View Full Version : Not impressed by 997 (or am I not getting it?)
Admittedly, it wasn't the greatest test drive. Rush hour traffic, stressed out suburbanites (somehow I find suburbia traffic more dangerous than good old NYC) unfamiliar roads, merges...
Anyway, this was an 05 with 14k on the clock. Very smooth, easy to drive. Shifter not satisfying, almost felt like a vw.. Quieter than what I remember my 01 996 to be. Opposite to many reviews that I read that claim the 997 is visceral. Quite fast, certainly fast enough for me, no need for the S. Light touch steering... But the kicker: two years of two zhp's and I've completely forgotten how the 911 feels. I wasn't pushing and I felt like I didn't know how to. The front was so light, I felt like I could point it anywhere but it wouldn't matter as the back was boss... It seems to ride better than my 01, smoother and better built, but just feels weird. OTOH, I've decided that if I get a watercooled (911/box/cayS) it has to be 2005+ if nothing else for the seats. They've fixed a major gripe of mine.
I guess I will drive another and if I still don't get it, that's one car off my list.
Of course I'm really dialed in to the zhp. I know it's braking, turning capabilities as well as shift points. Point me to any ramp and I can start having fun (softness and body lean notwithstanding). I found it easier to do that with a 350z (although it is ridiculously slow compared to the 911). The 911 was sooo different, I was just lost and confused on the turns. :dunno: So I didn't push it (or my luck).
Me thinks a mid-engine test drive is also necessary. Perhaps I should stick to what I know: front engine, rwd. I will update as I get more test drives in.
lemming
09-07-2006, 10:30 AM
if the front end isn't light and hopping up and down through dynamic maneuvers, it's not a 911.
but people never stop giving the car accolades.
the 911 takes a totally different driving style, which is part of the appeal, i think. i personally never warmed up to it, but there are a legion of diehards that spit at me and say otherwise.
if the front end isn't light and hopping up and down through dynamic maneuvers, it's not a 911.
but people never stop giving the car accolades.
That's exactly what I felt! I'm so sad that 2 years of 50/50 wiped out all memories of how to enjoy turns in one :(
lemming
09-07-2006, 11:25 AM
there is no question that there is something pure about driving on a closed road course in a 911. because it is so different, mastery or novice-type mastery (me) of the car is very rewarding. that you have to hit a corner slower but can get on the gas so early is thrilling. the distribution clearly favors excellent braking, too.
but it's all relative.
Sharp11
09-07-2006, 01:04 PM
Of course I'm really dialed in to the zhp. I know it's braking, turning capabilities as well as shift points. Point me to any ramp and I can start having fun (softness and body lean notwithstanding). I found it easier to do that with a 350z (although it is ridiculously slow compared to the 911). The 911 was sooo different, I was just lost and confused on the turns. :dunno: So I didn't push it (or my luck).
Me thinks a mid-engine test drive is also necessary. Perhaps I should stick to what I know: front engine, rwd. I will update as I get more test drives in.
You need to go back and drive the Z4 3.0si ;)
Ed
You need to go back and drive the Z4 3.0si ;)
Ed
I know I absolutely loved how the si drove. My purposes are having fun with a spirited weekend drive, some comfort for NYC and a cone or two per year.
The reasons against are that I don't love its looks and that I have enough bmw's (if I keep the zhp). If I don't keep the zhp, I can say I have had enough bmws...
Haven't driven the mz4 but interpolating from my many m3 drives and the z4 3.0si, I expect to not like it as much (got flamed for it plenty). My discussion of why I prefer to 3.0si to the m was even rehashed in a thread on how bmw is going too soft :lol:
I will be looking at a 335i tonight.
Sharp11
09-07-2006, 01:42 PM
I know I absolutely loved how the si drove. My purposes are having fun with a spirited weekend drive, some comfort for NYC and a cone or two per year.
I hope I'm not being redundant, but have you tried the MX5 (NC Miata)?
It seems to meet your criteria perfectly and it's cheap.
It also has a very slick, new-for-07, retractable hardtop (which only adds about 40lbs).
Ed
John V
09-07-2006, 01:45 PM
I hope I'm not being redundant, but have you tried the MX5 (NC Miata)?
It seems to meet your criteria perfectly and it's cheap.
It also has a very slick, new-for-07, retractable hardtop (which only adds about 40lbs).
Ed
I drove a sport-package, 6-speed MX5 a couple weeks back. Having driven earlier Miatas (a 1991 and an '02) it was disappointing. It was very soft. Softer than an E46 soft. :ack:
Everything else about it was really slick, though.
I drove a sport-package, 6-speed MX5 a couple weeks back. Having driven earlier Miatas (a 1991 and an '02) it was disappointing. It was very soft. Softer than an E46 soft. :ack:
Everything else about it was really slick, though.
No question. It needs a real suspension.
that you have to hit a corner slower but can get on the gas so early is thrilling. the distribution clearly favors excellent braking, too.
True. It's going to take me a little while to build up faith in believing that the front end is actually touching the ground.
I hope I'm not being redundant, but have you tried the MX5 (NC Miata)?
It seems to meet your criteria perfectly and it's cheap.
It also has a very slick, new-for-07, retractable hardtop (which only adds about 40lbs).
Ed
The retractable hardtop would be very convenient for me. I drove it a bit two weeks ago at zoom zoom. I didn't push but it didn't inspire me. Nice shifting and steering. The whole minute that I did drive it, I couldn't focus on the handling between learning the course and hating the engine. But then I got to do the same course in an rx-8 :D
Sharp11
09-07-2006, 01:56 PM
No question. It needs a real suspension.
Actually, that might be its problem, that it does have a real suspension - there's a lot of wheel travel - a lot of the guys on Miata.net do the suspension upgrade almost immediately.
However, in equ's case, seeing as NYC driving is a priority, the standard MX5 suspension could be a plus.
Ed
Sharp11
09-07-2006, 01:57 PM
But then I got to do the same course in an rx-8 :D
Oh yes, I recall your write-up now - so when you gettin' the Rx8? :)
Ed
Oh yes, I recall your write-up now - so when you gettin' the Rx8? :)
Ed
Well, that's how this whole shopping/test driving madness started all over again. The rx-8 probably is a good one-car compromise for me. I'm a little concerned about it not being fast enough in straight line (I know it doesn't matter between the cones but I'm quite used to beating traffic at this point) and missing the 330 luxo-ness and quality on long trips. I've almost convinced myself that I can be the one nut in NYC that has two cars (even though my total driving/year is about 8,000 miles, most of it car shopping :? ).
In a one car scenario:
1. keep zhp. I'm dialed in, good color/interior, ipod/nav are set up, etc. etc. However I feel like it's about to drop in value and I'm getting a fair/decent price for it now. I've also driven nothing but 2 zhps in two years.
2. e46m3. Nice straight-line and good space but don't like its ride & heavy drive so much. Also may drop a lot in value this coming year.
3. rx-8 (discussed above) I should have bought this coming out of my audi instead of porsche/zhp back in 2004. I wouldn't have been so bmw spoiled.
4. 350z. Somehow live with 2 seats, not so practical, not as communicative as a zhp, a little faster and lower CoG, why am I even bothering? There's sth I like about leaving the luxo marque for a more blue collar throaty nissan - to be regretted in a matter of weeks probably.
5. 335i? I think I'd rather get this in sedan form.
In a two car scenario, I'd keep the zhp and also get a
1. s2000. Makes the most sense as with a hardtop it won't require separate garaging. Love its purity, have to get used to the engine and the back feeling unsettled a bit.
2. boxS (untested though $$$)
3. 997 (another test necessary though not loving it so far) Not so $$$ because I don't expect a lot of depreciation on it.
4. z4 3.0si ? (yet another bmw and $$$)
5. mx-5 (s2000 instead but I probably should test drive at dealer)
6. 993? Cuter and with more character but I didn't even like the drive of the 997.
Off the list for now
1. CayS (overpriced though I may test drive soon)
2. Elise (overpriced and I'm not so track focused)
3. Any 996/986. (Not loving the seats/interior. I also had one already)
4. Atom (too much effort, needs a real garage)
I really should be buying a house first (though I can't afford one in NYC) and it's much more fun to keep shopping for cars.
Will the C4 feel more planted in the front? Should I try it?
If you want veiceral, only he GT cars will do.
You can pick up high mile (high teens) 996 GT3's now for low 70's.
Once you have tried the GT cars, you will never go back.
True, but that's such overkill for the NYC area for someone who doesn't go to the track. I'm sure it's perfect in LA. Out here, there is only one kind of yellow car. In fact, when you give a ride to someone chances are they haven't been in a non-taxi car in months. At first they are surprised by the lack of divider and the music and pleasantness of it all. They all say sth like, this is nice, I should get a car in the city. Then they go back to being new yorkers and asked to be dropped off on the left side of the street AFTER the light :lol:
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