E46 shock tower crowning? [Archive]

lupinsea

01-20-2006, 03:16 AM

John V

01-20-2006, 06:57 AM

Funky....

I've largely settled on the E46 but I've heard a few things about the car such as the water pump and a possible "rotten sub floor" somewhere out back (I guess a weak pinch weld that can tear?). Now this?

Does anyone have an idea how serious this is for the E46? Seems like a strut brace may help or would that simply concentrade stress elsewhere?

Is this just one more thing to add to the list of stuff to watch for on the E46's?

The rear subframes are weak and the rear trailing arm mounts are weak. The rear subframe afflicted the E36 but not the E36 M3, the trailing arm mounts have been weak since the E36 was introduced. E46 has the same cooling system maladies as the E36 - most of them just aren't old enough to have issues yet.

Probably not a huge deal for a car that isn't tracked.

BahnBaum

01-20-2006, 08:31 AM

The rear subframes are weak and the rear trailing arm mounts are weak. The rear subframe afflicted the E36 but not the E36 M3, the trailing arm mounts have been weak since the E36 was introduced. E46 has the same cooling system maladies as the E36 - most of them just aren't old enough to have issues yet.

Probably not a huge deal for a car that isn't tracked.

Which means Nick's car(s) is about to implode upon itself.

Alex

01-20-2006, 08:32 AM

Great, now I have to go check my car. I've hit a couple of potholes hard in the last 38K miles.

rumatt

01-20-2006, 08:41 AM

Probably not a huge deal for a car that isn't tracked.

:speechle:

bren

01-20-2006, 08:57 AM

Sounds like another place for your BFH.

clyde

01-20-2006, 09:09 AM

Which means Nick's car(s) is about to implode upon itself.

Alex
Maybe the angioplasty will make it change its ways :dunno:

Plaz

01-20-2006, 10:47 AM

Great, now I have to go check my car. I've hit a couple of potholes hard in the last 38K miles.

:+1

(well, make that 81K miles)

rumatt

01-21-2006, 01:50 PM

OK, I just checked mine, and they're definitely not flat. And the bolts are definitely not parallel.

But I'm not convinced this is actually wrong:

1) The bolts are fixed as part of the strut assembly. (The rotating top piece, whatever that's called). If these are not parallel, then this means that after the shock tower bowed, it bent all of these bolts too? I don't remember what they looked like when they were off the car (whether they were slightly angled) but I have a hard time believing they are all bent (and if so that would be really bad. :scratch: )

2) It makes sense to have a bit of an arch in the top. When you pop the pin and slide the suspension around in the camber slots, the top is moving in a slight arch. If the top of the tower were perfectly flat, the small camber adjustment wouldn't work right.

EDIT: and even if it's not normal, if it gives me some extra negative camber, I'm not sure I care. :eeps:

Jason C

01-21-2006, 09:31 PM

But I'm not convinced this is actually wrong

It is.

rumatt

01-21-2006, 09:45 PM

It is.

Hmm, interesting. I should be perfectly flat? Mine's not even close. Should I care?

Pounding it back makes very little sense. It will just bend back and be even weaker. Maybe a strut brace makes sense.

rumatt

01-21-2006, 10:09 PM

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3824936&postcount=12

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=51717036781

01-21-2006, 10:20 PM

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showpost.php?p=3824936&postcount=12

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=51717036781

Just checked my car (without any tools but with my engineer's eye ;) :eeps: ) and it looks fine. Very flat. :)

But I think I'll order both these plates and maybe even a strut brace just in case.

Thanks for the BIG heads-up guys.:D

lemming

01-21-2006, 10:32 PM

Just checked my car (without any tools but with my engineer's eye ;) :eeps: ) and it looks fine. Very flat. :)

But I think I'll order both these plates and maybe even a strut brace just in case.

Thanks for the BIG heads-up guys.:D

relative to the cost of the car, it's an inexpensive preventative thing to do.

now i'm worried about ruefulmatt's car.

bren

01-21-2006, 11:01 PM

Hmm, interesting. I should be perfectly flat? Mine's not even close. Should I care?

Pounding it back makes very little sense. It will just bend back and be even weaker. Maybe a strut brace makes sense.
Before you start pounding on stuff you should probably get a second opinion, or at least show us some pics.

rumatt

01-22-2006, 12:11 AM

Before you start pounding on stuff you should probably get a second opinion, or at least show us some pics.

Yeah, I'm not pounding anything right now :speechle: but I will likely buy the turner reinforcements, a strut brace, or both. I'll probably try to figure out if the bolts are bent, and buy a new version of that piece as well.

The brace isn't SCCA legal so I'd need to keep taking it on and off. The reinforcements probably aren't either, but for local events I dont' care. For Topeka (and maybe tour events) I'd remove them.

I'm planning on taking my car to the track, and doing a bunch more autox's, so I'd like to figure out a good solution for all this stuff. :cry:

rumatt

01-22-2006, 10:14 AM

They sell rear ones too. Anyone know if this is a common problem?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=BMS3005-100

Plaz

01-22-2006, 11:44 AM

I'm glad I put a strut brace in several years ago... everything looks okay on first eyeballing... though I guess I have to take it off in order to really check on this.

01-22-2006, 02:06 PM

rumatt

01-22-2006, 02:20 PM

: ohsnap: Mine's definitely not quite like that. Can't take pics because my digital camera shit the bed.

PS, clean your engine bay once in a while. :p

01-22-2006, 03:20 PM

PS, clean your engine bay once in a while. :p

:twisted: I never do. Don't have the time anymore. 'Been working on the house a lot. I barely have enough time to do oil changes when I should.

Pinecone

01-22-2006, 05:52 PM

They sell rear ones too. Anyone know if this is a common problem?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=BMS3005-100

This has been a problem on many BMWs. Some people use the BMW Z3 reinforcement plates. I put the Turner plates on my E46. The GC RSMs come with reinforcement plates, which is what we have on the Roadster.

John V

01-22-2006, 07:09 PM

This has been a problem on many BMWs. Some people use the BMW Z3 reinforcement plates. I put the Turner plates on my E46. The GC RSMs come with reinforcement plates, which is what we have on the Roadster.

I had the full perimeter reinforcement plates, the factory ones off of the Z-series. Stock class illegal, but I wasn't willing to risk punching through the rear shock towers after looking at 4-5 E36s that had that happen to them.

rumatt

01-22-2006, 07:23 PM

I had the full perimeter reinforcement plates, the factory ones off of the Z-series. Stock class illegal, but I wasn't willing to risk punching through the rear shock towers after looking at 4-5 E36s that had that happen to them.

I'm gonna put them in. I would probably remove them Topeka, and maybe N.T. events, but that's about it.

If people complain, I'll DQ myself.

Pinecone

01-23-2006, 04:01 AM

Since they are not visible without removing the interior panels in the rear, and if you paint them the same as the body parts, they would be hard to see even if you pulled the panels to look. :)

Plaz

01-23-2006, 06:55 AM

Some people use the BMW Z3 reinforcement plates.

:wink2:

John V

01-23-2006, 07:02 AM

Since they are not visible without removing the interior panels in the rear, and if you paint them the same as the body parts, they would be hard to see even if you pulled the panels to look. :)

Yeah, what he said. It would be ridiculous for someone to use that as protest fodder.

rumatt

01-23-2006, 11:33 AM

Called TMS. Asked to talk to Will, but he was on the phone.

I told them my question, and he said they just put a board on it and pound it flat, then install the reinforcement. :dunno:

Pinecone

01-23-2006, 08:07 PM

Heck, put the reinforcements in, torque the bolts and retorque in a week. Should flatten right out.

I figure it is cheap insurance.

I talked to Pete at TC Kline today, and mentioned the plates. He said he had not see problems with their camber plates and shock/spring setup, but has heard of it with others due to not fitting properly at limits of camber or caster. But he agreed it was cheap insurance.

bren

01-23-2006, 08:19 PM

I talked to Pete at TC Kline today, and mentioned the plates. He said he had not see problems with their camber plates and shock/spring setup, but has heard of it with others due to not fitting properly at limits of camber or caster. But he agreed it was cheap insurance.
People have blamed GC plates for doing that for a while now.

rumatt

01-23-2006, 08:53 PM

Funny. GC bad mouths TCK plates.

I asked GC why they have separate plates for M and non-M, but TCK sells one plate. They said something to the effect of, "Because TCK doesn't have a f---ing clue what they're doing."

clyde

01-23-2006, 09:04 PM

Mention UUC (or Rob, specifically) to the guys at Rouge if you want some amusement.

01-23-2006, 09:09 PM

Mention UUC (or Rob, specifically) to the guys at Rouge if you want some amusement.
Combining "Rouge" and "guys" is always sort of funny.

BahnBaum

01-23-2006, 09:10 PM

Hatfield vs BMWMcCoys.

Alex

BahnBaum

01-23-2006, 09:11 PM

It's unfortunate that all these enthusiasts who design great products generally don't have a friggin' clue how to really run a business.

Alex

bren

01-23-2006, 09:13 PM

It's unfortunate that GROUND CONTROL don't have a friggin' clue how to really run a business.
Fixed.

rumatt

01-23-2006, 09:15 PM

Mention UUC (or Rob, specifically) to the guys at Rouge if you want some amusement.

The reverse is pretty entertaining as well.

The HACK

01-23-2006, 09:19 PM

Took two quick pictures just now. Driver's side on the left, passenger side on the right.

The passenger side seems a little off but not much (I hit a pothole very hard once with that wheel - I was surprised I did not bend it). The car's alignment is still perfect since I got it. No vibrations or anything at as much as 120mph not too long ago.

Maybe it's the camera angle, but it looks like the passenger side's strut hat/bearing bolts are bowed out. Doesn't mean you have strut tower damage, doesn't mean your alignment will be off...But the strut hat, if the picture is accurate, is toast. I wouldn't be surprised to see some cracks on your strut hat on that side, or significant bowing of the hat.

Just so you know, I hit a couple of potholes hard enough to bend a set of BBS RGRS (yeah, you read that right) and it didn't "bow" out my strut hat like that, but it did manage to rip a weld and split the sheet metal with a 1/4" gash (long, not wide...it's only a hairline crack) right behind the strut tower.

I wouldn't track the car after that, sold it to one of my mechanic's Jr. mechanics and he's been driving it on the street ever since without fixing up the poped weld and the hairline crack. Car's been solid...Again, my mechanic's recommendation was if I was EVER going to track that car again, I need to fix the problem, but for street car? Pshh.

The strut bearing/hat assembly is ~$90 for the updated one, or you can take this opportunity to put in camber plates.

BahnBaum

01-23-2006, 09:23 PM

it did manage to rip a weld and split the sheet metal with a 1/4" gash (long, not wide...it's only a hairline crack) right behind the strut tower.

I saw an e46 M3 with a similar weld seam split behind the tower that was bad enough to be noticeable from the exterior because of the noticeable change in front door gap.

Alex

JST

01-23-2006, 09:37 PM

I saw an e46 M3 with a similar weld seam split behind the tower that was bad enough to be noticeable from the exterior because of the noticeable change in front door gap.

Alex

Was it mystic blue?

BahnBaum

01-23-2006, 09:44 PM

Was it mystic blue?

Diaper mess yellow.

Alex

Plaz

01-23-2006, 09:48 PM

Diaper mess yellow.

:lol:

John V

01-23-2006, 10:00 PM

BahnBaum

01-23-2006, 10:02 PM

I know we're getting pretty far afield here, but I'm shocked (shocked) that anyone buys anything from Ground Control anymore. I can't remember the last time I heard anything good about them from a customer service standpoint.

I'm buying my GC through Bimmerworld, and so far it's been a completely different (in a good way) experience.

But there's still time for that to change.

Alex

John V

01-23-2006, 10:08 PM

I'm buying my GC through Bimmerworld, and so far it's been a completely different (in a good way) experience.

But there's still time for that to change.

Alex

That's a wise move. I tried to buy GC through MPACT, thinking I'd get better service.

My "in-stock" rear trailing arm bushing shims and swaybar drop links didn't ship until four weeks after the order was placed, nevermind that they charged my credit card the day I placed the order. No response to calls or e-mails inquiring about when they'd ship, no tracking number, they just showed up. At least they refunded me in full when I refused shipment.

They were fine back when I needed RX-7 parts (1997-1998ish), dunno what happened. Guess they got too big for themselves.

rumatt

01-23-2006, 11:38 PM

it looks like the passenger side's strut hat/bearing bolts are bowed out

Good lord, that's child's play. Wait until you see mine. :cry:

Dammit, I need a camera.

dan

01-23-2006, 11:39 PM

wanna buy a sony s-85?

rumatt

01-23-2006, 11:43 PM

wanna buy a sony s-85?

Now you tell me. I just bought something off ebay yesterday. Overpaid too, because I kept loosing auctions and I got pissed and said f-it. :irate:

Note to self: when bidding on ebay in the future, don't do so on a Sunday afternoon when everyone else in the country is bidding. :ack:

Additional note to self: when selling item, have the auction end on a sunday afternoon when everyone in the country is bidding.

dan

01-23-2006, 11:46 PM

powershot A70, huh?

:eeps:

rumatt

01-23-2006, 11:46 PM

powershot A70, huh?

:eeps:

At least I'm smart enough to buy all my gay porn with a different account. :mad2:

01-24-2006, 08:24 AM

At least I'm smart enough to buy all my gay porn with a different account. :mad2:

:lol:

01-24-2006, 08:44 AM

Maybe it's the camera angle, but it looks like the passenger side's strut hat/bearing bolts are bowed out. Doesn't mean you have strut tower damage, doesn't mean your alignment will be off...But the strut hat, if the picture is accurate, is toast. I wouldn't be surprised to see some cracks on your strut hat on that side, or significant bowing of the hat.

Just so you know, I hit a couple of potholes hard enough to bend a set of BBS RGRS (yeah, you read that right) and it didn't "bow" out my strut hat like that, but it did manage to rip a weld and split the sheet metal with a 1/4" gash (long, not wide...it's only a hairline crack) right behind the strut tower.

I wouldn't track the car after that, sold it to one of my mechanic's Jr. mechanics and he's been driving it on the street ever since without fixing up the poped weld and the hairline crack. Car's been solid...Again, my mechanic's recommendation was if I was EVER going to track that car again, I need to fix the problem, but for street car? Pshh.

The strut bearing/hat assembly is ~$90 for the updated one, or you can take this opportunity to put in camber plates.

OK... So, should I get two of these assemblies and do both sides?:?

What benefit do I get from camber plates if I will only autox/track casually?

What the hell does GC sell that you guys keep refering too?

General question, how difficult is it to remove a strut assy and work on suspension stuff? Never done it before.

rumatt

01-24-2006, 10:48 AM

or you can take this opportunity to put in camber plates.

You miserable son-of-a-bitch, reincarnation of the devil. Now you have me thinking about whether I should just buy camber plates and a coil-over conversion kit, rather than new OEM parts.

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

01-24-2006, 10:52 AM

You miserable son-of-a-bitch, reincarnation of the devil. Now you have me thinking about whether I should just buy camber plates and a coil-over conversion kit, rather than new OEM parts.

:mad2: :mad2: :mad2:

What exactly are coilovers? :? I know, I'm a newbie.:(

And, um, the language is getting a tad strong 'round here lately. :eeps:

:D

rumatt

01-24-2006, 10:56 AM

OK... So, should I get two of these assemblies and do both sides?:?

What benefit do I get from camber plates if I will only autox/track casually?

What the hell does GC sell that you guys keep refering too?

General question, how difficult is it to remove a strut assy and work on suspension stuff? Never done it before.

Camber plates give you adjustable camber. If you have no desire for this, then you probably don't want camber plates. They're noisy, mess with your alignment, expensive. :dunno:

Removing the strut assembly is pretty easy. Jack up car, unbolt it. However, disassembling it to remove the top hat requires a spring compressor. Still not rocket science, but a bigger step if you're clueless (like I was the first time I did it).

I have a spring compressor (thanks to doug.. call it the carmudgeon's compressor) so we could have a suspension party at some point, if the scheduling worked out.

01-24-2006, 11:15 AM

Camber plates give you adjustable camber. If you have no desire for this, then you probably don't want camber plates. They're noisy, mess with your alignment, expensive. :dunno:

Removing the strut assembly is pretty easy. Jack up car, unbolt it. However, disassembling it to remove the top hat requires a spring compressor. Still not rocket science, but a bigger step if you're clueless (like I was the first time I did it).

I have a spring compressor (thanks to doug.. call it the carmudgeon's compressor) so we could have a suspension party at some point, if the scheduling worked out.

Cool. I'd be up for a suspension party, NorthEast faction.

I figured I would not need camber plates.

The HACK

01-24-2006, 11:43 PM

OK... So, should I get two of these assemblies and do both sides?:?

What benefit do I get from camber plates if I will only autox/track casually?

What the hell does GC sell that you guys keep refering too?

General question, how difficult is it to remove a strut assy and work on suspension stuff? Never done it before.

You will need a spring compressor to replace the strut hat, and if you want to torque the top nut down properly you need a BMW special tool, although most seem to think that an impact wrench would do the job just as well.

Benefits to camber plates? You can run mad camber up front to get that bowed out look, which is tite yo.

01-25-2006, 08:27 AM

Benefits to camber plates? You can run mad camber up front to get that bowed out look, which is tite yo.

:lol: Yeah, I ain't down widdat.

:eeps:

I'm fine with the stock camber. So this strut hat, that's what rumatt is looking for right?:? (other thread) (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=6466)

bren

01-25-2006, 08:58 AM

So this strut hat, that's what rumatt is looking for right?:? (other thread) (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=6466)
No, that's the lower spring perch. The strut hat sits on top of the spring/strut...it's not shown in the diagram.

01-25-2006, 09:11 AM

No, that's the lower spring perch. The strut hat sits on top of the spring/strut...it's not shown in the diagram.

Ah. Ok. It didn't make to me, but sice both were calling it a "hat"....

Anyway, thanks.

bren

01-25-2006, 12:02 PM

Looks like BMW doesn't want to take any chances on the race car...check out the strut towers.

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/alms/2006/swt/alms-2006-swt-eg-0099.jpg

01-25-2006, 12:15 PM

Looks like BMW doesn't want to take any chances on the race car...check out the strut towers.

http://www.motorsport.com/photos/alms/2006/swt/alms-2006-swt-eg-0099.jpg

Damn!:eek:

rumatt

01-26-2006, 02:06 PM

Here's mine.

Bolts look perfectly parallel to me. :speechle:

01-26-2006, 02:09 PM

Here's mine.

Bolts look perfectly parallel to me. :speechle:

Fock!:eek:

bren

01-26-2006, 02:34 PM

Looks like that ebay camera works ok :p

That's not so bad. I wonder if it was like that prior to Topeka.

01-26-2006, 02:39 PM

Looks like that ebay camera works ok :p

That's not so bad. I wonder if it was like that prior to Topeka.

Sure looks worse than mine.

Where's HACK with the parallelism study on these bolts?:p

rumatt

01-26-2006, 02:50 PM

That's not so bad. I wonder if it was like that prior to Topeka.

Yeah, it's really not so bad. But it's obviously not flat. I'll flatten it out, put in the reinforcements, and call it a day. I'll also get new hats, but I won't bother putting them in until I swap the springs back to the Koni's for autox season.

I doubt it all happened in Topeka. Our local lot is pretty bumpy, so I wouldn't be surprised if it was the bumps + r-comps + stiff shocks.

Thanks to all you clowns for warning me about this before it happened. :irate: :mad2:

Jason C

01-26-2006, 04:25 PM

Here's mine.

!@#$%^&* :nono:

Strut tower brace with the reinforcement plates, right?

rumatt

01-26-2006, 04:28 PM

Strut tower brace with the reinforcement plates, right?

What I'm going to do? Yes. I previously had no reinforcements.

If anyone sees an OEM M3 Strut tower brace for sale used anywhere, I'll take it.

Jason C

01-26-2006, 04:37 PM

What I'm going to do? Yes. I previously had no reinforcements.

If anyone sees an OEM M3 Strut tower brace for sale used anywhere, I'll take it.

Don't worry about them banging it back in place before adding the reinforcements. :)

rumatt

01-28-2006, 02:59 PM

Reinforcement plates installed. You can see the thin black plate inside the tower.

Question: Is there enough bolt remaining for me to install an OEM M3 Strut brace?

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=509&stc=1&d=1138478343

dan

01-28-2006, 03:54 PM

:gay:

yes, that should be enough bolt

clyde

01-28-2006, 04:05 PM

:gay:

that was my first thought about the color too

rumatt

01-28-2006, 04:09 PM

:flipoff: :twisted: :coolspit:

rumatt

01-28-2006, 10:21 PM

BahnBaum

01-28-2006, 11:15 PM

Clean that car please.

Alex

Pinecone

01-29-2006, 06:50 AM

robg

01-29-2006, 08:17 PM

By the way, the "turner reinforcements" aren't "turner" anything. They come with original BMW stickers on them, as shown in the picture on the turner site. I think they're from the XI http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1530054&postcount=22

Yes, I think you're right that they're from the xi. I remember reading that the xi's have some suspension reinforcements for "light off roading". BMW forgets that, basically, almost all roads in the US could count as "light off roading" by German standards.

rumatt

02-04-2006, 01:23 PM

yes, that should be enough bolt

Bzzzzzzt. Not even close. :(

I bought a used strut brace. There's no where near enough bolt left when I put the strut brace on (given that I have the reinforcement installed as well).

Even more bizarre is that the strut brace seems to have "feet", which partly defeats the purpose of the why I wanted it. It's only making contact with the tower in the area right around the bolt. :confused: it seem to me that it would still help some by keeping the bolts parallel, but I don't see how it will prevent the tower from bending.

I think I'm sticking with the reinforcement, and skipping the bar. MBR, unless I figure out a way to use it, you can have the bar for what I paid if you want it ($180) and I could bring it to boston in two weeks, but I'd recommend the turner kit instead. :dunno:

dan

02-04-2006, 01:30 PM

Bzzzzzzt. Not even close. :(

I bought a used strut brace. There's no where near enough bolt left when I put the strut brace on (given that I have the reinforcement installed as well).

do you have all the hardware? did you try it? the nut has a collar that extends down under the brace bracket

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/strutbracee46m3-2.jpg

:dunno:

dan

02-04-2006, 01:36 PM

here's what mine looked like

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=521&d=1139078170

.

rumatt

02-04-2006, 01:45 PM

Gack! Really? just a couple threads?

dan

02-04-2006, 01:50 PM

no, there are a lot of threads in that sleeve that extends down below the bracket

rumatt

02-04-2006, 02:02 PM

do you have all the hardware? did you try it? the nut has a collar that extends down under the brace bracket

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/strutbracee46m3-2.jpg

:dunno:

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. I need to buy those. Thanks.

$7.60 each???? WTF!?

Terri Kennedy

02-04-2006, 03:09 PM

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhh.. I need to buy those. Thanks.

$7.60 each???? WTF!?They're one-time-use only. BTW, I have an xi (with the reinforcement plate stock) and I had plenty of bolt length for the brace. Perhaps the xi and "poor road package" struts have longer bolts?

rumatt

02-04-2006, 03:14 PM

They're one-time-use only.

Que pasa? So if I install the bar, then take it off for an autox event where it's not legal, I technically need 6 new bolts at $7.60 each to put it back on? :eek:

Yeah right. That's gonna happen. :rolleyes2

02-04-2006, 03:23 PM

Bzzzzzzt. Not even close. :(

I bought a used strut brace. There's no where near enough bolt left when I put the strut brace on (given that I have the reinforcement installed as well).

Even more bizarre is that the strut brace seems to have "feet", which partly defeats the purpose of the why I wanted it. It's only making contact with the tower in the area right around the bolt. :confused: it seem to me that it would still help some by keeping the bolts parallel, but I don't see how it will prevent the tower from bending.

I think I'm sticking with the reinforcement, and skipping the bar. MBR, unless I figure out a way to use it, you can have the bar for what I paid if you want it ($180) and I could bring it to boston in two weeks, but I'd recommend the turner kit instead. :dunno:

Thanks for the offer, really. I just don't think I'm going to go with a brace. At least not yet. I've yet to even order the reinforcment plates. I think they will be enough. PLus, as you said, the bosses on the holes really defeat our purpose fo rthe brace.

BTW, if you want to meet up or anything, let me know. Don't want to intrude on your romantic weekend or anything.;)

dan

02-04-2006, 03:43 PM

They're one-time-use only.

nah

dan

02-04-2006, 03:44 PM

rumatt, I'll buy the bar for $75

:D :ack:

JST

02-04-2006, 06:25 PM

They're one-time-use only. BTW, I have an xi (with the reinforcement plate stock) and I had plenty of bolt length for the brace. Perhaps the xi and "poor road package" struts have longer bolts?

They are only one-time use only because they come smeared with Loc-Tite. Buy some Loc-Tite, dab it in the threads, and I cannot imagine why you could reuse them. They are, after all, torqued to a fairly low spec (25 Nm?).

The HACK

02-04-2006, 10:04 PM

Que pasa? So if I install the bar, then take it off for an autox event where it's not legal, I technically need 6 new bolts at $7.60 each to put it back on? :eek:

Yeah right. That's gonna happen. :rolleyes2

The edge of the thread is tapered so it's self locking, but after you use them once the tapered end expands so yes they are definitely one use only if you plan on sticking with BMW's recommendations.

However, my recommendation is for you to buy a tube of loctite, and apply a touch of blue loctite on the thread everytime you remove the bar. It'll serve the same function as the tapered threads for the self locking purposes.

JST

02-04-2006, 10:59 PM

The edge of the thread is tapered so it's self locking, but after you use them once the tapered end expands so yes they are definitely one use only if you plan on sticking with BMW's recommendations.

However, my recommendation is for you to buy a tube of loctite, and apply a touch of blue loctite on the thread everytime you remove the bar. It'll serve the same function as the tapered threads for the self locking purposes.

Huh.

If it's self-locking, how come it has that Loc-Tite in there from the factory?

rumatt

02-05-2006, 12:17 AM

If it's self-locking, how come it has that Loc-Tite in there from the factory?

Maybe a "one-use self-locking nut" is simply one that has some loc-tite preapplied. Buy a tube of loc-tite and you can re-torque your nuts as often as you want. :ack:

Pinecone

02-05-2006, 08:32 PM

Well, none of use have repalced them due to one time use, and not had a problem. And we don't even locktite them. And heck, Nick's frotn struts ahve been off at least 15 - 20 times.

From the feel of them going on, I would say that the only one time feature is the per-applied locktite. They don't go on like true locking thread nuts.

Also the "feet" are to allow the bar to fit tight on the strut tower with the ribs that are there, so there is more contact. You can probably get by with removing the cross bar for autocross and leave the plates in place.

rumatt

02-05-2006, 09:35 PM

Also the "feet" are to allow the bar to fit tight on the strut tower with the ribs that are there,

Ribs? My strut towers are flat on top. Yours aren't?. :dunno:

lupinsea

02-06-2006, 01:54 AM

Ribs?
For your pleasure. :thumbup:

The HACK

02-06-2006, 01:31 PM

Huh.

If it's self-locking, how come it has that Loc-Tite in there from the factory?

Who said there's loctite on the bolts?

The threads TAPER, meaning they get thinner as you get to the top of the nut. The taper design means you use them once then the taper expands, and you remove them the shape of the thread has already been changed.

I'm not saying that you should NOT re-use them, because they are freakin' expensive. All I am saying is that for a part that's constantly subject to vibration and load, to be safe from it backing out you should use a touch of loctite after every removal just to be certain, because the nut is designed to be one use only. As you remove and re-install those nuts, the tapered end continue to spread and you will need to tighten it more and more to hold the nut in.

dan

02-06-2006, 04:40 PM

Who said there's loctite on the bolts?
you can see it in the pic

The HACK

02-06-2006, 04:57 PM

you can see it in the pic

The ones that I got didn't have the loctite but you can clearly see the tapering thread.

I didn't bother to read through the entire thread here...But now that you pointed out, it does appear in the picture there's som loctite pre-applied.

02-06-2006, 05:32 PM

The ones that I got didn't have the loctite but you can clearly see the tapering thread.

I didn't bother to read through the entire thread here...But now that you pointed out, it does appear in the picture there's som loctite pre-applied.

True, but I do not see a taper on the threads. Granted, the loctite approach is the preferable one if one plans to reuse the nuts. I would prefer the tapered nuts for a one time use scenario.

Pinecone

02-06-2006, 08:12 PM

Mine don't have any taper. And didn't when new. I installed my strut brace (probably the last car off the line without out :( ). And the nuts spun on by hand. And since the stud doesn't go to the top of the nut due to the attachment plate, they would have to have one heck of a taper to work.

Unless you are talking about the stock, non-strut brace nuts, those I have no idea how they are.