So, what is your opinion on Cayman making a good AS class car?

[FT@SGP]

I think the Cayman S is a lousy choice in SCCA Supe Stock class and has no chances at all; but the non-S (or as Lemming would put it the de-de-tuned corc) might make a great AS car.

It is about 100 lbs lighter than the S version, with the optional 18" wheel set and similar (or better) handling, I think it may give the S2000s, Boxters, etc. a good run for their money, in the right hands of course, not mine ;)

What do you think?

[JST]

Is the Boxster S still AS, or has the 3.4L moved that out?

[clyde]

The simple answer is that the non-S Cayman would probably make a good AS car, although BS might even be a better place for it. I don't think it will happen, though. "Best of breed" will be the chosen argument (because it would fit at the moment no matter how many recent examples there are of best of breed being ignored) against putting it anywhere other than where the S version is classed.

[clyde]

Is the Boxster S still AS, or has the 3.4L moved that out?
97-04 Boxster ALL - AS

05+ Boxster - AS
05+ Boxster S - SS

06+ Cayman S - SS
07+ Cayman - ?? (I bet it will go to SS, but I could be wrong)

[FT@SGP]

97-04 Boxster ALL - AS

05+ Boxster - AS
05+ Boxster S - SS

06+ Cayman S - SS
07+ Cayman - ?? (I bet it will go to SS, but I could be wrong)
I doubt it will go into SS, I mean the '07 Cayman, they will (sorry, "should") class it in AS like the '05+ Boxter; but of course you never know...

[clyde]

I doubt it will go into SS, I mean the '07 Cayman, they will (sorry, "should") class it in AS like the '05+ Boxter; but of course you never know...
The problem with predicting some things is that they claim best of breed for some things when it suits the action they want to take and something else (if anything) when it doesn't.

Regardless, WRT to the Cayman, on paper it looks like a great BS car...one that should be capable of winning, but not dominant. If it's classed in AS, it may as well be classed in SS for all the success it will enjoy. On paper. Reality, often being different than paper... :dunno:

[FT@SGP]

Can't disagree with you, I think it will be interesting discussion in the near future; not like the rally vs pony cars discussions of 2 years ago, interesting nevertheless :)

[JST]

97-04 Boxster ALL - AS

05+ Boxster - AS
05+ Boxster S - SS

06+ Cayman S - SS
07+ Cayman - ?? (I bet it will go to SS, but I could be wrong)

Blows my mind that the Boxster S is an SS car.

[Pinecone]

Remember this is in teh mind of the SCCA. And they have very sta\range minds at times. :)

[clyde]

Not the SCCA, the SEB

[John V]

Regardless, WRT to the Cayman, on paper it looks like a great BS car...one that should be capable of winning, but not dominant.

The 987 Boxster (non-S) should be almost as quick as a 986 Boxster S on an autocross course. A 987 Cayman should be faster than a 987 Boxster (non-S) on an autocross course. So what is your rationale for saying it would be a good, but not dominant B Stock car?

[clyde]

The 987 Boxster (non-S) should be almost as quick as a 986 Boxster S on an autocross course. A 987 Cayman should be faster than a 987 Boxster (non-S) on an autocross course. So what is your rationale for saying it would be a good, but not dominant B Stock car?
On paper. Between weight, power, torque, wheel width, length and width, it's a good match for the RX-8 and 350Z. It's not much of a leap to believe that the car will do better than its paper stats suggest because of what it is, and the AS classing would be a better class choice. We won't really know for sure what the car can do until it's fully developed.

But there are other issues as well. In reading the SEB tea leaves, one of the principles that they're indicated recently is that Stock classes will get faster. The most recent place where that's been explicitly stated by mulitple SEB members (in unofficial capacities) was with keeping the LSD equipped MINI S in GS. Following that, we have the Solstice classed in CS because "it looks like" a CS car. And it's whipping the old guard in CS. Prior to both of those decisions, BS had gotten slower when the S2K, Z4 and non-S Boxster were moved from BS to AS. There's a bit of a disconnect there. Add to that, the fact that CS pre-Solstice was starting to beat BS at National events more than just occasionally. Also add the expected increase in speed in SS with the C6Z06 and GT3 next year as well as continuously improving results from the Elise.

If the SEB were to follow through with some kind of consistentcy, BS must get faster...and soon. The performance range between BS and SS is expanding, and there is more pressure being applied from below with the CS Solstice (and if the new MX-5 gets a decent option package, it will only become more acute).

Come back to that paper comparison of the Cayman vs the RX-8 and 350Z. Maybe it would be dominant. Maybe that wouldn't be such a bad thing.

[John V]

On paper. Between weight, power, torque, wheel width, length and width, it's a good match for the RX-8 and 350Z. It's not much of a leap to believe that the car will do better than its paper stats suggest because of what it is, and the AS classing would be a better class choice.

If what you're talking about (nothing short of a complete stock-class restructuring) is true, and I have no reason to think it is not, then B Stock would get a lot faster. If the Cayman makes B Stock, then the 987 non-S Boxster has to move down as well. That means that the 986 Boxsters should move down as well. That means that the S2000 should move back down as well (are S2000 owners dizzy yet? AS -> BS -> AS -> BS?). So what about the C4? Is it left to live out its final days in the "new" AS? The rallycars would have to move down as well.

What should the "new" AS be? 987 S cars, C5 non-Z06 Corvettes, Solstice GXP (if it doesn't land in B Stock)?

All this talk makes me realize how little desire I have to ever be on the SAC / SEB.

John V

[clyde]

If what you're talking about (nothing short of a complete stock-class restructuring) is true, and I have no reason to think it is not, then B Stock would get a lot faster.

The bottom line is that there are 9 Stock classes. As long as that number remains, there will never be more than about 15 cars that are nationally competitive at any time and that number will frequently be closer to 12. Restructuring the classes only rearranges what 12-15 cars will be competitive. Those that want to win will pick cars based on the short list. Everyone else will bitch.

If the Cayman makes B Stock

It won't. Doesn't mean that it shouldn't, but it won't.

[clyde]

eh

Saturn Redline GXP AS
Porsche Cayman non-S AS
BMW Z4 Coupe ('07+) AS
BMW Z4M Coupe ('07+) SS
VW Rabbit ('07+) HS

[bren]

eh

Saturn Redline GXP AS
Porsche Cayman non-S AS
BMW Z4 Coupe ('07+) AS
BMW Z4M Coupe ('07+) SS
VW Rabbit ('07+) HS
Doesn't look like any of those are helping "speed up" stock classes. :toetap:

[Nick M3]

Doesn't look like any of those are helping "speed up" stock classes. :toetap:
Are you kidding? How could a 4,500lbs. VW not speed up HS?

[John V]

Doesn't look like any of those are helping "speed up" stock classes. :toetap:

I think the Solstice GXP will speed up A Stock.