Hack Investigates: The ZHP Exposed!

[The HACK]

:roll:

You want me to post our findings this weekend wrt to ZHP suspension parts? That'll really rile a few things up and heat up this place.. :D

[Plaz]

:roll:

You want me to post our findings this weekend wrt to ZHP suspension parts? That'll really rile a few things up and heat up this place.. :D

Yes!

I don't see the virtue in withholding truth. :dunno:

[clyde]

:roll:

You want me to post our findings this weekend wrt to ZHP suspension parts? That'll really rile a few things up and heat up this place.. :D

Yes!

I don't see the virtue in withholding truth. :dunno:

You may not see the virtue, but I don't see the point of holding back.

[The HACK]

I don't want to be accused of causing "drama" here. It'll create a sh*t storm, judging from the reactions over at 'fest. :D

Kevin (Emission's brother) brought his '04 ZHP over to the last techsession and we got the car up in the air to inspect the parts. Vince read off the PN and Kaz checked the ETK. ALL part numbers match U.S. spec standard suspension for 330i except for the front control arm. Springs don't have a part number but they're color coded much like a resistor. The color code matches that of an '02 330Ci.

Then we put Doeboy's '02 330Ci up on the rack. All PN matched the ZHP part number. Again, except for the front lower control arm.

We have about a dozen eye witnesses. The only reason I didn't want to post the result, is I am sick and tired of every other ZHP owner accusing me and Vince of jealousy because we couldn't afford a ZHP or whatever.

I must thank Kevin for volunteering his car for the test. Now that I've put that question to bed, now I must figure out how I can retrofit the M Tech-II front control arm to gain ZHP like handling.

[nate]

Well, just about every person that has driven a ZHP says that if "feels" better.

They either played with the alignment (possible) or it is just psychological.

[The HACK]

Well, just about every person that has driven a ZHP says that if "feels" better.

They either played with the alignment (possible) or it is just psychological.

None of us are disputing that. The control arm IS different. The ball joint on the control arm (comes with the control arm) could play a big role in how much movement is allowed in the suspension.

Also, when I moved from ~-0.5 degrees negative camber all the way up to about -1.3 up front, it made a pretty noticeable difference in how the car handles. Less roll, better turn-in...And all it was, was just a slight tuning of camber. :dunno:

Vince and I never set out to deflate "ZHP" owner's egos. He had a suspicion that the parts aren't all that different per BMW's marketing literature, and he and I set out to prove it. There's no 0.6 inch drop, no aggressive springs, no re-valved shocks, no thicker swaybar compared to the "standard" 330i suspension.

[SpaceMonk]

I can't say I'm really surprised by this. Well, except by the fact the control arms are different. I wasn't expecting that.

[FC]

I can't say I'm really surprised by this. Well, except by the fact the control arms are different. I wasn't expecting that.

Well, all I can say is THANK YOU HACK!

At least we got THAT out of the way. Hey maybe this can be used as ammo to not bump the perf pack to a tougher group at the Autox. :D

I still would like to see someone drive a 330i zhp and then drive a 330i SP with 18" wheels back to back just for kicks.

Monk'... anyone at the AutoX with that setup? I can't think of anyone.

[Rob]

Oh, come on!! This information deserves it's own thread in Car Talk. It shouldn't be buried in The Pub under at thread that is labeled Wake Up!!

Hmm. On second thought, maybe that thread title is appropriate after all. :lol:

[TD]

All I can say is that if I were a ZHP owner who bought his car based, at least partially, on the promise of a further upgraded suspension, I'd be pretty pissed. The specs published by BMW indicating a lower ride and firmer suspension can be seen as fraudulent misrepresentation.

I guess the control arms and 18 inch wheels much make up the difference in feel I thought I felt. Still, that's not a lot for your $4500.

So let's see, in reality your $4500 buys:
- M-tech body kit ($500)
- 18 inch wheel upgrade (differential over 17 inchers, maybe $300)
- Cloth seats (no cost)
- Funky steering wheel/shift boot (maybe $50 difference)
- 5 HP (Jim C chip is $400)
- A LOUD exhaust (I'd pay to get rid of it but it might cost $50 more to BMW, if that)
- Black window trim (no cost)
- Different front control arms (maybe $5 extra to BMW)

Roughly $1100 worth of stuff.

:lol:

[FC]

All I can say is that if I were a ZHP owner who bought his car based, at least partially, on the promise of a further upgraded suspension, I'd be pretty pissed. The specs published by BMW indicating a lower ride and firmer suspension can be seen as fraudulent misrepresentation.

I guess the control arms and 18 inch wheels much make up the difference in feel I thought I felt. Still, that's not a lot for your $4500.

So let's see, in reality your $4500 buys:
- M-tech body kit ($500)
- 18 inch wheel upgrade (differential over 17 inchers, maybe $300)
- Cloth seats (no cost)
- Funky steering wheel/shift boot (maybe $50 difference)
- 5 HP (Jim C chip is $400)
- A LOUD exhaust (I'd pay to get rid of it but it might cost $50 more to BMW, if that)
- Black window trim (no cost)
- Different front control arms (maybe $5 extra to BMW)

Roughly $1100 worth of stuff.

:lol:

I don't feel ripped off. But I surely don't feel like I got a deal. The package offered a bunch of cosmetic and mechanical bits that made it worth it for me.

[TD]

Oh, come on!! This information deserves it's own thread in Car Talk. It shouldn't be buried in The Pub under at thread that is labeled Wake Up!!

Hmm. On second thought, maybe that thread title is appropriate after all. :lol:

In spite of your final comment, I agree and it has been moved.

[ZHPhil]

All I can say is that if I were a ZHP owner who bought his car based, at least partially, on the promise of a further upgraded suspension, I'd be pretty pissed. The specs published by BMW indicating a lower ride and firmer suspension can be seen as fraudulent misrepresentation.

I guess the control arms and 18 inch wheels much make up the difference in feel I thought I felt. Still, that's not a lot for your $4500.

So let's see, in reality your $4500 buys:
- M-tech body kit ($500)
- 18 inch wheel upgrade (differential over 17 inchers, maybe $300)
- Cloth seats (no cost)
- Funky steering wheel/shift boot (maybe $50 difference)
- 5 HP (Jim C chip is $400)
- A LOUD exhaust (I'd pay to get rid of it but it might cost $50 more to BMW, if that)
- Black window trim (no cost)
- Different front control arms (maybe $5 extra to BMW)

Roughly $1100 worth of stuff.

:lol:

Bastard :box: Where's your estimate of SSK :mrgreen: We (at least those of us with level heads) knew that ZHP was partially markieting and saved us from the minimal amount of work it would take to mod the reg SP 330. And IIRC its 10 HP gain :cool:

[TD]

What SSK?

I think everyone agrees that it's just a shorter shift knob.

[JST]

These are very intriguing findings. The consumer literature has been pretty specific about the changes, as have (presumably) the press kits, based on some of the articles I've read. I think the article in the current Roundel, for example, supplies a bunch of "this is x percent stiffer than that."

It seems bizarre that BMW would misrepresent these kinds of details. And it seems equally bizarre that if BMW were to go to the trouble of putting in new control arms, it wouldn't change any of the other components.

Just musing.

[clyde]

These are very intriguing findings. The consumer literature has been pretty specific about the changes, as have (presumably) the press kits, based on some of the articles I've read. I think the article in the current Roundel, for example, supplies a bunch of "this is x percent stiffer than that."

It seems bizarre that BMW would misrepresent these kinds of details. And it seems equally bizarre that if BMW were to go to the trouble of putting in new control arms, it wouldn't change any of the other components.

Just musing.

Vatkens, oh Vatkens, wherefore art thou, Vatkens?

[Masskrug]

Add Dishonesty, or at the very least, Intention to Mislead, to the list of things to dislike about BMW AG.

The problem is, I don't think other carmakers are any different.

[clyde]

The problem is, I don't think other carmakers are any different.

Didn't Tiger Woods tell us "It's all good" with respect to Buicks? :roll:

[scottn2retro]

Isn't there also a slightly different rear diff?

Has anyone compiled a comprehensive list of the differences?

[Plaz]

What about the diff? Doesn't the ZHP supposedly have a shorter one?

Was it possible for you guys to compare?

EDIT: D'oh.

[SpaceMonk]

Yes, the ZHP comes with a 3.07 diff vs. 2.93. Still non-LSD. And also still not low enough, IMO.

[FC]

Yes, the ZHP comes with a 3.07 diff vs. 2.93. Still non-LSD. And also still not low enough, IMO.

I agree. If I keep my car beyond 5 years (very likely), that will be the one mod I will make. Some LSD with about 3.3 or so.

[scottn2retro]

I think the whole issue could be diffused if BMW would issue a press release saying that there had been some confusion about what is in the ZHP package and sets the record straight.

I don't think the people that got the ZHPs will feel ripped off. They like the car and were willing to pay what they did. I do feel that they're being done an injustice if the car is being classed incorrectly for club level competition based on incorrect information.

[The HACK]

Well, all I can say is THANK YOU HACK!

At least we got THAT out of the way. Hey maybe this can be used as ammo to not bump the perf pack to a tougher group at the Autox. :D

I still would like to see someone drive a 330i zhp and then drive a 330i SP with 18" wheels back to back just for kicks.

Monk'... anyone at the AutoX with that setup? I can't think of anyone.

That was what ptg95m3 had discussed. The 330i ZHP is classed in a category that makes it very uncompetitive, given how much actual improvement was made on the car. It should go back to D-Stock or C-Stock along with the regular 330i.

[The HACK]

Isn't there also a slightly different rear diff?

Has anyone compiled a comprehensive list of the differences?

If Paddle.Shift and Kaz feel up to answering that...They were the one gathering all the PN, I just merely helped out and observed.

The only suspension component that we know of for sure that is different is the control arm. I think Kaz and Paddle.Shift also has confirmed that the other bushings (the other control arm bushing, the sway bar bushings...etc) are identicle as well.

I have asked Kevin to check the strut hat and see if that's missing the alignment pin, which would allow BMW to increase camber up to -0.8 degrees. But you CAN get more negative camber by adjusting the tie rods as well so that's not a confirmation.

Again, I suspect camber setting has a lot to do with the improvement on handling of the ZHP package, since I remember seeing an earlier post claiming that the ZHP front camber has been set to -1.3 degrees. Factory setting for regular sports package is -0.3 +/- .5 degrees up front.

[lemming]

why is this controversial again?

i missed the hubbub, man. i thought the only difference was something about spring rate and maybe stiffer struts? maybe they used different bushings?

were those all the same also? your description was ambiguous in that regard --i'm assuming you are as retentive as i think are you are and did, in fact, look at every single suspension piece then......

[doeboy]

Then we put Doeboy's '02 330Ci up on the rack. All PN matched the ZHP part number. Again, except for the front lower control arm.

Uh.. I have an '03.... :tongue: I know... pretty much the same damn thing. :D

And from riding in bone stock sport package cars of various model years... I can say that my bone stock 330Ci suspension (when it was still stock :paranoid: ) still felt significantly better than some of the previous model year cars.

At driving schools, some instructors have even commented on how good the car felt and asked what I did to it. They were surprised when I said "nothing".

Which is why I keep saying the info they've given out is so vague because honestly I don't think they're comparing the same model year cars either.

[nate]

HACK, check your PMs :cool:

[The HACK]

By the way, in no way does Paddle.Shift and I, and for that matter the rest of the Tribe that was present, wanted to withold any of this information.

But the matter still remains that I've received some pretty harsh emails from some ZHP owners over this, and I believe Vince has as well. Hence I'm keeping a low profile.

[lemming]

By the way, in no way does Paddle.Shift and I, and for that matter the rest of the Tribe that was present, wanted to withold any of this information.

But the matter still remains that I've received some pretty harsh emails from some ZHP owners over this, and I believe Vince has as well. Hence I'm keeping a low profile.

what a bunch of crap that is.

i thought i was the only one who could tease you two, what's the deal with everyone else muscling in on me and TD's territory?

[doeboy]

By the way, in no way does Paddle.Shift and I, and for that matter the rest of the Tribe that was present, wanted to withold any of this information.

But the matter still remains that I've received some pretty harsh emails from some ZHP owners over this, and I believe Vince has as well. Hence I'm keeping a low profile.

That's because nobody like to be told they're getting the wool pulled over their eyes. Don't let those guys get to you man.

[Plaz]

I've received some pretty harsh emails from some ZHP owners over this, and I believe Vince has as well.

Well, that's just stupid. Facts are facts. Why shoot the messenger?

:roll:

[scottn2retro]

HACK, Vince -

If the resolution of this matter can result in the ZHP getting moved down a class, there will be ZHP owners out there singing your praises :D

[The HACK]

why is this controversial again?

i missed the hubbub, man. i thought the only difference was something about spring rate and maybe stiffer struts? maybe they used different bushings?

were those all the same also? your description was ambiguous in that regard --i'm assuming you are as retentive as i think are you are and did, in fact, look at every single suspension piece then......

Yes we looked at ALL the parts. Here's a list:

Same:

Swaybar (front and back)
Swaybar bushing
front control arm bushing
front strut
rear shock
front and rear springs (no PN, checked color-code)

Different:
Front lower control arm
Ball-joint bushing (part of FLCA)

Does that clarify it a little more? :dunno:

[ZHPhil]

What SSK?

I think everyone agrees that it's just a shorter shift knob.
:cry: Why must you ruin it for a marketing fool like me ;)

[lemming]

why is this controversial again?

i missed the hubbub, man. i thought the only difference was something about spring rate and maybe stiffer struts? maybe they used different bushings?

were those all the same also? your description was ambiguous in that regard --i'm assuming you are as retentive as i think are you are and did, in fact, look at every single suspension piece then......

Yes we looked at ALL the parts. Here's a list:

Same:

Swaybar (front and back)
Swaybar bushing
front control arm bushing
front strut
rear shock
front and rear springs (no PN, checked color-code)

Different:
Front lower control arm
Ball-joint bushing (part of FLCA)

Does that clarify it a little more? :dunno:

wow.

yup. it does. thanks, hack. that's pretty interesting, actually. it does not detract, from my own perspective, the cams or the higher redline or the shorter rear end --so i'd still get a ZHP if i wanted a 3 series that wasn't an M3.

[The HACK]

wow.

yup. it does. thanks, hack. that's pretty interesting, actually. it does not detract, from my own perspective, the cams or the higher redline or the shorter rear end --so i'd still get a ZHP if i wanted a 3 series that wasn't an M3.

Again, the package is still a steal if you consider:

3.09 rear diff
Cams

Both mods purchased aftermarket would exceed the $2,700 cost for the package, and the cams will certainly make your car none-California smog compliant. If I was in the market I'd buy a 330Ci ZHP. I would.

Still doesn't change the fact that BMW claimed the changes in suspension in their literatures where in fact those comparisons were done vs. a Standard Suspension from 2000-2001 production. Despite that clarification I would still recommend the ZHP to anyone shopping for a new 3 series right now...The engine and driveline mods along are worth it.

[lemming]

wow.

yup. it does. thanks, hack. that's pretty interesting, actually. it does not detract, from my own perspective, the cams or the higher redline or the shorter rear end --so i'd still get a ZHP if i wanted a 3 series that wasn't an M3.

Again, the package is still a steal if you consider:

3.09 rear diff
Cams

Both mods purchased aftermarket would exceed the $2,700 cost for the package, and the cams will certainly make your car none-California smog compliant. If I was in the market I'd buy a 330Ci ZHP. I would.

Still doesn't change the fact that BMW claimed the changes in suspension in their literatures where in fact those comparisons were done vs. a Standard Suspension from 2000-2001 production. Despite that clarification I would still recommend the ZHP to anyone shopping for a new 3 series right now...The engine and driveline mods along are worth it.

yeah, let's face it. people on the 'fest boards who are greater than thou about a ZHP package......they're morons likely overcompensating for not being able to afford an M3.

that said, if you cut out the moronathons, there are likely more silent people who bought the ZHP because it enhanced an already good package and it is, from an OEM standpoint, a steal. and i'm with this group.

[doeboy]

Yup...

If the ZHP package was available when I ordered my car, I probably would've... love those Alcantara Seats.... :D

And if I were to do it again... I'd remember this time no moonroof and not to forget to add the electric rear sunshade. D'oh!

[Rob]

I can say from experience that the non sport package '03 325i loaner suspension felt better to me than my '01 sport package 330i. The '01 suspension was all body roll - something that happens to drive me nuts. They improved it dramatically when the changed it.

Still nothing like the e36, though. :smile:

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Hey all,

This is it. Download the attachments to your hard drive and ogle at the part numbers all you can. I will remove the attachments from my servers on Dec 12th Friday PST 10pm.

This is based on my latest 10/03 ETK. Car is a 330i US spec Manual transmission Dec 2003 production. Why do I use the ETK as a basis? Cos this is what your local dealers use when you need a part for your ZHP.

======

Say Joe ZHP decides to buy a final drive different for his ZHP. He was told 3.07 on the brochure. <br>He calls into CircleBMW (or Crevier or Cutter or Pacific) and orders it. Jane Parts checks her ETK and do the following steps:

1. http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/1.gif
2. http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/2.gif

And Jane Parts calls Joe ZHP back and says, "Yup the part number is 33.107.505.390 and it's a 2.93". Joe gets confused and claimed that his ZHP package has a 3.07 not 2.93. At this point, Jane gets annoyed and says "Mister, this is what I have on the screen. So do you want to order or not? Men are just troublesome!"

More to come....

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

And the deal with ZHP bushings...

The front bushings (rubber mountings) highlighted.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/3.gif


And the rear bushings (rubber mountings) highlighted.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/4.gif

All the highlighted parts are, well erm..., on my E46 325i May 2001 production as well. So where's the presumably stiffened bushings? Review Diagram 31_0600 and look at item 5. That is a M-technik II control arm for Performance Package. If you look closely, there is a bushing on the end of the arm. That is your stiffened bushing. M-technik II arms are retrofittable on all E46s. $170.00 a piece from a good discounted parts dealer.


More to come....

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Irritated by Jane Parts, Joe's brother, Jack ZHP decided to take the matters into his own hands. Jack called up his best pal, Doh Partees, working at a local dealership to verify the shocks on the ZHP package.

Doh said "Not a problem, let me check my ETK and see."

Using 330i US spec, December 2003 production, Doh was confronted with the following. "Where's the Performance package option for this diagram?" Doh asked himself. He went on to click YES for Sporty Suspension and NO for Poor Road Package. Afterall, the ZHP 330i can't be made for poor-roads in the US!!
http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/5.gif

Doh picked the following part numbers.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/6.gif

And Doh did a "Parts Use" search for 31.31.2.282.460 and found that this part is actually used even in 320Cd!!

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/7.gif


more to come...

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Still recovering from quite a bit of shock, Doh didn't dare to call Jack about what he found. Afterall, friendship matters more than this. Doh, determined and confident, decided to explore more.

Doh gathered from his manager that the ZHP package has upgraded the sway bars from 23.0 to 23.5mm for front and 18.0 to 18.5mm for rear. With this information, Mr Partees fired up his ETK again.

Ah ha! There's the 23.5mm sway bar for the front!

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/8.gif

At this moment, while jumping with joy, Doh accidentally clicked on Parts Use search and realized that this 23.5mm sway bar is even used in 318d and across ALL non-M E46s!!!

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/9.gif

more to come...

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Doh did the same for the rear sway bar and to his dismay, there is never a 18.5mm. Only 18.0mm and this is used across ALL non-M E46s.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/10.gif
http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/11.gif

[JST]

Playing the devil's advocate...

Does the ETK include parts used in BMW Individual applications?

Did you guys measure the bars on the ZHP?

[TD]

Having an ETK, I can tell you that the "applications" funtion doesn't eman squat.

If I pick a genuine M-only part off my car and click "applications", it'll list every (non-z) E36 variant ever built including compacts. I think it lists what vehicles a given part WILL FIT ON versus what vehicles it CAME ON.

So, really, this doesn't tell you anything. You guys comparing part numbers on actual cars carries some weight with me. But the ETK not having ZHP specific parts listed doesn't mean squat, IMO.

[lemming]

man, to the people with bugaboos up their butt about this over at 'fest, this must be driving them nuts.

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Three things:

1. yes ZHP sway bars were measured by a caliper.

2. BMW individual has been always focusing on the aesthetic bits like custom leather combo, stitching and such. Never have they been involved with performance oriented customizations. Group 91 in the ETK lists the parts for the BMW Individual and not one part is even close to being a screw!

3. Application list does mean something. I have to clarify that the 318i will have those sway bars as part of a sport package of course. Non-sport package 318i will not get it. Point being made here is that most parts in the ZHP package are not made exclusively for ZHP. On the contrary, these parts have been available around on the shelves for other E46s. Think about it, for a package that cost this low, how committed are the engineers/designers willing to make an effort to do a FEA on a new set of sways (not previously on the shelves). Given that they have (supposedly) spent a lot of time in cams, ECU, sport muffler etc. Also, the SMG wheel fits on E39 5 series, E53 X5 series and non-M E46 3series, yet under Parts Use list, only E46 M3s are listed.

[Doug]

I'd like to say this is a great thread! Good work HACK and Vince.
Regardless of your opinion of the ZHP package it is awesome info, backed by facts, about this issue. Very cool!

[ezsce46]

Again, the package is still a steal if you consider:

3.09 rear diff
Cams

Both mods purchased aftermarket would exceed the $2,700 cost for the package, and the cams will certainly make your car none-California smog compliant. If I was in the market I'd buy a 330Ci ZHP. I would.

What about the Cams? PN on those? For $349 we can easily increase our rev limit to 7,000rpm (via either the Shark or Technic 1 software). So special cams for 6,800 rpm doesn't sound ncessary. And the final test should be a one on one, 330i/ci SP vs 330iZHP, 0-60 , 1/4 mile ..etc. Good stuff!!

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

So do we get to keep our heads? :shock: :D

http://asylumeclectica.com/sightseer/us/pa/mutter/head.jpg

I'd like to say this is a great thread! Good work HACK and Vince.
Regardless of your opinion of the ZHP package it is awesome info, backed by facts, about this issue. Very cool!

[doeboy]

So do we get to keep our heads? :shock: :D


:awe:

Man that head startled me when I scrolled down... :lol:

[The HACK]

Vince, you need to turn off ECE values on your ETK. The older version that I have DO show the 3.07 diff for the ZHP:

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=23252

[doeboy]

Again, the package is still a steal if you consider:

3.09 rear diff
Cams



For the record, it's a 3.07 diff.

[scottn2retro]

Again, the package is still a steal if you consider:
3.09 rear diff
Cams

For the record, it's a 3.07 diff.

Alright, so where's that comprehensive list of the enhancements on the ZHP? :smile:

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Hack,

You're right. I am surprised no one has chopped off my head just yet. :shock:

Here's an evidence that 330ci will be getting Performance Package.

http://home.comcast.net/%7Ealpina.nut/13.gif\

Note, all pictures will be removed by 10pm PST tonight!

[Terri Kennedy]

Does the ETK include parts used in BMW Individual applications?
Yes, but as Vince says those are decor items, not performance items. The real performance items (from the racing catalog) have regular series part numbers. For an example, click here (http://www.tmk.com/transient/racing.pdf). I picked front axle as that is where a lot of this discussion is centered.

[Doug]

How do you access the racing catalog?

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

The cams are about $600.00 both for inlet and outlet. 3.07 diff is about $800.00. Again these prices are from a good discounted BMW parts dealer.

Retrofitting both shouldn't be a problem.

[SpaceMonk]

The cams are about $600.00 both for inlet and outlet. 3.07 diff is about $800.00. Again these prices are from a good discounted BMW parts dealer.

Retrofitting both shouldn't be a problem.
May be difficult to get the revised software that the ZHP comes with though, no?

[lemming]

The cams are about $600.00 both for inlet and outlet. 3.07 diff is about $800.00. Again these prices are from a good discounted BMW parts dealer.

Retrofitting both shouldn't be a problem.

and the OEM BMW wheels. those are not cheap.

and warranty coverage: how much can we price that out to be?

i think there are two different issues here and i am even more confused by the extensive review by Roundel this month of hte ZHP package. they list the idfference in parts in the first paragraph of the review. and it would appear that those difference in rebounding and spring stiffness couldn't be achieved with the same parts. strange.

so, there is that issue. i think trying to say that these parts can be had for cheaper is a moot argument because while it may be implausible that you could get extra money for a ZHP versus a "normal" 330 in the used car market, you'd not be scaring away a customer like you could or would with unfamiliar people having opened up the engine to do camwork or do a diff swap.

not to mention CPO or even warranty coverage versus none. i realize the magnusson act should still cover the other engine parts, but opening an engine up to put in cams is not trivial and i do not know of any dealer who would cover engine repair (blown compression or valve issues) if they found korman cams or even OEM BMW cams installed after the fact.

so, let's not even touch this issue okay? we haven't really even sorted the first one out.

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Reason I posted the prices is because someone asked me about how much are the cams and differential. Plus, I know someone who is retrofitting the cams in a 330 right now and I have the necessary info. These prices, of course, do not reflect the BMW cost. It's never logical to try and re-evaluate the prices of the parts from a package. Even my 325i sports package is very worthy for $1200.

[lemming]

Reason I posted the prices is because someone asked me about how much are the cams and differential. Plus, I know someone who is retrofitting the cams in a 330 right now and I have the necessary info. These prices, of course, do not reflect the BMW cost. It's never logical to try and re-evaluate the prices of the parts from a package. Even my 325i sports package is very worthy for $1200.

i know exactly where you are coming from, it does not bother a person like you at all to have aftermarket parts or to tinker, i respect that about you a lot.

but from a new car buyer, it's a lot easier to fold an OEM package with warranty intot he cost of the car than to deal with aftermarket issues. i still think that decent wheels, software, cams and a the diff swap are pretty much (not to mention aero kit parts) a "steal".

EDIT: the ZHP is a steal compared to the A-spec Acura stuff reviewed by autoweek this week (elise on the cover).

[SARAFIL]

Even my 325i sports package is very worthy for $1200.

Very true. There aren't many parts in a Sport Package that actually cost more to produce and purchase. Does a Sport Steering wheel cost more than a regular one? Sport Seats more costly? Is a "firmer" suspension more expensive? The increased cost of these options compared to what you are charged for them is pennies on the dollar. It's all demand, added appeal, etc.

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Wait..the package is $1200 right? Cos I remember selling my Type 44s for $1200.00 the very next day. So my sports package is free? :D


Very true. There aren't many parts in a Sport Package that actually cost more to produce and purchase. Does a Sport Steering wheel cost more than a regular one? Sport Seats more costly? Is a "firmer" suspension more expensive? The increased cost of these options compared to what you are charged for them is pennies on the dollar. It's all demand, added appeal, etc.

[Terri Kennedy]

Very true. There aren't many parts in a Sport Package that actually cost more to produce and purchase. Does a Sport Steering wheel cost more than a regular one? Sport Seats more costly? Is a "firmer" suspension more expensive? The increased cost of these options compared to what you are charged for them is pennies on the dollar. It's all demand, added appeal, etc.
Y'know what drives me nuts? People who decided to save a couple bucks by not getting some option, and then going ballistic later on when they want to add that option and find out that it costs far more than that same number of bucks to put it in later. It isn't so much the labor that they can't comprehend, it is the fact that (for example) they can't buy the complete set of HK parts for the cost of the option. Explaining that a factory option B instead of option A is different from buying A and then buying B to replace it just doesn't cut it. Someone wanted me to help him with folding mirrors, which are like a $180 option at time of order, but the two housings and switch are over $500, and he told me I was trying to rip him off. Sheesh! Sorry, it's just one of my hot buttons - and I don't even work for a dealer! I pity the dealers that some of the E46Fanatics folks go to...

[SARAFIL]

Y'know what drives me nuts? People who decided to save a couple bucks by not getting some option, and then going ballistic later on when they want to add that option and find out that it costs far more than that same number of bucks to put it in later.

This is true. However, compare the prices for the "upgraded" parts to the prices for the original parts, and you'll see the difference is very small. Of course, no one ever sees this because they have no reason to replace their stock parts with more stock parts. However, I don't see any reason why the total sum of HK parts would cost more than the total sum of stock parts, with the exception that HK has a few more pieces that would add more cost. The sport seats aren't much more expensive than the stock seats, the steering wheels cost nearly the same, the suspension components aren't more expensive because they are "firmer".

I understand your point and agree with you; however, I still have to say that there is little monetatry difference between the value of comparable parts, unless one is fancier/more complex than the other (power folding mirrors, for example)

[The HACK]

I've regreted more and more everyday for every trying to get to the bottom of this.

It was never my intention to a) annoy any of the zhp owners b) expose BMW NA for their "fraud", all I wanted to do was confirm what Paddle.Shift has suspected. What we should've done is all stick to what we originally had agreed upon, and kept all this information off the boards.

Now people are talking about bringing lawsuits or getting BMW NA to re-imburse them. What everyone has failed to see is that BMW actually put a decent package together, offering enthusiasts their own special "performance package". I wonder if BMW NA will ever bother with trying to appease or satisfy "enthusiasts" anymore.

Sometimes people just needs to shut up and go enjoy what they've got. :thumbdow: I fail to see how the information that we provided makes their car less enjoyable.

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Hack, were you harressed again? :(

I have got the ZHP repellent spray. Got it on Sat. Part number is: 81.45.0.552.109. $4.32 a bottle. Very handy. I will drop off a bottle for you if you want.

[The HACK]

Hack, were you harressed again? :(

I have got the ZHP repellent spray. Got it on Sat. Part number is: 81.45.0.552.109. $4.32 a bottle. Very handy. I will drop off a bottle for you if you want.

No, but on 'Fest there's increasing talk of bringing lawsuit to BMWNA for false advertisement...That was NEVER my intention. And the way they kept using my name as the one associated with digging all this stuff up is just making me nervous. :(

Seriously though, has the suspension all of a sudden CHANGED after we made the discovery? It's still the same car but now people are calling for refunds and lawsuits?

I just don't get it. All I wanted to do was get to the bottom of this. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Friends don't let friends post on ZHP threads!

We have the tech sessions, we have tons of fun at all the past and future track events here, we spun out at Buttwillow and lived to laugh about it, we have Imad as a very competent tech, we have an auto-show coming up, a VDC tour coming up, you've got a Z4 to paddle around with, Stuka has a porkchop we can ogle at, we've got good dumplings and spicy noodles to stuff ourselves with. I am even planning a trip to DV in Feb!

Hence, I think you ought to remove those postings, for my hamster's sake at least. :cool:

[Doug]

HACK,
I don't see how this can have a negative impact toward your from BMW NA, anyone could have looked that up and/or compared parts on a car.

I hope you won't totally stop your DIY info, I've learned a lot from you and hope to get more good stuff from ya.

[SpaceMonk]

HACK,
I don't see how this can have a negative impact toward your from BMW NA, anyone could have looked that up and/or compared parts on a car.

I hope you won't totally stop your DIY info, I've learned a lot from you and hope to get more good stuff from ya.

[Plaz]

HACK,
I don't see how this can have a negative impact toward your from BMW NA, anyone could have looked that up and/or compared parts on a car.

I hope you won't totally stop your DIY info, I've learned a lot from you and hope to get more good stuff from ya.

:thumbup:

[Rob]

HACK,
I don't see how this can have a negative impact toward your from BMW NA, anyone could have looked that up and/or compared parts on a car.

I hope you won't totally stop your DIY info, I've learned a lot from you and hope to get more good stuff from ya.

:!:

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Hrm...actually...it will have an impact on me too. I don't really wish to elaborate here. I think Hack's DIY info is great and I know he will continue to report his findings from the SCTSs.

But he and I have to distant ourselves AWAY the ZHP thing already. ;)


HACK,
I don't see how this can have a negative impact toward your from BMW NA, anyone could have looked that up and/or compared parts on a car.

I hope you won't totally stop your DIY info, I've learned a lot from you and hope to get more good stuff from ya.

[The HACK]

Okay, so it looks like Paddle.Shift and I owe a lot of people apologies...

I did a little more digging around the ETK, and I spoke with Paddle.Shift on the phone. It appears Andy_Thomas was on the right track. We dug up the PNs for 330i's again and what appears on the ETK as "sports package" shocks and springs turns out to be the same PN as M-Tech sports package shocks and springs under the 325i. We figured it out...

Basically, the ZHP is only offered in North America, and there is no such thing as sports package shocks that's different than the standard package shocks for the 330i. At least, not in the U.S...But in Canada, when you specify sports package for the 330i, you get the M-Tech II bits. So on the ETK, it lists the M-Tech II shocks and struts as "sports suspension" pieces for the 330i, when in fact, if you buy ZSP for the 330i you get the same 043/044 shocks, while for the ZHP package you get the M-Tech II shocks and struts (459/460 are the last 3 digits).

When we were comparing the PNs with PNs on the ETK, it MATCHES that of the 330i with "sports package", while not investigating further we concluded that the ZHP uses the same shocks. Well, in fact it sort of does. It matches the same shocks and struts as 330i with "sports package" in CANADA, not U.S.

And when we went to explore the ZHP springs vs. 330i springs, the spring color codes matches (there are no PNs printed on the springs). This part is still under contention and unless someone figures out how to decode BMW's cryptic color coding system and ETK spring table, I'm at my wits end as to how to compare the spring parts.

I hope this clears a few more things up. The ZHP package DOES in fact, uses up-rated shocks and struts compared to U.S. spec 330i. We put too much faith in the ETK and it came back to bite us in the @SS. I apologize for all this fury over my mistake.

(Actually we just wanted to see how gulllible people are...) :paranoid:

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Hack, it was a good chat.

Although I am still a little unsatisfied with why standard 330s get 043/044 and not 459/460, given that both are priced the same: US$125.00 per piece.

Also, should any 330 non-ZHP go for a service and needs to change the struts, it is highly likely that the ZHP struts will be used. Why? Cos technician will think that the 330 non-ZHP is equipped with "sporty suspension". Or call up Pacific, Crevier and tell the parts person you need struts for a 2002 330i with "sports package" and you will probably get the ZHP struts.


EDIT: wait a minute...does it mean that the table has now turned? :roll:

[lemming]

thanks to both of you guys anyway, for taking the time and effort to see how different the base, sport and ZHP packages are.

it was/is time consuming, but i think learned a lot from it. it's amazing how much R&D they put (or didn't) into tweaking the spring rates and dampers for the ZHP changing minimal parts.

[TD]

Kevin (Emission's brother) brought his '04 ZHP over to the last techsession and we got the car up in the air to inspect the parts. Vince read off the PN and Kaz checked the ETK. ALL part numbers match U.S. spec standard suspension for 330i except for the front control arm. Springs don't have a part number but they're color coded much like a resistor. The color code matches that of an '02 330Ci.

Then we put Doeboy's '02 330Ci up on the rack. All PN matched the ZHP part number. Again, except for the front lower control arm.


Okay, so you're now trying to claim Doeboy has a Canadian 330Ci w/M-sport II suspension?

It sounds to me like you are trying to concoct a story that will put this issue to rest rather than actually post the truth.

Please explain.

[scottn2retro]

I'm a little confused as well about the lift comparison of Kevin and doeboy's cars :?:

[blee]

Hack, I don't get it. Didn't you put a 330i and a ZHP on lifts and compare the part numbers right off the parts? From your first posts in this thread, that's the impression that I got.

[The HACK]

I swear I will NEVER ever touch another ZHP, or post anything about ZHPs ever again. EVER. :(

The last post I made about ZHP PN and the ETK is the TRUTH, period.

Doeboy doesn't have his OEM sport suspension anymore. He's got Vogtland coilovers on his car when we inspected.

While Paddle.Shift and Kaz was inspecting various parts of both cars, I was working on Louis Goldsman's short shift kit and also taking apart 95ptgm3's shifter carrier, and only participated in inspecting Kevin's car. I was told that the PNs matched "sports pacakge" PNs on the ETK.

Lesson learned. Time to buy a clue and just STFU. :thumbup:

[scottn2retro]

DOH!

Okay, so the springs are not yet veified. What about the sways? Does doeboy still have his factory sway bar?

As far as the ride height claim, could the difference come from the total circumference of the tire/wheel package (going up to 18's, doesn't seem likely)?

[clyde]

Lesson learned. Time to buy a clue and just STFU. :thumbup:

Peer review is a cruical step. Everyone is better off for the work/effort that you, Vince and Kaz (and any other that I'm missing) put in. Please don't keep quiet about this or anything else in the future. I appreciate what you've done and I don't even have a dog in that fight.

[doeboy]

DOH!

Okay, so the springs are not yet veified. What about the sways? Does doeboy still have his factory sway bar?

As far as the ride height claim, could the difference come from the total circumference of the tire/wheel package (going up to 18's, doesn't seem likely)?

I had the 043/044 shocks before I got my coilovers. :dunno: :scratch:

My sways are still stock. We can check that if you guys want, but I believe you guys already measured it on another car and it "should" be the same as mine... but who knows...

[Mr Paddle.Shift]

Guys,

The case is back on. Hack, check your email.

Looking at a 2002 330ci does not imply that 2002 330i sports package and espeically 2003 330i non-ZHP with sports package are the same as well. Note that years I used here are not MY but production year.

I spoke to a tech at NCBMW who has a 02/2003 330i non-ZHP with sports package in the service bay right now. Struts are 459/460 not 043/044.

HOWEVER...

I am not pursuing this anymore. This WILL be my last post about ZHP. Since this will just add more confusion to what Hack has posted. More confusion, I say! :mad:

[blee]

You certainly have the right not to post any further, but doing the research and posting it -- even if your initial conclusions were not 100% correct -- was very beneficial to all of us. If all you're getting is hate mail, then don't stop. I think there would be nothing better than for you both to do a verified, full-on analysis of two real cars, and give closure to your statements one way or another. But you're welcome to do as you please. :)

[SteveM]

If anyone in SoCal needs or wants to look at an '03 330i without ZHP and with Sport Pkg, just let me know (I have one). I would be willing to crawl around and look at P/N's on mine if you wish.

I have no political interest one way or the other :smile: . I chose not to get the ZHP because I didn't like the interior changes, 18" wheels, or spoiler.

I wish we could have selected the performance bits a la carte.

[scottn2retro]

I wish we could have selected the performance bits a la carte.

Maybe you already have some of them :D

[SteveM]

I wish we could have selected the performance bits a la carte.

Maybe you already have some of them :D



:lol:

I'd love the cams, computer and diff!

I think I must be getting used to my car. I thought it wasn't generating the power it should and was considering taking it to the dealer. Then I let a friend drive it with me riding as a passenger; for some reason, it feels faster from that seat!

[scottn2retro]

If anyone in SoCal needs or wants to look at an '03 330i without ZHP and with Sport Pkg, just let me know (I have one). I would be willing to crawl around and look at P/N's on mine if you wish.

There should be another tech session in January, I just hope HACK and Mr. Paddle Shift aren't too gun shy to look at the car. :D

At least this thread beats the SUV debate thread for the most views on the forum :smile:

[rumatt]

I swear I will NEVER ever touch another ZHP, or post anything about ZHPs ever again. EVER. :(

Hack, I hate to sound like a pain in the ass, but this whole love/hate relationship between you and ZHP threads really confuses the hell out of me.

You're a message board verteran and taking/giving flames isn't something new to you. I find it odd that you're letting flames (from the minority no less) control what you do, and what you discuss with others.

And in terms of feeling responsible for the lawsuit lynchmob forming at the fest, that's just crazy. Not to minimize the value of the information you add, but the reality is that you're just providing one more data point regarding an observation. If people want to take that and go nuts trying to start a lawsuit, it's a bit presumptious to assume that you're responsible.

If you add credible datapoints regarding things you've observed, it is IMO a good thing because you are helping resolving confusion-- regardless of what the conclusions are for BMWNA or whatever. Maybe there's just some information that I'm not aware of, but from what I can see there doesn't need to be so much controversy about all of this.

[The HACK]

DOH!

Okay, so the springs are not yet veified. What about the sways? Does doeboy still have his factory sway bar?

As far as the ride height claim, could the difference come from the total circumference of the tire/wheel package (going up to 18's, doesn't seem likely)?

Not 0.6" worth of ride height. That's about what, 12mm?

Going from 225/45/17s to 225/40/18s resulted in a change of 0.2" of overall diameter. I am baffled by the ride height claim as well, since one thing we know for sure, is that the *** Kevin's got has the same color code on the springs as MDK330i's springs. And there's no mention whatsoever of special ZHP spring part numbers in the ETK.

[scottn2retro]

Not 0.6" worth of ride height. That's about what, 12mm?

Going from 225/45/17s to 225/40/18s resulted in a change of 0.2" of overall diameter. I am baffled by the ride height claim as well, since one thing we know for sure, is that the *** Kevin's got has the same color code on the springs as MDK330i's springs. And there's no mention whatsoever of special ZHP spring part numbers in the ETK.

Maybe it's a combination of things (as opposed to one big noticeable part change) that adds up to make the ***s lower. 0.2" of tire diameter plus a couple of other things. Can the camber difference drop the height slightly? Maybe it's a case of some kind of spacer in spring perches or something on the Sport package that is omitted on the ***s. :dunno:

Oh, thanks for correcting me (diameter is what I meant and should have said :smile: )

[hfh330i]

Check the auxiliary springs, I think a component that limits spring travel. These are said to be 15mm shorter at both front and rear=reduction in ride height for the ***. ;)

[The HACK]

Check the auxiliary springs, I think a component that limits spring travel. These are said to be 15mm shorter at both front and rear=reduction in ride height for the ***. ;)

Auxiliary springs? :dunno:

There are no aux. springs on the E46 Mac-Strut design. On the 330i *** we looked at, the front and back springs are all one piece, progressive springs.

Unless the spring perches are re-designed, there's no way any sort of device designed to "limit" spring travel will lower the vehicle...Ride height of a vehicle is based on 1) spring length and 2) spring rate. A shorter spring will lower a car. A softer spring will lower the car. A stiffer spring and a much shorter spring will lower the car. Limiting the spring/shock travel will RAISE the car's ride height.

[hfh330i]

made of polyurethane...at least its what this thing says. :?:

[The HACK]

made of polyurethane...at least its what this thing says. :?:

Then they're refering to the bump-stop. Again, limiting the spring travel won't necessarily lower the car. The spring perch or the spring itself needs to be different.

[hfh330i]

If the bump stop is 15mm (0.6 in) shorter, would that lower the car? Or does that still depend on the spring rate/length etc.?

[The HACK]

If the bump stop is 15mm (0.6 in) shorter, would that lower the car? Or does that still depend on the spring rate/length etc.?

The only way a bump-stop would affect ride height is if the springs are so soft that at rest the car rests on the bump-stop.

[Doug]

If the bump stop is 15mm (0.6 in) shorter, would that lower the car? Or does that still depend on the spring rate/length etc.?

The only way a bump-stop would affect ride height is if the springs are so soft that at rest the car rests on the bump-stop.

Yup.

[hfh330i]

:scratch: :traurig2:

[Plaz]

If the bump stop is 15mm (0.6 in) shorter, would that lower the car? Or does that still depend on the spring rate/length etc.?

The only way a bump-stop would affect ride height is if the springs are so soft that at rest the car rests on the bump-stop.

:lol:

http://www.ideafinder.com/images/inventions/slinky.gif

[scottn2retro]

:scratch: :traurig2:

That's okay - I'm kind of thinking out loud / brainstorming as well (while hopefully in the meantime, somebody out there figures out a way to verify the springs).

If the wheel/tire package give 0.2" drop, then we're looking for another 0.4". Maybe I can find some camber diagrams and see if I can calculate how much 0.8 degrees of negative camber would drop the pivot point (or maybe I'll just give Pete Stackhouse at TC Kline a call :smile: )

[The HACK]

If the wheel/tire package give 0.2" drop, then we're looking for another 0.4". Maybe I can find some camber diagrams and see if I can calculate how much 0.8 degrees of negative camber would drop the pivot point (or maybe I'll just give Pete Stackhouse at TC Kline a call :smile: )

The wheel/tire package gives an overall 0.05" RAISE. The 225/45/17 tire (stock front) is 25.0" overall diameter, and the 225/40/18 tire is 25.1" overall diameter, hence the ride height would be increased by 0.05" (radius of the rim/tire determin how far the vehicle ride off the ground). Change is negligible, since change in air pressure will have a bigger effect on change in ride height than the tire/wheel package.

The sports vs. none sports package back in '00 on the sedans before they all became standard, is 0.6" drop in height as well and it's really noticeable. The supposed 0.6" drop from the ZHP to 330i Sports isn't noticeable at all. 0.6" is about 15mm, which is a fair drop.

[scottn2retro]

The wheel/tire package gives an overall 0.05" RAISE. The 225/45/17 tire (stock front) is 25.0" overall diameter, and the 225/40/18 tire is 25.1" overall diameter, hence the ride height would be increased by 0.05" (radius of the rim/tire determin how far the vehicle ride off the ground). Change is negligible, since change in air pressure will have a bigger effect on change in ride height than the tire/wheel package.

The sports vs. none sports package back in '00 on the sedans before they all became standard, is 0.6" drop in height as well and it's really noticeable. The supposed 0.6" drop from the ZHP to 330i Sports isn't noticeable at all. 0.6" is about 15mm, which is a fair drop.
DOH! - I misunderstood that. So it still looks like the ride height claim, the sways and the springs (and now maybe the shocks/struts) could be based on a ZHP versus an earlier model 3 series.

I talked to Pete and the camber change would not make that noticeable a difference in ride height. I also talked to TC and his advice for anyone looking to AutoX 330s was:
"I'd much rather be in a 330 Sport Package in D stock than in a 330 ZHP in B stock"

[SteveM]

Agree that you will definitely notice a 0.5" inch drop. I put Eibachs on my prior car and these dropped the car about 0.5 inches which was definitely noticable.

[hfh330i]

Why BMW would compare a MY2003 w/ MY 2001? I can understand a comparison of apples/oranges like E60/E39; but...

How about this one...zhp=m sport II; zhp=zsp; then zsp=m sport II?

If the above is the case would it be safe to assume that a 330i zsp w/18 in wheel option (say m72) would have the same feel/handling characteristics (buttdyno)?

Alright...in the back of this book its got a couple of pages called "Specificaitons" it shows certain characteristics in Bold that indicates new specification as of 03/03 production for all 330i's and Bold Grey for anything unique to the zhp package.

Under the heading of Chassis and regarding the suspension (italics for zhp option only; my comments in ():

Front Suspension: Struts, arc-shaped forged-aluminum lower arms with rigid front pivots & hydrolic rear cushions, coil springs, twin-tube gas pressure shock absorbers, anti-roll bar. (I read this to say that other than the front pivots the front suspension is the same for the zhp & zsp)

Rear Suspension: Multi-link system with Centeral Links, upper & lower lateral links, coil springs, twin-tube gas pressure shock absorbers, anti roll bar (no differences)

Here is where it gets confusing...

Suspension Calibration: Unique M sport calibration: springs, shock absorbers, anti-roll bars & bushings/pivots.

Dictionary..."Calibration": to determine, check, or rectify the graduation of (any instrument giving quantitative measurements)

Can it be concluded...from the information above that the zhp and the zsp indeed have the same suspension componets, both fore and aft, other than the fron pivots, and that the zhp's suspension component have been "calibrated" or "tuned" to provide a different level of performance?

[hfh330i]

in the above I concluded that the 330i w/o sport and 330i w/sport have the same suspension; only difference are seats and wheels

[JST]

Can it be concluded...from the information above that the zhp and the zsp indeed have the same suspension componets, both fore and aft, other than the fron pivots, and that the zhp's suspension component have been "calibrated" or "tuned" to provide a different level of performance?

That's what both your data and the observations of Hack, et al. seem to suggest. Now, the question is this: Would BMW specify a different calibration for something like a shock absorber (or a different spring rate) without changing the part number of the shock/strut or the color coding of the spring? If they did, how would a tech be able to replace the new strut/shock? Is there potentially some other identification that we are not aware of?

[clyde]

Is there potentially some other identification that we are not aware of?

You mean like punching the VIN into some kind of computer like machine and having it return what options it came equipped with? :dunno:

[SARAFIL]

Is there potentially some other identification that we are not aware of?

You mean like punching the VIN into some kind of computer like machine and having it return what options it came equipped with? :dunno:

Vehicle History Reports for Dummies, courtesy of SARAFIL Dealer Services.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/photos/data/500/3632vh_for_dummies.jpg?8587

[JST]

Is there potentially some other identification that we are not aware of?

You mean like punching the VIN into some kind of computer like machine and having it return what options it came equipped with? :dunno:

No, I mean on the part itself. If the shocks use the same casing but different valving, I'm wondering if it is possible that there is some identifier to separate ZHP valved shocks from non-ZHP valved shocks, other than the part no. It does not seem like the best way to do it, but it's not impossible.

The problem, of course, is how does the tech order a replacement shock? Even if he knows (through whatever means) that the car sitting in front of him should get ZHP shocks, how does he tell the warehouse what to send him? If it's not the part number, what is it? And if the electronic part tracking system isn't set up with additional identifiers (such as part no. xx-xxxx-A v. xx-xxxx-B), how does the inventory get ordered, tracked and supplied?

I'm just tossing out thoughts.

[Terri Kennedy]

If it's not the part number, what is it? And if the electronic part tracking system isn't set up with additional identifiers (such as part no. xx-xxxx-A v. xx-xxxx-B), how does the inventory get ordered, tracked and supplied?
The only time I've seen BMW do this is with software - the EBA disc comes out monthly, but keeps the same part number. For cases where the version matters, the CD will be marked "Index x" where x is a letter, below the part number. If a particular service operation calls for a particular version or newer, it will say something like "Install Navigation Software 01 59 0 141 801 Index K or newer" in the instructions. The blue-and-white picking labels from the warehouse do not have the index code on them, only the base part number. And the inventory bin location doesn't change from month to month. I assume that the warehouse has some method for removing out-of-date stock from these bins - I've never received a disc (for anything) that was more than one release out-of-date.

Back to the original question - the BMW part numbering scheme allows for a huge number of parts, so I can't see that a part would have different functional characteristics and retain the same part number, particularly when it is used in sets of more than one (where a mismatch could cause problems).