street in AZ. Saw the 2nd one last weekend -- and it had an ED plate up front...
Hmmm, not big enough for a family and a lab. I guess we should just get a V70R and stop waffling.:rolleyes:
rumatt
09-08-2006, 11:52 AM
That said, if I had a longish commute or if I had a dedicated sports car, I can't see any car better than this at this or pretty much at any price point. Assuming the turbo reliability holds up, bmw has done it again.
Damn. This is not good news for my strut bar sale. :D
My dealer just wrote the the 335 coupes have arrived. Test drive time!
wdc330i
09-08-2006, 12:40 PM
Damn. Again, are we getting a 335xiT? and how big are E91's again (cargo-wise)?
Big enough for a medium-sized dog, barely. We nixed it because the sharp rake of the roofline over the cargo area took away dog head height and the intrusion of the tonneau cover took away a bit of depth--especially when you have two dogs. We barely got our two dogs in the e46 wagon and it had more useable head room.
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164445
The 6er forum is as enjoyable as always. Perhaps this guy should work a bit less ;)
"
....
doubt it will increase substantially, performace is only one attribute, and not the most important by a long shot....imho there is no comparison that is even warranted between our 6ers and the 3er coupe, the 3er will be a high volume car and it will be much smaller inside and out and the fit and feel is entry level BMW....when you see it on the street, it will merely blend in, unlike the stand out 6er we know and luv
the question is....how may 6er owners rather a 3er coupe? 0%
how many 3er coupe owners rather a 6er? 100%
Lord I Work Toomuch... Marquis of Manhattan
MY05 US 645ci...Stratus Grey/black leather sport seats/sports pack/premium sound L7/CWP/Sirius sat radio/LoJack/V1...Winter set-up...M184s
"
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164445
The 6er forum is as enjoyable as always. Perhaps this guy should work a bit less ;)
"
....
doubt it will increase substantially, performace is only one attribute, and not the most important by a long shot....imho there is no comparison that is even warranted between our 6ers and the 3er coupe, the 3er will be a high volume car and it will be much smaller inside and out and the fit and feel is entry level BMW....when you see it on the street, it will merely blend in, unlike the stand out 6er we know and luv
the question is....how may 6er owners rather a 3er coupe? 0%
how many 3er coupe owners rather a 6er? 100%
Lord I Work Toomuch... Marquis of Manhattan
MY05 US 645ci...Stratus Grey/black leather sport seats/sports pack/premium sound L7/CWP/Sirius sat radio/LoJack/V1...Winter set-up...M184s
"
LOL. That guy has a 645. How many 645 drivers rather a 650? 100%. Maybe if that guy worked a bit harder he could afford a newer car.
LOL. That guy has a 645. How many 645 drivers rather a 650? 100%. Maybe if that guy worked a bit harder he could afford a newer car.
You gotta love the full option list in the signature... I was hoping he'd list his previous cars and their options too. Marquis of Manhattan... :lol: :lol: :lol:
http://bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=164445
The 6er forum is as enjoyable as always. Perhaps this guy should work a bit less ;)
"
....
the 3er will be a high volume car and it will be much smaller inside and out....
"
LOL... does he realize that the E46 coupe has a larger interior than his 6er? And the E92 should be larger than the E46 Ci...
I really wanted to like the 6, but can't. Its too heavy, too ugly, and too small inside. Well, I do admire the roof on the convertible - the vertical rear window that doubles as a wind blocker, along with the flying buttresses that don't ruin the roof profile when the top is up is fantastic design.
It should bring the cts-v people back in to the fold.
Did they change the Buick like interior? I realize most people hate the CTS-V interior, but at least its driver centric. :p
The V also doesn't "seem" flatter, it is flat. A pet peeve of mine - any new BMW I consider has to include $3k or so to fix the suspension b/c I simply hate body roll. So . . . bring me back into the fold? Doubtful. Maybe, but doubtful. Oh yeah, it might have more power than the outgoing 330, but it doesn't have V power. It won't sound V-like either.
On the other hand, I am done with expensive cars for the foreseeable future now that Hannah has arrived. Hopefully I will be posting about how I got 200k out of it at some point.
Having said all of that, I am looking forward to driving it. Maybe the test drive will change my mind.
killerdeck
09-08-2006, 10:39 PM
I too just got back from a test drive (more like a swing around the block twice) in a 335, manual, non-sport. I was very impressed with the ability for the car to really go! Twice I floored it in 4th gear at 50-55 mph and immediately got it up to 75. This one, without the bigger tires, really felt jumpy to me around corners and at higher speeds. The steering was not as nice as my ZHP either. I happened to find the shifter to be good, but not as nice as my short shifter in the ZHP. The clutch was a bit floaty but overall the shifting was smoother than my car. What I really liked about the car besides the pure wicked power was the exterior looks, interior full aluminum trim, and the ability for me at 6'2" to sit in the back seat without a problem. The seats are very nice and fit well, both front and back. Overall, I was impressed by the power, interior and exterior looks, and not so happy about the non-sport package tires and overly jumpy turning on them. I will go back and drive the sport package one in a few weeks.
lemming
09-09-2006, 11:35 AM
all in all, it's pretty cool news and feedback that you guys are reporting back.
i am unmoved, as my perspective is that BMW should have always given its trademark car (regardless of what certain other e63 owners think) a better power to weight ratio. i've love for this power to find its way into something with some serious cargo capacity.
My take on the 335:
It's a fast car. It really has plenty of power for most (all?) situations. Those who say that it doesn't feel turbocharged, though, are wrong--while there isn't really any *lag,* in the same way that a WRX feels like nothing is happening and then slams you in the back, the feel of the turbos is not only evident, it's the definining characteristic of the car. Power builds quickly, but it builds in a rush that is very typical of boosted engines. It's one of the best turbocharged engines I've driven, but those looking for the linear power delivery of, say, the S54 are going to be disappointed.
Is this car as fast as the E46 M3? I can't really tell, since it's been so long since I got rid of mine. It's very different in the way that it delivers power, though. The M3 howled toward the redline, and with each RPM it felt more urgent. The 335 is more like: floor it, one beat, strong shove in the back, but the power tails off toward the redline. The M3 always felt like it was egging you on; the 335 feels very competent and quick, but it doesn't feel like it is dragging you onto the floor to dance.
Lest you get the impression I wasn't impressed, let me correct that. I got back into my car and it felt like I was driving through molasses. The turbo shove is very addictive.
Other positive attirbutes: The clutch feel and takeup are much more linear and natural feeling than the bizarre E46 setup. The throttle has (compared to the E46) zero lag, and the engine loses revs admirably quickly in this world of pollution control mandated throttle hang. It's a cinch to drive smoothly.
The exhaust note is pretty cool, too, at least from inside the car. It has a rorty, raspy quality that is very distinctive (and very unlike what you'd expect from a turbo--there's no hiss). Is it like the VQ35, in that it will get tiresome after a while? Not sure, but I don't think so.
The steering wheel on the SP cars is also very nice. Perfect diameter and thickness (whoever noted that the Z4 M has a goofy wheel is right--I sat in one and it felt ridiculously small and thick).
Also, I like the sport seats with their adjustable bolsters. The red interior is nice--pity you can't get it on the 4 door.
Negatives? Well...
Dynamically, there are a couple of flaws. The steering feels slow to respond around center, and a quick wiggle of the wheel at speed results in a slow-witted wander back and forth from the front, like a drunk trying to land a punch. The E46 has a bit of this, too, but it's much more apparent in the 335Ci.* Overall body control in corners is good, in that there is little lean, but there is also a lack of communication; you'd probably get used to it, but I didn't really feel comfortable pushing too hard. Moreover, on high speed dips and rises, the car feels underdamped and a bit soft.
AND THERE IS NO LSD IN A 300 HP CAR, which strikes me as nearly unforgivable.
The coupe is a four seater with a goofy console in the center. Why? Why eliminate the option of carrying a fifth person in a pinch, or (more importantly) being able to centrally mount a child seat? There's also not a surfeit of headroom back there.
The turn signals are fucking retarded. I spent 25 percent of the drive trying to cancel the turn signals.
We all know how BMW screwed up the interior, in terms of ergonomics, but let me just hurl some vitriol (again) at the cupholders, which are super stupid. Why should I have to reach half-way across the car to get to my coffee?
Also, the shift knob, with its plastic "chrome" surround, is uncomfortably shaped and gets hot in the sun. A new shift knob, probably from a ZHP, would be mandatory.
On the exterior, the E92 is not an attractive car, to my eyes. It's too long, the back end is too generic, and the flame surfacing ends up looking slab-sided. It's bigger than an E46Ci, but seems to be less practical in terms of usable space.
So, in sum, this (or, rather, the E90 version of this) is the car that I've been asking BMW to build ever since I asked for a 340i on roadfly. It's the fastest non-M sedan BMW has ever built, to my knowledge, and it addresses the biggest dynamic hole in the 330i. At the same time, the E90 is a step backward in so many other ways from the E46. It's a shame that you have to take the bad to get the good, but BMW giveth and BMW taketh away.
Would I buy a 335 over, say, a CTS-V? The 335 will be substantially cheaper, new v. new, and will likely depreciate less. The CTS-V has more power, but the 335 has plenty, and doesn't feel at all flat-footed on the highway. At super extra legal speeds, the extra ponies in the CTS-V are probably obvious, but around town I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to notice them (especially since the CTS-V is still a couple hundred lbs. heavier than the 335). The 335 probably gets substantially better mileage, though. The 335 drives smaller than the CTS-V, but not as much as you might think, and it has a lot less space. I like the Cadillac's interior better, though the BMW has better seats and better shift feel. If they were the same money, the Cadillac would walk it, but with a higher MSRP and higher cost of ownership, I'm not sure the Cadillac brings enough extra to the table.
__________________
*Yes, it isn't badged this way, but look under the hood and you'll see this designation on the emissions label.
Well I see almost everyone has driven the car and posted their thoughts. I got my turn today and I must say JST is almost spot on with all his comments.
This car is pretty dam fast though. I drove the E46 to the dealer today and going right from the M3 to this car, back to back, I must say they are pretttty dam close. The car is much more refined but as JST said, the push is addictive.
Would I sell my E46 for it? Probably not, but I cant wait to see what a monster the new M3 is going to be seeing how fast the current base car is.
One more thing I did notice driving them back to back was the 335i felt for some reason more confining inside then my car. Not as open and airy. I suppose that can be good or bad depending on how you like your driving enviroment.
The exaust still looks like and afterthought. The pipes are not integrated well at all.
Specs. Space Grey/Coral Red 6spd - sport - premium
Interesting reviews. It seems like a great commuter/family/practical car for an enthusiast with a real sports car as a 2nd or 3rd car.:dunno:
I'll test drive the E90 335i when it becomes available. But I wan more of a sportscar than the zhp is as my next car, so I feel this turbo 3er likely won't cut it on its own.
As I've said before though, if I can justify 3 cars, I would not mind owning an E90 335i sedan (preferably with a zhp-like treatment) many years down the road to replace my E46.
Other positive attirbutes: The clutch feel and takeup are much more linear and natural feeling than the bizarre E46 setup. The throttle has (compared to the E46) zero lag, and the engine loses revs admirably quickly in this world of pollution control mandated throttle hang. It's a cinch to drive smoothly.
These were precisely the things that I first noticed when I recently drove my uncle's new '07 525i (manual trans), as mentioned in a previous thread of mine http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=7848. Between the clutch and throttle, and ignoring road feel, it was a pure joy to drive the car. Rowing the gears was so easy, predictable, so enjoyable. My IS250 has quickly become very much the exact opposite in these regards, and spends a lot of time sitting in the garage as a result. BMW really did fix the weird quirks that were so prominent in the E46.
I will not be test driving the 335i (coupe, or upcoming sedan) for quite some time, because I'm pretty sure I wouldn't return home without having ordered one for myself.
The turn signals are fucking retarded. I spent 25 percent of the drive trying to cancel the turn signals.
I spent 75% of my time trying to get the 525i's signals to stay on. :-)
The turn signals are fucking retarded. I spent 25 percent of the drive trying to cancel the turn signals.
I hate to say it guys, but get used to electronic turn signals... And you will easily get used to them after driving a car with them for more than an hour. We all know BMW introduced them on the E65, and now they are in almost every line (all except the Z4 and X3). I've had a couple Opel and VAG rental cars in Europe that have them also -- so its not just BMW...
Here's my take: I first used them on a weekend road trip in my stepdad's E65 a couple years ago. I had problems for the first 5-6 times I used them. After that, they started to click. When I got back to my car a couple days later, my car honestly felt outdated. I drove my mom's E90 about a week ago, and never once had a problem (and its only the 2nd time I've driven that car in the 15 months she's had it...). The only trick to remember is that for a quick lane change, you only need to give them a short push up or down -- and they will flash 3-4 times and stop. For turns, push them further, and they will stay on until you complete the turn. If you need to cancel them, a short push in the opposite direction is all that is needed (which is very similar to the motion needed to cancel a mechanical stalk that gets stuck...)
Now back on topic... I think I need to test the 335...
lemming
09-10-2006, 11:45 AM
My take on the 335:
It's a fast car. It really has plenty of power for most (all?) situations. Those who say that it doesn't feel turbocharged, though, are wrong--while there isn't really any *lag,* in the same way that a WRX feels like nothing is happening and then slams you in the back, the feel of the turbos is not only evident, it's the definining characteristic of the car. Power builds quickly, but it builds in a rush that is very typical of boosted engines. It's one of the best turbocharged engines I've driven, but those looking for the linear power delivery of, say, the S54 are going to be disappointed.
Is this car as fast as the E46 M3? I can't really tell, since it's been so long since I got rid of mine. It's very different in the way that it delivers power, though. The M3 howled toward the redline, and with each RPM it felt more urgent. The 335 is more like: floor it, one beat, strong shove in the back, but the power tails off toward the redline. The M3 always felt like it was egging you on; the 335 feels very competent and quick, but it doesn't feel like it is dragging you onto the floor to dance.
Lest you get the impression I wasn't impressed, let me correct that. I got back into my car and it felt like I was driving through molasses. The turbo shove is very addictive.
Other positive attirbutes: The clutch feel and takeup are much more linear and natural feeling than the bizarre E46 setup. The throttle has (compared to the E46) zero lag, and the engine loses revs admirably quickly in this world of pollution control mandated throttle hang. It's a cinch to drive smoothly.
The exhaust note is pretty cool, too, at least from inside the car. It has a rorty, raspy quality that is very distinctive (and very unlike what you'd expect from a turbo--there's no hiss). Is it like the VQ35, in that it will get tiresome after a while? Not sure, but I don't think so.
The steering wheel on the SP cars is also very nice. Perfect diameter and thickness (whoever noted that the Z4 M has a goofy wheel is right--I sat in one and it felt ridiculously small and thick).
Also, I like the sport seats with their adjustable bolsters. The red interior is nice--pity you can't get it on the 4 door.
Negatives? Well...
Dynamically, there are a couple of flaws. The steering feels slow to respond around center, and a quick wiggle of the wheel at speed results in a slow-witted wander back and forth from the front, like a drunk trying to land a punch. The E46 has a bit of this, too, but it's much more apparent in the 335Ci.* Overall body control in corners is good, in that there is little lean, but there is also a lack of communication; you'd probably get used to it, but I didn't really feel comfortable pushing too hard. Moreover, on high speed dips and rises, the car feels underdamped and a bit soft.
AND THERE IS NO LSD IN A 300 HP CAR, which strikes me as nearly unforgivable.
The coupe is a four seater with a goofy console in the center. Why? Why eliminate the option of carrying a fifth person in a pinch, or (more importantly) being able to centrally mount a child seat? There's also not a surfeit of headroom back there.
The turn signals are fucking retarded. I spent 25 percent of the drive trying to cancel the turn signals.
We all know how BMW screwed up the interior, in terms of ergonomics, but let me just hurl some vitriol (again) at the cupholders, which are super stupid. Why should I have to reach half-way across the car to get to my coffee?
Also, the shift knob, with its plastic "chrome" surround, is uncomfortably shaped and gets hot in the sun. A new shift knob, probably from a ZHP, would be mandatory.
On the exterior, the E92 is not an attractive car, to my eyes. It's too long, the back end is too generic, and the flame surfacing ends up looking slab-sided. It's bigger than an E46Ci, but seems to be less practical in terms of usable space.
So, in sum, this (or, rather, the E90 version of this) is the car that I've been asking BMW to build ever since I asked for a 340i on roadfly. It's the fastest non-M sedan BMW has ever built, to my knowledge, and it addresses the biggest dynamic hole in the 330i. At the same time, the E90 is a step backward in so many other ways from the E46. It's a shame that you have to take the bad to get the good, but BMW giveth and BMW taketh away.
Would I buy a 335 over, say, a CTS-V? The 335 will be substantially cheaper, new v. new, and will likely depreciate less. The CTS-V has more power, but the 335 has plenty, and doesn't feel at all flat-footed on the highway. At super extra legal speeds, the extra ponies in the CTS-V are probably obvious, but around town I'd bet you'd be hard pressed to notice them (especially since the CTS-V is still a couple hundred lbs. heavier than the 335). The 335 probably gets substantially better mileage, though. The 335 drives smaller than the CTS-V, but not as much as you might think, and it has a lot less space. I like the Cadillac's interior better, though the BMW has better seats and better shift feel. If they were the same money, the Cadillac would walk it, but with a higher MSRP and higher cost of ownership, I'm not sure the Cadillac brings enough extra to the table.
__________________
*Yes, it isn't badged this way, but look under the hood and you'll see this designation on the emissions label.
that's a great and insightful writeup. thank you.
but now i have zero motivation to go to test drive one. there cannot be any question that it has a great motor, but this writeup (the others aren't really grounded in neanderthal-ism enough) in addition to the Roundel review still leave me wondering why on many points. the why of the weight. the why of the retrenching (in an ironic way) of the styling paradigm.
remember when the criticism was that all of the 3,5 and 7s looked to much alike? now they do all over again. in a stupid, superfluous way.
in an academic way, i've disagreed with BMW over almost everything in the past 5 years and the 335i is more of that. i argued that the 3.2litre S54 M3 was stupid because it needed 3.5 to 3.6litres. BMW said i was wrong (iron block and all). i said the z3 replacement needed to pay more homage to the z8. they said i was stupid. i thought the e39 was the epitome of midsize luxury. once again. i'm stupid. the e60 has more cues from the Camry than it does the e39. the new M5/m6 battleships went with cylinders instead of displacement. i said the cars needed displacement to fight the curb weight. guess who is "wrong" again?
and now i said that the straight six needs cubic inches instead of turbocharging --guess i'm wrong again. it's unfortunate that almost the rest of the industry mirrors my sentiments.
to me, this 3.0TT (in terms of power) is sort of like when Microsoft decided to move to the GUI interface. it was a big deal for PC people, but the rest of the computing world was like, ".....wow. welcome to the present era."
zeroday
09-10-2006, 12:17 PM
that's a great and insightful writeup. thank you.
but now i have zero motivation to go to test drive one. there cannot be any question that it has a great motor, but this writeup (the others aren't really grounded in neanderthal-ism enough) in addition to the Roundel review still leave me wondering why on many points. the why of the weight. the why of the retrenching (in an ironic way) of the styling paradigm.
remember when the criticism was that all of the 3,5 and 7s looked to much alike? now they do all over again. in a stupid, superfluous way.
in an academic way, i've disagreed with BMW over almost everything in the past 5 years and the 335i is more of that. i argued that the 3.2litre S54 M3 was stupid because it needed 3.5 to 3.6litres. BMW said i was wrong (iron block and all). i said the z3 replacement needed to pay more homage to the z8. they said i was stupid. i thought the e39 was the epitome of midsize luxury. once again. i'm stupid. the e60 has more cues from the Camry than it does the e39. the new M5/m6 battleships went with cylinders instead of displacement. i said the cars needed displacement to fight the curb weight. guess who is "wrong" again?
and now i said that the straight six needs cubic inches instead of turbocharging --guess i'm wrong again. it's unfortunate that almost the rest of the industry mirrors my sentiments.
to me, this 3.0TT (in terms of power) is sort of like when Microsoft decided to move to the GUI interface. it was a big deal for PC people, but the rest of the computing world was like, ".....wow. welcome to the present era."
You drive a GTO right? The irony of it all astounds me. :D
lemming
09-10-2006, 01:20 PM
You drive a GTO right? The irony of it all astounds me. :D
yup.
lemming
09-10-2006, 01:21 PM
yup.
does it astound as much as naivete?
;)
You drive a GTO right? The irony of it all astounds me. :D
He does ???? I did not know that. Specs?
I saw a brand new one yesterday loaded that was kind of a light green color. It even had the optional 18's. I must say in that combo it looks ok.
After all the awful reviews I never drove one but I bet you can get on of the last LS2 cars for really cheap.
Any thoughts on yours?
lemming
09-10-2006, 03:41 PM
He does ???? I did not know that. Specs?
I saw a brand new one yesterday loaded that was kind of a light green color. It ever had the optional 18's. I must say it that combo it looks ok.
After all the awful reviews I never drove one but I bet you can get on of the last LS2 cars for really cheap.
Any thoughts on yours?
don't believe everything you read on the internet. ;)
don't believe everything you read on the internet. ;)
I'll spare him.
lemming owns a CTS-V (and a C6Z06), not a GTO.;)
zeroday
09-10-2006, 05:03 PM
does it astound as much as naivete?
;)
Is it naive to assume that you have a GTO considering your avatar text says 'fancy monaro'? If so then guilty.:dunno: :dunno:
Trying to figure out how a CTSV or a C6zo6 is a fancy Holden Monaro unless you're talking about the ls2 or something......ah nevermind. I just realized I really don't care. LOL.
that's a great and insightful writeup. thank you.
but now i have zero motivation to go to test drive one. there cannot be any question that it has a great motor, but this writeup (the others aren't really grounded in neanderthal-ism enough) in addition to the Roundel review still leave me wondering why on many points. the why of the weight. the why of the retrenching (in an ironic way) of the styling paradigm.
remember when the criticism was that all of the 3,5 and 7s looked to much alike? now they do all over again. in a stupid, superfluous way.
in an academic way, i've disagreed with BMW over almost everything in the past 5 years and the 335i is more of that. i argued that the 3.2litre S54 M3 was stupid because it needed 3.5 to 3.6litres. BMW said i was wrong (iron block and all). i said the z3 replacement needed to pay more homage to the z8. they said i was stupid. i thought the e39 was the epitome of midsize luxury. once again. i'm stupid. the e60 has more cues from the Camry than it does the e39. the new M5/m6 battleships went with cylinders instead of displacement. i said the cars needed displacement to fight the curb weight. guess who is "wrong" again?
and now i said that the straight six needs cubic inches instead of turbocharging --guess i'm wrong again. it's unfortunate that almost the rest of the industry mirrors my sentiments.
to me, this 3.0TT (in terms of power) is sort of like when Microsoft decided to move to the GUI interface. it was a big deal for PC people, but the rest of the computing world was like, ".....wow. welcome to the present era."
Actually, I think you should at least drive one. Now's a good time, since most (all?) of the dealers seem to have received manual tranny 335s as demonstrators, and it's usually pretty hard to find a stick on the lot to drive.
If nothing else, I am interested in any comparisons that you and/or rwg might have to your daily drivers. Purely for selfish reasons.
I'll spare him.
lemming owns a CTS-V (and a C6Z06), not a GTO.;)
Ahhh ok fine, so I am not that much a mudgeon that I know what everone drives!! =P
Thanks FC.
lemming
09-10-2006, 08:57 PM
Ahhh ok fine, so I am not that much a mudgeon that I know what everone drives!! =P
Thanks FC.
the Monaro actually rides on the same general chassis as the CTS and GTO. and the new Zeta platform (new Camaro, just released Holden) is actually a more modern Sigma with a better appreciation for production costs and manufacturing efficiencies.
but this is tangential.
i'm still lukewarm on the 335 given JeSTer's review. but if FC was planning on going, i'd meet up with him (and Zach) to try the car out. from the pictures, the interior of the 335 look okay. not the e36/8 sort of driver-centrism that i'd prefer, but well done.
zcasavant
09-10-2006, 08:59 PM
the Monaro actually rides on the same general chassis as the CTS and GTO. and the new Zeta platform (new Camaro, just released Holden) is actually a more modern Sigma with a better appreciation for production costs and manufacturing efficiencies.
but this is tangential.
i'm still lukewarm on the 335 given JeSTer's review. but if FC was planning on going, i'd meet up with him (and Zach) to try the car out. from the pictures, the interior of the 335 look okay. not the e36/8 sort of driver-centrism that i'd prefer, but well done.
I had planned on going to see Fil at his dealership, but maybe it makes more sense to go here. I'd like to find a place where we can drive the 335i back to back with an e46 M3. :eeps:
lemming
09-10-2006, 09:03 PM
I had planned on going to see Fil at his dealership, but maybe it makes more sense to go here. I'd like to find a place where we can drive the 335i back to back with an e46 M3. :eeps:
you thinkin' the special herb, FMWest or Gallery (Norwood)?
zcasavant
09-10-2006, 09:10 PM
you thinkin' the special herb, FMWest or Gallery (Norwood)?
Not herb. I hate that guy and there's nowhere to drive the cars in that area.
I had planned on going to see Fil at his dealership, but maybe it makes more sense to go here. I'd like to find a place where we can drive the 335i back to back with an e46 M3. :eeps:
I actually felt the 335 leaned less in the corners then my E46. The ride is more forgiving and the power seems close to the same although delivered in a much different manner.
Chip this car and it WILL be faster then the M3.
The aftermarket will have a field day with this car.
How much do you think an aftermarket LSD will cost?
zcasavant
09-11-2006, 12:35 AM
I actually felt the 335 leaned less in the corners then my E46. The ride is more forgiving and the power seems close to the same although delivered in a much different manner.
Chip this car and it WILL be faster then the M3.
The aftermarket will have a field day with this car.
How much do you think an aftermarket LSD will cost?
I drive an e36 M3 now. To make a 335i acceptable, I'd have to get rid of the tires (and probably wheels) immediately. Since my M3 has nice koni shocks and H&R sport springs, I have a feeling the 335i will feel pretty soft.
Aside from newness and the availability of 4 doors, I'm not convinced that the e90 335i will satisfy me as much as the e46 M3.
We'll see, I guess.
EDIT: An LSD will be imperative, if only so it goes at all in the winter. :rolleyes:
Aside from newness and the availability of 4 doors, I'm not convinced that the e90 335i will satisfy me as much as the e46 M3.
Completely OT: I had just washed my car after a couple of months and it looked awesome. Went shopping and ended up parking right next to a ZCP Interlagos E46 M3. Nice looking car.
Together, they most definitely are the last two prettiest cars available from BMW. It was a photo-worthy scene.
zcasavant
09-11-2006, 09:14 AM
Completely OT: I had just washed my car after a couple of months and it looked awesome. Went shopping and ended up parking right next to a ZCP Interlagos E46 M3. Nice looking car.
Together, they most definitely are the last two prettiest cars available from BMW. It was a photo-worthy scene.
I don't think I'd get the ZCP. If I'm going to trade my e36 in for a luxury car, I want my damn cruise control and stereo controls on the steering wheel.
lemming
09-11-2006, 09:19 AM
I don't think I'd get the ZCP. If I'm going to trade my e36 in for a luxury car, I want my damn cruise control and stereo controls on the steering wheel.
if it was a weekend day, i'd make the time to go down to see 'Fil with you guys, if you'd want. it's not like it's all that far to inskipper chipper motors.
my curiosity is piqued about the 335i, but not enough to go by myself.
if it was a weekend day, i'd make the time to go down to see 'Fil with you guys, if you'd want. it's not like it's all that far to inskipper chipper motors.
my curiosity is piqued about the 335i, but not enough to go by myself.
I'm game whenever you guys want (just about). You are the ones with the tricky schedules.
:-P
Completely OT: I had just washed my car after a couple of months and it looked awesome. Went shopping and ended up parking right next to a ZCP Interlagos E46 M3. Nice looking car.
Together, they most definitely are the last two prettiest cars available from BMW. It was a photo-worthy scene.
Agreed, but I hold out hope as it seems BMW has learned the error of its ways and is starting to turn things around a little.
I am curious about the rumored MZ2 with a 300hp turbo 4. Maybe this is the same engine that will make it into the M2 if we get that stateside.
Sunny day, demo car, clear back roads, turns etc. :) So a fairer spirited driving comparison than my original post (nighttime, brand new car).
The M3 didn't feel nearly as flat as I remembered it though it seemed to have less lean than the zhp. The power delivery was, as we all know, very rpm based. In some ways, the car felt like a grown s2000 (or two). When beat on, the normally dull/stiff steering/shifter controls all came together for a nice experience. I'm used to the platform from my zhp so I found it east to get to the edge (well not THE edge, but my edge given the conditions).
The salesman drove the e92 with reckless abandon and I could see how fast and grippy it was. However I did find the lean a bit much as a passenger. He did a sweet 0-100-0 in impressive succession and we switched again. I accelerated a bit and pushed it a bit but then got tired. Perhaps it was because I wasn't dialed in to the chassis... After the m3, it felt modern but remote, soft and somewhat uninspired. I just didn't feel like beating on the 335 in the same way. It was smooth, easy to shift etc. but it just didn't sound or feel like it wanted more. I pretty much drove it straight back to the dealership. The car would need an exhaust/suspension at least to invoke some desire in me to be fast. I don't get ppl who go on about its sound - there is none. :eek: I stand by my original pros of power, ride, grip etc. I'll get it if I ever need to commute in the suburbs. I guess that's what most people want out of bmw.
As it is the car is very far from requiring a limited slip for me. I'm just not feeling it for pushing it that far. For a carmudgeon, major mods are in order. Throw in a chip while at it.
lemming
09-13-2006, 11:22 PM
Sunny day, demo car, clear back roads, turns etc. :) So a fairer spirited driving comparison than my original post (nighttime, brand new car).
The M3 didn't feel nearly as flat as I remembered it though it seemed to have less lean than the zhp. The power delivery was, as we all know, very rpm based. In some ways, the car felt like a grown s2000 (or two). When beat on, the normally dull/stiff steering/shifter controls all came together for a nice experience. I'm used to the platform from my zhp so I found it east to get to the edge (well not THE edge, but my edge given the conditions).
The salesman drove the e92 with reckless abandon and I could see how fast and grippy it was. However I did find the lean a bit much as a passenger. He did a sweet 0-100-0 in impressive succession and we switched again. I accelerated a bit and pushed it a bit but then got tired. Perhaps it was because I wasn't dialed in to the chassis... After the m3, it felt modern but remote, soft and somewhat uninspired. I just didn't feel like beating on the 335 in the same way. It was smooth, easy to shift etc. but it just didn't sound or feel like it wanted more. I pretty much drove it straight back to the dealership. The car would need an exhaust/suspension at least to invoke some desire in me to be fast. I don't get ppl who go on about its sound - there is none. :eek: I stand by my original pros of power, ride, grip etc. I'll get it if I ever need to commute in the suburbs. I guess that's what most people want out of bmw.
As it is the car is very far from requiring a limited slip for me. I'm just not feeling it for pushing it that far. For a carmudgeon, major mods are in order. Throw in a chip while at it.
and in BMW's reckoning, that's probably fine, 'qu.
the car is aimed more for their 80th percentile demographic, don't forget, because the top 20% still probably will wait and opt for the e92 m3....but it will cost a pretty penny.
I was planning on not driving the 335 for awhile simply b/c I can't get past the interior, but I will go for a spin to give a V comparison. I am intrigued by the motor, although the lack of an LSD is a serious problem for me. Maybe I can make time this weekend.
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