E28s and E34s am I nuts?

[hfh330i]

My lease-end on the ZHP is quickly approaching. (Feb 2007). I've been entertaining the thought of picking up an older 5er (E28/E34) for a DD; most likely a 535i in either model. I've done some searches here and there. Can any of you give me some pros/cons of E28 or E34 ownership that I should be aware of? I know about the Nakasil V8 issue in the E34 (if I found a 530/540). Estimates of annual maintenance, problem areas, etc. would be helpful.

I'm trying to gauge the costs of operating/maintaining a old 5er vs. leasing a 335i (sedan). Of course hanging on to the zhp would/could be an option too.

[dan]

yes

[FC]

I'd hang on to the ZHP if you still like it. If you feel you need a change and the money isn't an issue, I'd go with a 335i.

[equ]

I love how there are several ppl on this forum with sensible 330i's who are always looking for sth else. The car does most everything ok but yet leaves their owners wanting... Yes it could be better with more torque, better settled front and a clutch with some feel. But that's not the reason, it's because it doesn't display any character. Basically it's not that "cool".

I'm a primo example of the above mentality. For my needs (low miles in NYC with a few hwy trips a year), the 330i is perfect (especially in zhp form). However the rx8 is cool for originality and handling, the ///M is cool for its power and the e30's are cool for their retroness and I keep thinking about these cars. :dunno:

[clyde]

I wouldn't worry about Nikasil any more at this point. The cars that still have them but are running okay are unlikely to develop (related) problems in the future. With rare exceptions, all of them that were going to fail should have failed by now. The ones that I would be most wary of are ones with mileage under 50k...but even then, the sulfer content in today's gas is much, much lower than when the engines were failing.

[iateyourcheese]

Why are all these ZHPs going up for sale? Why can't you guys wait a few years so I can pick up a 'mudgeon-maintained ZHP when I'm ready?

[hfh330i]

I wouldn't worry about Nikasil any more at this point. The cars that still have them but are running okay are unlikely to develop (related) problems in the future. With rare exceptions, all of them that were going to fail should have failed by now. The ones that I would be most wary of are ones with mileage under 50k...but even then, the sulfer content in today's gas is much, much lower than when the engines were failing.

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=207900288&dealer_id=46011943&car_year=1995&mod_bookmark_id=null&search_type=both&num_records=25&make=BMW&distance=0&model=530I&address=77025&certified=&advanced=&max_price=&bkms=1157123153613&min_price=&end_year=1996&start_year=1981&lang=en&cardist=1378

[zach]

Why are all these ZHPs going up for sale? Why can't you guys wait a few years so I can pick up a 'mudgeon-maintained ZHP when I'm ready?

After your current car, I don't think you'll ever be ready for an e46 zhp.

[FC]

Why are all these ZHPs going up for sale? Why can't you guys wait a few years so I can pick up a 'mudgeon-maintained ZHP when I'm ready?

I may be selling mine in ~'09.:dunno:

[Plaz]

I love how there are several ppl on this forum with sensible 330i's who are always looking for sth else. The car does most everything ok but yet leaves their owners wanting... Yes it could be better with more torque, better settled front and a clutch with some feel. But that's not the reason, it's because it doesn't display any character. Basically it's not that "cool".

I don't feel that way about my 330. :dunno:

[Doug]

I've got both and they are cool cars

[hfh330i]

I've got both and they are cool cars

Doug, could you elaborate?

[iateyourcheese]

After your current car, I don't think you'll ever be ready for an e46 zhp.

I'm not saying that I would get rid of the e36, but a ZHP might be a much nicer daily driver in a few years.

[TD]

I still occasionally ponder the idea of an E34 (or even E28) but then remember that neither would act/feel any newer than the E36 iateyourcheese now has.

So I'm pretty much not going to have a used BMW until I can reasonably consider having one as a third car/toy. I really don't care to have a car that old again as strictly a daily driver.

[Doug]

Doug, could you elaborate?


Fun to drive, they have "personality" unlike the cookie cutter current vehicles.
Better road feel, they are not as "civilized" as the current cars. Yes, the current crop of cars are faster but there's more to driving enjoyment than pure speed (IMHO)

[hfh330i]

Fun to drive, they have "personality" unlike the cookie cutter current vehicles.
Better road feel, they are not as "civilized" as the current cars. Yes, the current crop of cars are faster but there's more to driving enjoyment than pure speed (IMHO)

Exactly why I like them. What I don't want to do is buy one for $10 grand, and spend $3000/year to maintain it. On one hand I like the design/character of older 5 series cars, but if the “value” is lost on the expense of keeping it on the road then what’s the point. I understand that things break, and a grand here or there is one thing (that’s a couple of months payments on a 335i).

The ultimate goal here is to free up $300-400/month in income; 3 ½ years of infertility treatment is starting to take its toll.

[lip277]

Fun to drive, they have "personality" unlike the cookie cutter current vehicles.
Better road feel, they are not as "civilized" as the current cars. Yes, the current crop of cars are faster but there's more to driving enjoyment than pure speed (IMHO)

No you are not nuts - not at all.

What Doug said is my opinion as well (as most of you around here know.... hehe)

Picking a good example (of either an E28/E34/E38/Ewhatever) is the main thing to concentrate on I'd say.

I've have had my 740i now for two years and have had only one thing go 'wrong' - fuel pump. And even that was on a 'maintenance list' of things I was going to replace anyway. It just beat me to the punch.

Insurance is also cheaper.
One additional thing to consider.. if it is an issue for you ...
The older cars tend to be easier for DIY'ers to work on. Documentation (formal BMW manuals or Bentley) or web pages of fellow car nuts are much more prevelant on these older machines.

That - I also think the older cars have a character that the newer cars lack. I'm not talking about how they drive. Just how they 'are'. It is also a reason my wife is really really resisting getting rid of her Mercedes. She LOVES that car. Even when offered something newer and sportier - she really appreciates her 'old lady' 420SEL.

Yes - I'm actually thinking of keeping it. That would mean six cars for us.

:ack:

[Sharp11]

Exactly why I like them. What I don't want to do is buy one for $10 grand, and spend $3000/year to maintain it. On one hand I like the design/character of older 5 series cars, but if the “value” is lost on the expense of keeping it on the road then what’s the point. I understand that things break, and a grand here or there is one thing (that’s a couple of months payments on a 335i).

The ultimate goal here is to free up $300-400/month in income; 3 ½ years of infertility treatment is starting to take its toll.

I'm sure you've thought of this, but keep in mind any E34 is going to be at least 10 years or so old and all the normal issues that can plaque older cars will be there; dried out weather stripping, seats that are beginning to sag, unreliable electrics, fading paint, rust.......and who knows what else.

Other than that, these are great cars, so enjoy - you can always change your mind and get another new car, that's the great thing about cars, there'll always be a car for you to buy, always!

Ed

[Doug]

My E34 has 260,000 miles on it (1990 car) doesn't burn a drop of oil. I can do all my own maint so the few things it's needed (brakes etc) are inexpensive.

[blee]

I sold my SVT Focus about a month ago and replaced it with a '92 525i 5-speed. I was looking for a cheap DD, and while the E34 was neither the cheapest nor most practical choice, I'm happy with it.

If you're looking to spend that much money on one of these, you'll be able to find a very nice model. I bought mine for $3500. It has 110k on the clock, the suspension is worn, there's a touch of rust starting to show on the door bottoms, and there are a few other little issues. But the engine runs smooth and strong (as strong as can be expected for 189hp in a 3400-lb car, anyway), and it has that elder-Bimmer feeling. Right down to that sweet leather smell. I was apprehensive at first about having to rely on such an old car, but I don't think I'll have many problems at all. Maintenance and repairs aren't as cheap as they'd be with a Honda, but parts prices are not outlandish and most things are very easy to DIY. It's amazing how large the engine bay is, almost like it was made for a V8. :D

[armaq]

I've driven a E28 M5 (Euro model) and LOVED it. It felt similar to my E36 M3/4, only rawer in every way. I could just feel how the car was working mechanically. To me, the E28 M5 still represents the very essence of a BMW sports sedan to this date. It's the car that I have to own once in my lifetime.

If you are looking for a E28 DD and it doesn't have to be special, a 88 535 5spd is probably a better choice. In that case however, you might as well forget about E28 all together. A 93 535im is probably the most reliable car BMW has ever made. That big six can last forever.

[hfh330i]

Thanks guys!

[hfh330i]

Well the ZHP must have heard me talking about her replacement. Last night on the way home from dinner she stalled, I was able to restart but the SES light came on and there was a clatter coming from the engine bay at idle. :ack:

[rumatt]

I don't feel that way about my 330. :dunno:

It does seem that a lot of people do though.

I went through the phase, but grew out of it.

[hfh330i]

Well the ZHP must have heard me talking about her replacement. Last night on the way home from dinner she stalled, I was able to restart but the SES light came on and there was a clatter coming from the engine bay at idle. :ack:

VANOS no bueno.

[iateyourcheese]

VANOS no bueno.

BMW has never had luck with VANOS, have they?

[hfh330i]

BMW has never had luck with VANOS, have they?

My SA didn't seem surpised.

[hfh330i]

:eeps:

[Theo]

:eeps:

What did you do!

[hfh330i]

What did you do!

I'm flying out today...most likely picking up '87 535is.

[lip277]

Cool.
Fill us in with details when you know.
That has to be one of my favorite BMW's.

Good luck!

[John V]

I love the look of E28s. I've always wanted to drive one. Grassroots motorsports did a resto-mod E28 535i many years ago. It turned out really cool, and they sold it for a song. They seem like really neat cars, and they're built like tanks.

[hfh330i]

Got her home:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/2670scd.jpg

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/b699re2.jpg

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/7e94re2.jpg

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/medium/535is_010.jpg

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/medium/535is_016.jpg

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/medium/5cd1re2.jpg

edit for bigger pics.

[BahnBaum]

Sweet!

Alex

[blee]

Congrats! She's beautiful. :)

[armaq]

Nice. Mileage? How much did you pay for it?

[SCA]

Wow! Very Nice!! :drool:

[hfh330i]

Nice. Mileage? How much did you pay for it?

122k; my business; but 4 digits. ;)

Thank you all. I fell in love with this model when I was a kid...probably when Tom Hanks sped around Manhattan trying to save a Mermaid in a silver one. :D

[equ]

Congrats. Looks gorgeous.

[John V]

Damn. Nice looking car. Where did you find it?

[hfh330i]

Damn. Nice looking car. Where did you find it?

Thank you! mye28.com classifieds. I lurked there months; great place to research this particular model.

I checked autotrader, ebay, cars.com, etc. along with other forums for a good clean example. I found a couple of candidates at these sites but I felt a lot more comfortable buying from an enthusiast, and I was willing to pay a premium for a great example.

[armaq]

122k; my business; but 4 digits. ;)

Thank you all. I fell in love with this model when I was a kid...probably when Tom Hanks sped around Manhattan trying to save a Mermaid in a silver one. :D

Congrats. I'm curious about the price because I'm looking for one of those too. My budget is 4 grand, so it probably won't be as nice as yours.

BTW, how's the AC on these cars?

[hfh330i]

Congrats. I'm curious about the price because I'm looking for one of those too. My budget is 4 grand, so it probably won't be as nice as yours.

BTW, how's the AC on these cars?

From what I can gather a very clean low mile (100-150k) can run from 6 to 9 grand. There are a couple of "showroom" cars out there that "demand" 10k+ at that point you are getting into M5 money.

Good mechanical and cosmetics can be found in the 4k range but typically the mileage will be in excess of 200k. From what I've read, and seen (just by the examples out there) is that the M30 is a bulletproof engine that can see mileage well into the 300k. I would make sure that the car is rust free, and some preventative maintenance items have been addressed. That includes the cooling system, suspension, and electronics. Most of the issues stem from wear and age. Manual transmissions are more reliable than automatics.

There is a car out in NC that was No. 2 on my list. Very good. 180K miles. Diamond Black II with cream beige. The owner has not officially listed it for sale but he is asking $7000. The car I bought had 60k miles less, euro headlights and some other goodies that I liked (and was closer). A good place to start looking is mye28.com.

EDIT: this car was sold over the weekend.

AC: According to the former owner you could hang meat. When I picked her up the ambient temp was ~7 f so switching on the AC was a bit moot. It was cool in Houston (60's) this morning and I switched the AC on to give her a try and my wife started bitching in <15 seconds. The real test will come in August. Airflow from the fan was great.

[Plaz]

AC: According to the former owner you could hang meat.

:lol:

[SCA]

I'm still drooling over your car. Great find! ;)

Have any larger pics?

[hfh330i]

I'm still drooling over your car. Great find! ;)

Have any larger pics?

Thanks!

I uploaded larger pics in the original post. Did you see these? I have very large pics at home that I can upload later...

[SCA]

Thanks!

I uploaded larger pics in the original post. Did you see these? I have very large pics at home that I can upload later...


I did after the post. :thumbup:

BTW, sent you a PM.

[armaq]

From what I can gather a very clean low mile (100-150k) can run from 6 to 9 grand. There are a couple of "showroom" cars out there that "demand" 10k+ at that point you are getting into M5 money.

Good mechanical and cosmetics can be found in the 4k range but typically the mileage will be in excess of 200k. From what I've read, and seen (just by the examples out there) is that the M30 is a bulletproof engine that can see mileage well into the 300k. I would make sure that the car is rust free, and some preventative maintenance items have been addressed. That includes the cooling system, suspension, and electronics. Most of the issues stem from wear and age. Manual transmissions are more reliable than automatics.

There is a car out in NC that was No. 2 on my list. Very good. 180K miles. Diamond Black II with cream beige. The owner has not officially listed it for sale but he is asking $7000. The car I bought had 60k miles less, euro headlights and some other goodies that I liked (and was closer). A good place to start looking is mye28.com.

EDIT: this car was sold over the weekend.

AC: According to the former owner you could hang meat. When I picked her up the ambient temp was ~7 f so switching on the AC was a bit moot. It was cool in Houston (60's) this morning and I switched the AC on to give her a try and my wife started bitching in <15 seconds. The real test will come in August. Airflow from the fan was great.

Thanks for the info! I'm currently looking at this one (http://www.roadfly.com/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=39236&sortby=&dir=).

BTW, I'm also located in Houston (thus the AC concern)!

[hfh330i]

Thanks for the info! I'm currently looking at this one (http://www.roadfly.com/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=39236&sortby=&dir=).

BTW, I'm also located in Houston (thus the AC concern)!

Indeed!

I've seen this car...the owner posts on mye28.com

http://www.mye28.com/viewtopic.php?t=24532&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=atlanta

I love the color combo, more pics in the link above along with some color from other members and the owner.

Edit: Those BBS RS3's are probably worth $2000 with tires in good condition.

[SCA]

Thanks for the info! I'm currently looking at this one (http://www.roadfly.com/bmw/classifieds/cars/detview.php?view=39236&sortby=&dir=).

BTW, I'm also located in Houston (thus the AC concern)!


Don't waste your time. The owner appears to not be very motivated to sell it. :dunno:

[hfh330i]

Don't waste your time. The owner appears to not be very motivated to sell it. :dunno:

That car sold, who bought it?

[armaq]

That car sold, who bought it?

Not me... I was told he had a potential buyer when I contacted him.

And I kinda started looking at E36 M3s again...