Topeka Report

[rumatt]

OK, I'll do a topeka brain dump.... Damn, the rest of you people are quiet.

First, the trip was a freaking blast. It was a really, really great experience. Not just the event itself, but hanging out with everyone. My wife and I both had a really fun trip. The WTF'ers (and friends) are seriously OK dudes and dudettes (including the n00b and n00bette :eeps: ).

Congrats to GJ, my codriver for winning D-stock, and to Andy for getting second in STX. Both of your driving was just incredible to watch. Seriously, I was really impressed. Andy, after all your hard work this summer I was so happy for you after your last run on Friday. It was just awesome to witness. You schooled all those subies.

I don't normally enjoy watching autox as a spectator, but at nationals it's pretty damn fun. Watching the last round of drivers cross the line to determine the national champion was really cool.

To my surprise, the ride out and back wasn't that bad at all. We alternated driving every 4-5 hours, stopping only when we needed gas, and once because I had a bladder issue. :rolleyes: The total time from NY was about 17.5 hours both ways. The V1 saved us in a lazer trap once. Sweet. It was also nice averaging almost exactly 30.0 MPG over the entire trip, despite driving in patches of heavy traffic.

But my biggest surprise was my time on course. I have been quite addicted to autox and I expected that this event to spark something even deeper making me a life-long addict. But oddly it was somewhat the opposite... I didn't have a good time at all out on course. As one of my buddies used to say, it was like masturbating with a cheese grater: somewhat pleasurable, but mostly painful.

One conclusion that I came to during the week is that there seem to be three categories of autoxers (and this probably applies to most things in life):

1) those who totally suck
2) those who become "pretty good" through lots of practice. and
3) those who have certain talents and instincts that are not easy to teach or explain to others.

Currently I'm about a 1.5 when it comes to autox, and I know that after a few more years of driving, I could become a solid 2. But the event made it clear that I'm not in the 3rd category. I'm not even talking about the results themselves, but my own thought process while out on course. I was a lost puppy out there.

So I have some soul searching to do before next season. The novelty of autox has worn off ("ohhh, my tires are screeching!' :yawn: ), and so has the novelty of winning at small, local events and impressing the noobs (no, this time I don't mean you Andy). The main dilema is whether the time, money, and energy required to move from a "1.5" to a "2" is worth the reward and the journey along the way. There are other hobbies that cost less money, help improve your physical condition, and are more enjoyable to certain family other members. I'm not making any hasty decisions, so we will have to see.

Now, most importantly. Which one of you would like to purchase a D-stock national champion BMW? The bidding starts at $75K. :lol: :reddevil:

[bren]

Not sure where I fit on the 1/2/3 scale but I had a great time and definitely plan on going back.

....if only I could have found my 3 seconds.

[John V]

I felt like a 2.5 on Thursday but was closer to a 1.5 on Friday. I used to feel like I was a 3 with my BMW. Don't think I was, but it felt like it.

I had a blast hanging out with everyone though, and I definitely learned some new things on course and off. The main thing I learned was not to get inside my own head. The difference between my driving Thursday and friday was on Thursday every run I tried for the win. On friday I tried to make a "clean run" on my second one, and that was a big mistake. Always go for the win. There is no glory in 11th place ;)

I've got to do some serious soul searching in the off season. I'm torn as to what car to drive next and how much money I feel I can spend. I do know that I'm more hooked than ever and I'm not quitting until I win. :mad2:

We averaged something around 21.5-22MPG on the trip back. It took us about 17 hours. :ack:

[rumatt]

Not sure where I fit on the 1/2/3 scale

I'm feeling generous, so I'll throw you a 1.1.

:p

I'm up for selling the rain tires. You? Know of any buyers? I'm thinking $650, but we'd need to get them unmounted.

[rumatt]

Oh, one more thing I forgot to mention. On the way home, a certain someone ran over some tire debris in the road. It slapped the front bumper and thumped all the way down.

Now BOTH of my front fog light covers are missing. Arg! Good thing I hadn't bothered to paint the other one yet.

[Andy]

Matt, I thought you drove just fine for your first Nationals. There is a lot of stress and pressure running that event and with this sport being as mental as it is, it can easily effect how you drive (not to mention weather played a MAJOR factor this year in all the results). You may also be experiencing a bit of a “being burnt out” feeling. I’ve gone through that a couple times too. Sometimes it’s good to take a break, reevaluate your goals, set some new ones and go back at it… but most importantly, make sure you’re having fun in the process.

Honestly, I’m kind’a glad the season has come to an end. After running the Regional series, the Divisional series, the east cost National Tour and ProSolo series… I am worn out… I honestly started getting burnt out half way through the season. That is waaaay to many races in one season. One thing is for sure, next year, I definitely won’t try and run every freak’n series. That’s just plain nuts!!

Now, I get to relax and figure out what I want to do next year. So it sounds like I’m in the same boat as the rest of you guys.

Don’t give up on autox quite yet… give it sometime and then decide.

[rumatt]

So it sounds like I’m in the same boat as the rest of you guys.

Your car is an STX over-dog baby! Don't you even thing of letting go of that sucker. :D :stickpoke:


And yeah, I'm not making any hasty decisions. I was just really surprised at how the event had a totally opposite effect on me than I was expecting. I did have a fun trip though.

[Elwood]

So!?! How'd you do?

Glad you had a good trip and damn GJ is friken fast! I don't feel bad that he beat me by 3seconds.

I know what you mean about thrill of autox. I was never 100% gungho but after hitting the track it took a sharp nose dive. It's a hobby, not a passion.

btw, I'll give you $75.00 for the car.

[rumatt]

So!?! How'd you do?

http://www.scca.org/Event/Result.asp?Ref2=87

btw, I'll give you $75.00 for the car.

Deal! :lol:

[clyde]

It's a hobby, not a passion.

It's an addiction. And that sucking sound is the sound of dollars being pulled from my wallet. I hear that track days make the sucking sound louder. I can't have a louder sucking sound, VFAD not withstanding. :eeps:

[elbert]

It's an addiction. And that sucking sound is the sound of dollars being pulled from my wallet. I hear that track days make the sucking sound louder.

I don't know about that.
$30/autox, 5 runs for 45 seconds each, $8/min
$300/hpde, 8 runs for 20 minutes each, $1.88/min.

Plus you don't corner work and you do get (admittedly not always useful) classroom instruction.

Consumables, car tech inspection, gas, and hotel weren't included in the calculation, but I'm pretty sure an hpde will still come out ahead.

[clyde]

I don't know about that.
$30/autox, 5 runs for 45 seconds each, $8/min
$300/hpde, 8 runs for 20 minutes each, $1.88/min.

Plus you don't corner work and you do get (admittedly not always useful) classroom instruction.

Consumables, car tech inspection, gas, and hotel weren't included in the calculation, but I'm pretty sure an hpde will still come out ahead.
For a one off event, maybe. With a schedule similar to that of an autocrosser, it's not even close. Then add in the added risk of balling up the car or injuring yourself at the track compared to the parking lot/tarmac and subtract the actual competition of track days (unless you're actually going w2w racing, in which case, discussing cost comparisons is pointless)... Different strokes for different folks. For a similar number of weekends per year, autocrossing is going to be a lot cheaper, be a lot less time consuming (especially when factoring in time for maintenance when staying home on a given weekend), etc...

The dollar/minute ratio is one of those sets of numbers that means very little... Let me show you what I mean: In the example of your autocross, you're probably looking at about 27 turns per autocross run, multiplied by 5 runs, we get 5*27=135 turns for $30, or about 4.5 turns per dollar. What's an average number of turns per track? 12? Average lap time of 2:00 or about 10 laps per run? So 80 laps of 12 turns makes for 960 turns. At a cost of $300, you're only getting 3.2 turns per dollar. Which looks more cost effective now?

I don't know...I don't think it's worth arguing this for the thirty-seven thousandth time this year. The point I was trying to make was that if I was doing half as many track days as I do autocrosses, it would hit me in the wallet 3-5 times as hard as the autocrossing...and that includes my autocross travel budget this past year, which wasn't small. Regardless of which might provide the better value for the dollar, going to the track would cost me considerably more dollars....hence the sucking sound.

[elbert]

Regardless of which might provide the better value for the dollar, going to the track would cost me considerably more dollars....hence the sucking sound.

What I hear at an autox is a watch ticking -- because the time I'm wasting doing nothing, just to spend less than 4 minutes driving around cones.

As you say, different strokes different folks.

[clyde]

What I hear at an autox is a watch ticking -- because the time I'm wasting doing nothing

:toetap:
:toetap:
:toetap:
:confused:

I don't know...After spending 7 and a half days in Topeka with less than 11 minutes spent driving, I didn't once feel like I was doing nothing or wasting time. I had a blast walking, talking, eating, drinking, breathing, watching, touching, smelling, hearing, tasting, and yes, even driving cars all week. Seeing friends, meeting new people, hanging out and learning lots of new, if useless, shit isn't so bad either.

I guess it depends on the attitude you bring to the party. :eeps:

[rumatt]

touching

I personally could have gone without the touching.

[elbert]

:toetap:
:toetap:
:toetap:
:confused:

I don't know...After spending 7 and a half days in Topeka with less than 11 minutes spent driving, I didn't once feel like I was doing nothing or wasting time. I had a blast walking, talking, eating, drinking, breathing, watching, touching, smelling, hearing, tasting, and yes, even driving cars all week. Seeing friends, meeting new people, hanging out and learning lots of new, if useless, shit isn't so bad either.

I guess it depends on the attitude you bring to the party. :eeps:

You forgot "farting" and "butt scratching" on that list. ;)

I don't need to go to an autox to do all those things (including the ones you forgot :kekeke: ), so if I'm there I'd rather be active (driving) and not goofing off :dunno:

[John V]

LOL.

How many times does this moronic argument need to be presented per year?

If you need to justify your love for track days by saying they're a "better value" than autocrossing and that works for you, go right ahead.

There are people who like driving fast, and there are people that like competition. To me, driving fast without competition is boring and pointless. To you, spending a couple thousand dollars to set up a car for an absurdly restrictive ruleset so you can pay $35 to drive for four minutes and win a cheap wood plaque is boring and pointless.

Agreed? Agreed. Moving on... :rolleyes:

[ff]

I personally could have gone without the touching.


:lol:

Silly clyde...

[rumatt]

How many times does this moronic argument need to be presented per year?

To be fair, it start out with clyde claimining track days are more expensive, and escalated.

But once it got into which is more fun...

:beatdeadh

[clyde]

To be fair, it start out with clyde claimining track days are more expensive, and escalated.


I made a comment that suggested doing track days would cost more money (sucking sound, wallet, etc). There was a response that which boiled down to suggesting $300 < $35. And it went from there...

[Nick M3]

I made a comment that suggested doing track days would cost more money (sucking sound, wallet, etc). There was a response that which boiled down to suggesting $300 < $35. And it went from there...
The problem with track days is that they transition into racing. Excluding event fees, and all that other crap, I fully expect the 323 will be a more expensive car than the M3 by the time I'm done with it.

But, uh, while autox is fun...

[John V]

The problem with track days is that they transition into racing. Excluding event fees, and all that other crap, I fully expect the 323 will be a more expensive car than the M3 by the time I'm done with it.

But, uh, while autox is fun...

...club racing is funner? Maybe, but also way more expensive.

[rumatt]

Maybe

Maybe? :loco:

[John V]

I haven't tried it, so... :dunno.

I've spent lots of hours on the track, which I thought was about the most boring motorsport type thing I could imagine.

I do really enjoy AllSports (indoor karting), which is closer to club racing than autocrossing is.

[bren]

I do really enjoy AllSports (indoor karting), which is closer to club racing than autocrossing is.
Did you guys see the outdoor cart track just off the highway near Indianapolis? There were lots of campers and whatnot...must have been a race day. I was tempted to pull over and watch.

[rumatt]

Did you guys see the outdoor cart track just off the highway near Indianapolis? There were lots of campers and whatnot...must have been a race day. I was tempted to pull over and watch.

Yep. Saw that.

I was tempted to pull over and drive.

[clyde]

:rasieshand:

[John V]

We saw it. I was tempted to pull over but I wanted to get to McDonald's so we could wait for rush hour traffic in Wheeling to subside.

[Rob]

From now on, I am now going to put the track/autocross argument posts in the same category as "why did my car beep at me this morning" posts. Painful, and to be avoided at all costs.

[rumatt]

From now on, I am now going to put the track/autocross argument posts in the same category as "why did my car beep at me this morning" posts. Painful, and to be avoided at all costs.

I know, it's ridiculous. How can anyone claim track is more fun than autox? :mad2:

Looks like we scared Elbert away too. Then again, he's probably just busy managing his KFC resturant.

[elbert]

Looks like we scared Elbert away too. Then again, he's probably just busy managing his KFC resturant.

:lol:

Anyway, sorry to have stirred up the debate again. But Clyde, if you didn't need to always get the last word, it would have easily ended with my first post :dunno:

Indoor karting is a lot of fun. But if you're heavy, you're at a serious disadvantage.

[clyde]

But Clyde, if you didn't need to always get the last word, it would have easily ended with my first post :dunno:

Not to drag it out any further, I will simply state that I disagree with that and will refrain from continuing this part of the discussion.

[Nick M3]

Were you doing all of your tracking with the RX-7 TT, John? One thing I've found is that I have a hell of a lot more fun in the 323 because I get to play with other guys. The M3 was frustrating out on track simply because it was VERY rare that I got to play with anyone.

Of course, I'd imagine that it helps that I'm heading towards serious racing.

[elbert]

The M3 was frustrating out on track simply because it was VERY rare that I got to play with anyone.

That's kinda why I like leaving my car stock, with street tires.

Another reason is if I'm passing cars, I can credit my driving. If I'm being passed by a modified car, I just blame my tires or suspension ;)
I don't get passed by stock cars so that's a non-issue. :speechle:

[rumatt]

The M3 was frustrating out on track simply because it was VERY rare that I got to play with anyone.

Once they let you out of the novice group, there should be a number of folks who can keep up with your M3. :twisted:

[Nick M3]

That's kinda why I like leaving my car stock, with street tires.

Another reason is if I'm passing cars, I can credit my driving. If I'm being passed by a modified car, I just blame my tires or suspension ;)
I don't get passed by stock cars so that's a non-issue. :speechle:
Yeah, except that telepathic response really adds to the fun. You know this, you've driven Andy's car.

The fun bit with the 323 is that I get to go hunting. The M3 was either way too fast, or way too slow, I found.

[Nick M3]

Once they let you out of the novice group, there should be a number of folks who can keep up with your M3. :twisted:
The problem is that they tend to be Corvettes with at least as much grip and 200+ more hp. The other problem is that the egos of the folks you're more likely to dice with in an M3 are MUCH bigger. I have a much easier time getting point bys in the 323 than in the M3, funnily enough.

[John V]

Were you doing all of your tracking with the RX-7 TT, John? One thing I've found is that I have a hell of a lot more fun in the 323 because I get to play with other guys. The M3 was frustrating out on track simply because it was VERY rare that I got to play with anyone.

Of course, I'd imagine that it helps that I'm heading towards serious racing.

My RX-7 was a single turbo 2nd gen on street tires at the time. It had way more power (~ 300RWHP) than it had grip.

I really meant to track the M3 this summer, but I never got around to it.

[rumatt]

I'd like to point out that I would have snagged the last trophy spot in D-stock ladies, thank you very much.

Next year I'm dressing up like a woman. Now that I think about it, I already have a bra and skirt that fit me quite nicely. :speechle:

[John V]

Now that I think about it, I already have a bra and skirt that fit me quite nicely. :speechle:

(uncomfortable silence)

Ohhhhh kaaaayyyy... So how about that Tribe?

[clyde]

I'd like to point out that I would have snagged the last trophy spot in D-stock ladies, thank you very much.

And still been 935th of 1089.

[Andy]

Now that I think about it, I already have a bra and skirt that fit me quite nicely. :speechle:

(uncomfortable silence)

Ohhhhh kaaaayyyy... So how about that Tribe?

:lol:

[rumatt]

(uncomfortable silence)

Ohhhhh kaaaayyyy... So how about that Tribe?

:lol: