Acura Developing a Successor to NSX [Archive]

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Jason C

07-12-2005, 02:22 AM

So people said in the caveman thread that they wanted a new NSX?

Current Generation NSX Production to Halt at Year End

TORRANCE, Calif. 07/11/2005 -- To further enhance the division's performance image, Acura is developing a new sports car to succeed the award-winning NSX supercar. Acura also announced that production of the current generation NSX will cease at the end of the year due to the extensive retooling necessary to meet stringent 2006 emissions and equipment regulations for the U.S., Europe and Asia.

"We are committed to having an ultra high-performance vehicle in the Acura lineup in the future," said John Mendel, senior vice president, automobile operations. "It's too early to comment on specifics, but the all-new model will be just as groundbreaking as the 1991 NSX."

As the first-ever supercar from Japan, the NSX was created as a hand-built, exotic, mid-engine sports car that would establish entirely new levels of performance, refinement and drivability. The NSX went on sale in the summer of 1990 and the following year posted record U.S. sales of 1,940 vehicles. Through June of 2005, NSX cumulative sales totaled 8,854 in the U.S. and more than 18,000 worldwide.

During its 15-year run, the NSX has been showered with accolades including, Automobile Magazine's "Automobile of the Year and Design of the Year" awards, Popular Science's "Best of What's New," Road &Track's "Ten Best Cars in the World" list. Motor Trend magazine also named the NSX to its "Top Ten Performance Cars" list and touted it as "the best sports car ever built."

Acura designed the NSX as a technological and performance showcase. Among other innovations, it was the first production car to feature an all-aluminum body, chassis, and suspension and to utilize titanium connecting rods. It featured a transversely mounted dual overhead cam V-6 engine equipped with Acura's breakthrough VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control) system and a variable volume induction system.

Over time, the NSX received continuous updates to ensure its competitiveness and popularity with serious sports car enthusiasts. The NSX has also captured multiple championships in the highest levels of sports car and prototype racing.

God damn, I thought they'd never do it.

It had better not be $90k+ and slower than a base C6 around a track. Please. I know numbers aren't everything, but this time, not so fucking expensive. Pretty please?

Oh, and "groundbreaking" had better not mean a hybrid NSX. :rolleyes:

Plaz

07-12-2005, 06:59 AM

Nice.

07-12-2005, 07:58 AM

If it will have Acura's trademark reliability and driveability, all I want is for it to have a motor with decent torque (preferably a small V8 to a large V6), and a lb/hp of under 10. Keep the weight and most importantly the price low, and don't make it look like a cartoon, and it will do very well.

It will probably be way too expensive for me to consider though.

rumatt

07-12-2005, 08:25 AM

Oh, and "groundbreaking" had better not mean a hybrid NSX. :rolleyes:

:lol:

Nor an SUV either please.

clyde

07-12-2005, 08:28 AM

Jason C

07-12-2005, 08:43 AM

Oh, and "groundbreaking" had better not mean a hybrid NSX. :rolleyes:

Why? Please don't tell me that you are picking up where Hack left off. :flipoff:

If a hybrid makes more power, the car performs better and is more fuel efficient, then what's the objection? I'm sitting here thinking that the two big penalties for a hybrid would be increased weight and external dimensions, but if they can find a way to overcome those issues...

Hardly pulling a Hack, I think there are some legitimate problems involved with a *hybrid* sports car that's not based on bench racing or technological chauvinism. Let's ignore long-term issues with warranties and service and cost of replacement batteries and where to dispose said batteries and long-term environmental consequences of such, there are a few other sites that cover it ad nauseum. I thought of at least one problem right when someone on TOV speculated the NSX might be just that-

Would you like that hybrid assist to wear off during a lapping session, because you've used it all up on the straight and the braking isn't long enough to regenerate the batteries? How about on your favorite long serpentine stretch of pavement? Did you read about what happened when Toyota tried to experiment with a Prius endurance racer? Maybe for this car's *real* intended audience (to paraphrase jester) that will only use it on sunny days to pose in front of the club, cruise down the boulevard and open it up for a crack down the highway, there won't be any issues with battery drain. I sure as hell wouldn't buy a purported sports car that was a hybrid, at least not at this stage. Perhaps I'd consider a hybrid for a beater sedan/minivan/etc, that was made for tackling stop and go and interstate boredom. But a sports car?

There's that weight issue which you mentioned, but I have a feeling there's a bunch more issues than that which I've completely forgotten at this hour. Suffice to say, this isn't a Hack where OHV have been time and race-tested but somehow worse because it's simpler. I don't know how you made that inference, because it seems to me that this is a lot different - there's a lot of things about hybrids that have yet to be proven.

(And yeah - I like production sport cars based *somewhat* on endurance racing, ie GT3, Z06, etc... so I may be biased there)

Jason C

07-12-2005, 09:04 AM

Actually, I'll save some trouble and post it now:

"Toyota Prius Race Car" (C&D April 2004)

So the top brass in Toyota City bit the bullet and built three Prius race cars. Japan's No. 1 automaker managed to produce these race-spec models in the space of just two months with the help of Toyota Racing Development, which runs all the company's Japanese race cars.

And the surprising thing is the Prius handles superbly on the track. Don't expect the batteries and the electric motor to last more than one lap, though. With the accelerator floored constantly, the battery soon runs out of puff, leaving the car to run on its 1.5-liter four-cylinder engine.

07-12-2005, 09:23 AM

What's the source of the NS-X article? There isn't any real info there to even hint at what we can expect from the next generation car. Usually we get some tidbit of info.

Jason C

07-12-2005, 09:26 AM

What's the source of the NS-X article? There isn't any real info there to even hint at what we can expect from the next generation car. Usually we get some tidbit of info.

It doesn't get much more legit than a press release on Honda's official site:

http://world.honda.com/news/2005/4050712.html

clyde

07-12-2005, 09:32 AM

Hardly pulling a Hack, I think there are some legitimate problems involved with a *hybrid* sports car that's not based on bench racing or technological chauvinism. Let's ignore long-term issues with warranties and service and cost of replacement batteries and where to dispose said batteries and long-term environmental consequences of such, there are a few other sites that cover it ad nauseum. I thought of at least one problem right when someone on TOV speculated the NSX might be just that-

Would you like that hybrid assist to wear off during a lapping session, because you've used it all up on the straight and the braking isn't long enough to regenerate the batteries? How about on your favorite long serpentine stretch of pavement? Did you read about what happened when Toyota tried to experiment with a Prius endurance racer? Maybe for this car's *real* intended audience (to paraphrase jester) that will only use it on sunny days to pose in front of the club, cruise down the boulevard and open it up for a crack down the highway, there won't be any issues with battery drain. I sure as hell wouldn't buy a purported sports car that was a hybrid, at least not at this stage. Perhaps I'd consider a hybrid for a beater sedan/minivan/etc, that was made for tackling stop and go and interstate boredom. But a sports car?

There's that weight issue which you mentioned, but I have a feeling there's a bunch more issues than that which I've completely forgotten at this hour. Suffice to say, this isn't a Hack where OHV have been time and race-tested but somehow worse because it's simpler. I don't know how you made that inference, because it seems to me that this is a lot different - there's a lot of things about hybrids that have yet to be proven.

(And yeah - I like production sport cars based *somewhat* on endurance racing, ie GT3, Z06, etc... so I may be biased there)

IIRC, the Accord hybrid gets most of its extra power output from the electric motor at the low end. If that's the case, it shouldn't be overused/exhausted in a lapping session where revs will tend to be on the higher side of the gas engine's range. The electric "boost" serves two functions: 1) to make more power (torque) in a certain range and 2) to increase fuel efficiency under certain conditions (daily driving chores in traffic, etc). That's quite a different use of hybrid power than in the Prius.

If that recollection is inaccurate (and it may well be), a hybrid could certainly be set up in that fashion. The user gets more power pulling away from the valet stand and when lugging the engine between traffic lights. Either way, the application is everything.

Still, even if it did run out of extra "boost", how would it be different than a "sports car" running out of brakes during a lapping session because the OE stuff isn't up to the task? Before you say that there are aftermarket solutions to that braking issue, think about how many stories you have heard from people that still ran out of brakes on their sports cars when using aftermarket solutions (pads, rotors, fluid, lines, whatever). More importantly, though, think about the fact that the manufacturers are selling street cars, not track cars...certainly not race cars. How a car does on a track is up to the owners, not the manufacturers.

There are a lot of negatives that go along with electric power that are glossed over by the media and green advocates, I agree, but the public perception is that it's better than fossil fuel usage when it comes to personal transportation. It would behoove any car maker to make the most of that perception if possible. Honda has always prided itself on being out in front on enviornmental and technology issues, at least ones that play to public perceptions. Acura is their American jewel and the NSX is Honda's global halo car. It's inconceivable to me that they could redo the NSX in this day and age without making a tremendous effort to incorporate hybrid technology. If it doesn't make it in, I would 1) be surprised and 2) seriously wonder about the future potential of hybrids. After all, if Honda can't do it, who will tread where they failed?

Re: the comparison to Hack/OHV/OHC, your comment ""groundbreaking" had better not mean a hybrid NSX" sounded to me a lot like his blind allegience to OHC and his arguments that everyone else here has a blind allegience to OHV. It said to me that it shouldn't use it...just because. There are objective obstacles to hybrid technology in performance applications, such as weight, but they are known quantites that can be addressed without ditching the system entirely. Reliability may be an issue...I've heard nothing about hybrid failures in the cars that already use such systems, though (and I would guess that failures would get a lot of regular media attention). In a perofrmance application? They won't have the opportunity to be tested until they are used in production vehicles. When it comes to racing, there other issues that may stall development that don't apply to the street. How many series are out there that would even allow a hybrid system? Honda producing a hybrid NSX could allow them to run a spec NSX series that would allow them to further develop and refine a true perforance hybrid system as well as provide a great marketing tool...one that could be as good or better for them than when the C4 Corvettes were originally kicked out of the SCCA Escort Endurance Championship after winning EVERY race in the series from 1985-1987. The Corvette Challenge was born and Chevy/GM used it to great effect over the next few years.

Are you suggesting that they shouldn't do it because it hasn't been done?

Jason C

07-12-2005, 09:43 AM

Still, even if it did run out of extra "boost", how would it be different than a "sports car" running out of brakes during a lapping session because the OE stuff isn't up to the task?

Haha, I was going to add something to my original response regarding that. It seems that some people here are so critical of BMWs brakes going to shit on long track days, so running out of extra torque so quickly should piss off everyone here that likes torque (and it seems like a lot, at last count).

Are you suggesting that they shouldn't do it because it hasn't been done?

Nope. I'm suggesting that the technology is too close to its infancy (and resulting capacity issues under heavy/max load) to debut on such a halo car that presumably will be first and foremost about sport, with racing implied - maybe.

But hey, if they do it and solve/largely mitigate all the problems in one fell swoop, I'll be the first one to congratulate them on risking so much and tackling such a huge challenge. But considering the relative *new-ness* of this technology, I really don't envision that happening so quickly. Hence my wording in the OP.

John V

07-12-2005, 09:48 AM

If they can make a hybrid drivetrain with absolutely no weight penalty, then fine.

I don't see how that will ever be possible, since you're only ADDING parts to make a car a hybrid, and they're heavy parts (batteries and electric motor(s)).

Simplicity is good all by itself.

Jason C

07-12-2005, 09:57 AM

How a car does on a track is up to the owners, not the manufacturers.

BTW, considering how much track-testing the original NS-X prototype got (with a lot at the hands of the late Ayrton Senna, supposedly), I think it would be more sad if Honda took this line of thinking as a guideline for their next NSX, as opposed to Honda not trying to debute an IMA-NSX yet.

clyde

07-12-2005, 10:17 AM

But hey, if they do it and solve/largely mitigate all the problems in one fell swoop, I'll be the first one to congratulate them on risking so much and tackling such a huge challenge. But considering the relative *new-ness* of this technology, I really don't envision that happening so quickly. Hence my wording in the OP.

Which comes back to it being done by Honda. My gut and history tell me that if they can make it work, it will be in the production version. If they can't it won't be there, but they will damn near kill themselves trying to get it to work before they give up.

And that was my point.

Jason C

07-21-2005, 12:10 PM

07-21-2005, 01:51 PM

"< NSX successor >
We are now focused on the development of a new model to succeed the NSX for a new era. We would like to debut a new super sports car equipped with a V10 engine in 3 to 4 years. Please look forward to seeing the NSX successor."

This from Takeo Fukui (the Honda CEO). :eeps:

While very cool, it is inconsequential to me now since I'm sure it is bound to be near or over $100K. :rolleyes: :cry:

Jason C

07-21-2005, 04:25 PM