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Jason C
11-14-2005, 06:08 PM
Use of faster in-car data network could help revive by-wire technologies
RALPH KISIEL | Automotive News
Posted Date: 11/11/05

MUNICH, Germany -- Automakers are close to adopting a faster in-car data network standard that could revive brake-by-wire and other by-wire technologies.

Analysts say BMW AG will introduce the FlexRay high-bandwidth data network on a limited basis in the next-generation X5 SUV in fall 2006.

BMW will use the system only to control dampers on the X5 suspension, says analyst Chris Webber, vice president of Strategy Analytics' automotive practice in the United Kingdom.

"It's the first production application of FlexRay in the world," he said.

The first automaker will use the full FlexRay network on a production vehicle by late 2008, predicts Stephan Lehmann, strategic marketing manager for Freescale Semiconductor's global automotive business.

Freescale is a founding member of the FlexRay Consortium. It includes core members Volkswagen AG, BMW, DaimlerChrysler AG, General Motors and suppliers Robert Bosch GmbH and Royal Philips Electronics. The consortium was created in 2000 to develop a more robust in-vehicle network as an industry standard.

Today's in-vehicle networks cannot carry the increasing data load fast enough and reliably enough to operate advanced systems such as brake-by-wire.

At least one manufacturer has delayed its brake-by-wire program because the car's data network was not fast enough or reliable enough.

By-wire systems remove mechanical links between the driver and critical systems. So their control networks require both freedom from random false signals and enough speed to handle multiple confirming signals.

At 20 megabytes a second, FlexRay network can transmit data 20 times faster than a current controller area network system.

The group developed FlexRay for advanced car control systems such as brake-by-wire.

Now automakers are considering using this larger electronic pipeline as a vehicle's primary network.

With FlexRay's high-bandwidth capabilities, large amounts of detailed information can be communicated very rapidly. That allows extremely quick and precise mechanical responses.

It also can tie all the existing networks together.



Eh... better luck this time debuting lots of neat techno-gizmos! Took them a few years before they sorted out the 65/66 so that it would be *stable*. :eeps:

Rob
11-14-2005, 06:58 PM
I just don't understand. Why is brake by wire desireable? Sure, the throttle management from throttle by wire improved fuel economy. Is this going to somehow make it take longer to replace brake pads so BMW doesn't have to change them under free maintenance as often? At the normal life of a brake pad, I think this technology better be pretty damn cheap if that's the pay off.

Jason C
11-14-2005, 07:10 PM
I just don't understand. Why is brake by wire desireable?

Easy. It makes incorporating more electronic safety nets a cinch.

Just like electronic throttle. ASC/DSC can take over the operation of load control as needed, overriding driver request.

So let's transfer this to electronic braking. Driver suddenly lifts off of throttle, like he's about to run into a concrete median (or, like he's approaching turn 1). Computer sees this behavior and "pre-loads" the ABS circuit. The moment the driver so much as breathes on the brakes, it does a max-power panic stop... automatically, even if the driver then lifts off the brake pedal. Lexus and Benz already have (or will have) introduced similar systems by now.

It is not absolutely necessary to resort to electronic brake control to achieve the above (or other goals) but the task is simplified, and presumably costs go down.

Nick M3
11-14-2005, 07:29 PM
Yayness. So we can have more accidents because the fucking car's brakes bluescreened.

For example, I have this *cough* friend... His Mom has an SL55 AMG. The brakes on that car have crashed at least three times. Once, they crashed while I was driving (sweet feeling, btw), and twice they crashed my *cough*friend's Mom was driving. One of these failures resulted in an accident.

Yay for Brake-By-Wire!!!!

blee
11-14-2005, 08:13 PM
:( The aftermarket for these cars is going to be fun.

Mr. The Edge
11-15-2005, 12:52 AM
Yayness. So we can have more accidents because the fucking car's brakes bluescreened.

For example, I have this *cough* friend... His Mom has an SL55 AMG. The brakes on that car have crashed at least three times. Once, they crashed while I was driving (sweet feeling, btw), and twice they crashed my *cough*friend's Mom was driving. One of these failures resulted in an accident.

Yay for Brake-By-Wire!!!!

I don't quite understand the reason why you are trying to mask the fact that your Mom drives an SL55 AMG. :dunno:

BahnBaum
11-15-2005, 08:37 AM
I don't quite understand the reason why you are trying to mask the fact that your Mom drives an SL55 AMG. :dunno:

All part of Nick's attempts to blend in with the hoi polloi. :D



Now if he could just find a way to force himself to wear a pair of jeans.

Alex

Pinecone
11-15-2005, 09:52 AM
At least while working on cars. :)

Khakis and polo shirt are NOT work clothes. :)

ff
11-15-2005, 09:53 AM
By-wire systems remove mechanical links between the driver and critical systems.

:grouphug: :drinksol: : pint: :line: :group: :groupjump :banana: :drool: :thumbup:

Two more cheers for BMW!!!!

Again, with all the electronic crap they're putting on cars that further isolate you from the driving experience, what's the point of driving at all? You might as well take the bus.

blee
11-15-2005, 10:10 AM
Hey, does this mean I can finally eat my Froot Loops while talking on my BT-enabled speakerphone and checking my email?

Nick M3
11-15-2005, 10:40 AM
I don't quite understand the reason why you are trying to mask the fact that your Mom drives an SL55 AMG. :dunno:
My friend's Mom and Mercedes would prefer that this not be published. :p My Mom *also* has an SL55 AMG, just like my friend's Mom.

rumatt
11-15-2005, 11:14 AM
I don't quite understand the reason why you are trying to mask the fact that your Mom drives an SL55 AMG. :dunno:

If I were him I'd be more concerned about hiding the fact that I'm sleeping with one of my friends' moms.

clyde
11-15-2005, 11:49 AM
If I were him I'd be more concerned about hiding the fact that I'm sleeping with one of my friends' moms.
That's okay. She's so "cool" that she's going away for 30 years (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10049170/).

blee
11-15-2005, 11:57 AM
That's okay. She's so "cool" that she's going away for 30 years (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10049170/).
Can I have the car?

rumatt
11-15-2005, 12:20 PM
Can I have the car?

I think Nick has earned it.

robg
11-21-2005, 10:52 PM
It amazes me that ze Germans would even attempt something like brake by wire. Have they ever developed an electronics or electrical system that didn't require about 3 years of debugging before it was tolerable? THe problem is, this time, the bugs will resutl in serious acccidents. Mercedes may actually be the cooler head here because they already tried it with poor results, and they've already got their tails between their legs from all their quality issues. Nothing will stop BMW, otoh, short of a spectacular lawsuit.

I'm pretty sure the main appeal of these systems to carmakers is cost savings, btw. LEss mechnical links ultimatley lower the assembly and parts cost.

ff
11-21-2005, 11:08 PM
I'm pretty sure the main appeal of these systems to carmakers is cost savings, btw. LEss mechnical links ultimatley lower the assembly and parts cost.


But they'll have to implement other technology to provide pseudo feedback through the brake pedal, so the driver has some sort of clue what's going on at the wheels.

Better off just taking the bus.

clyde
11-21-2005, 11:12 PM
THe problem is, this time, the bugs will resutl in serious acccidents.

Perhaps. But what if it stops many more serious crashes than it causes? Is it still as onerous? Of course it won't stop any lawsuits, just like it didn't with the airbags used 15 years ago. All the people or families that were hurt or killed by them didn't seem to pay much attention to the fact that they would have been hurt much, much worse or just as dead without the airbags.