E90 325i verses A4 2.0T S-Line

[ed328ci]

Ok, I am still trying to decide between these two. I am leaning towards the E90 though.

Price
The A4 2.0T Quattro S-Line optioned out is about $4k more than the 325i with sport and premium packages, but due to Audi's lower financing rate, would be about $40 cheaper per month.

Acceleration
The 325i is smoother overall, and revs up very quickly, but the A4 has more noticeable low end torque

Handling
The 325i a bit more neutral than the A4, which understeers more. The E90's steering is better hands down. The A4 steering is too light and numb.

Braking
About even. Of course, if measured, the 325i will have better braking numbers

Exterior styling
Even

Interior styling
A4 has a slight edge. The trunk is bigger, and the overall interior design seems more attractive. The 325 Sport Package seats are better though. The worst thing about the A4's interior, is the placement of the brake / throttle. I had a heck of a time trying to heel-toe in the Audi.

Stereo
Logic 7 is sounds better than the Audi's Bose, and has the additional advantage of an AUX input for external MP3 / iPod input.

Reliablity.
Big question mark. The E90 should be a bit better, since it's mechanically simplier - there is no turbo or quattro. However, with my E46 being in the shop for 2 weeks and counting, to have it's subframe fixed, I wonder if there is a timebomb of similar magnitude, but different manifestation, in the E90. Of course Audis are not exactly know for their reliablity either.

Opinions, guys? Help? And no, the Subaru Legacy B Spec is not available where I live.

Ed

[SCA]

The Audi is not worth the additonal cash over the E90. That extra $4k could put you into a base 330.

[Plaz]

with my E46 being in the shop for 2 weeks and counting, to have it's subframe fixed

:ack:

[TD]

Pass on the S-Line and just get the stand-alone sport suspension on the A4. It'll take a big chunk off the price.

I have not driven the A4 2.0 but having driven the A3 2.0 (and knowing JST's take on the A4 2.0) and having driven the 325, I suspect the A4 will be significantly quicker (or at least *feel* significantly quicker) than the 325.

[Optimus Prime]

The Audi is not worth the additonal cash over the E90. That extra $4k could put you into a base 330.
:+1

[ed328ci]

... I suspect the A4 will be significantly quicker (or at least *feel* significantly quicker) than the 325.

Unfortunately, with Audi Canada's weird optioning scheme, I may as well go with the S Line.

And yeah, the A4 "feels" quicker in the low end. I suspect that the measured numbers would be the same though. I just have a hard time with the Audi's pedals, and with the steering. If only Audi would fix these two issues.

Ed

[JST]

Unfortunately, with Audi Canada's weird optioning scheme, I may as well go with the S Line.

And yeah, the A4 "feels" quicker in the low end. I suspect that the measured numbers would be the same though. I just have a hard time with the Audi's pedals, and with the steering. If only Audi would fix these two issues.

Ed

If it were my car, I'd go with the 325 despite the moderate power, just because the chassis is so much more balanced.

But for the extra 4K, I'd get the 330.

[ed328ci]

...But for the extra 4K, I'd get the 330.

In Canada, the price difference between 325 and 330 is 7K, and does not include Logic7.

Ed

[JST]

In Canada, the price difference between 325 and 330 is 7K, and does not include Logic7.

Ed


It's probably still worth it. Can you wait to see whether the 325-->328 change is really happening?

[TD]

What is Logic 7?

[FC]

What is Logic 7?

My guess is that it's BMW's new super duper audio system.:dunno:

[equ]

What is Logic 7?

Upgraded stereo system (standard on your future 330 :) )

[TD]

Upgraded stereo system (standard on your future 330 :) )
Oh. Okay.

You can tell that this was a priority to me.

[wdc330i]

Oh. Okay.

You can tell that this was a priority to me.

Unlike the HK system, people actually think highly of Logic 7. We don't have it in the 5, so I don't know it personally. The stock stereo in the 5 is pretty bad. Worse than the HK in my 330i.

[equ]

Oh. Okay.

You can tell that this was a priority to me.

I only know as I shopped for the car and happen to remember useless crap. I was positively impressed by the drive. Well sorted, capable and comfy. I posted a positive review that generated its healthy share of carmudgeonism.

[equ]

To the OP:

325 for sure unless you need strong deep snow capability. Also, don't forget the bmw's better backseats (not sure if you need them).

[Jeff_DML]

if you get the 2.0t are you going to chip it? Audi seats suck, they used to offer sport seats on the B5 A4, for some reason they ditched them on the newer models:irate:

why not a euro delivered 330i? should cost similiar to a non-euro 325

[lemming]

ed:

are you into ECU tuning at all? it's almost a certainty that the a4 2.0 will be putting out 230-245hp with about $800 in chip tuning. power is an easy fix on the audi. what you cannot fix without spending a lot of money is the balance of the car. correct me if i'm wrong, but the audi is a 60/40 weight distribution car and that alone will make it more difficult (not impossible) to feel more neutral.

if you're not going to get the 330 or wait for the changeover to the 328/335, i'd go audi myself.

[Jeff_DML]

suspension tuning can do a lot to help with the bad weight balance. Not to many people complain about the Evo handling at it is the crappy 60/40. I am pretty happy with my wrx setup nowdays, just 4wd pro/cons left.

[AF]

if you get the 2.0t are you going to chip it? Audi seats suck, they used to offer sport seats on the B5 A4, for some reason they ditched them on the newer models:irate:

why not a euro delivered 330i? should cost similiar to a non-euro 325

I disagree ... my last 2 audi's have had very comfortable seats .... my brothers 98 A4 had the WORST seats I ever sat in ... I think they learned from that !!!

[AF]

Ed .. .I would go with the Audi for only one reason ... you already have had a bimmer for the last few years and getting another one will offer little change. At least the Audi offers something different and it weould be nice to learn a new car, at least IMO.


They are both excellent cars so either one would be great and you really can't go wrong ...

[Rob]

FWD vs. RWD means easy decision in my book. But if you like the Audi type of car, I am sure it's a fine example.

[Jeff_DML]

I disagree ... my last 2 audi's have had very comfortable seats .... my brothers 98 A4 had the WORST seats I ever sat in ... I think they learned from that !!!

guess I should of been specific, suck because they have no side support. Comfort wise they where fine in my a4, assume new ones are the same.

[ed328ci]

Thanks guys. I am still leaning towards the BMW. I just worried about Audi's historical engine issues, and really dislike the petal placement. BTW, the body shop guys still do not know when I can have my car back.

Ed

[ed328ci]

if you get the 2.0t are you going to chip it? ...

Oh yeah. I wonder how chipping would affect long term engine life though?

Euro - delivery - no time for it.

Ed

[Jeff_DML]

... I just worried about Audi's historical engine issues, and really dislike the petal placement. ...

Ed

I ended up getting some pep-boys pedal covers on my a4 to widen up the pedals to allow easier heel-toeing

[ed328ci]

Ok, how about resale value of the 325i verses A4 2.0T? Thanks.

[lemming]

Ok, how about resale value of the 325i verses A4 2.0T? Thanks.

BMWs always kick VAG products' asses when it comes to resale.

that one is a no-brainer.

[bren]

FWD vs. RWD means easy decision in my book.

[ed328ci]

FWD vs. RWD means easy decision in my book...

AWD vs RWD, actually. :)

Ed

[Rob]

AWD vs RWD, actually. :)

Ed

I disagree. It's FWD unless it needs power in the rear and then it shifts some of it around. Even if they have supposedly moved some power to the rear, every AWD Audi I have driven feels like a FWD car to me.

But I am not the one buying the car. If you like FWD or AWD with FWD bias, it's a fine specimen. I wouldn't consider it, but I really like RWD and I don't have to deal with snow.

[Jeff_DML]

I disagree. It's FWD unless it needs power in the rear and then it shifts some of it around. Even if they have supposedly moved some power to the rear, every AWD Audi I have driven feels like a FWD car to me.

But I am not the one buying the car. If you like FWD or AWD with FWD bias, it's a fine specimen. I wouldn't consider it, but I really like RWD and I don't have to deal with snow.

sounds like you are talking about the quattro in the A3, haldex, which is basically fwd until slip. A4 has torsen awd and the default power is 50f/50f. New version of torsen is 40f/60r that is available in the new audis, RS4, A4, S8. hopefully it will spread down to the a4 but not sure if it makes that much difference anyhow.

[Rob]

40/60 is an improvement, no question. I think the biggest dissapointment was the last generation S4. I expected a great car and found FWD. Every other AWD Audi I have driven has been the same, but I have not tried the latest generation. But it still isn't RWD.

[lemming]

40/60 is an improvement, no question. I think the biggest dissapointment was the last generation S4. I expected a great car and found FWD. Every other AWD Audi I have driven has been the same, but I have not tried the latest generation. But it still isn't RWD.

because Audi has yet to design a car with true balance, i.e. 50/50 weight distribution, they really need something more radical, like 30/70 (fr/rear) to get some tossability into the chassis.

until they do that or default 5/95 biasing the rear, they'll always understeer much more than BMWs. the problem with any chassis designed from the ground up as FWD is that the weight is always 60/40.

[Jeff_DML]

not rwd but I wouldnt call it fwd, it is 4wd, which has it pros/cons like the other two:) . Havent driven a haldex awd but I dont mind you calling that fwd since is default ;) Dont disagree that 40/60 is a impovement but not sure if you can feel the difference, maybe at the track.

[AF]

BMWs always kick VAG products' asses when it comes to resale.

that one is a no-brainer.

Not in my past experiences ... I've taken some nice dives on my bimmers (four of them) and they were low mileage perfect vehicles ...

[lemming]

Not in my past experiences ... I've taken some nice dives on my bimmers (four of them) and they were low mileage perfect vehicles ...

where the hell is sarafil when i need him?

[SARAFIL]

Not in my past experiences ... I've taken some nice dives on my bimmers (four of them) and they were low mileage perfect vehicles ...

Maybe you are just having bad luck with BMWs? I'm certain that your case is not indicative of the pre-owned market for BMWs. I'm in the business. We sell BMWs, we sell Audis, we sell Mercedes, and I can keep going. No one holds resale value like BMWs.

In particular, the 3-series and X5 are VERY strong. You'd be hard pressed to find any X5 worth less than $20,000 wholesale, even if it's a 2001 with 70k miles. Same for 3-series... they're still worth high-teens after 4 years on the wholesale market, and during peak season 3 year old 325i's sell at the auctions in the $23,000 range for cars with an original MSRP between $31,000-34,000. That's very strong.

Audis are ok, but have never been strong resale cars. They hold some value but they do depreciate alot more than other cars. BMW and Audi might have similar 1st year depreciation (in reality, any one year old car is going to take a bath, that's the initial drop to bring the car in line with the fact that it is no longer new.) But, after that, BMWs stay very stable while Audis continue to drop and drop. A 2001 A4 2.8 is probably worth $11,000 today. In contrast, a 2001 325i is worth around $15,000 and a 2001 330i around $18,000 (ballpark figures). What does that tell you?

I'd love to see some proof to your claims... I've got plenty on my end that says that BMWs do just fine in resale.

[lemming]

Maybe you are just having bad luck with BMWs? I'm certain that your case is not indicative of the pre-owned market for BMWs. I'm in the business. We sell BMWs, we sell Audis, we sell Mercedes, and I can keep going. No one holds resale value like BMWs.

In particular, the 3-series and X5 are VERY strong. You'd be hard pressed to find any X5 worth less than $20,000 wholesale, even if it's a 2001 with 70k miles. Same for 3-series... they're still worth high-teens after 4 years on the wholesale market, and during peak season 3 year old 325i's sell at the auctions in the $23,000 range for cars with an original MSRP between $31,000-34,000. That's very strong.

Audis are ok, but have never been strong resale cars. They hold some value but they do depreciate alot more than other cars. BMW and Audi might have similar 1st year depreciation (in reality, any one year old car is going to take a bath, that's the initial drop to bring the car in line with the fact that it is no longer new.) But, after that, BMWs stay very stable while Audis continue to drop and drop. A 2001 A4 2.8 is probably worth $11,000 today. In contrast, a 2001 325i is worth around $15,000 and a 2001 330i around $18,000 (ballpark figures). What does that tell you?

I'd love to see some proof to your claims... I've got plenty on my end that says that BMWs do just fine in resale.

thanks for the refresher, 'fil.

i know i'm getting old, but i remember this stuff --it's these facts that have often softened my position about BMWs when recommending cars to friends. i've never thought about residual value as much as i have being around this place and it's a sneaky but important part of the transaction "total cost of ownership" to consider.

[Rob]

Hey Sarafil, what about Mercedes? I would have thought they held their value the best, but it seems like they aren't lately. Just curious.

[SARAFIL]

Hey Sarafil, what about Mercedes? I would have thought they held their value the best, but it seems like they aren't lately. Just curious.

Mercedes are at all time lows on the used car market. Right now, it's a matter of how much "below book" you want to take them in for. Large incentives on new cars and a generally lower demand have made the used car market for late model Mercedes very tough.

[Jeff_DML]

went to build a s-line on audiusa, need to buy the premium package to select it :wtf: