Participated in Automobile Focus Group Today

[GSR13]

Last week I filled out a survey in regards to a Focus Group. I was sent this survey because I own an E46 and it paid $75.00 for a couple of hours. I qualified and my appointment was today at 12:30:00. I was given a three ring binder and taken into a warehouse with black curtains. Behind these curtains were four cars:

Cadillac CTS
BMW 330i Sport
VW Jetta
Chevy Impala

All the cars had their markings covered with Duct Tape we were not told what type of cars they were. Each one was Silver Exterior/Black Interior and all were Automatics.

The first section of the binder asked opinions on my car, rating different aspects on a 1 to 5 scale, much like the BMW Survey. The second section asked me to write postive and negatives about my current car.

Finally, I was asked to grade all four vehicles on individually. I had to grade the front end and headlight appearance, the side view, rear view and overall quality of appearance. Then I was asked to sit in the drivers seat and observe the interior ergonomics, quality of materials and how much storage space there was. In addition, I was asked about the vents, cupholders and steering wheel. Obviously, the guys knew what car I personally own, so they asked that I pay particular attention to the other three.

After making my observations, I was "debriefed" by one of the workers and asked specific questions comparing the CTS and the E46. This is when it became apparent what the Focus Group was about, how to make the CTS a better competitor to the E46. The worker even admitted as much.

I feel, personally, that I gave the most honest answers I could. Obviously, 99% of the people could not care less about the input I offered, but who knows.

I will say this, the CTS is actually pretty nice on the inside. I expressed this, but also expressed that I could never consider a vehicle a competitor unless I actually drove it. The gentleman seemed to truly appreciate my input and it was pretty cool. That said, I was really hoping it would be the E90.

[SpaceMonk]

Interesting. I think the CTS interior looks cheap and lousy.

[GSR13]

Interesting. I think the CTS interior looks cheap and lousy.

I thought the vents looked cheap, but otherwise I was pleasantly surprised. I guess my shock was in the gauges, as I thought they looked good. Plus, the center stack was tilted towards the driver, much like BMW, and that surprised me.

I hated the cupholders, on all four cars and explained that to the guy doing the interview.

The one that really surprised me was the Jetta. I was really disappointed in the Jetta they had. I have been in an upper end Jetta and it was much, much better. This one was awful. The interior was cheap and the doors were light and cheap feeling. The backseat was small, as expected, but also much more uncomfortable than I would have guessed.

I was just surprised I liked the interior of the CTS as much as I did. Given the front, I had pretty much written off that car.

[clyde]

Interesting. I think the CTS interior looks cheap and lousy.

The one thing that I really didn't care for in the CTS interior that I can remember (from over a year ago) was the wood steering wheel (hmm, maybe the stereo display too :scratch: ). I remember liking the rest of it.

[blee]

The CTS steering wheel has a bit of that Mack truck appearance to it, mostly due to its size. And the stack of climate control and stereo controls aren't bad, but they do not strike me as looking particularly "rich." However, the overall effect is quite good, and I would definitely give the CTS interior a solid 8 out of 10. I'm kinda partial to American cars to begin with, but I truly believe that Cadillac is increasingly representative of GM at its best. Once the Cavalier and Sunfire finally disappear from the lineup, I'll have to look around the rest of the family for a good example of GM's worst.

[lemming]

autoweek recently reported the completion of the "lutz-burgring", a small scale copy of the n'ring on the GM proving grounds.

this, plus the fact that the CTS was actually designed on the real ring....plus the fact that the CTS V can do the 'ring is a pretty sick time.......

..i'm happily surprised that maybe cadillac is starting to benchmark BMW instead of lincoln!

thanks for the post, GSR.

[Plaz]

Surely none of you E60 haters think the CTS/CTS-V are better looking than the E60, do you?

[clyde]

Surely none of you E60 haters think the CTS/CTS-V are better looking than the E60, do you?
I'm not an E60 h8r, but I prefer the look of the CTS/CTS-V to the E60. I also think that the Caddy's looks will age better than the E60's (partly due to where the Caddy's looks will likely slot in amongst all other cars over the coming years)

[GSR13]

Surely none of you E60 haters think the CTS/CTS-V are better looking than the E60, do you?
I'm not an E60 h8r, but I prefer the look of the CTS/CTS-V to the E60. I also think that the Caddy's looks will age better than the E60's (partly due to where the Caddy's looks will likely slot in amongst all other cars over the coming years)

While I really dislike is the front of the CTS, and a few other minor elements, I also believe the car will age well. Honestly though, most GM cars age well to me, and I am not much of an American Car fan.

The worst, to me, have to be the Japanese makes such as Lexus, Toyota and Honda. It could, of course, be overkill in seeing a million Camry's and Accords on the road, but within a few years the cars just look dated. As much as I like the S2000, it already looks old.

I did tell the guy interviewing a few things:

1. The wood grain had to go. To really compete in this segment, for me, the car interior needed a more aggressive interior.

2. Rear Wheel Drive had to stay and manual tranny was a must. Without these two elements I would never even consider the car.

3. Keep the center stack pointed towards the driver. Driving should be about the driver, the passengers need only hold on. :D

I am still pretty shocked at how well I liked the Caddy. I was really expecting to trash the two GM Cars, like the Jetta and come across as a BMW lemming. But I believe I was fair.

[GSR13]

The CTS steering wheel has a bit of that Mack truck appearance to it, mostly due to its size. And the stack of climate control and stereo controls aren't bad, but they do not strike me as looking particularly "rich." However, the overall effect is quite good, and I would definitely give the CTS interior a solid 8 out of 10. I'm kinda partial to American cars to begin with, but I truly believe that Cadillac is increasingly representative of GM at its best. Once the Cavalier and Sunfire finally disappear from the lineup, I'll have to look around the rest of the family for a good example of GM's worst.

My wife, before getting the Z3, owned a 1996 Sunfire. She wanted the car, as is typical, because she thought it was cute. :roll: It was awful.

So yesterday, when I was looking at the Impala, I had these huge Sunfire flashbacks. Like suddenly all my BMW ownership had been nothing but a dream and the Sunfire was back. I was pretty glad to get out of that car.

So, when I was being debriefed the guy asked me what I thought of that car. I said, well, it screams cheap and I had flashbacks to my wife's Pontiac, neither emotion I would think GM was after. :lol:

To my surprise, he wrote that down.

[blee]

The Impala, while not exactly the pinnacle of interior quality, is not a bad mid-size family car. The problem, of course, is that there is LOTS AND LOTS of competition in that segment, and just being "solid" is not enough to win. I do like the new Impala SS, although the concept of putting that supercharged engine in the W-body is about seven years old already. I really liked my GTP, despite the Duplo interior.

One thing's for sure - the Cavalier and Sunfire have GOT to go. They were fair-to-middling in the late 80s, but they've declined ever since. The new models are in the enviable position of both looking horrible and actually being horrible. You can't even say that about BMW! :D

[lemming]

The Impala, while not exactly the pinnacle of interior quality, is not a bad mid-size family car. The problem, of course, is that there is LOTS AND LOTS of competition in that segment, and just being "solid" is not enough to win. I do like the new Impala SS, although the concept of putting that supercharged engine in the W-body is about seven years old already. I really liked my GTP, despite the Duplo interior.

One thing's for sure - the Cavalier and Sunfire have GOT to go. They were fair-to-middling in the late 80s, but they've declined ever since. The new models are in the enviable position of both looking horrible and actually being horrible. You can't even say that about BMW! :D

i agree with most of the people in this thread. i am still in shock that GM has funded cadillac to actually benchmark BMW. that's truly audacious for that corporate culture.

these are bean counters people. they cancel cars and shut down plants if they cannot sell more than 30,000-40,000 cars a year of a certain model. that's why the firebird/camaros died.

i'm not sure how they even keep teh corvette, but clearly the XLR being around guarantees life in the car --i'm sure that it's been closer than we know, ax'ing the corvette even though it's their halo car.

the 3.6 litre DOHC engine in the CTS is pretty decent if you consider that a 993 engine is 3.6 litres (285hp/250ft#'s) versus this output of 260hp. the CTS V is just gravy.

but no, i don't think the CTS V is "better" looking than the E60, more cohesive and more consistent in its design philosophy, though. and i'd sure as hell buy a V series before i bought any E60 short of the M5.

[TD]

Surely none of you E60 haters think the CTS/CTS-V are better looking than the E60, do you?

MUCH better, in fact. Honest. I'm not just saying this.

[glaws]

The CTS steering wheel has a bit of that Mack truck appearance to it, mostly due to its size. And the stack of climate control and stereo controls aren't bad, but they do not strike me as looking particularly "rich." However, the overall effect is quite good, and I would definitely give the CTS interior a solid 8 out of 10. I'm kinda partial to American cars to begin with, but I truly believe that Cadillac is increasingly representative of GM at its best. Once the Cavalier and Sunfire finally disappear from the lineup, I'll have to look around the rest of the family for a good example of GM's worst.

You are partial to American cars?? :awe:

[JST]

but no, i don't think the CTS V is "better" looking than the E60, more cohesive and more consistent in its design philosophy, though. and i'd sure as hell buy a V series before i bought any E60 short of the M5.

What he said. I don't think "Art and Science" works particularly well on the CTS--the SRX and XLR are much better realizations of the theme. And I prefer the softened "Art and Science" look of the Sixteen to the current knife-edge styling (as is true of Lutz, so I understand, which means that's where Cadillac design is headed).

Like Infiniti, I think Cadillac has shown that they are on a remarkable roll. The CTS is an excellent car. The SRX is an excellent SUV. The XLR is a damn nice spendy roadster. None of them are clearly best in class, but you could make a legitimate argument for each one--and that's coming a looong way from where Cadillac was just 3 or 4 years ago.

And I think the Sixteen shows that Americans can still out-audacious anybody. Honestly, if GM were to build the Sixteen, who would buy the milquetoast Maybach or the goofy Phantom instead?

As with pdz, I will consider a CTS long before I consider an E60. Partly this is styling, and partly it's that for the cost of a 225 hp 530 Cadillac will sell me a 400 hp CTS. I'm no scientician, but that sounds like a good deal to me.

[lemming]

but no, i don't think the CTS V is "better" looking than the E60, more cohesive and more consistent in its design philosophy, though. and i'd sure as hell buy a V series before i bought any E60 short of the M5.

What he said. I don't think "Art and Science" works particularly well on the CTS--the SRX and XLR are much better realizations of the theme. And I prefer the softened "Art and Science" look of the Sixteen to the current knife-edge styling (as is true of Lutz, so I understand, which means that's where Cadillac design is headed).

Like Infiniti, I think Cadillac has shown that they are on a remarkable roll. The CTS is an excellent car. The SRX is an excellent SUV. The XLR is a damn nice spendy roadster. None of them are clearly best in class, but you could make a legitimate argument for each one--and that's coming a looong way from where Cadillac was just 3 or 4 years ago.

And I think the Sixteen shows that Americans can still out-audacious anybody. Honestly, if GM were to build the Sixteen, who would buy the milquetoast Maybach or the goofy Phantom instead?

As with pdz, I will consider a CTS long before I consider an E60. Partly this is styling, and partly it's that for the cost of a 225 hp 530 Cadillac will sell me a 400 hp CTS. I'm no scientician, but that sounds like a good deal to me.

all i'm saying is that i sat in (didn't drive) the CTS V locally. for $49k (and i could get GMS pricing off of that), it's a really nice car. i'm not hugely into interiors, so it was "okay". still some GM content here and there, but overall, i like the CTS interior --although, i would argue that they could improve things if they sent their interior people off to trollhattan for a semester or sabbatical.

then it would be a rather complete package. am sure that as the model run continues there will be improvement. unlike BMW, which come out of the box as USUALLY decent.

[Rob]

Well, since this thread has turned into a CTS comparo -

My brother has a CTS. Well, actually, he has a pie wagon now and my sister in law drives the CTS. Regardless - it's nice. It's not like a typical cadilllac at all. It handles fairly well, it has decent torque and power (he has the six), it's very large inside and - well, I ran out of compliments. It is 5 series size I think. It doesn't handle like a BMW. It has what I consider to be a somewhat goofy interior, but then so does the new 5.

It does not have the road feel or steering feel of a 3 series. It is not as fast off the line as a 330i. I bet the V fixes that.

I wouldn't trade either of the BMW's I have owned for one. On the other hand, my brother looked at everything, including BMWs and decided on the Caddy.

Is the V available for purchase yet?

[blee]

You are partial to American cars?? :awe:

Surprised?

[lemming]

Well, since this thread has turned into a CTS comparo -

My brother has a CTS. Well, actually, he has a pie wagon now and my sister in law drives the CTS. Regardless - it's nice. It's not like a typical cadilllac at all. It handles fairly well, it has decent torque and power (he has the six), it's very large inside and - well, I ran out of compliments. It is 5 series size I think. It doesn't handle like a BMW. It has what I consider to be a somewhat goofy interior, but then so does the new 5.

It does not have the road feel or steering feel of a 3 series. It is not as fast off the line as a 330i. I bet the V fixes that.

I wouldn't trade either of the BMW's I have owned for one. On the other hand, my brother looked at everything, including BMWs and decided on the Caddy.

Is the V available for purchase yet?

the V series is, in fact, up for sale now at dealerships nationwide.

if it's in new england, it must be everywhere.

[JetBlack330i]

Why did they waste your time by throwing in a Jetta and an Impala in the comparo? Why didn't they use an Audi or Volvo, for example?

[GSR13]

Why did they waste your time by throwing in a Jetta and an Impala in the comparo? Why didn't they use an Audi or Volvo, for example?

I really wish I could answer that. Unless GM was somehow comparing the VW with the Chevy. All the direct comparisons were between the CTS/BMW and the VW/Chevy. Naturally, all the emphasis was on the CTS/BMW comparison, so I have no idea what the other two were doing there.

[GSR13]

Okay, two things:

1. Mistake on my part. It was NOT an Impala, it was a Malibu. I had to double check the GM Site and just verified. It was a Malibu. Not that it changes my opinions, but I hated not to correct this. Sorry.

2. I also checked Cadillac's website and found the CTS-V listed. They show some Exterior/Interior shots and the interior looks a little better than the one I saw. It is Black with Aluminum Trim, which is what I like. Gone is the Wood Grain. The Steering Wheel is still a little lacking, but overall it looks pretty good.

Still not wild about the front and that Cadillac emblem just doesn't say performance. I just think GM will have a hard time pushing any Caddy to your average 3-Series buyer.

[lemming]

Okay, two things:

1. Mistake on my part. It was NOT an Impala, it was a Malibu. I had to double check the GM Site and just verified. It was a Malibu. Not that it changes my opinions, but I hated not to correct this. Sorry.

2. I also checked Cadillac's website and found the CTS-V listed. They show some Exterior/Interior shots and the interior looks a little better than the one I saw. It is Black with Aluminum Trim, which is what I like. Gone is the Wood Grain. The Steering Wheel is still a little lacking, but overall it looks pretty good.

Still not wild about the front and that Cadillac emblem just doesn't say performance. I just think GM will have a hard time pushing any Caddy to your average 3-Series buyer.

i don't think they're necessarily going to be able to steal 3 series buyers....yet.

maybe with the next generation car. but they're on the right track and i applaud the effort. even if you steal buyers from the faux luxe brands like infiniti and lexus and acura, it's still okay for GM.

cadillac is on the right track and that's exciting.

[blee]

Okay, two things:

1. Mistake on my part. It was NOT an Impala, it was a Malibu. I had to double check the GM Site and just verified. It was a Malibu. Not that it changes my opinions, but I hated not to correct this. Sorry.

2. I also checked Cadillac's website and found the CTS-V listed. They show some Exterior/Interior shots and the interior looks a little better than the one I saw. It is Black with Aluminum Trim, which is what I like. Gone is the Wood Grain. The Steering Wheel is still a little lacking, but overall it looks pretty good.

Still not wild about the front and that Cadillac emblem just doesn't say performance. I just think GM will have a hard time pushing any Caddy to your average 3-Series buyer.

Ah, the Malibu. Not anyone's favorite car. :) I've never sat in or driven one before.

I think you're right about the Cadillac crest and the (non-)perception of performance and quality. It will probably take a few years before that changes, and it all hinges on the current generation of models. I think they're absolutely headed in the right direction...and perhaps I'll have more to say about that after NAIAS.