View Full Version : Family beater: 2001-02 E430?
As unyielding as my devotion to the manual transmission is, I've been tossing around the idea of a family car that I just don't care about, that has decent space, has perhaps only two pedals, that we could run into parking garages without having to fix, but that when I drive I don't get violently angry (which, it seems to me, rules out the Accord, Camry, or any other similar car).
In that vein, the previous generation E class is intriguing. The E430 has a surprisingly powerful V8 (275 hp, IIRC) and can be had with AWD. The used market is flooded with these cars, and they are all selling in the 20K range. They are old enough to have experienced lots of depreciation, but new enough that they have most of the latest safety gee gaws.
I haven't driven one since a 2001 ride and drive, and while I wasn't hugely impressed, I remember that it didn't piss me off as much as the SLK or C430.
Anyone have any experience with these cars? Not seriously in the market yet--just ruminating.
Don't you already have 2 $20k sedans?
Nick M3
05-17-2006, 10:19 AM
They're solid vehicles. Comfortable and decent to drive, but boring. It probably didn't piss you off because it wasn't trying to pretend to be sporty, something that Mercedes likes to do. I beat the hell out of a '99 E320 4Matic for two years, and the worst that happened was a broken sway bar.
I think we can all agree that that's an impressive record. :p
I saw an AWD E320 wagon out at the Rockville Carmax last week (when we were up getting the Saab appraised). 2003 MY IIRC, with 3rd row seat for ~$30K. I pointed it out to Tonya but the absence of a stick was a deal-breaker for her.
Don't you already have 2 $20k sedans?
This would replace the Audi, when the time comes, which is not for a while yet.
I saw an AWD E320 wagon out at the Rockville Carmax last week (when we were up getting the Saab appraised). 2003 MY IIRC, with 3rd row seat for ~$30K. I pointed it out to Tonya but the absence of a stick was a deal-breaker for her.
That and a new Outback 3.0R remain or main contenders if we don't want to break 30K on a larger wagon next year.
JST: They are pretty solid cars, but every once in a while things go wrong and they are not cheap. Go figure. Not unlike any other high-end German car.
lemming
05-17-2006, 06:00 PM
right there with you, JST.
am starting to think that a more affordable, less maintenance-intensive, less-depreciating daily driver (since i put on at least 40miles a day) would be a good idea for me.
there are a lot of 4matic wagons around here that i'm really starting to get interested in.
'Nando, any dealers in particular that you would use? FMW? Clair's new MB site in your neighborhood?
right there with you, JST.
am starting to think that a more affordable, less maintenance-intensive, less-depreciating daily driver (since i put on at least 40miles a day) would be a good idea for me.
there are a lot of 4matic wagons around here that i'm really starting to get interested in.
'Nando, any dealers in particular that you would use? FMW? Clair's new MB site in your neighborhood?
Clair's is the most impressive dealership I've ever seen. Period. Never dealt with them, but they seem cordial, not pushy, etc.
W210's (1998-2003 for US wagons) are starting to be somewhat hard to find at MB dealerships now. There are tons at high-end used car lots though.
Clair's is the most impressive dealership I've ever seen. Period. Never dealt with them, but they seem cordial, not pushy, etc.
W210's (1998-2003 for US wagons) are starting to be somewhat hard to find at MB dealerships now. There are tons at high-end used car lots though.
MBR, since you are the repository of much MBZ knowledge, was the 4.3 V8 ever offered in the wagon here in the states? What about AWD with that engine in the wagon? Mercedes' anemic 3.2 V6 sounds like a yawn factory in a car as heavy as the E-class.
Nick M3
05-17-2006, 06:17 PM
MBR, since you are the repository of much MBZ knowledge, was the 4.3 V8 ever offered in the wagon here in the states? What about AWD with that engine in the wagon? Mercedes' anemic 3.2 V6 sounds like a yawn factory in a car as heavy as the E-class.
No, the V8 was not available in the wagon here. The engine was surprisingly adequate, though. It would get up and go decently and it never had any trouble maintaining 90 on the highway.
MBR, since you are the repository of much MBZ knowledge, was the 4.3 V8 ever offered in the wagon here in the states? What about AWD with that engine in the wagon? Mercedes' anemic 3.2 V6 sounds like a yawn factory in a car as heavy as the E-class.
Sorry, no V8 in a wagon. Actually, for 2007+ they will not be offered either (and no RWD for the wagons either - only E350 4-Matic wagons will be offered). So if you want a V8 MB wagon, only the E500 2004-2006 wagons will do.
I agree on the V6 on a 4000lb slushy wagon. It will probably offer performance similar to my 190E 2.6. It will move the car adequately, but not quickly.
That is why I refuse to look at "new" 2004-2005 E320 wagons. It's E350's or nothing if I pony up for the newer wagons.
lemming
05-17-2006, 07:20 PM
Sorry, no V8 in a wagon. Actually, for 2007+ they will not be offered either (and no RWD of the wagons either - only E350 4-Matic wagons will be offered). So if you want a V8 MB wagon, only the E500 2004-2006 wagons will do.
I agree on the V6 on a 4000lb slushy wagon. It will probably offer performance similar to my 190E 2.6. It will move the car adequately, but will not quickly.
That is why I refuse to look at "new" 2004-2005 E320 wagons. It's E350's or nothing of I pony up for the newer wagons.
actually, the more i think about it, even an E wagen seems decadent to me. i wouldn't mind an outback xt (slushie even) just to grind through the commute. i hate those goddamn windows without frames, though.
actually, the more i think about it, even an E wagen seems decadent to me. i wouldn't mind an outback xt (slushie even) just to grind through the commute. i hate those goddamn windows without frames, though.
I hate them too. The biggest issue I have with getting an Outback is that it's a Subaru. There just not getting around the fact that they are a cheaper car. My Saabaru gets to me because it is "cheap." After driving nothing but MB's and my BMW, I can just tell. Even my POS '85 190D was more substantial. Hard to explain. Still, it is extremely practical and cheap to own.
Sharp11
05-17-2006, 09:05 PM
I hate them too. The biggest issue I have with getting an Outback is that it's a Subaru. There just not getting around the fact that they are a cheaper car. My Saabaru gets to me because it is "cheap." After driving nothing but MB's and my BMW, I can just tell. Even my POS '85 190D was more substantial. Hard to explain. Still, it is extremely practical and cheap to own.
Our Outback feels every bit as solid and substantial as my old E46 did - in fact, in some ways, more so (the steering for instance; bumps don't make the wheel shimmy in your hands).
It's one of the newer 05's.
Ed
Our Outback feels every bit as solid and substantial as my old E46 did - in fact, in some ways, more so (the steering for instance; bumps don't make the wheel shimmy in your hands).
It's one of the newer 05's.
Ed
I've test-driven the '05 Outback LL Bean, and while it is a great car it is still no on par with my 330i. :dunno:
Sharp11
05-17-2006, 11:38 PM
I've test-driven the '05 Outback LL Bean, and while it is a great car it is still no on par with my 330i. :dunno:
It's not finished quite as well and it's not as dynamically refined, but it's built really well and it's just as substantial and perhaps (I believe) more so - I've not heard of sub-frame failures and bulging shock crowns on Outbacks - and this on a car that most likely finds itself on rougher terrain than the average E46.
A test drive is nice, but it's not the same thing as owning both cars - it's only then you begin to appreciate (or become disappointed) with the differences.
Ed
lemming
05-18-2006, 07:03 AM
It's not finished quite as well and it's not as dynamically refined, but it's built really well and it's just as substantial and perhaps (I believe) more so - I've not heard of sub-frame failures and bulging shock crowns on Outbacks - and this on a car that most likely finds itself on rougher terrain than the average E46.
A test drive is nice, but it's not the same thing as owning both cars - it's only then you begin to appreciate (or become disappointed) with the differences.
Ed
i really like the new legacy/outback chassis --it's the most sophisticated one that subaru builds.
i just hate the fact that subaru won't build cars with framed windows. i don't know why this bothers me, but it irks me.
not a deal breaker (not like iDrive).
A test drive is nice, but it's not the same thing as owning both cars - it's only then you begin to appreciate (or become disappointed) with the differences.
This is true. Maybe I just prefer more "German" cars. I don't know. I know the brakes weren't great, the slushy was good left alone but shody in manumatic mode, the suspension not as well sorted, etc.
I know I'm not being fair when comparing it to a $55K+ wagon (now worth ~$30K), but you get a long list of little details and features in an E-wagon that you don't in an Outback.
A friend was considering the 00-05 S-Class so just spent some time on mbworld.org. Looks like the 97-99 S'es might be better than 00-02... And when things go wrong, it sounds even worse than bmw's.
Sharp11
05-18-2006, 10:14 AM
I know I'm not being fair when comparing it to a $55K+ wagon (now worth ~$30K), but you get a long list of little details and features in an E-wagon that you don't in an Outback.
Resale values on MB's have plummeted lately. It could be that "long list of details" turning into a long list of headaches for many owners.
I'm not certain why anyone would want to go with a 2001 E series Merc save for the prestige - there's nothing at all practical about it and up here it's a car traditionally bought by dentists and doctors - many of whom are retired.
Ed
IndyMike
05-18-2006, 10:39 AM
I'm not certain why anyone would want to go with a 2001 E series Merc save for the prestige - there's nothing at all practical about it
Ed
:+1
Of course, if there is one vehicle I wouldn't give a doodily squat about it would be the this kind of Merc. However, I don't consider myself to be a stodgy, old fuddy-duddy, Mr Magoo type yet.
If I were looking for a barge in the $20k range I would definitely consider the Magnum R/T. It's definitely got girth and don't forget the Hemi under the hood. I've seen 2006's in the mid 20's. So I'd assume a 2004 or 2005 can be had for $20k.
Resale values on MB's have plummeted lately. It could be that "long list of details" turning into a long list of headaches for many owners.
I'm not certain why anyone would want to go with a 2001 E series Merc save for the prestige - there's nothing at all practical about it and up here it's a car traditionally bought by dentists and doctors - many of whom are retired.
Ed
What's not practical? It's big, it's got a V8, and its AWD.
Nick M3
05-18-2006, 11:23 AM
What's not practical? It's big, it's got a V8, and its AWD.
It doesn't have a three pedal option for him to reject.
Sharp11
05-18-2006, 11:40 AM
What's not practical? It's big, it's got a V8, and its AWD.
Does it really have more usable room than, say, a Honda Accord?
The AWD is nice, but is it necessary? Especially with stability control. It just makes a heavy car heavier.
As for the V8; it's a heavy car, so it's not as if the 8 is going to jump out at you with massive acceleration.
My wife's uncle had one of these (in wagon form) and I've driven it a bit. I was unimpressed with the build quality, it rattled and shook in a way that was a bit surprising for a car in this class. I suspect the sedan's a bit more solid.
If you buy one of these, I almost guarantee you'll be getting rid of it within a year. ;)
Ed
Sharp11
05-18-2006, 11:43 AM
It doesn't have a three pedal option for him to reject.
Ha ha, one of the nice things about getting older is not having to convince yourself you're having fun doing "manly" things like rowing through a notchy and imprecise BMW gearbox. lol
Having said that, the new Miata's six speed box rocks!!
Ed
Does it really have more usable room than, say, a Honda Accord?
The AWD is nice, but is it necessary? Especially with stability control. It just makes a heavy car heavier.
As for the V8; it's a heavy car, so it's not as if the 8 is going to jump out at you with massive acceleration.
My wife's uncle had one of these (in wagon form) and I've driven it a bit. I was unimpressed with the build quality, it rattled and shook in a way that was a bit surprising for a car in this class. I suspect the sedan's a bit more solid.
If you buy one of these, I almost guarantee you'll be getting rid of it within a year. ;)
Ed
Accords and Camrys make me irrationally angry. I can't explain it--I just know it to be true. Odysseys and Siennas are slightly worse, but not much. I can't own a car like this, and (given the choice of almost literally anything else) I won't spend money on one.
The E class is heavy, but according to the spec panel on Edmunds no more so than you'd expect from a mid-sized, feature rich sedan.
As I said, I haven't driven one in a long time, but as Nick points out, I recall from my drive that it was nice enough, in large measure because it wasn't trying to be something that it isn't. It's a boring sedan. Mercedes makes (and has always made) great boring sedans. An extensive test drive would be part of the program before any actual purchase.
As for AWD...probably not necessary, though the peace of mind of AWD is useful for stakeholders in my family other than me.
The 300C is a logical alternative, and one worth exploring.
lemming
05-18-2006, 12:20 PM
the appeal of the 4matic wagon to me is that as a brand new vehicle, it's really expensive. as a preowned unit, it's a tank.
nothing fast or exciting about it.
i'm really enjoying CTS_V ownership, so i'm not one to move quickly here. i enjoy driving every day in that car and i dunno how much i'd have to fool myself to move into something that is dynamically worse just for fuel economy or space concerns.
Sharp11
05-18-2006, 12:32 PM
The 300C is a logical alternative, and one worth exploring.
It does share the same basic chassis, no?
Also, wait for the new interiors, I read recently Chrysler's doing a major interior upgrade as poor quality of plastics has been the single biggest complaint on these cars.
As for the E class Mercs, I do understand the appeal of a big, stolid German sedan, but reliability on these has been pretty bad, make certain, if you go this route, you either get a decent cpo or factor a few extra thou for an extended warranty.
Now, as for Accords and Camrys making you irrationally angry there is therapy for that, you can get in line right behind TD for his various pathologies lol (just stick-poking you guys).
Ed
JST if you drove an E class and you like it then get it ... no matter what car you bring up on the internet, others are going to give you reasons why they don't like it. Meanwhile 99% of people out there would not only love an E430 but if given the choice would pick it over a Honda Accord any day of the week.
Plus I don't care what anyone says, prestige plays a factor here and nothing is wrong with it ... fortunately you are able to afford this car and should be proud of the fact you are financially able to ...
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