clyde
12-29-2003, 03:00 PM
http://www.lawair.com/rx8/beep.jpg
Yeah, I got through the break in period yesterday and did a few redline runs. It beeps at 8,500rpm. :D
Further RX-8 impresisons:
So now that the RX-8 is all broken in, and it's beeped at me a couple times, I thought that I would share some thoughts in no particular order. Keep in mind, though, that I haven't run the car very hard yet.
First, it's a completely different ride than a late model BMW and there both good and bad parts to that. It all seems to keep coming back to how much the car weighs. Where every E46 that I've driven has felt hevy, dull and ponderous, the RX-8 feels light, agile and responsive. The RX-8 is just waiting for the steering wheel to be turned and when you do, it rewards.
Starting with the steering wheel, steering weight is very good (although I would be happy if it was just a tad bit heavier). The electric assistance makes different noises than the hydraulic power assist systems in most other cars, but it takes a little getting used to. The feel/feedback through the wheel is better than in my '02 325xiT (which is the best feeling steering rack that I've experienced in any E46, including the M3). It lets you know exactly what's going on with the front wheels and tires with more tactile sensation than the xiT without being overwhelming or tiring (and without the kickback of, say, a C4 Corvette).
In the E46, it's turn the wheel, pause, feel the car turn. Not so in the RX-8. Turn in is pretty sharp and it's takes a little to get used to coming out of an E46. Once turning, it's very sensitive to further steering input and should take a decidedly more delicate touch on an autocross course than an E46 (which is a good thing). At the same time, the RX-8 is much more sensitive to throttle position in mid turn than the E46. It's very cool to be able to recognize/feel the effects of weight transfer at grandma type speeds. Give it a little more gas, and the front end starts to go just a tad bit wider. Let off the gas a little bit and the front tucks in. It's very S2000 like in this regard. It feels so much more finely honed and more taut than an E46 it's almost scandelous.
Between a couple of lift throttle oversteer events at moderate speed with what should have been warm tires (although likely still new enough to be influenced by mold release compounds) and my rather low pucker factor threshold on the street, I don't expect to find the RE040 limits outside of an autocross course (if I ever run those tires at an autocross).
Ride/handling The ride is reasonably soft and compliant. It's a comfortable car to drive. Control of body movements could be better. While the springs will remaint he same, I'm looking forward to seeing what it will be like with better shocks. Hopefully, they will be able to better tame the car in high speed transitions. I haven't been wagging the tail, but it feels like that's what it's going to do with through slaloms with the OEM dampers. I have read about understeer in steady state corners, but I haven't driven hard enough to find that to be a problem yet. If it does turn out to be there, a stiffer front bar should help as the car is camber challenged (max of about -1.2 thorugh -1.5 in front). Still, it turns well and is able to carry a good bit of speed without being fazed while remaining below my aforementioned pucker factor limitations.
Power. It's smooth like no piston engine I've ever driven. Even V12s don't come close. Power delivery is constant and linear which makes it less than exciting. It's just there and keeps going and going, does it what it does and is what it is. Lacking spikes in the power band, everything it does, it does without drama. It doesn't feel like it's all that quick, but after being at wide open throttle for a couple seconds, you find your self going noticeably faster than you expected. Seat of the pants feel indicates that acceleration from any rpm to any rpm is the same as any other rev change in the same gear. It's kind of odd.
Transmission. It's noisy, especially at idle/low speeds and there is a tech bulletin stating that this is normal and not something that requires service. It reminds me of late 60's muscle cars actually. While the throws are much shorter than in the xiT, they are not all that short (like an S2000 or Miata). While it's a stubby little knob that rides low, the shifter has a feel reminiscent of a quality rifle bolt action. It's just that slick. I'm not sure about the spring tension as I'm still having some difficulty being sure that I'm shifting into the gear that I want. I expect this to imporve with more experience. The clutch is a bit light, but has a decent engagement point and much better feel than the clutches in the E46 (325/330).
Build quality/fit & finish/materials/etc. Definitely not up to E46 standards. There are a few items in the interior that I worry about wrt long term durability (such as the front center armrest cover). Many of the materials feel kind of cheap and the plastic is very plasticy. The cloth seats sort of have an alcantara feel, but it's different. Kind of spongey, but pretty grippy. There are a few crashing noises that seem to come from the interior over sharp impacts, but I'm not convinced that other squeaks and rattles can't be traced to other items (crap in glovebox/glovebox/armrests, child seat, etc).
DSC/TC. The dynamic stability control and traction control is kind of similar to the non xi E46 models in that it's disabled in two stages. The initial press of the button appears to up the thresholds for activation, but does not completely disable the systems. However, if you engage the ABS the systems revert to their default funcitonality. If you press and hold for a few seconds, the systems are *supposed* to be completely disengaged. However, ther eis a guy using some data logging equipment that's plugged into the ECU. With the DSC/TC supposedly completely disengaged, it shows some throttle position variations that didn't physically happen with the throttle pedal (a few downward spikes after shifting into second on 1/4 mile runs). Hopefully, I will be able to figure this out myself in the near future. And, yes, the car uses a DBW throttle. Thankfully, though, it's lag free compared to the E46s. With the systems running normally, the first stage of DSC/TC intervention feels prety nonintrusive, kind of like the E46M3. At wide open throttle out of a turn or a hardish launch, the light comes on, but you don't feel anything happening. These have been in situations where I would expect maybe just a little chirping in a car without electronic nannies.
Gas mileage. I've bought gas three times. Each tank has been a mix of city/highway with only light throttle application (except the last few miles of the last tank. IIRC, I've averaged (in order) 19, 17 and 13. I think that part of the mileage issue is due to very poor idle efficency. This is a larger issue than in other cars, becuase it is recommended to let the car the warm up for a few minutes before driving it...lest you stall it and flood. If the car is turned off without having warmed up, there is a risk of flooding and fouling the plugs. A lot of people have had to have tows to the dealer to get their RX-8s running again. There is a procedure specified in the manual and it's unclear how many of those that got towed actually tried the procedure, and tried it properly. So, the car spends a lot of time idling in the morning before the trip to the subway and again in the evening when I come home. Since the car runs very rich on a cold start and idles at near 2k for the first couple minutes it makes a bad problem worse. I'll be doing a long trip that should span about two tanks of gas in a couple weeks, so I ought to learn a little more.
Faults with my specific car so far. The CD player has skipped a few times, but I will likely replace it with Mazda's MP3 CD player module. (The stereo is weird in that the headunit is one item, that accepts two modules. A CD player or changer above and a cassette tape or MD below.) The other thing is that about 75% of the time there is a passenger behind the driver, there is visible interference on the NAV screen. It's only happened when my wife, daughter and brother were in the car with me and my brother was sitting behind me and it happened on 6 of the 8 occasions we were all in the car. It hasn't happened under any other circumstances, but I haven't driven with a full load of people other than those times either.
My big dislike...too many r1cers want to race me and I get kind of creeped out by all the people that look at the car/me.
Bottom line...it's a fu*king fun car to drive. I don't think that there's anything (new) in the price range with a similar performance/practicality ratio that can even get close to touching it.
Yeah, I got through the break in period yesterday and did a few redline runs. It beeps at 8,500rpm. :D
Further RX-8 impresisons:
So now that the RX-8 is all broken in, and it's beeped at me a couple times, I thought that I would share some thoughts in no particular order. Keep in mind, though, that I haven't run the car very hard yet.
First, it's a completely different ride than a late model BMW and there both good and bad parts to that. It all seems to keep coming back to how much the car weighs. Where every E46 that I've driven has felt hevy, dull and ponderous, the RX-8 feels light, agile and responsive. The RX-8 is just waiting for the steering wheel to be turned and when you do, it rewards.
Starting with the steering wheel, steering weight is very good (although I would be happy if it was just a tad bit heavier). The electric assistance makes different noises than the hydraulic power assist systems in most other cars, but it takes a little getting used to. The feel/feedback through the wheel is better than in my '02 325xiT (which is the best feeling steering rack that I've experienced in any E46, including the M3). It lets you know exactly what's going on with the front wheels and tires with more tactile sensation than the xiT without being overwhelming or tiring (and without the kickback of, say, a C4 Corvette).
In the E46, it's turn the wheel, pause, feel the car turn. Not so in the RX-8. Turn in is pretty sharp and it's takes a little to get used to coming out of an E46. Once turning, it's very sensitive to further steering input and should take a decidedly more delicate touch on an autocross course than an E46 (which is a good thing). At the same time, the RX-8 is much more sensitive to throttle position in mid turn than the E46. It's very cool to be able to recognize/feel the effects of weight transfer at grandma type speeds. Give it a little more gas, and the front end starts to go just a tad bit wider. Let off the gas a little bit and the front tucks in. It's very S2000 like in this regard. It feels so much more finely honed and more taut than an E46 it's almost scandelous.
Between a couple of lift throttle oversteer events at moderate speed with what should have been warm tires (although likely still new enough to be influenced by mold release compounds) and my rather low pucker factor threshold on the street, I don't expect to find the RE040 limits outside of an autocross course (if I ever run those tires at an autocross).
Ride/handling The ride is reasonably soft and compliant. It's a comfortable car to drive. Control of body movements could be better. While the springs will remaint he same, I'm looking forward to seeing what it will be like with better shocks. Hopefully, they will be able to better tame the car in high speed transitions. I haven't been wagging the tail, but it feels like that's what it's going to do with through slaloms with the OEM dampers. I have read about understeer in steady state corners, but I haven't driven hard enough to find that to be a problem yet. If it does turn out to be there, a stiffer front bar should help as the car is camber challenged (max of about -1.2 thorugh -1.5 in front). Still, it turns well and is able to carry a good bit of speed without being fazed while remaining below my aforementioned pucker factor limitations.
Power. It's smooth like no piston engine I've ever driven. Even V12s don't come close. Power delivery is constant and linear which makes it less than exciting. It's just there and keeps going and going, does it what it does and is what it is. Lacking spikes in the power band, everything it does, it does without drama. It doesn't feel like it's all that quick, but after being at wide open throttle for a couple seconds, you find your self going noticeably faster than you expected. Seat of the pants feel indicates that acceleration from any rpm to any rpm is the same as any other rev change in the same gear. It's kind of odd.
Transmission. It's noisy, especially at idle/low speeds and there is a tech bulletin stating that this is normal and not something that requires service. It reminds me of late 60's muscle cars actually. While the throws are much shorter than in the xiT, they are not all that short (like an S2000 or Miata). While it's a stubby little knob that rides low, the shifter has a feel reminiscent of a quality rifle bolt action. It's just that slick. I'm not sure about the spring tension as I'm still having some difficulty being sure that I'm shifting into the gear that I want. I expect this to imporve with more experience. The clutch is a bit light, but has a decent engagement point and much better feel than the clutches in the E46 (325/330).
Build quality/fit & finish/materials/etc. Definitely not up to E46 standards. There are a few items in the interior that I worry about wrt long term durability (such as the front center armrest cover). Many of the materials feel kind of cheap and the plastic is very plasticy. The cloth seats sort of have an alcantara feel, but it's different. Kind of spongey, but pretty grippy. There are a few crashing noises that seem to come from the interior over sharp impacts, but I'm not convinced that other squeaks and rattles can't be traced to other items (crap in glovebox/glovebox/armrests, child seat, etc).
DSC/TC. The dynamic stability control and traction control is kind of similar to the non xi E46 models in that it's disabled in two stages. The initial press of the button appears to up the thresholds for activation, but does not completely disable the systems. However, if you engage the ABS the systems revert to their default funcitonality. If you press and hold for a few seconds, the systems are *supposed* to be completely disengaged. However, ther eis a guy using some data logging equipment that's plugged into the ECU. With the DSC/TC supposedly completely disengaged, it shows some throttle position variations that didn't physically happen with the throttle pedal (a few downward spikes after shifting into second on 1/4 mile runs). Hopefully, I will be able to figure this out myself in the near future. And, yes, the car uses a DBW throttle. Thankfully, though, it's lag free compared to the E46s. With the systems running normally, the first stage of DSC/TC intervention feels prety nonintrusive, kind of like the E46M3. At wide open throttle out of a turn or a hardish launch, the light comes on, but you don't feel anything happening. These have been in situations where I would expect maybe just a little chirping in a car without electronic nannies.
Gas mileage. I've bought gas three times. Each tank has been a mix of city/highway with only light throttle application (except the last few miles of the last tank. IIRC, I've averaged (in order) 19, 17 and 13. I think that part of the mileage issue is due to very poor idle efficency. This is a larger issue than in other cars, becuase it is recommended to let the car the warm up for a few minutes before driving it...lest you stall it and flood. If the car is turned off without having warmed up, there is a risk of flooding and fouling the plugs. A lot of people have had to have tows to the dealer to get their RX-8s running again. There is a procedure specified in the manual and it's unclear how many of those that got towed actually tried the procedure, and tried it properly. So, the car spends a lot of time idling in the morning before the trip to the subway and again in the evening when I come home. Since the car runs very rich on a cold start and idles at near 2k for the first couple minutes it makes a bad problem worse. I'll be doing a long trip that should span about two tanks of gas in a couple weeks, so I ought to learn a little more.
Faults with my specific car so far. The CD player has skipped a few times, but I will likely replace it with Mazda's MP3 CD player module. (The stereo is weird in that the headunit is one item, that accepts two modules. A CD player or changer above and a cassette tape or MD below.) The other thing is that about 75% of the time there is a passenger behind the driver, there is visible interference on the NAV screen. It's only happened when my wife, daughter and brother were in the car with me and my brother was sitting behind me and it happened on 6 of the 8 occasions we were all in the car. It hasn't happened under any other circumstances, but I haven't driven with a full load of people other than those times either.
My big dislike...too many r1cers want to race me and I get kind of creeped out by all the people that look at the car/me.
Bottom line...it's a fu*king fun car to drive. I don't think that there's anything (new) in the price range with a similar performance/practicality ratio that can even get close to touching it.