View Full Version : Test-drove V70R
I was able to convince my wife to go test-drive the V70R. It was supposed to be a MT, but they had just sold it. They happened to have a brand-spanking new V70R slushy (which is what my wife wants anyway).
Keep in mind I've driven my parents' V70 XC a bunch of times so I'm familiar with many aspects fo the car.
Anyhow, I drove first. Leather, steering wheel, instruments, seats all better than my parents. I was not able to push it very much since my wife was not feeling well. Still, it felt far more composed than the XC with far less body roll (go figure), dive, and just generally more than enough handling prowess for a family vehicle. The AWD was good enough to completely mask the FWD-bias even on weird elevation changes and hitting the gas at "inoportune" times. I, and more importantly, my wife, was very impressed with the variable suspension settings. We drove over a crappy road and effect was immediate and very noticeable.
The biggest surprise was how less numb the car felt. Trully very different from the XC. Less thottle lag, far better tranny, and a lot of thrust at low rpms with 3 people in the car (no discernable turbo lag). Brakes were also more communicative, but not quite like my 330i. This could just be because the car had 10 miles. I don't doubt the Brembos are great brakes.
My wife expressed concern over the low and long front overhang. She still thinks Volvo's are ugly and this car, despite the nice dark interior and navy exterior, was no exception.
We stopped by the MB dealership to test-drive the '04 E500 wagon but it was inside the shoroom so no dice. It took just sitting in it for my wife to say, "We're not getting the Volvo. This wagon is so much nicer."
A bit unfair since the E500 lists for 15K more, but still she rather have a 2-year-old CPO E500 than a new V70R for the same $$$. It really does feel more upscale and has many more features, like 3 more cylinders and 2X the displacement. Fuel consumption in the V70R does not make a good case vs the E500 and the variable height/suspension and shorter overhang pretty much has buried the V70R as an option if we are willing to spend enough to get near a CPO E-wagon.
Of course, we've not yet driven the E500, but we drove an E350 a while back and we liked it (but it was literally off the truck and was not a representative drive). Thinking back, the V70R felt a lot more fun than the E350, but an E500 has better brakes, a better engine, and a better air suspension. We'll have to wait to know for sure.
I still liked the V70R enough that I would pay the premium over an Outback if we decide to spend so much. If I were TD (needed a MT), I'd be all over it.
lemming
05-21-2006, 08:01 PM
in true waffle fashion, because everything that's on the market now just sucks, i'm inclined to keep what i have.
but i may migrate in the future to an E wagen. i prefer the interior of the E wagen, too. i prefer cubic inches to turbocharging these days, too.
Sharp11
05-21-2006, 09:01 PM
I was not able to push it very much since my wife was not feeling well.
Funny how they do that after we've convinced them to go for a test drive.
Ed
I was not able to push it very much since my wife was not feeling well.
Are you SURE there nothing that she's not telling you...? :? ;)
Are you SURE there nothing that she's not telling you...? :? ;)
LOL.
lemming
05-21-2006, 09:42 PM
LOL.
so if money wasn't a factor --would it be the merc or the R wagon?
i'm just curious.
i'm resigned mentally to not being able to get an automatic all that easily and i also know that manuals hurt resale (for the most part).
so if money wasn't a factor --would it be the merc or the R wagon?
i'm just curious.
i'm resigned mentally to not being able to get an automatic all that easily and i also know that manuals hurt resale (for the most part).
If I had to have one of this cars as my daily driver or my only car and it were only my decision, it would be a manual R, no question.
As things stand, it would be a new E500 if money were no object.
...And of course, if we lived in the south and money were no object, it would be the rare E55 AMG wagon.:D
If I had to have one of this cars as my daily driver or my only car and it were only my decision, it would be a manual R, no question.
As things stand, it would be a new E500 if money were no object.
...And of course, if we lived in the south and money were no object, it would be the rare E55 AMG wagon.:D
Wait for the E63.
Wait for the E63.
The E350 4-Matic will be the only wagon Mercedes will offer going forward starting with 2007.
rumatt
05-21-2006, 11:09 PM
Are you SURE there nothing that she's not telling you...? :? ;)
:lol:
Sharp11
05-22-2006, 02:36 AM
...And of course, if we lived in the south and money were no object, it would be the rare E55 AMG wagon.:D
I think the AMG's only come in auto, no?
Ed
lemming
05-22-2006, 06:22 AM
I think the AMG's only come in auto, no?
Ed
yup. and always will be, for better or for worse.
The E350 4-Matic will be the only wagon Mercedes will offer going forward starting with 2007.
Available as a sedan or wagon, the E63 is expected to retail for about the same price as current E55s, around $83,000, despite the fair amount of new and revised components being introduced across the E-Class line, which in the U.S. consists of the E320 Bluetec sedan, E350 sedan and seven-passenger wagon, E550 sedan and the E63 sedan and wagon.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=115406#7
:dunno:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=115406#7
:dunno:
Oh, maybe the E63 AMG. I was thinking "regular cars."
I saw dealer info on non-AMG E-class cars and there was only one wagon available, the E350. No E550, 382hp wagon.
I need AWD, so that wont work. Plus it would be laughably expensive at 80K+. Still, the ~200 E55 wagons must have been well received if they are willing to import more AMG wagons. That is interesting.
lemming
05-22-2006, 09:00 AM
Oh, maybe the E63 AMG. I was thinking "regular cars."
I saw dealer info on non-AMG E-class cars and there was only one wagon available, the E350. No E550, 382hp wagon.
I need AWD, so that wont work. Plus it would be laughably expensive at 80K+. Still, the ~200 E55 wagons must have been well received if they are willing to import more AMG wagons. That is interesting.
i'd be more than happy plodding around in the E350 4matic --the v70R is still nice so i'd have to seriously consider it. it would boil down to how well the vehicles get moving from a standstill because that's where i hate turbos the most.
i'd be more than happy plodding around in the E350 4matic --the v70R is still nice so i'd have to seriously consider it. it would boil down to how well the vehicles get moving from a standstill because that's where i hate turbos the most.
The turbo in the V70R does hit early (unlike our Saab) with no real noticeable lag. It doesn't have an exciting power band, but it has a lot of power and it's available right off the line.
My review of the S60R that TD and I drove:
http://www.teamwtf.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=98&Itemid=93
05 Volvo S60R
Volvo presents a car designed by IKEA, which is not a bad thing. The interior is very well executed, the seats supportive and comfortable, and there are lots of nice details like the extended leather on the dash and the blue metallic gauges.
After romping on the gas through the first two gears, the only thing I could say is "Huh." It's fast, yes, but the engine has absolutely no soul. Imagine an industrial power plant, like one of the MAN diesels that they put into freighters, and you get an idea of what this engine is like. It delivers substantial power, but there's no joyful buzz to the redline, no surge of boost, no buzz and clatter from the valvetrain--just a somewhat pronounced roar and good acceleration.
The shifter is surprisingly good, close-coupled and slick, despite the strange "Spaceball" shift gaiter. The suspension has three modes, Comfort, Sport and Advanced, which roughly translate to "Buick," "ZHP" and "Fuck Your Kidneys, Bitch." Handling in either Sport or Advanced is acceptable; on the slalom course, it's clear that the S60 is a lot more car than the Mini, and it resolutely refuses to do anything like rotate its tail, but roll control and response are generally good.
The steering is much, much better than on the T5, but has variable assist that is annoying at low speeds. Steering feel at higher speeds is muted. The brakes, which are multi-pot Brembos with decent rotors, stop the car with authority.
Drive this car at 8 or 9/10s, and it feels like you are beating on it. Drive it at 5/10s, and it gains some fluidity, and it starts to become a willing partner. In wagon form, as family transport for someone who likes to drive fast on the street, this car makes a lot of sense. At the same time, thinking about it a bit more, the Legacy GT is hugely cheaper, just as fast or faster, also has AWD, and has a nicer engine. The interior in the Leg GT isn't as nice, but it isn't a penalty box, either.
Drive this car at 8 or 9/10s, and it feels like you are beating on it. Drive it at 5/10s, and it gains some fluidity, and it starts to become a willing partner. In wagon form, as family transport for someone who likes to drive fast on the street, this car makes a lot of sense. At the same time, thinking about it a bit more, the Legacy GT is hugely cheaper, just as fast or faster, also has AWD, and has a nicer engine. The interior in the Leg GT isn't as nice, but it isn't a penalty box, either.
I drove it at most at 5/10s, and it was a great vehicle. I'm sure I'd agree with everything else you wrote had I driven it harder.
I've not driven the Legacy GT, and I'm sure performance-wise I can agree with what you say about a more engaging drive train, better bang/buck ratio, etc. But as far as creature comfort, features, room, etc, I think the V70R is in a different league. And I'm comparing it to an LL Bean's interior/features.
I drove it at most at 5/10s, and it was a great vehicle. I'm sure I'd agree with everything else you wrote had I driven it harder.
I've not driven the Legacy GT, and I'm sure performance-wise I can agree with what you say about a more engaging drive train, better bang/buck ratio, etc. But as far as creature comfort, features, room, etc, I think the V70R is in a different league. And I'm comparing it to an LL Bean's interior/features.
Throw in the built-in second row boosters and available pop-up third row seat and the V70R is essentially in a class of one.
Remembering JST's and my drive of the S60R, the car is lacking as a sports sedan. But for a family truckster in wagon form (where 6/10ths is probably the most you'll see), it's pretty slick.
Cargo space cargo space cargo space.
Depending on what you are going to use the car for, I doubt the Mercedes can compare (but I haven't looked at them specifically, so I am speculating).
Cargo space cargo space cargo space.
Depending on what you are going to use the car for, I doubt the Mercedes can compare (but I haven't looked at them specifically, so I am speculating).
The Mercedes has a bit more cargo space than the Volvo. The MB also offers 3rd seating standard as opposed to it being a ~$1800 dealer-installed option (asked yesterday). As far as cockpit space, they are both very roomy. To close to call, IMO.
I've become a stickler for braking feel lately. Through '06, E-classes have the DBW brakes. I wasn't an issue when I drove the E350, but I drove it gently and it was an '06. If the '04 E500 is completely devoid of all feel, that may affect my vote.
Again, I would want a good test drive of the '04 E500 before making any calls.
The Mercedes has a bit more cargo space than the Volvo. The MB also offers 3rd seating standard as opposed to it being a ~$1800 dealer-installed option (asked yesterday). As far as cockpit space, they are both very roomy. To close to call, IMO.
I've become a stickler for braking feel lately. Through '06, E-classes have the DBW brakes. I wasn't an issue when I drove the E350, but I drove it gently and it was an '06. If the '04 E500 is completely devoid of all feel, that may affect my vote.
Again, I would want a good test drive of the '04 E500 before making any calls.
The third row is an accessory you can order for ~$400 and install yourself in a couple of hours. The official dealer price is supposed to be $1000. $1800 is a dealer ripoff.
The third row is an accessory you can order for ~$400 and install yourself in a couple of hours. The official dealer price is supposed to be $1000. $1800 is a dealer ripoff.
Should have guessed.:rolleyes: :irate:
Regardless, I have no use for them in the near future, but I appreciate the Volvo's and MB's availability of them.
But then you need to add the seat belts. :p I think the cost was $1800 sticker and $1200 invoice for our car. I suppose it could have been $1200 and $800 b/c it was a long time ago, but I don't think so.
I didn't realize the MB wagons were that much bigger than the BWM wagons. I would never pay that kind of money for one, but now I want to go check them out.
But then you need to add the seat belts. :p I think the cost was $1800 sticker and $1200 invoice for our car. I suppose it could have been $1200 and $800 b/c it was a long time ago, but I don't think so.
I didn't realize the MB wagons were that much bigger than the BWM wagons. I would never pay that kind of money for one, but now I want to go check them out.
Yeah, they are pretty roomy. And yes they are VERY pricey. A nicely spec'ed E350 4M is over 60K. That is why I am only considering one CPO and even then they are still expensive.
MB wagons have always had very roomy cargo areas, even the W124 wagons (despite the cockpit not beng that roomy).
lemming
05-22-2006, 04:04 PM
Yeah, they are pretty roomy. And yes they are VERY pricey. A nicely spec'ed E350 4M is over 60K. That is why I am only considering one CPO and even then they are still expensive.
MB wagons have always had very roomy cargo areas, even the W124 wagons (despite the cockpit not beng that roomy).
DC is better for me than a FordMoCo vehicle is. there is no logic in that other than the simple truth that it is.
DC is better for me than a FordMoCo vehicle is. there is no logic in that other than the simple truth that it is.
I would have agreed with that statement in a heartbeat before we had the Volvo and I watched the service history of my parent's Mercedes. The Volvo is a great car for what it is (and it doesn't hurt that we got it for like 22k and a Civic that needed work and had 180k miles on it). We have no complaints and Kelley loves it. Mercedes, on the other hand, seems to have worked very hard at getting their quality level down to Chrysler standards. The CLKs are in the shop all the time. And they don't get driven that much.
But, the Mercedes are nicer inside, no question.
lemming
05-22-2006, 06:19 PM
I would have agreed with that statement in a heartbeat before we had the Volvo and I watched the service history of my parent's Mercedes. The Volvo is a great car for what it is (and it doesn't hurt that we got it for like 22k and a Civic that needed work and had 180k miles on it). We have no complaints and Kelley loves it. Mercedes, on the other hand, seems to have worked very hard at getting their quality level down to Chrysler standards. The CLKs are in the shop all the time. And they don't get driven that much.
But, the Mercedes are nicer inside, no question.
i wasn't really making any comment about DC or Ford products in general; it was more from a GM-o-phile viewpoint it's a lot easier to park a DC product than a Ford product in the driveway.
i wasn't really making any comment about DC or Ford products in general; it was more from a GM-o-phile viewpoint it's a lot easier to park a DC product than a Ford product in the driveway.
I don't think I am an anything-phile, but I have to admit that I am partial to Mercedes vehicles and was a benz-phile since I was a kid until about ~2000 (for a variety of reasons I wont bore you guys with). So I will always give MB the benefit of the doubt.
Still, the only way I will consider a late-model MB is under warranty and with assurances I will get a nice loaner whenever it is in for service/repair.
My parents, OTOH, had a VERY bad experiece with their Volvo.
Jason C
05-22-2006, 07:31 PM
but I have to admit that I am partial to Mercedes vehicles
Never would have guessed it.
Never would have guessed it.
:lol:
lemming
05-22-2006, 09:25 PM
i don't think i could trust an engine with only 2.5 litres to sufficiently motivate something that weighs 3800 pounds convincingly under load. that's my major mental block to the V70R.
the achilles heel of any turbocharged engine is during heat soak, on a hot day, with the AC running on full. i remember those moments dearly and that's why i prefer naturally aspirated engines with cubic inches.
The 3800 pounds of our V70 moves along fine without the turbo. It's not fast and it doesn't handle well, but it has enough power to get out of it's own way and merge onto highways comfortably and whatnot.
You should test drive the 530xi wagon and the A6 wagon ... also try out the R350 ... I drove my friends the other day and though it's a little funky looking, it drove great and had a lot of great features for the kiddes ...
Mercedes in general are missing that special something that BMW & Audi have IMO ... I remember about a year ago having my fathers CLK500 for a couple of months sitting in my driveway and eventhough the car was fast as hell it just didn't have that feeling of 'drive me' but then again it is going to be your wife's car so it doesn't need to scream 'drive me'
BTW For some reason the R350 felt like a big step in the right direction
rumatt
05-23-2006, 05:31 PM
Never would have guessed it.
:lol:
You should test drive the 530xi wagon and the A6 wagon ... also try out the R350 ... I drove my friends the other day and though it's a little funky looking, it drove great and had a lot of great features for the kiddes ...
Mercedes in general are missing that special something that BMW & Audi have IMO ... I remember about a year ago having my fathers CLK500 for a couple of months sitting in my driveway and eventhough the car was fast as hell it just didn't have that feeling of 'drive me' but then again it is going to be your wife's car so it doesn't need to scream 'drive me'
BTW For some reason the R350 felt like a big step in the right direction
For a bunch of reasons, we are setting the upper limit to ~45K. That takes care of the 530Xi. I also hate the E60's (though Tourings look ok from the back).
The Audi A6 looks ok, but is also expensive. Maybe worth a drive just for kicks. If I go the Audi route, I rather wait for the new allroad. I'm not excited enough about an A6 to fork out A6 money, I guess. But I'm not totally ruling it out. I just test-drive the V70R now is because it is hard to find one in stock.
My wife thinks the R350 is hideous. No way.
Sharp11
05-23-2006, 05:51 PM
For a bunch of reasons, we are setting the upper limit to ~45K. That takes care of the 530Xi. I also hate the E60's (though Tourings look ok from the back).
The Audi A6 looks ok, but is also expensive. Maybe worth a drive just for kicks. If I go the Audi route, I rather wait for the new allroad. I'm not excited enough about an A6 to fork out A6 money, I guess. But I'm not totally ruling it out. I just test-drive the V70R now is because it is hard to find one in stock.
My wife thinks the R350 is hideous. No way.
I drove the 325xi at the Komen drive, it was pretty nice.
It was by no means sporty, but the thing was comfortable and solidly built.
I'd at least give it a look, it should come in well within your price range.
Ed
I drove the 325xi at the Komen drive, it was pretty nice.
It was by no means sporty, but the thing was comfortable and solidly built.
I'd at least give it a look, it should come in well within your price range.
Ed
Kinda small though and weak. But I have considered it. I may still test-drive it before we make a decision over the next year.
Explain to me how a 325Xi in any way would fill the role of either of the large Mercedes or Volvo wagons?
lemming
05-24-2006, 06:48 AM
Explain to me how a 325Xi in any way would fill the role of either of the large Mercedes or Volvo wagons?
it couldn't really. the 3 wagons have no more space than a mazda 3 give or take a little bit. it's a much nicer car.
look, i'm not saying that the v70r won't flat out open up a can of whupass on any of the aforementioned cars (it will), my opinion was that the turbo would drive me nuts over time (as it has in the past with lighter vehicles).
in my commute, i rarely see the top 1/3 of my rev range, so i'd rather drive a locomotive with some space. i've given up on something fast or quick. :dunno:
Well, we got the check for the 323iC yesterday (although the car doesn't actually drive off until tomorrow). So the hunt for the V70R now begins in earnest.
Sharp11
05-24-2006, 05:08 PM
Well, we got the check for the 323iC yesterday (although the car doesn't actually drive off until tomorrow). So the hunt for the V70R now begins in earnest.
Why the R version, why not get the regular V70? Didn't you say it's a nice car driven at 6/10s?
Seems to me, on a car this large and heavy, all the R version will give you is a harder ride and some nicer looking instruments.
Ed
Why the R version, why not get the regular V70? Didn't you say it's a nice car driven at 6/10s?
Seems to me, on a car this large and heavy, all the R version will give you is a harder ride and some nicer looking instruments.
Ed
Because that's not what we want.
We are not typical buyers. Give me a car without a sports suspension and I get carsick from the floatiness. My wife, who may not actually achieve nausea from a typical family car suspension, still greatly prefers a firm ride. We both HATE FWD. We both appreciate lots of power. And we both insist on a manual tranny.
If AWD, a lot more power and a manual tranny don't register on your list of differences between a regular V70 and the V70R, I guess my explanation still probably doesn't make any sense to you.
lemming
05-24-2006, 05:23 PM
Because that's not what we want.
We are not typical buyers. Give me a car without a sports suspension and I get carsick from the floatiness. My wife, who may not actually achieve nausea from a typical family car suspension, still greatly prefers a firm ride. We both HATE FWD. We both appreciate lots of power. And we both insist on a manual tranny.
If AWD, a lot more power and a manual tranny don't register on your list of differences between a regular V70 and the V70R, I guess my explanation still probably doesn't make any sense to you.
relax, TD.
:)
i'm hoping you get a V70R and beta-test for me.
relax, TD.
:)
i'm hoping you get a V70R and beta-test for me.
Sorry.
I was actually sort of floored by that comment.
Sharp11
05-24-2006, 05:34 PM
Because that's not what we want.
We are not typical buyers. Give me a car without a sports suspension and I get carsick from the floatiness. My wife, who may not actually achieve nausea from a typical family car suspension, still greatly prefers a firm ride. We both HATE FWD. We both appreciate lots of power. And we both insist on a manual tranny.
If AWD, a lot more power and a manual tranny don't register on your list of differences between a regular V70 and the V70R, I guess my explanation still probably doesn't make any sense to you.
The V70 used to be available in AWD, I'd forgotten it's no longer.
As for the power, I guess you have a point there.
FWD in a family car doesn't bug me at all, in a sports car or sports sedan, yes, but in a family car there are advantages in terms of packaging.
Ed
The V70 used to be available in AWD, I'd forgotten it's no longer.
As for the power, I guess you have a point there.
FWD in a family car doesn't bug me at all, in a sports car or sports sedan, yes, but in a family car there are advantages in terms of packaging.
Ed
We have that now.
Our Saab 9-5 Aero, while not sports car firm, rides firmer than most family cars and it has a stick and a decent amount of power.
I hate FWD. I speculated that I wouldn't care about FWD on the "family truckster" when we bought it. Well, I do.
And more power is always better. Granted I think my 255HP 330i is underpowered.
The V70 used to be available in AWD, I'd forgotten it's no longer.
:dunno: They just call it the XC70. It's a V70 with AWD. It's no R though. I don't think it's available with a manual, either (unlike the regular V70).
:dunno: They just call it the XC70. It's a V70 with AWD. It's no R though. I don't think it's available with a manual, either (unlike the regular V70).
No manual. On paper the engine specs look good. Somehow it has got a '95 sable LS wagon-way of the engine not playing well with the tranny (my parents traded the Sable for the XC70). The manumatic mode is downright enfuriating (unlike the V70R which was acceptable). Delays, lags, and numbness are the name of the game with the XC70. But at 3/10ths, on relaxed drives, it is tremendously competent and works like a swiss-army knife.
I hated it, but let my wife drive it and said to myself it's so good, if she likes it, I may rollover and consider it. It took 2 minutes for her to say it sucked and complain about the suspension floatiness.
lemming
05-25-2006, 07:00 PM
No manual. On paper the engine specs look good. Somehow it has got a '95 sable LS wagon-way of the engine not playing well with the tranny (my parents traded the Sable for the XC70). The manumatic mode is downright enfuriating (unlike the V70R which was acceptable). Delays, lags, and numbness are the name of the game with the XC70. But at 3/10ths, on relaxed drives, it is tremendously competent and works like a swiss-army knife.
I hated it, but let my wife drive it and said to myself it's so good, if she likes it, I may rollover and consider it. It took 2 minutes for her to say it sucked and complain about the suspension floatiness.
you'd like the dynamics of the fx a lot.
it's a really good handling vehicle. it can do a lot of things most cars can't do.
:D (DSC off, of course).
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