E90 Waffle

[Optimus Prime]

So the wife and I are thinking about an E90 in the next 9 months or so. I'm still not sold on the styling, but her Mazda 6 isn't wearing well. The quality is detereorating as the miles pile on.

What are the general opinions of the E90 from those who have some seat time? We really liked the E46, but the CA was a dick so we walked.

I think we'd be looking at a 325i with PP, CWP, Adaptive Xenon, and the power rear sunshade. Edmunds says around $36,200.

waffle :dunno:

[Plaz]

I think I'd be more likely to go for a low mileage CPO E46. :dunno:

[Optimus Prime]

I think I'd be more likely to go for a low mileage CPO E46. :dunno:

We were thinking about that. I was wondering how hard it would be to find a leftover 2005...

:dunno:

[rumatt]

I think I'd be more likely to go for a low mileage CPO E46. :dunno:

Why?

[SCA]

I have spent approx. 4 hours of QT in an E90 330i. I like it...more so than my former E46 330Ci. What I do not like is the price. :ack:


Edit: I must have been drunk when I ordered/purchased the E46, it was overpriced too. ;)

[JST]

So the wife and I are thinking about an E90 in the next 9 months or so. I'm still not sold on the styling, but her Mazda 6 isn't wearing well. The quality is detereorating as the miles pile on.

What are the general opinions of the E90 from those who have some seat time? We really liked the E46, but the CA was a dick so we walked.

I think we'd be looking at a 325i with PP, CWP, Adaptive Xenon, and the power rear sunshade. Edmunds says around $36,200.

waffle :dunno:

Haven't driven a 325, but my review of the 330 I drove is posted elsewhere. I thought that with the stock tires, anyway, the ride was substantially less composed than on my E46. The engine is smoother, but the car was no faster, at least subjectively. Rear seat headroom is laughably bad compared to the E46. Trunk space appears to be about the same. The interior is OK, but (IMHO) no nicer than the E46.

I just don't see this car as a step forward, even in the ways that the E46 was an improvement over the E36. The price is also daunting, esp. when you consider the plethora of E46s out there that can be had in the mid-20s.

Personally, I'd buy a used 02 330i SP or a 03 330i ZHP; you'll probably save a big chunk of change over the new 325, and in my opinion you'll end up with a better car.

[Plaz]

Why?

Value.

[FC]

Personally, I'd buy a used 02 330i SP or a 03 330i ZHP; you'll probably save a big chunk of change over the new 325, and in my opinion you'll end up with a better car.

Ditto. '02+ E46 seem to be pretty bullet-proof. My ZHP has been and I am at 29 months and 36K miles of year-round mildly agressive driving.

[SARAFIL]

Talking about E90s, look at who showed up today:

[rumatt]

OMG that ass looks like ass.

[Plaz]

OMG that ass looks like ass.

:lol:

[ZBB]

I've only spent a few minutes in an e90 325i -- my mom got one a month or so ago.

Driving -- feels great. I really like the feel of the 6-speed manual. Nice short throws.

Interior feels small, esp compared to the e46, even from the drivers seat. I think its because the dash is relatively high compared to the e46 and e39 (what I drive now). I felt like I was being pushed up into the dash (almost a clostrophobia feeling). But that started to go away after a few minutes -- so spend some time in it.

FWIW, my wife is thinking of replacing her MINI, and I think she's leaning towards an E90 Touring once they arrive...

[SARAFIL]

OMG that ass looks like ass.

lol



:mad2:

[John V]

Talking about E90s, look at who showed up today:

Man, I'm glad we have the :vomit: emoticon.

[JST]

Man, I'm glad we have the :vomit: emoticon.

Nice avatar. Do you have something to tell us?

[John V]

Nice avatar. Do you have something to tell us?

M3 = sold.

Other than that, nothing to report yet. I'm going to look at another car Sunday night, it might be "the one."

[SCA]

I put some serious miles on a 2006 325i today. Options were; Step, H/S and power seats (which btw, suck!). Overall the car is not bad, minus the Step of course. Seriously, after driving this car I would not waste the money purchasing a 330. I was pretty impressed and the steering really is that much better than the E46. If I was to purchase an E90 it would be spec'ed as follows: SP, Xenons, and maybe metallic paint. The wheels are turning. Give it a few days, I'll cool off. ;)

Edit: BTW, I could not get comfortable in the drivers seat, that is why I stated the power seats suck. I'd get manual seats.

[The HACK]

I put some serious miles on a 2006 325i today. Options were; Step, H/S and power seats (which btw, suck!). Overall the car is not bad, minus the Step of course. Seriously, after driving this car I would not waste the money purchasing a 330. I was pretty impressed and the steering really is that much better than the E46. If I was to purchase an E90 it would be spec'ed as follows: SP, Xenons, and maybe metallic paint. The wheels are turning. Give it a few days, I'll cool off. ;)

Edit: BTW, I could not get comfortable in the drivers seat, that is why I stated the power seats suck. I'd get manual seats.

I wrung out a similarly equipped 325i for almost an hour on Memorial day weekend (actually step, premium, @ss warmers). Bounced that thing off the redline a few times, did U-Turns on streets and tried to break the rear loose.

I'd have to say, the suspension is lightyears ahead of the E46 STOCK suspension. Very forgiving. Can't do anything too stupid in it with the tricky multi-link setup up front, I can't wait 'till a tribe member gets an E90 so I can put it up on a lift and tear it apart. The steering feel seems to be very comparable to E36 M3 steering in terms of sharpness and weight, but there's a slightly larger dead on center. The 325i engine feels like it's right below what an automatic 330i feels like in terms of pull, noticibly lacks torque but that may be due to the fact that I drive the great Ricemus on a daily basis for months on end before I drove the 325i.

It's significantly more isolated, that's for certain. Not a bad thing if you don't like to hear the engine scream...But I think there's engine/exhaust note, and then there's Ricemus engine/exhaust note...When you're on it you can't hear yourself think. There's a thing call "too much" when it comes to noise/harshness/vibration levels. The E46 is already TOO isolated, the E90 took it one step further. Funny thing, the best NHV I've experienced was actually in a Lesucks rIS300.

[The HACK]

OMG that ass looks like ass.

I like big butts and I can not lie, and all the brothers can't deny...

[Jason C]

C&D just tested the 325i:

0-60 in 6.1 sec
0-100 in 16.8 sec
Street start 5-60 in 6.8 sec
1/4 Mile in 14.7Sec@94 MPH
Top speed 147 MPH
Braking, 70-0 in 161 feet
300-ft-dia-Skidpad 0.87g
Averaged fuel economy 25 MPG

They ended up liking it a lot, from what I read. Some nits about ride quality over certain surfaces (IIRC JST had similar observations) but it seems like it's the best deal if you really want a new BMW. Too bad the moonroof is standard, but otherwise you can cut down a lot of potentially problematic areas just by lightly optioning it out (ie, sport pack, and maybe xenons/pdc - and that's it).

It's what I'd go with, if I'm the one spending the money.

[John V]

I'd have to say, the suspension is lightyears ahead of the E46 STOCK suspension. Very forgiving. Can't do anything too stupid in it with the tricky multi-link setup up front,

It's not a multi-link. The front is still a strut. They just created a virtual pivot point by doubling up the ball joints at the hub.

[SCA]

Sarafil, how is the E90?

[SARAFIL]

Sarafil, how is the E90?

Very nice...

I haven't driven it much (too much going on, not much time to go out for a drive), but it's a great car. I really like the color (Graphite), and the power delivery is good for a 325.

I'll post a bit more when I have a chance to put a few more miles on it. Hopefully, I won't get attacked by the E90 haters before that time comes. ;)

[The HACK]

It's not a multi-link. The front is still a strut. They just created a virtual pivot point by doubling up the ball joints at the hub.

Well whatever the hell it is that they did, it worked and worked well.

[lemming]

C&D just tested the 325i:

0-60 in 6.1 sec
0-100 in 16.8 sec
Street start 5-60 in 6.8 sec
1/4 Mile in 14.7Sec@94 MPH
Top speed 147 MPH
Braking, 70-0 in 161 feet
300-ft-dia-Skidpad 0.87g
Averaged fuel economy 25 MPG

They ended up liking it a lot, from what I read. Some nits about ride quality over certain surfaces (IIRC JST had similar observations) but it seems like it's the best deal if you really want a new BMW. Too bad the moonroof is standard, but otherwise you can cut down a lot of potentially problematic areas just by lightly optioning it out (ie, sport pack, and maybe xenons/pdc - and that's it).

It's what I'd go with, if I'm the one spending the money.

but wouldn't it be shameful if a rear wheel drive 3.0litre engine couldn't post numbers like that, especially given that japanese 3.0litre engines already equal those marks?

with some of the talk about pricing sensibility here, i think you wafflers should just wait for the 1 series and revisit the issue. the 1 series should be much better dynamically and cost less, right?

[ff]

with some of the talk about pricing sensibility here, i think you wafflers should just wait for the 1 series and revisit the issue. the 1 series should be much better dynamically and cost less, right?

I would think so. In the back of my mind, I've been thinking of checking them out when they finally do arrive. Smaller, lighter, cheaper, with the same drivetrain. What's not to like?

[John V]

I would think so. In the back of my mind, I've been thinking of checking them out when they finally do arrive. Smaller, lighter, cheaper, with the same drivetrain. What's not to like?

Easy. It's even uglier than the new 3.

[FC]

Easy. It's even uglier than the new 3.

Sad, but true.

[ff]

Easy. It's even uglier than the new 3.

Quite true. But for someone that wants 4 doors, doesn't much like the Japanese offerings, and doesn't want to spend $42K on a car that's worth $35K (the E90), I can see living with the 1 series' body style.

[lemming]

i'm going to keep banging this drum:

3.0 litres from an undersquare engine running 10.7:1 compression.

output?

215hp @ 6250/ 185lb-ft @ 2750.

3285 pounds in the basest of base configurations.

16" wheels are standard and the brakes are 11.8inches all around.

i'm salivating. man, sign me up for this $35,000 piece of technological wonder.

[FC]

i'm going to keep banging this drum:

3.0 litres from an undersquare engine running 10.7:1 compression.

output?

215hp @ 6250/ 185lb-ft @ 2750.

3285 pounds in the basest of base configurations.

16" wheels are standard and the brakes are 11.8inches all around.

i'm salivating. man, sign me up for this $35,000 piece of technological wonder.

I really hope you forgot to add this to your post. :sarcasm:

...considering I paid only $1500 more for my zhp right when it came out. :?

[JST]

i'm going to keep banging this drum:

3.0 litres from an undersquare engine running 10.7:1 compression.

output?

215hp @ 6250/ 185lb-ft @ 2750.

3285 pounds in the basest of base configurations.

16" wheels are standard and the brakes are 11.8inches all around.

i'm salivating. man, sign me up for this $35,000 piece of technological wonder.

The 325 is the new IS300.

[John V]

The 325 is the new IS300.

The E36 engine accomplished much better peak torque and horsepower numbers with lower compression, so what's the deal with the 325's motor? It would be interesting to see the torque curves on that motor. Maybe it's very flat across the band.

BMW's latest offerings are disappointing to an enthusiast to say the least. 95% of buyers will think they're perfect, though.

[lemming]

I really hope you forgot to add this to your post. :sarcasm:

...considering I paid only $1500 more for my zhp right when it came out. :?

the smart ones smelled the sarcasm from a continent away. :D

all three additional points are great ammunition. i configured a 325 the way i would like to have a car and it came out to 38,000, so the money you 'n' JeSTer paid for the ZiHPpier 330s is looking really good, isn't it? the 325 being the new IS300 is funny.

i have no idea about the peak numbers for the N52 engine, i'm sure it has more power under the curve, which is the usual BMW answer. my counterpoint is that ALL engines have that much power under the curve these days in addition to better peak numbers. just compare the "base" N52 to the honda 3.0 litre v6.

[FC]

the smart ones smelled the sarcasm from a continent away. :D

I was a bit slow last night. :rolleyes: Smelling too many wallpaper glue remover fumes I guess. :ack: :D

[SCA]

I configured a 325 the way i would like to have a car and it came out to 38,000, so the money you 'n' JeSTer paid for the ZiHPpier 330s is looking really good, isn't it? the 325 being the new IS300 is funny.

Wow! You must have loaded it up. Could have a base 330 for that. I built a 325...and it was south of $35k. Figure $1000-$1500 over invoice and the CCA rebate and you're close to $31-32k.

[Optimus Prime]

Wow! You must have loaded it up. Could have a base 330 for that. I built a 325...and it was south of $35k. Figure $1000-$1500 over invoice and the CCA rebate and you're close to $31-32k.

Noob Question alert:
How does one get the CCA rebate? I'm not a member, so would I have to be a member for a certain period of time to qaulify?

[rumatt]

Noob Question alert:
How does one get the CCA rebate? I'm not a member, so would I have to be a member for a certain period of time to qaulify?

Used to be 1 year I believe.

[SCA]

Used to be 1 year I believe.

Still is.


More details here:

BMW CCA Membership Rewards Program (http://www.bmwcca.org/members/AM/Template.cfm?Section=Member_Rewards_Program&Template=/BMWCCA/CustomPages/benefitsSection.cfm&action=viewMembershipRewardsProgram)

[JST]

The E36 engine accomplished much better peak torque and horsepower numbers with lower compression, so what's the deal with the 325's motor? It would be interesting to see the torque curves on that motor. Maybe it's very flat across the band.

BMW's latest offerings are disappointing to an enthusiast to say the least. 95% of buyers will think they're perfect, though.

It's all //Marketing. You need to have sufficient separation between the 325 and the 330 to justify charging more for the latter. You can't use the 2.5L engine that you use elsewhere because it won't meet emissions requirements. So you radically and intentionally detune the 3.0 in the 325 so that you have an entry level car that is sufficiently slower than your top-of-the-range model to justify the price delta.

The E90 330 is ridiculously smooth; in comparison, the M54 in my car feels coarse and has really notable humps and dips in the powerband. It pulls effortlessly across the rev range, unlike the M54 (at least with ZHP cams) that is a bit groggy down low and really wakes up in the last 500 RPM before redline. I don't know about the 325; I suspect it would be just as smooth, though the single stage intake probably hurts its flexibility.

I priced out a 325 for giggles; it easily cracks 36K, just with "basic" options. OTOH, the residuals on those cars are so good that the lease prices are very reasonable.

I do feel good about paying E90 325 money for my E46 330, though.

[SCA]

so that you have an entry level car that is sufficiently slower than your top-of-the-range model.


I think that was a little strong. The difference is really not that sufficant. I've spent quality seat time in both. The 330 isn't worth the cash for the additional perfromance it offers over the 325.



$30,900.00 Base 325i
$475.00 Paint
$1,600.00 SP
$800.00 Xenons
$75.00 Sat. Prep
$695.00 Dest.
--------------------
$34,545.00

[JST]

I think that was a little strong. The difference is really not that sufficant. I've spent quality seat time in both. The 330 isn't worth the cash for the additional perfromance it offers over the 325.



$30,900.00 Base 325i
$475.00 Paint
$1,600.00 SP
$800.00 Xenons
$75.00 Sat. Prep
$695.00 Dest.
--------------------
$34,545.00

You're right--I was a bit hasty in my 36K+ figure.

Mine would be $34,670, with CWP, SP and metallic paint. You'd need another 1500 or so for wheels that didn't look like ass and didn't have runflats, and another 200 or so for a jack, lug wrench, and space saver spare (I wonder if the E46 space saver works on the E90?).

[SCA]

You're right--I was a bit hasty in my 36K+ figure.

You'd need another 1500 or so for wheels that didn't look like ass


I agree, the only E90 3-Series wheels I like is the 330 SP wheel. :rolleyes:

[lemming]

I agree, the only E90 3-Series wheels I like is the 330 SP wheel. :rolleyes:

okay, here we go:

destination 695
paint: 495
sport: 1600
CWP: 1000
power fronts: 995
xenon: 800
premium sound: 1200
prep for sat: 75
style 32 wheels: 1420

TOTAL: $40,610.

for the 325 equipped as i would expect to find in ANY car competing in its class or how any of MY cars are equipped.

oh wait....the V and c5z06 were both less than 40,610........and the fx came with all of that for almost $5k less.

wow. what a bargain in terms of equipment and performance. gee, i'd love to commute in a 40,000 car that can barely get out of its own way and couldn't outmerge any v6 powered import FWDer.

that's just my math, though.

[rumatt]

wow. what a bargain in terms of equipment and performance. gee, i'd love to commute in a 40,000 car that can barely get out of its own way and couldn't outmerge any v6 powered import FWDer.

Given that it's about as fast an E46 330, shouldn't I conclude the same thing about my car? :?

[Nick M3]

Given that it's about as fast an E46 330, shouldn't I conclude the same thing about my car? :?
Yes.

[lemming]

Given that it's about as fast an E46 330, shouldn't I conclude the same thing about my car? :?

let's be honest with (most) of ourselves here:

no one really buys a 325 because it is an 'inexpensive' commuter --they buy it because it's a marque that they desire to be associated with so badly that they will overlook the dynamic shortcomings to drive it because there are other dynamic choices out there in any drivetrain configuration that will put a 325 on its head, and the same benchmark also easily keep up with or eclipse the performance of a 330. that's my point.

and it puts it into perspective that the 325 that i would presumably buy is 40k MSRP and from my point of view, for its level of performance and an interior that is seemingly a downgrade from my e36m3 and the e46 that i owned, this is really humorous.

okay. if we're past denial and into acceptance, then sure. whatever floats your boat, but realize that your choice if it MUST be a 325 is purely subjective because the car really doesn't have much objectively on any car in its class.

[killerdeck]

no one really buys a 325 because it is an 'inexpensive' commuter --they buy it because it's a marque that they desire to be associated with so badly that they will overlook the dynamic shortcomings to drive it because there are other dynamic choices out there in any drivetrain configuration that will put a 325 on its head, and the same benchmark also easily keep up with or eclipse the performance of a 330. that's my point.

and it puts it into perspective that the 325 that i would presumably buy is 40k MSRP and from my point of view, for its level of performance and an interior that is seemingly a downgrade from my e36m3 and the e46 that i owned, this is really humorous.

okay. if we're past denial and into acceptance, then sure. whatever floats your boat, but realize that your choice if it MUST be a 325 is purely subjective because the car really doesn't have much objectively on any car in its class.

I dont know. My wife and I are considering purchasing a Euro Delivery E90 325i w/ SP and Xenon only for about $30,000 + tax. If you factor in the case that it has the 4 years free maintenance, good resale, and from what I hear averages about 24 MPG (mixed usage), it seems to be a decent NICE commuter/fun car. I agree that the average person loading it up and buying it here in the states probably will be overpaying and should look elsewhere if they are considering maximizing bang for the $.

[rumatt]

Yes.

:lol:

:twisted: