View Full Version : Next X5 spy pic
lip277
07-07-2005, 12:24 AM
:thumbdow:
:banghead:
:slap:
:outtaher:
:vomit:
:loco:
:speechle:
:scratch:
You get the idea.
:)
:thumbdow:
:banghead:
:slap:
:outtaher:
:vomit:
:loco:
:speechle:
:scratch:
You get the idea.
:)
yep... that's just ugleeeeee
John V
07-07-2005, 07:05 AM
Wow. BMW has done it again - taken an OK looking car and made it into something terrible.
It's just too bad they decided to make the X5 look like the X3 rather than the other way around :rolleyes:
What can I say, that hasn't already been said.
...and ANOTHER suv? Please....
kognito
07-07-2005, 09:08 AM
Not sure which picture is worse, V5 or X5 guess the 2 door version is going to look like shit too
Well, the X5 to me WAS the best-looking SUV. Too bad they never gave it decent cargo room.
The new one is so ugly it doesn't matter anymore.
It looks like an ML320CDI with the off-road pkg for us in the future then (or an E320CDI 4-Matic wagon if they ever offer one and doesn't cost a fortune).
Obviously BMW has decided to keep with their current theme...UGLY ASS automobiles for the masses.
I can't even raise an emotion one way or the other about that picture. I have so little interest in a vehicle like that, that I seem to just not care.
I think it looks a lot like a Pacifica though. I guess that means not good.
I'm more interested in the BMW "minivan," esp. if the Benz product is any indication. Not that they will be affordable in the least, but still.
dadtorbn
07-07-2005, 12:43 PM
It looks like a Pacifica. :oops:
Oh yeah - $45k to $55k for their new people hauler . . . when you can get a fully loaded Siena with all of the features well thought out and engineered in the third version or whatever with every option including nav and back seat dvd systems for $38k sticker and $32k out the door? That's quite a hefty badge snob fee. The Honda mini-van is competitive with the Siena (although maybe not discounted yet).
Well, I suppose it's competitive with the SRX. Maybe I just don't understand that market.
Oh yeah - $45k to $55k for their new people hauler . . . when you can get a fully loaded Siena with all of the features well thought out and engineered in the third version or whatever with every option including nav and back seat dvd systems for $38k sticker and $32k out the door? That's quite a hefty badge snob fee. The Honda mini-van is competitive with the Siena (although maybe not discounted yet).
Well, I suppose it's competitive with the SRX. Maybe I just don't understand that market.
We all remember the GRM article from the recent past that put a vanilla Odyssey against two classis sports cars. The autocross competition was a wash...in favor of the Honda. If BMW can deliver a nicely sized people mover that has BMW-like handling and power, then it's a winner in my book. Whether I'll ever be able to justify the price tag is another matter, but I don't think that car is aimed at me.
SARAFIL
07-07-2005, 01:16 PM
MY 2007
What a terrible X3-based p'chop.
Is the X5 "Wildly successful" as the article suggests?
Is the X5 "Wildly successful" as the article suggests?
Actually yes.
Is the X5 "Wildly successful" as the article suggests?
Actually yes.
Yes, and for good reason. Anyone who has driven one will likely acknowledge that it handles phenomenally for what it is.
John V
07-07-2005, 02:18 PM
Is the X5 "Wildly successful" as the article suggests?
Actually yes.
Yes, and for good reason. Anyone who has driven one will likely acknowledge that it handles phenomenally for what it is.
What the X5 is is a people / stuff hauler. A 540i will outhandle an X5 handily.
A 540i will outhandle an X5 handily.
Not in 8" of snow :twisted:
John V
07-07-2005, 02:48 PM
A 540i will outhandle an X5 handily.
Not in 8" of snow :twisted:
Who buys a vehicle for conditions that occur during 1% of the time they drive?
Oh wait, lots of Americans do.
I've had no problems getting around in an E36 with all-seasons and no traction control. Growing up in wisconsin, I had no problems getting around in an RX-7 with a set of decent snow tires.
I've had no problems getting around in an E36 with all-seasons and no traction control.
All-seasons...good advice. E36 M3 with Pilot Sports = fun, but not the kind you want to have on the way to your carpool buddy.
A 540i will outhandle an X5 handily.
Not in 8" of snow :twisted:
Who buys a vehicle for conditions that occur during 1% of the time they drive?
Oh wait, lots of Americans do.
What's wrong with being prepared? :P
Fact is most people don't want/need/care about handling.
I'd imagine the X5 also has a higher towing capacity although I'm not sure.
What the X5 is is a people / stuff hauler.
Not in my book. Unless you consider the Chrysler 300 and Avalon people/stuff haulers as well.
What the X5 is is a people / stuff hauler.
Not in my book. Unless you consider the Chrysler 300 and Avalon people/stuff haulers as well.
Sure. Except the X5 has a tow rating and the rear hatch opens in a manner more convenient for certain things. We know that the 540i wagon has more space inside, but that's not really the point.
What the X5 is is a people / stuff hauler.
Not in my book. Unless you consider the Chrysler 300 and Avalon people/stuff haulers as well.
Sure. Except the X5 has a tow rating and the rear hatch opens in a manner more convenient for certain things. We know that the 540i wagon has more space inside, but that's not really the point.
Ground clearance can be a factor around here too.
John V
07-07-2005, 03:19 PM
What the X5 is is a people / stuff hauler.
Not in my book. Unless you consider the Chrysler 300 and Avalon people/stuff haulers as well.
If they're not people / stuff haulers to you then what are they?
If they're not people / stuff haulers to you then what are they?
Status symbols for the well-to-do yuppies, that are too snobby to drive any one of the other 723 SUV choices out there. They're not particularily roomy inside, they aren't designed to go off-road or to tow anything significant. The only advantage the X5 has over a similarly-sized car, is some ground clearance for driving through deep snow. Beyond that, I'm at a loss for words.
John V
07-07-2005, 03:40 PM
If they're not people / stuff haulers to you then what are they?
Status symbols for the well-to-do yuppies, that are too snobby to drive any one of the other 723 SUV choices out there. They're not particularily roomy inside, they aren't designed to go off-road or to tow anything significant. The only advantage the X5 has over a similarly-sized car, is some ground clearance for driving through deep snow. Beyond that, I'm at a loss for words.
Hm. Can't argue with you there.
I'd take a BMW minivan over a BMW SAV (Silly Ass Vehicle) any day. Lower center of gravity, more practical use of space and less lemming-like to boot.
lip277
07-07-2005, 05:09 PM
I see we're again deciding what other people should drive.
Everyone here only needs a Yugo. Anything else is just not needed.
:)
:outtaher:
I see we're again deciding what other people should drive.
Everyone here only needs a Yugo. Anything else is just not needed.
:)
:outtaher:
I don't think they make Yugos anymore
I don't think they make Yugos anymore
Which is really a shame, because all I can really afford on a vehicle these days is $3990.
:P
The HACK
07-07-2005, 06:36 PM
MY 2007
What a terrible X3-based p'chop.
Looks good Sarafil. When can I put down a deposit?
This reminds me of that shot of the Acura RSX that's been circulated around as the next gen 3 series coupe. The PhotoHACK quality is about on par.
The V5 rendering looks acceptible. If and when there's little HACKs running around, and if I accidentally got my ballz caught in a meat grinder, I may consider one. :rolleyes:
Mathew
07-07-2005, 07:49 PM
Wow those are both pretty bad.
Wonder what that Audi Q7 that they mentioned is going to look like. :speechle:
lip277
07-07-2005, 08:00 PM
I see we're again deciding what other people should drive.
Everyone here only needs a Yugo. Anything else is just not needed.
:)
:outtaher:
I don't think they make Yugos anymore
Exactly.
New cars are dumb.
:flipoff:
:lol:
if I accidentally got my ballz caught in a meat grinder, I may consider one. :rolleyes:
I thought you got married awhile ago. :lol:
ARCHER
07-07-2005, 09:03 PM
What the X5 is is a people / stuff hauler.
Not in my book. Unless you consider the Chrysler 300 and Avalon people/stuff haulers as well.
Exactly. Unless one folds the X5 rear seats forward it has precious little, if any more cargo room than our 330i did - or my E36 for that matter. So the people/cargo hauler argument is pretty leaky. If it was actually capable off-road, I MIGHT be remotely attracted. As it sits, all I can say about the X5 is... why?
And the new one looks like ass. At least the former was a looker. Now it's pointless AND ugly.
SARAFIL
07-07-2005, 09:09 PM
Is the X5 "Wildly successful" as the article suggests?
Very well. If BMW wanted to totally trim down their model offerings, I'd be very happy with a model line consisting of 325i, 325xi and X5 models. That's where the huge majority of our new and pre-owned sales are.
SARAFIL
07-07-2005, 09:12 PM
Wow those are both pretty bad.
Wonder what that Audi Q7 that they mentioned is going to look like. :speechle:
There are pics of the Q7 floating around various Audi sites. It looks like shit. Almost like a cross between a Touareg and an Infiniti FX-- it has the negative qualities of both.
SARAFIL
07-07-2005, 09:19 PM
I'd take a BMW minivan over a BMW SAV (Silly Ass Vehicle) any day. Lower center of gravity, more practical use of space and less lemming-like to boot.
I'm obviously BMW-biased for a good (and obvious) reason, but that gives me no reason to be biased towards any particular car. I'm quite honest when I say that the X5 is one of my favorite BMWs. I really like the way they drive. I like sitting up high. And, even though the actual volume of the cargo area might not be as big on paper, it's pretty handy for carrying alot of stuff that I've had to haul around. And, if I wanted to, I could tow a pretty respectable load behind the vehicle. It has great all-weather capability, and it won't get beat up on the roads around here like a 540iT with SP would. It looks good (to me). And, here's a good thing in my book that some of you might not care about-- it has tremendous resale value. If I wanted to get a new one in 3 or 4 years, I know that I can get top resale value because there are lots of people looking for them, and there is an even stronger market for them in Eastern Europe and shippers pay thousands above book value for cars to ship out of the country.
Did I mention that we love (and make ALOT of money off of) X5s at our dealership?
lemming
07-07-2005, 11:19 PM
I'd take a BMW minivan over a BMW SAV (Silly Ass Vehicle) any day. Lower center of gravity, more practical use of space and less lemming-like to boot.
I'm obviously BMW-biased for a good (and obvious) reason, but that gives me no reason to be biased towards any particular car. I'm quite honest when I say that the X5 is one of my favorite BMWs. I really like the way they drive. I like sitting up high. And, even though the actual volume of the cargo area might not be as big on paper, it's pretty handy for carrying alot of stuff that I've had to haul around. And, if I wanted to, I could tow a pretty respectable load behind the vehicle. It has great all-weather capability, and it won't get beat up on the roads around here like a 540iT with SP would. It looks good (to me). And, here's a good thing in my book that some of you might not care about-- it has tremendous resale value. If I wanted to get a new one in 3 or 4 years, I know that I can get top resale value because there are lots of people looking for them, and there is an even stronger market for them in Eastern Europe and shippers pay thousands above book value for cars to ship out of the country.
Did I mention that we love (and make ALOT of money off of) X5s at our dealership?
well, isn't that the entire point of hte x5 anyway? it's a purely money vehicle. that's why it's made in the US (and the X3 is assembled in el cheapo part of europe). production costs are low but that has no bearing on pricing at the dealership.
big, big, big margins.
(and the X3 is assembled in el cheapo part of europe). production costs are low but that has no bearing on pricing at the dealership.
big, big, big margins.
Um... Steyr is in Austria... which is not exactly an el-cheapo part of Europe.
The X3 was farmed out for capacity reasons and timing to get it to market quickly. There are rumours that the Gen II X3 will be built in the US since it costs too much to build in Europe, and most of the sales are US-based. But that gives BMW ~5 more years to expand capacity.
The X5 was built in the US because most sales were expected to be in the US -- when it was designed in the mid-90s, SUVs were not a large seller in Europe. Cost was a factor too, but overall it was to help minimize shipping costs. It probably also allows BMW to get some pretty decent rates on the RoRo ships from NA to Europe (if you haven't noticed, we tend to import more cars from Europe than we export)...
I'm generally not an SUV fan myself (I generally don't have the need for either a wagon or AWD). If I did want one, the X5 would be on the list (although it is less competitive now -- the FX, Taureg and Volvo are all very good competitors and would also be on an SUV shopping list if my needs changed).
Is the X5 "Wildly successful" as the article suggests?
Very well. If BMW wanted to totally trim down their model offerings, I'd be very happy with a model line consisting of 325i, 325xi and X5 models. That's where the huge majority of our new and pre-owned sales are.
When we were at the Greer, SC on June 16th, 2005, BMW was currently producing 425 X5s per day, consisting of two 10 hours shifts. It is still doing very well, especially with the diesel engine in Europe.
John V
07-08-2005, 07:04 AM
What the X5 is is a people / stuff hauler.
Not in my book. Unless you consider the Chrysler 300 and Avalon people/stuff haulers as well.
So the people/cargo hauler argument is pretty leaky.
No, no, you missed the point entirely.
zcasavant said that the X5 was a great handler for what it is. I asked him to define what "is" is. Is it a great handler for a vehicle that can comfortably haul four adults and some luggage? No, it's not. Not when compared to other vehicles that haul four adults and some luggage (i.e. cars that aren't a foot off the ground just for the sake of being a foot off the ground).
Is it a good handler consider that it's a 5-series with a lift kit? I suppose... :?
And, here's a good thing in my book that some of you might not care about-- it has tremendous resale value.
That's what I was told about the 3 series too. Turns out that the 3 series (and probably X5) resale is good for dealers selling used vehicles. But for average Joe selling his vehicle privately, it's an entirely different story.
That's what I was told about the 3 series too. Turns out that the 3 series(and probably X5) resale is good for dealers selling used vehicles. But for average Joe selling his vehicle privately, it's an entirely different story.
Very true...lost my @ss on the 330.
lemming
07-08-2005, 02:08 PM
having steyr subcontracted to assemble the vehicle is a lot cheaper than having German Labor Unionists assemble the vehicle. that's simple business and an easy call for BMW. then they sidestep their laborers again by having it assembled in the US, which is sitll cheaper than having it made in germany.
i didn't realize you thought of austria as an economic powerhouse. :)
The exchange rate has to make the U.S. built cars and trucks a mini-gold mine for BMW, no matter where they are sold. Assuming even wages, it costs 1/3 less to 1/2 less to pay the labor in the U.S. right now. I think. I'm not an economist. But it seems like the exchange rate has to be a big deal at the moment.
That's what I was told about the 3 series too. Turns out that the 3 series(and probably X5) resale is good for dealers selling used vehicles. But for average Joe selling his vehicle privately, it's an entirely different story.
Very true...lost my @ss on the 330.
OT: Out of curiosity I checked on my car. Edmunds says:
26K trade-in
27K private sale
30K Dealer
33K Certified
They didn't have the ZHP so I checked ZSP, 6-speed, and 18" wheels. Outstanding condition and 34K miles.
A search within 200 miles (Autotrader) yielded only 2 ZHP's. A 2003 with 13K miles asking 32K (private) and a 2004 asking 38K or so (dealer). So it seems to be a pretty rare car 'round here. I've seen less than 5 in over two years.
This would indicate that edmunds prices are pretty conservative (read: realistic).
lemming
07-08-2005, 05:39 PM
gawd. if i worried about resale value all of the time, i'd get locked into a lexus and always buy automatic equipped vehicles.
OT: Out of curiosity I checked on my car. Edmunds says:
26K trade-in
27K private sale
30K Dealer
33K Certified
They didn't have the ZHP so I checked ZSP, 6-speed, and 18" wheels. Outstanding condition and 34K miles.
A search within 200 miles (Autotrader) yielded only 2 ZHP's. A 2003 with 13K miles asking 32K (private) and a 2004 asking 38K or so (dealer). So it seems to be a pretty rare car 'round here. I've seen less than 5 in over two years.
This would indicate that edmunds prices are pretty conservative (read: realistic).
How many miles on your 330i? $26K for trade-in seems awfully high. A year ago, $26K was trade-in value for a 2003. And I normally go by kbb.com, and subtract $2000 from trade-in value, and that's what you seem to get at a dealer for most any mainstream vehicle. And you'll be lucky to find a dealer that will ever rate your vehicle as anything better than "fair" condition. Regardless of how perfect it looks. Just ask sarafil. He'll tell ya'.
[Obviously, private party sale is almost always the way to go.]
And I normally go by kbb.com, and subtract $2000 from trade-in value, and that's what you seem to get at a dealer for most any mainstream vehicle. And you'll be lucky to find a dealer that will ever rate your vehicle as anything better than "fair" condition. Regardless of how perfect it looks.
This was my experience as well.....
lemming
07-10-2005, 07:54 AM
And I normally go by kbb.com, and subtract $2000 from trade-in value, and that's what you seem to get at a dealer for most any mainstream vehicle. And you'll be lucky to find a dealer that will ever rate your vehicle as anything better than "fair" condition. Regardless of how perfect it looks.
This was my experience as well.....
yeah. i can predict the dealer's favorite line: "we have cash to give you, does kelly blue book plan on writing you a check for the amount you printed out?"
LOL. i've heard that so many times while closing a deal in the space near me with other people who bring in those printouts. it makes me smile.
private party sales are a pain in the ass (to me) --i always see the dealer as a nice buffer between me and the next guy. when i sold the 993 to a private party person, he was a complete pain in the ass about this that and the other thing while we clearly had our signatures on a notarized bill of sale with no warranties or guarantees. typically the other advantage is the sales tax differential that favors me when trading-in versus PP sale.
SARAFIL
07-10-2005, 10:18 AM
And I normally go by kbb.com, and subtract $2000 from trade-in value, and that's what you seem to get at a dealer for most any mainstream vehicle. And you'll be lucky to find a dealer that will ever rate your vehicle as anything better than "fair" condition. Regardless of how perfect it looks.
This was my experience as well.....
I appraise cars daily. I rarely find a car that is "perfect". People always come in with an idea of what KBB says their car is worth if they check off every option box and put in excellent condition. Then they get pissed when you mention to them that it isn't really excellent because it has two bald tires, two curbed wheels, two doors that have been repainted and it's past due for a $500 service.
Then, when we go back and point out these flaws, they comment on how it was just "a minor scratch" and how there's no way it had that much body work, or how the tires are "brand new". :rolleyes:
We often have to "peel people off the ceiling" when they come in with outrageous expectations. Unfortunately, probably 9 out of 10 people fall into this group.
SARAFIL
07-10-2005, 10:22 AM
$26K for trade-in seems awfully high.......... Just ask sarafil. He'll tell ya'.
Yep, you're right.
..:: VEHICLE
2003 BMW 330I
..:: DESCRIPTION
Engine Type: 6 CYL
Body Style: 4 DOOR SEDAN
Vincode: [EV53]
Standard Features: AUTOMATIC AC STD
DUAL POWER SEATS STD
HEAD AIR BAG STD
POWER WINDOWS STD
Base Price: @ 25,000 miles 23,150
Mileage: 34,000
..:: ADDS & DEDUCTS
ADD: PERFORMANCE PKG (INCL'S 18" WHEELS) + 1,300
DED: W/O AT (-) 800
DED: W/O LEATHER (-) 700
As Equipped Price 22,950
Mileage Adjustment -2,075
GALVES VALUE 20,875
..:: COMMENTS
In today's market, it's probably worth closer to $22,000-23,000.
SARAFIL
07-10-2005, 10:26 AM
For reference:
Engine: 6-Cyl. 3.0 Liter
Trans: 6 Speed Manual
Drive: RWD
Mileage: 34,000
Equipment
Performance Pkg
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Telescoping Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Single Compact Disc
Harman Kardon
Dual Front Air Bags
Front Side Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Traction Control
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Alloy Wheels
Consumer Rated Condition: Good
"Good" condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean title history , the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.
Trade-In Value $22,200
I've been a really big anti-KBB guy in the past few years since it has often had really inflated values. Much to my surprise, they've been really close in the past few months on alot of cars I've looked at.
And you'll be lucky to find a dealer that will ever rate your vehicle as anything better than "fair" condition. Regardless of how perfect it looks.
I could not agree with you more.
lemming
07-10-2005, 03:25 PM
For reference:
Engine: 6-Cyl. 3.0 Liter
Trans: 6 Speed Manual
Drive: RWD
Mileage: 34,000
Equipment
Performance Pkg
Air Conditioning
Power Steering
Power Windows
Power Door Locks
Telescoping Wheel
Cruise Control
AM/FM Stereo
Single Compact Disc
Harman Kardon
Dual Front Air Bags
Front Side Air Bags
ABS (4-Wheel)
Traction Control
Dual Power Seats
Moon Roof
Alloy Wheels
Consumer Rated Condition: Good
"Good" condition means that the vehicle is free of any major defects. This vehicle has a clean title history , the paint, body and interior have only minor (if any) blemishes, and there are no major mechanical problems. There should be little or no rust on this vehicle. The tires match and have substantial tread wear left. A "good" vehicle will need some reconditioning to be sold at retail. Most consumer owned vehicles fall into this category.
Trade-In Value $22,200
I've been a really big anti-KBB guy in the past few years since it has often had really inflated values. Much to my surprise, they've been really close in the past few months on alot of cars I've looked at.
i go through this often enough that i pretend to be outraged, but that ploy usual works just to get the trade-in from the fair to the good category and then i'm good.
guess i approach it from the other angle.
I've been a really big anti-KBB guy in the past few years since it has often had really inflated values. Much to my surprise, they've been really close in the past few months on alot of cars I've looked at.
Are there any printed publications that you use to help determine values? Everytime I've traded in, I've been offered very close to KBB wholesale value (about $2K less than trade-in value). It's been very predictable.
SARAFIL
07-10-2005, 10:26 PM
I've been a really big anti-KBB guy in the past few years since it has often had really inflated values. Much to my surprise, they've been really close in the past few months on alot of cars I've looked at.
Are there any printed publications that you use to help determine values? Everytime I've traded in, I've been offered very close to KBB wholesale value (about $2K less than trade-in value). It's been very predictable.
We use a combination of the Northeast Dealer's version of the NADA book, print and online versions of Galves, and Manheim's online MMR.
The NADA book has three values for each model (in this order, lowest to highest): loan, trade and retail. We use the retail value to base our asking prices, and we use the loan value (not the trade value) to determine the ACV. It's a common trick in the industry to show more for a trade by "over-allowing" (in other words, taking some of the money that you would otherwise give as a discount on the car you are selling and instead use it to show the client a higher trade figure-- the net difference is the same either way) The trade value is something that came about that takes this overallowance into account.
Wow, those prices are surprising and scary. And just so you know, I obviously believe you all. Thankfully I wont be selling my car anytime soon (I hope).
I know I brought this up to Sarafil before and he explained to me just how much playing room the dealer will get at the time of sale due to the low trade-in values, but if for example, a dealer pays me 22K for my car, and the certified MSRP is ~33K, that is an AWFUL lot of wiggle room. My car is a detail job and $200 (my cost) away from being almost showrrom condition, it is still under warranty etc. So I dont see how a dealer would ever have to spend more than 3K to bring my car to CPO status. That would leave at least 8K for the dealer to play with? All I can say is... :shock:
So I dont see how a dealer would ever have to spend more than 3K to bring my car to CPO status. That would leave at least 8K for the dealer to play with? All I can say is... :shock:
Yup, it's business. When I traded my 330i in for the MINI last summer, the very next day I saw the car on their used car lot (online listing) for $8K more than they gave me for it. Now I'm thinking that it didn't take much to "bring it up to CPO status", since they didn't take ownership of the car until late Sat. evening, and the service center isn't even open on Sunday. It probably went right to the used car lot after a good wash and vacuum. :rolleyes:
So I dont see how a dealer would ever have to spend more than 3K to bring my car to CPO status. That would leave at least 8K for the dealer to play with? All I can say is... :shock:
Yup, it's business. When I traded my 330i in for the MINI last summer, the very next day I saw the car on their used car lot (online listing) for $8K more than they gave me for it. Now I'm thinking that it didn't take much to "bring it up to CPO status", since they didn't take ownership of the car until late Sat. evening, and the service center isn't even open on Sunday. It probably went right to the used car lot after a good wash and vacuum. :rolleyes:
Hey that's great for the dealership, but considering I only paid $1100 over invoice for my car NEW and before the crazy incentives, etc, it seems that selling used cars is FAR more profitable. It still seems crazy to me.
All I'll say is that if a dealership is selling my car for ~30K uncertified, I could sell my car very quickly for 27K, and probably in a couple of days for 25K. Seems like a no-brainer.
So I dont see how a dealer would ever have to spend more than 3K to bring my car to CPO status. That would leave at least 8K for the dealer to play with? All I can say is... :shock:
Yup, it's business. When I traded my 330i in for the MINI last summer, the very next day I saw the car on their used car lot (online listing) for $8K more than they gave me for it. Now I'm thinking that it didn't take much to "bring it up to CPO status", since they didn't take ownership of the car until late Sat. evening, and the service center isn't even open on Sunday. It probably went right to the used car lot after a good wash and vacuum. :rolleyes:
Hey that's great for the dealership, but considering I only paid $1100 over invoice for my car NEW and before the crazy incentives, etc, it seems that selling used cars is FAR more profitable. It still seems crazy to me.
All I'll say is that if a dealership is selling my car for ~30K uncertified, I could sell my car very quickly for 27K, and probably in a couple of days for 25K. Seems like a no-brainer.
I doubt you could sell it in a couple of days for 25K. Your biggest problem with that car is that it is a special interest vehicle. Not as much as, say, an M3, but with no automatic and no leather it isn't what most people think of when they think "BMW." As a point of comparison, my car was built in 12/04 and arrived at the dealer in Jan 05. I bought it in March, and other than TD and Mrs. TD, no one had test driven it in the intervening period. That's at one of the largest volume BMW dealers in the country, at least according to them.
Anyhoo, you could find a buyer for your car, and you could probably find a buyer willing to pay a fair price for it, and you may even find someone quickly if the fates are in your favor. However, it may take a long time, and cutting the price might not shorten the wait. The pool of buyers who want your car is not very large, and neither is the pool of similar cars. As a result, you aren't really competing with other sellers on price, and cutting your ask by 2K is not going to get the 325iXA w/ ZPP intender to buy your car instead.
Anyhoo, you could find a buyer for your car
:eeps: :)
It's a common trick in the industry to show more for a trade by "over-allowing" ... The trade value is something that came about that takes this overallowance into account.
Always knew about over-allowing, but didn't equate it to why KBB's trade-in values are always about $2K higher than actual. Makes sense now that I put 2 + 2 together.
So I dont see how a dealer would ever have to spend more than 3K to bring my car to CPO status. That would leave at least 8K for the dealer to play with? All I can say is... :shock:
Yup, it's business. When I traded my 330i in for the MINI last summer, the very next day I saw the car on their used car lot (online listing) for $8K more than they gave me for it. Now I'm thinking that it didn't take much to "bring it up to CPO status", since they didn't take ownership of the car until late Sat. evening, and the service center isn't even open on Sunday. It probably went right to the used car lot after a good wash and vacuum. :rolleyes:
Hey that's great for the dealership, but considering I only paid $1100 over invoice for my car NEW and before the crazy incentives, etc, it seems that selling used cars is FAR more profitable. It still seems crazy to me.
All I'll say is that if a dealership is selling my car for ~30K uncertified, I could sell my car very quickly for 27K, and probably in a couple of days for 25K. Seems like a no-brainer.
I doubt you could sell it in a couple of days for 25K. Your biggest problem with that car is that it is a special interest vehicle. Not as much as, say, an M3, but with no automatic and no leather it isn't what most people think of when they think "BMW." As a point of comparison, my car was built in 12/04 and arrived at the dealer in Jan 05. I bought it in March, and other than TD and Mrs. TD, no one had test driven it in the intervening period. That's at one of the largest volume BMW dealers in the country, at least according to them.
Anyhoo, you could find a buyer for your car, and you could probably find a buyer willing to pay a fair price for it, and you may even find someone quickly if the fates are in your favor. However, it may take a long time, and cutting the price might not shorten the wait. The pool of buyers who want your car is not very large, and neither is the pool of similar cars. As a result, you aren't really competing with other sellers on price, and cutting your ask by 2K is not going to get the 325iXA w/ ZPP intender to buy your car instead.
You are right. My (our ;) ) car is not a good example. It is a very niche car. There will probably be a few people who would kill to have it, but must would rather get the slushie PP 330Xi. I knew this when I ordered the car, and thankfully it has been extremely reliable and I will keep it a few more years.
But I was talking in general terms about the pricing. Replace the ZHP with a slushie and PP and the 8K figure probably still holds. In THAT case, a good price will make the car move quickly.
SARAFIL
07-11-2005, 05:27 PM
Hey that's great for the dealership, but considering I only paid $1100 over invoice for my car NEW and before the crazy incentives, etc, it seems that selling used cars is FAR more profitable. It still seems crazy to me.
Many people in the industry say that the new car operations exist not to make money for the dealership, but instead to serve as a source to generate business for the used car department, finance department, service department, parts department and bodyshop-- the parts of the dealership that really make money.
If a dealership averages $1000 in new car gross profit per car, by the time they take out average salary per car and average interest expense per car, they are deep in the hole. Even with financial incentives from the manufacturer, it's very difficult for a dealer to make any money just from new car operations.
vBulletin® v3.7.1, Copyright ©2000-2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.