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Jason C
05-28-2006, 01:32 AM
Assorted musings from the last few weeks...

Circumstances around the family meant that I got to drive a few cars that I normally would not have had access to. I took the Saab back from Davis, a nice boring 2 hour drive. Surprisingly high level of NVH filtering in through the cabin (unless you've already read reviews), excellent power seats with lumbar adjust. I felt like I could have gone all the way to LA with only a bathroom break in between. Very very comfy seats. Interior is a curious combination of soft-touch material on the places you'd expect it - such as right ahead of the front passenger, and some conspicuously GM barely-above-Fisher-Price hollow-sounding plastics covering the interior B-pillar from the headliner all the way to the carpets. Whatever, it all looks attractive and the critical bits like the seats and the steering wheel were nice, which is more important anyway.

Navigation system works well, mostly - but unfortunately whatever satin coating they chose to put over the touchscreen washes out the screen disappointingly often when the sun is at certain angles. The directions are sometimes late to the party, and other times it's obvious that the stated instructions/directional arrows aren't on the same page with actual road conditions. No voice control either. But it works well enough, and there's a lot of helpful business listings in the disk. Yeah, the disk that goes into what I thought was the in-dash CD player. That turned out to be in the trunk.

I also got to drive around a Volvo 850T for a day not too long after the Davis trip. The Saab and the Volvo are both somewhat similar to drive - torquey turbo engines with less cylinders than what you might expect for an executive express. They both get up and go nicely in city driving and during passing maneuvers, and both are reasonably economical so long as you stay the hell out of the boost. Both somewhat numb in steering, and initially flat cornering giving way to safe understeer. After driving the two, I have to say that I'm not so interested in getting a FI bottom-end torque monster for a car. Sure, the Swedes were nice in most driving circumstances I came across. It just wasn't that exciting to me. A low, characterless hum at lower RPMs that gave way to a louder, slightly more interesting hum when you're into the boost. Effortless torque with some lag, no burst of life when tached up to the right, no feeling of endless revs, no engine scream reaching for the limiter, a lot of thrust but ultimately doesn't inspire a lot of enthusiasm. Don't get me wrong, it's a nice thing to have in everyday driving. Just doesn't get the blood stirring, that's all. The "I like torque" contingent would surely disagree, I don't blame them - for most Americans, these engine characteristics are very appropriate for commuting. Which makes me wonder why congested Europe get diesels, and open-range Yanks get the hybrids. Honda is coming out with both a 4-cylinder and a V6 diesel for all 50 states and Canada in less than 3 years, all I have to say to them is: you're late to the market, you've known about Tier 2 Bin 5 for quite a few years now and this is the earliest we can expect you? Oh well, better late than never I guess. Speaking of Honda...

As for my own car buy, it's not until I'm out of STEP (or close), but I'm leaning towards going for the "dedicated MPG commuter + bike" route. Hence my visit to the local non-gouging Honda dealer to check out their Civic EX and the Fit. Don't know about everywhere else, but here in looney CA they're selling every Fit they can get their hands on. No discount below MSRP. The Honda lot has plenty of Pilots, Ridgelines, Elements, Odysseys, CR-Vs, and Accords. Some Civics. One Civic Si, and two S2000. And not a single Fit. The last time I came here about 2 months ago, the same situation - but there were two Fits. And one of them had been sold, unlike the two S2000s which have been here for at least 1/2 a year. The Fit is keeping these dealers busy.

Ah yes, the lone Si. Non-Navi with summer tires, my preferred combo. I have to admit I was not set on getting Rallye Red when I saw it online (too orange, I thought). Not anymore. It looks perfect. Just classic sports car red. No orange, no beige, no brown, no yellow mixed in, and none of that merlot-red shit. I really wish I could have been driving that car off the lot today. Oh well.


PS: You can see from the attachment a mostly accurate depiction of Rallye Red as seen in person. Just like BMWs Terra interior, for some reason cameras tend to really bring out the (non-existent?) orange in RR. Another reminder today to check out colors in person, on an actual car, before passing judgement.

ff
05-28-2006, 07:06 PM
I stopped in at a local Honda dealer last week, hoping to find a stick (anything) to drive. Nothing. All the Civics and Accords they get in these days are slushies. Used to be that you could always count on Honda having many stick Accords and Civics on hand. The end of manual transmission cars really is not far off. :mad:

I sat in the Civic, and was completely turned off by the dash design. I just don't get it. It looks worse in person than it does in pictures. And the dash (and interior in general) reaks of cheapness. I don't know if it's because I'm used to Lexus and BMW interiors now, but I never used to think Honda interior quality were all that bad.

Question to self: Have the Americans caught up to the Japanese with regards to mainstream car interior quality, or have the Japanese just gotten worse?

Jason C
05-28-2006, 09:00 PM
I stopped in at a local Honda dealer last week, hoping to find a stick (anything) to drive. Nothing. All the Civics and Accords they get in these days are slushies. Used to be that you could always count on Honda having many stick Accords and Civics on hand. The end of manual transmission cars really is not far off. :mad:

I sat in the Civic, and was completely turned off by the dash design. I just don't get it. It looks worse in person than it does in pictures. And the dash (and interior in general) reaks of cheapness. I don't know if it's because I'm used to Lexus and BMW interiors now, but I never used to think Honda interior quality were all that bad.

Question to self: Have the Americans caught up to the Japanese with regards to mainstream car interior quality, or have the Japanese just gotten worse?


For me, if I were to go the dedicated mpg route, it would have to be a slushie - at least in the case of the Civic, because it's rated 30/40 instead of 30/38. Stick all the way for the Fit Sport though, that's 33/38 compared to 31/38 for the auto.

As for the dash design, I actually liked it in person. It's not like its that new from Honda, them having done this kind of digital display concept for the S2000 and all. I freely acknowledge that those a generation or two older may not (probably will not) find it to their liking, but most of the younger crowd seem to go for it, which would indicate to me that Honda's goal of lowering the ever-creeping-upwards average buyer age of the Civic may work. That's one of Honda's stated goals for this Civic from the start, and also has to do with all their work on the Element, and Scion's raison d’ętre.

Cost-cutting? I noticed some cheap bits, but on the whole it looked and felt a lot more special than, say, a Cobalt or a Caliber or a Corolla. Cost-cutting is nothing new, it has been noticeable on MB since the S-Class from two generations ago, it became much more prevalent around the 46s from Bee-Emm, and wherever you look around the industry you'll find examples of it. Not really avoidable with new cars. Live and let live.

TD
05-28-2006, 09:08 PM
What Saab (yr/model) did you drive?

Jason C
05-28-2006, 09:21 PM
What Saab (yr/model) did you drive?


2005 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon. 5-speed slushie with navi. Nice two-tone tan and black interior. Saab leather have always made their interiors smell special, compared to Benz/BMW/Lexus, which come off as very clinical.

TD
05-28-2006, 09:27 PM
2005 Saab 9-5 Aero Wagon. 5-speed slushie with navi. Nice two-tone tan and black interior. Saab leather have always made their interiors smell special, compared to Benz/BMW/Lexus, which come off as very clinical.
I wonder what all has changed from the '00 MY to '05.

Ours does not have NAV (it wasn't even an option in '00) but ours is a stick.

At this moment (subject to change by tomorrow) I'm inclined to keep ours for a while instead of buying the V70R.

FC
05-28-2006, 09:40 PM
PS: You can see from the attachment a mostly accurate depiction of Rallye Red as seen in person. Just like BMWs Terra interior, for some reason cameras tend to really bring out the (non-existent?) orange in RR. Another reminder today to check out colors in person, on an actual car, before passing judgement.

Nice red paint indeed, particularly for a Civic. Looks like a slightly lighter shade of Imola. IMO, the real test of a red paint is for it to not look pink/orange under direct sunlight. Imola looks gorgeous under the sun and a deep blood red under shade. But I really have to keep it clean/glossy to look great.

Jason C
05-28-2006, 09:42 PM
I wonder what all has changed from the '00 MY to '05.

Ours does not have NAV (it wasn't even an option in '00) but ours is a stick.

At this moment (subject to change by tomorrow) I'm inclined to keep ours for a while instead of buying the V70R.


Not that much changed iirc. Saab made a boasting point on 1025 or so changes/improvements/etc, but it was mostly a mild facelift in 2002 with a bump in performance from the B235R to 250hp/258ft-lbs. The best addition imo were beefier sport seats on the Aero trim. Plus a 5-speed slushie instead of 4. Oh, and nice simple 5-spokes, the OEM standard Aero wheels on the pre-facelift was horrid. The BBS option you have is still the best looking imo but much more hard to clean than ours.

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/class/photos/1885/1.jpg

http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/class/photos/1852/1.jpg

Ours looks very similar (just that it's a black wagon). More info can be found here: http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/models/2002/

lemming
05-28-2006, 11:12 PM
i've come to the conclusion that SAAB powertrains tend to favor the 5 speed automatic.

i like the aero 9-5 wagon in the 5spd auto almost better than the 5spd manual because the gear spacing seems better --i also think the 6spd auto in the 9-3 sportkombi aero works better than the clunky 6spd aisin unit.