Z2: something i'd probably buy.

[lemming]

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060829/FREE/60828020/1024

smaller. less costly.

probably easier on (my) eyes.

[iateyourcheese]

Interesting, but even more so was this line:

Transmission choices should include a standard six-speed manual and an optional double-clutch unit with steering wheel-mounted shift paddles.

Is BMW transitioning to DSG in the future?

[Plaz]

I bet it will be slow.

[JST]

Interesting, but even more so was this line:



Is BMW transitioning to DSG in the future?


Yes, I've seen this noted elsewhere.

I agree with Plaz--it will be slow, though the article does mention a turbocharged version.

[lemming]

the article already mentioned a turbocharged 4 cylinder version.

i guess since MotorTrend chose the GXP over the Z43.0si this month with a lowly 4cylinder turbo, BMW is watching and learning.

[SCA]

I like it, but I stil rather have a 1er coupe.

[undefined]

I bet it will be slow.

i bet it will be "really quick"

[lupinsea]

http://cwimg.us.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CW&Date=20060829&Category=FREE&ArtNo=60828020&Ref=V2&Profile=1024&maxw=490

The perspective must be really off because it looks like they shrunk the driver!. That or these are artist renderings.

I find it interesting that they want to push into the lower end of the market and compete with the Miata. It would be interesting to see what they can do. I wonder, though, what the weight would be. Anyone think they could get it as light as the Miata?

I also wonder just how they'd do it given that the Solstice GXP is a pretty impressive and relatively cheap roadster down about the Miata's pricerange, too. And from what I've read/heard it'll be posting some impressive numbers.

Also, while some of the cut like could have been better placed (hood) and some of the proportions a little odd (rear seems a bit trunkated) over all I think this is a much more beautiful rendition of BMWs "flame surfacing" design aesthetic. Over all things see much more graceful.

http://cwimg.us.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CW&Date=20060829&Category=FREE&ArtNo=60828020&Ref=AR&Profile=1024&maxw=490









BTW, what ever happened to the M2 rumor or whatever that was floating around about a year or two ago? The images I saw looked real good. And the idea of something a little more compact, tidy, and hopefully lighter than the 3 series was very appealing.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20040415090346M2_1.jpg


http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/49310.jpg

[John V]

The front end view of this thing is waaAAAAAYY better than the Z4 front end. It somehow manages to not look so droopy. The side profile is still wonky as hell and the trunk is fugly, but the front end is a major improvement.

[lemming]

i really want a reason to have a nicely driving BMW again. you can all see how difficult that actually is to achieve.

[iateyourcheese]

http://cwimg.us.publicus.com/apps/pbcsi.dll/bilde?Site=CW&Date=20060829&Category=FREE&ArtNo=60828020&Ref=V2&Profile=1024&maxw=490

The perspective must be really off because it looks like they shrunk the driver!. That or these are artist renderings.


Under the "pictures" it says "Illustration by ..." so I assume these are photochops of a shortened Z4.

[Theo]

BTW, what ever happened to the M2 rumor or whatever that was floating around about a year or two ago? The images I saw looked real good. And the idea of something a little more compact, tidy, and hopefully lighter than the 3 series was very appealing.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20040415090346M2_1.jpg


http://bilder.autobild.de/bilder/1/49310.jpg

I would so buy that if it had a N\A I-6 with about 300hp and a weight around 3100 pounds. I can dream!! Oh and under 45K.

[SCA]

I would so buy that if it had a N\A I-6 with about 300hp and a weight around 3100 pounds. I can dream!! Oh and under 45K.

+1, but under $35k or less.

[bren]

+1, but under $35k or less.
:yes:

[lemming]

:yes:

i think it will be under 35k, though.

not by a lot, esp. for the upmarket version, but it should be at a decent price point. then it will be interesting to see how well they execute at those margins. clearly the mx5 and s2000 (and teh solstice/sky) get panned a lot for their harder plastics....guess we'll see how BMW deals with it.

[clyde]

The new Automobile has some detail/speculation:

Z2 1.8i: 150hp
Z2 2.0i: 200hp
Z2 2.0iS: 250hp
Z2 M: 300hp

Target weight: 2139 pounds. I first thought "misprint" but the next few words were, "more than 800 pounds less than the Z4," and if you do the math, that's about right.

Base Z2 pricing "should start at around $29,000."

It also mentions something about optional "adjustable springs and dampers." I suppose that's active handling, but who knows.

This could be an interesting option if it happens and makes the weight. 2139 pounds...that would be great.

[iateyourcheese]

The new Automobile has some detail/speculation:

Z2 1.8i: 150hp
Z2 2.0i: 200hp
Z2 2.0iS: 250hp
Z2 M: 300hp

Target weight: 2139 pounds. I first thought "misprint" but the next few words were, "more than 800 pounds less than the Z4," and if you do the math, that's about right.

Base Z2 pricing "should start at around $29,000."

It also mentions something about optional "adjustable springs and dampers." I suppose that's active handling, but who knows.

This could be an interesting option if it happens and makes the weight. 2139 pounds...that would be great.

:ack: Oh whatever. Next you're going to tell me BMW is moving away from struts in the front and single piston brakes.

I'm starting a special bank account in case this is true, however.

[lupinsea]

Hell, even if they could get within 300 lb. of their target weight that'd be a screamer, especially with the 250 and 300 hp engine options.

The new renderings in the recent Automobile look muuuuch better than the read pic posted earlier in this thread. Hopefully the final product would be more in the direction of the new renderings.

[lemming]

The new Automobile has some detail/speculation:

Z2 1.8i: 150hp
Z2 2.0i: 200hp
Z2 2.0iS: 250hp
Z2 M: 300hp

Target weight: 2139 pounds. I first thought "misprint" but the next few words were, "more than 800 pounds less than the Z4," and if you do the math, that's about right.

Base Z2 pricing "should start at around $29,000."

It also mentions something about optional "adjustable springs and dampers." I suppose that's active handling, but who knows.

This could be an interesting option if it happens and makes the weight. 2139 pounds...that would be great.

uuuuuh, clyde?

you skipped a lot of the tenor of the story (obviously) to not be inflammatory. so let me help. :D

"Lighter, cheaper z2 to pump up BMW's roadster volume."

"Why the new addition? Because of the Z4's sales have trailed off quickly after a robust first year (fewer than 20,000 cars were sold in 2005), which has BMW pining for the good old days of the Z3 --a car whose full-year sales never dipped below 30,000."

"The BMW Z3 enjoyed brisk sales over its 7 year lifespan. First introduced in late 1995, it received a reshaped rear end for 2000. The M version proved popular, but the oddly proportioned coupe did not. Worldwide sales for all Z3 models combined ranged from a high of 61,015 in 1997 to a low of 34,213 for 2001.

IS BANGLE TO BLAME?
The z4's styling has been controversial since day one, and sales of BMW's follow-up roadster have not met expectations. The cabin quality and electrically assisted steering have also been criticized. Whatever the cause, sales have fallen precipitously from the 2003 high of 56,589 units. last year, only 19,830 z4s were built."

[FC]

I'm starting a special bank account in case this is true, however.

:+1

I'd be all over that.

[undefined]

I thought Z4 sales were healthy, robust, astronomical, etc etc etc

[clyde]

I thought Z4 sales were healthy, robust, astronomical, etc etc etc
I thought Ed thought that.

[clyde]

uuuuuh, clyde?

you skipped a lot of the tenor of the story

I don't give a shit about that stuff.

[lemming]

I don't give a shit about that stuff.

:twisted:

i know.

[Sharp11]

:twisted:

i know.

Automobile hates the Z4, they always have, however there is some truth to what they're saying:

The Z4 attracts younger people, cool people and creative types - almost none of whom could afford to buy one. As the young female cellist who was working for me said "your car is AWESOME".

The people who could afford to buy it are old farts who prefer sedans and, gasp, Cadillacs then complain their cars are not "involving" are "too heavy" and "too slow". These same people will then post incessantly about how they could never buy a car with "just two seats". :lol:

Seriously though, the Z2 is a bit of a masterstroke; it'll share the same assembly line as the Z4, many of the same parts and of course resources - all of which stretches the business case and allows us, the consumers, to enjoy a future with many choices. I think it's great.

My guess is, the Z4 goes further upmarket with perhaps a metal retractable roof and additional weight and luxury while the Z2 becomes the new Z3.

The Z3, when it was first released, was designed as a cheap, four cylinder sports car, a bit better than a Miata, but not by much. When BMW tried to move the Z3 upmarket with inline sixes and higher trim, sales trailed off - it's just plain tough to sell two-seaters at Boxster/Z4 prices, these cars are really expensive - a typical Z4 costs as much as or more than a high spec 335i!!

For me, I'd be putting my own money on the Z2, but primarily as a third car.

Ed

[lemming]

Automobile hates the Z4, they always have, however there is some truth to what they're saying:

The Z4 attracts younger people, cool people and creative types - almost none of whom could afford to buy one. As the young female cellist who was working for me said "your car is AWESOME".

The people who could afford to buy it are old farts who prefer sedans and, gasp, Cadillacs then complain their cars are not "involving" are "too heavy" and "too slow". These same people will then post incessantly about how they could never buy a car with "just two seats". :lol:

Seriously though, the Z2 is a bit of a masterstroke; it'll share the same assembly line as the Z4, many of the same parts and of course resources - all of which stretches the business case and allows us, the consumers, to enjoy a future with many choices. I think it's great.

My guess is, the Z4 goes further upmarket with perhaps a metal retractable roof and additional weight and luxury while the Z2 becomes the new Z3.

The Z3, when it was first released, was designed as a cheap, four cylinder sports car, a bit better than a Miata, but not by much. When BMW tried to move the Z3 upmarket with inline sixes and higher trim, sales trailed off - it's just plain tough to sell two-seaters at Boxster/Z4 prices, these cars are really expensive - a typical Z4 costs as much as or more than a high spec 335i!!

For me, I'd be putting my own money on the Z2, but primarily as a third car.

Ed

but the upside, Ed, is that you got yours for a steal.

:D

(yeah, you're right, too. no one really brings up the obvious which is the pricing went waaaaaaay upmarket on the z4)

[Sharp11]

I thought Z4 sales were healthy, robust, astronomical, etc etc etc

The two most controversial and hated by carmudgeon BMW's, the Z4 and 5 series, are the two best selling BMW's here in the states.

Interesting, don't you think?

If it weren't for these two, BMW would be posting far deeper drops than -12% for august.

Ed

[undefined]

if the Z4 was meeting expectations they wouldn't be down 12%

[Sharp11]

but the upside, Ed, is that you got yours for a steal.

:D

(yeah, you're right, too. no one really brings up the obvious which is the pricing went waaaaaaay upmarket on the z4)

I would never, in a million fucking years, pay the kind of money BMW is asking for the regular Z4 let alone the M models - people are out of their minds.

My car, an 05, listed for $50,500. I got it with 3700mi on the clock for $31,500. I'd have been an idiot NOT to buy it. :lol:

I can sell it today for a profit.

Ed

[Sharp11]

if the Z4 was meeting expectations they wouldn't be down 12%

Well let's see, if I were meeting my own expectations, I'd be forever 25, never get sick, have a string of hit records and retire on a huge yacht with a staff of people on call to make me coffee whenever I wanted it.

Anything short of that is failure.

Ed

[clyde]

Anything short of that is failure.

Sorry that your life is a bust, dude. Maybe if you buy yourself a whimpy engined, slushie BMW you'll feel better.

:eeps:

[Sharp11]

Sorry that your life is a bust, dude. Maybe if you buy yourself a whimpy engined, slushie BMW you'll feel better.

:eeps:

Ummm...it was a joke....using humor to illustrate a point about expectations and......forget it.

As for the attack line regarding automatics etc. :dunno:

Ed

[iateyourcheese]

The two most controversial and hated by carmudgeon BMW's, the Z4 and 5 series, are the two best selling BMW's here in the states.

Interesting, don't you think?

If it weren't for these two, BMW would be posting far deeper drops than -12% for august.

Ed

What does this mean, exactly? Define best selling for me. I see the 3 series outselling the Z4 nearly 10:1 so far in 2006, and greater than 2:1 for 3er:5er on 2006.

Year to date
3: 77,783
5: 35,754
Z4: 8,156

:dunno:

http://home.att.net/~fdmeloan/wsb/html/view.cgi-showresources.html-TopRes-BMW-20Sales-20Reports.html

[Sharp11]

What does this mean, exactly? Define best selling for me. I see the 3 series outselling the Z4 nearly 10:1 so far in 2006, and greater than 2:1 for 3er:5er on 2006.

Year to date
3: 77,783
5: 35,754
Z4: 8,156

:dunno:

http://home.att.net/~fdmeloan/wsb/html/view.cgi-showresources.html-TopRes-BMW-20Sales-20Reports.html

The three series is a volume seller, it's supposed to sell at a level that's much higher than either the five and the z4 - certainly you know this, I hope.

Car makers measure sales success by both ytd (year to date) over the year before and by month as compared to the same month a year before.

For August, both the Z4 and the 5 series posted substantial gains (and have been all summer long) while sales of the three series have flattened and X series and 6's, 7's etc have tanked.

Sales success is also measured by how well a car does in its category - both the Z4 and the 5 are top sellers in their respective classes.

Fred Meloan publishes the data on the 'fest - it's easy to find if you're interested.

What does all this mean to you and me? Nothing at all, but to automakers, it's live and die by stuff - just like the nielsens on tv.

Ed

[iateyourcheese]

The new Automobile has some detail/speculation:

Z2 1.8i: 150hp
Z2 2.0i: 200hp
Z2 2.0iS: 250hp
Z2 M: 300hp

Target weight: 2139 pounds. I first thought "misprint" but the next few words were, "more than 800 pounds less than the Z4," and if you do the math, that's about right.

Base Z2 pricing "should start at around $29,000."

It also mentions something about optional "adjustable springs and dampers." I suppose that's active handling, but who knows.

This could be an interesting option if it happens and makes the weight. 2139 pounds...that would be great.

C&D is saying 2800 lbs. :(
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11537/2010-bmw-z2.html

Unlike today’s Z4, which is powered exclusively by six-cylinder engines, the Z2 will only get four-cylinder power. However, those engines will range in strength from 150 horsepower in base versions all the way to a turbocharged 300-hp, 2.0-liter four-cylinder in the M-tuned version. An expected curb weight of 2800 pounds should allow the Z2 to make the most of that power. Transmission choices will include a traditional manual and — surprise, surprise — a double-clutch gearbox similar to Volkswagen/Audi’s DSG. BMW plans on replacing its rough-shifting sequential manual gearboxes with smoother DSG-like transmissions before the end of the decade.

To keep costs down, a nearly identical chassis to today’s Z4 will underpin the Z2 — struts up front with a multilink setup in back — but there will be the option of adjustable shocks. The electric power-steering rack from the Z4 will also live on in the Z2, with optional variable-ratio active steering.


If it really shares a chassis with the Z4, then there's no way to lose 1000 lbs down to the 2100 lb range.

[ff]

If it really shares a chassis with the Z4, then there's no way to lose 1000 lbs down to the 2100 lb range.

Bummer. A 2139 lb coupe w/ 300 HP would be a very attractive choice.

[FC]

Bummer. A 2139 lb coupe w/ 300 HP would be a very attractive choice.

Well, let's be honest, a Cayman/987S may be a better performance car for many reasons, but if this thing (MZ2) costs 10-20K less, that is still pretty sweet. Anything under 3,000lbs and with a lb/hp of less than 10 is pretty good.

[lemming]

Well, let's be honest, a Cayman 987S may be a better performance car for many reasons, but i fthis thing (MZ2) costs 10-20K less, that is still pretty sweet. Anthing under 3,000lbs and with a lb/hp of more less than 10 is pretty good.

werd.

[undefined]

talk about a blast from the past

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10263

[lupinsea]

Wow. . . what's taking them so long? :toetap:

[clyde]

C&D is saying 2800 lbs. :(
http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11537/2010-bmw-z2.html



If it really shares a chassis with the Z4, then there's no way to lose 1000 lbs down to the 2100 lb range.

And R&T is saying that it looses 900 from the Z4 which does put it in the 2100 range.

I won't really believe it until I see it, but I'll probably go through two cars between now and then anyway.

[scottn2retro]

BTW, what ever happened to the M2 rumor or whatever that was floating around about a year or two ago? The images I saw looked real good. And the idea of something a little more compact, tidy, and hopefully lighter than the 3 series was very appealing.

http://www.wheels24.co.za/Images/Photos/20040415090346M2_1.jpg


I'd love it too, but for now there is the MZ4 Coupe. Ah, maybe one day.