View Full Version : Refresh my memory... why do Z3's suck?
It has an LSD standard and weighs under 3000lbs (3.0). Sounds pretty good. There don't seem to be very many around here though.
You can pick up a 1999-2000 M Roadster for $18-25k. Depends on the mileage and condition.
I had a 99 Z3 2.3, it was a hoot to drive. Little go-cart and the closest thing to a E30. Just not a fan of convertibles.
Z3s had the e30 rear suspension, and debuted after the e36 had been out for 4 years -- since they used an older design, they were deamed to have sucked.
My Mom had a '98 1.9 Z3 (yep - a 4 pot). It was a fun car. I probably put on ~4000 miles on it (and she sold it with ~20k). Didn't have a ton of power, but it really didn't need it -- decent handling, enough go (and it was stick, so you could always downshift if you needed more grunt). The I6 engine fixed the power issue, and there's always the M Coupe and Roadster...
i'd think an s2000 or elise would be much better
operknockity
06-27-2005, 02:19 PM
I thought the reason that Z3s sucked was because you couldn't put a full sized golf bag in the trunk.
John V
06-27-2005, 02:21 PM
i'd think an s2000 or elise would be much better
For double the price today, an Elise sure as hell better be better.
S2000s are great fun if you can deal with the thrashy, no-torque motor.
rumatt
06-27-2005, 02:25 PM
Because it looks like a clown shoe?
i'd think an s2000 or elise would be much better
For double the price today, an Elise sure as hell better be better.
S2000s are great fun if you can deal with the thrashy, no-torque motor.
we're not talking today, and we're talking used
Jason C
06-27-2005, 04:26 PM
Semi-trailing arms (if you notice it).
Rear Subframe.
The usual BMW issues.
Roadstergal
06-27-2005, 05:36 PM
I thought the reason that Z3s sucked was because you couldn't put a full sized golf bag in the trunk.
Only the ones with the power top. Real roadsters don't have power tops anyway. :P
Because it looks like a clown shoe?
That's the coupe.
ZD has a 1.9 with over 100K on it as his only car. My Miata was a better sports/track car, but the 1.9 is awfully nice for commuting and long roadtrips. For 99% of the road use most folk see, it's plenty of car. It's fuel-efficient and has an engine that was sorted out in E30 days, so it's reliable. Comfy and pretty. For the price 1.9s are going for now, and the cheapness of upgrades, it's certainly a viable option for a roadster toy/tripmobile.
The common issues are convenience things. Gas gauge/sender. Rattly glovebox. CEL if you don't put the gas cap on right (it resets itself).
I thought the reason that Z3s sucked was because you couldn't put a full sized golf bag in the trunk.
:lol:
We had no trouble packing the Z3 for the Z3 homecoming for 3 days. You just got to know how to pack. BTW, sucks to ride in one for more than 3 hours.
Roadstergal
06-27-2005, 07:21 PM
BTW, sucks to ride in one for more than 3 hours.
I've ridden in a number of Z3s for multiple-day roadtrips. :dunno: I do find the standard seats more comfy than the sport, though.
(ZD, who likes to do roadtrips where he's in the car for weeks on end, had his seat redone by Rich's. They do a great number on motorcycle seats (they did my GS and will do my Breva), and will also fit car seats to your bod and install gel pads to make them ultracomfy.)
BTW, sucks to ride in one for more than 3 hours.
I've ridden in a number of Z3s for multiple-day roadtrips. :dunno: I do find the standard seats more comfy than the sport, though.
I had the sport seats and I am also 6' tall. Sitting that close to the floorboard that long killed me. I was unable to raise the seat any as my head would rub the roof.
lemming
06-27-2005, 08:41 PM
e36/8 owner checking in here.
where do i start?
hmmmmmm.
how about with common wisdom? that hte z3 1.9 was the most balanced car but that engine never exceeded the limits of the car. it was once they put the 6 cylinders in did the limitations rear their heads.
while i loved my m coupe, the interior was nice.....but it had a lot of hard plastic that my m3 didn't have. some of the chrome interior bits and uprated leather was nice, but then the rest of the interior plastics were terrible. and they rattled and squeaked brand new.
electrical and electronics. W O W. this was my introduction to lucas electrical systems (right on the fuse box) and dark current. NOT cool.
and let me reiterate: i am not a huge fan of US workers assembling the cars. let's put it this way: if you engineer something for a population of workers that you don't really trust, you don't exactly engineer the same way as you would for workers that you do trust, do you? look at GM, except they don't have workers that they trust. LOL. well, any BMWs assembled outside of Germany are engineered thusly. opinion? sure. truthful? in the case of the z3, yes.
handling: spooky at the limits, but your typical z3 driver wouldn't know that. very spooky. it might as well as a solid rear axle.
they're not as ugly as the z4, but the mechanical limitations of the z3 are really numerous.
Roadstergal
06-28-2005, 12:13 AM
handling: spooky at the limits, but your typical z3 driver wouldn't know that.
I've had stock S54s at a couple of driving schools and autoXs, and they're very tractable. I've heard they upgraded the suspension from the S52s to the S54s, though. ZD's 1.9 has an aftermarket suspension, so it's not really a straight comparison, but they're so cheap now it's a no-brainer not to put a good suspension in there when you get it. I haven't driven Karl's supercharged 1.9, but I've been a passenger a few times, and it's no slouch at the track. Again, a Miata with the same money invested would be a better track car, but the Z3 is hardly an ungainly handful.
They understeer, like any BMW, but not as badly as some BMWs.
John V
06-28-2005, 07:00 AM
i'd think an s2000 or elise would be much better
For double the price today, an Elise sure as hell better be better.
S2000s are great fun if you can deal with the thrashy, no-torque motor.
we're not talking today, and we're talking used
So when are we talking? Relative to yesterday, it's now tomorrow.
John V
06-28-2005, 07:04 AM
handling: spooky at the limits, but your typical z3 driver wouldn't know that.
I've had stock S54s at a couple of driving schools and autoXs, and they're very tractable. I've heard they upgraded the suspension from the S52s to the S54s, though. ZD's 1.9 has an aftermarket suspension, so it's not really a straight comparison, but they're so cheap now it's a no-brainer not to put a good suspension in there when you get it. I haven't driven Karl's supercharged 1.9, but I've been a passenger a few times, and it's no slouch at the track. Again, a Miata with the same money invested would be a better track car, but the Z3 is hardly an ungainly handful.
They understeer, like any BMW, but not as badly as some BMWs.
Short of doing the Ireland Engineering slotting to the rear subframe, there's not a lot you can do to eliminate the weird handling. There's just no adjustability back there.
If your thinking about picking up a used one, it is a great car. My family had one when they first came out and eventhough the 4 cylinder wasn't the quickest car I found it a lot of fun to rev out. The fun part of a car that isn't faat is you get the enjoyment of rowing through the gears more where a car with a lot of horsepower you are at the limit too quick enough to really get any fun out of it.
I found the Z3 to look good, handle REALLY well and to have a comfortable interior. The Miata is a great car as well when compared to the Z3 but the Miata's interior is a little smaller and more confining.
One other cool car in this class is the MR2 spyder and they can be had for a great deal.
So when are we talking? Relative to yesterday, it's now tomorrow.
"as a future MINI CS alternative"
which for mbr could be anywhere from 1 to 7 years from now
John V
06-28-2005, 08:21 AM
So when are we talking? Relative to yesterday, it's now tomorrow.
"as a future MINI CS alternative"
which for mbr could be anywhere from 1 to 7 years from now
Where was that posted? If Elises ever get as low in price as a BMW Z3 or an S2000 I'll buy two of them. I doubt it's gonna happen.
it was in the original post.
I guess mbr edited it
who said they'd ever be the same price?
John V
06-28-2005, 09:48 AM
it was in the original post.
I guess mbr edited it
who said they'd ever be the same price?
Overwhelmingly, people shop cars by price. Unlikely that anyone considering a used four cylinder Z3 is going to be looking at Elises.
it was in the original post.
I guess mbr edited it
who said they'd ever be the same price?
Overwhelmingly, people shop cars by price. Unlikely that anyone considering a used four cylinder Z3 is going to be looking at Elises.
mbr's been talking about getting an elise or a cayman for a long time
John V
06-28-2005, 10:33 AM
it was in the original post.
I guess mbr edited it
who said they'd ever be the same price?
Overwhelmingly, people shop cars by price. Unlikely that anyone considering a used four cylinder Z3 is going to be looking at Elises.
mbr's been talking about getting an elise or a cayman for a long time
Then I agree with your post.
For double the price, an S2000 is a great alternative.
For triple the price, an Elise is another great alternative.
it was in the original post.
I guess mbr edited it
who said they'd ever be the same price?
Overwhelmingly, people shop cars by price. Unlikely that anyone considering a used four cylinder Z3 is going to be looking at Elises.
mbr's been talking about getting an elise or a cayman for a long time
True, but a Z3 would not be in consideration among those choices.
Ideally we'd have:
1) Family car. - Roomy, nicely appointed, AWD, decent cargo, etc. Think large German wagon/SUV.
2) My car. - Sporty/fun daily driver but reasonbly comfortable for long commuting. Ocassional Autox/track. Think Cayman/Boxster/Elise/'vette/ etc.
3) Third car. - small, "inexpensive", kinda fun, can be driven in winter, can be parked all day at the train station year round. Think Mini CS.
So the (wacky) thought of a used Z3 with some guts was as an alternative to a MiniCS. It is still cute, my wife may like it, and since it would be a roadster, I could have my cake and eat it too. Realistically, the MCS has more utility is more modern and FWD.
Anyhow, let's not discuss this. I was just curious about the merits/demerits of a Z3. That's all.
Pinecone
06-28-2005, 04:48 PM
Nothing wrong with them.
As for the weird handling, Ireland subframe bushings cures the majority of that. Stock setup has the rear subframe flaoting. Ireland slotted mounts are to separate toe and camber settings in the rear, not requried but nice if you lower the car. BTW no real change in S52 to S54 suspensions. But they did change the diff from a 3.23 to 3.15.
Other cure for the rear being happy is a Strong Strut Butt Strut. Alone or combined the Ireland sub frame bushings.
As for uncomfortable for longer trips, see MZ3.net for the seat tilt mod. You raise the front of the seat up 3/4" or so and a lot of the lower back pain goes away.
For balance and omph, D/A supercharger on 1.9L. :banana:
But Ms are nice. Add in Bilstein Sports, H&R springs, sways (we have RDs but H&R now has a set), 3.73 diff out of a E30 325is, and it even gets better. :)
Roadstergal
06-28-2005, 07:06 PM
Other cure for the rear being happy is a Strong Strut Butt Strut. Alone or combined the Ireland sub frame bushings.
Or a rollbar, for stiffness and safety without losing more ground clearance. HMS makes an expensive one and Hard Dog makes a less expensive one.
lemming
06-28-2005, 10:39 PM
right. the z3 was so successful they finally grafted the E46 rear end onto the z4.
i wonder why they did that.
please, give me half a break. the z3 was, as the british say, the ultimate hairdresser car because it never came close to the Boxster or Boxster S in execution.
lip277
06-28-2005, 10:43 PM
I'm wierd.
I can tolorate the roadster but I really really like the coupe.
Go figure.....
:rolleyes:
:lol:
(seriously though)
Roadstergal
06-29-2005, 12:14 AM
please, give me half a break.
If you're looking for the ultimate track car, the Z3 ain't it. But if you're not, as I was taking this thread to intend, it has much to recommend it.
If you're looking for the ultimate track car, ditch any BMW. :P
please, give me half a break.
If you're looking for the ultimate track car, the Z3 ain't it. But if you're not, as I was taking this thread to intend, it has much to recommend it.
If you're looking for the ultimate track car, ditch any BMW. :P
:lol:
Anyhow, yes. This car would never see the track or autox. It would be an "inexpensive" cute/fun car for my wife, whose standard fo a fun car is a VW Beetle. :rolleyes: ...That said, she took the 330i yesterday and I drove the 9-2X behind her and holy cow, she was hauling ass. We get home and she goes, "wow, I never realized just how much fun this car is."
I know she hates lag and low torque (both issues in the MCS), and she is spoiled by nice inline-6's. Turns out she likes the Z3 too. So we'll just add it as an alternative when the time comes to look for that 3rd car. With snows and maybe a hardtop, it should be able to handle mild winter weather. The biggest issue is that we'd then likely have two 2-seat sportscars. That doesn't seem very rational. Of course that just begs the question of why not just keep the 330i as the 3rd car. Whatever, there is plenty of time to sort this out.
John V
06-29-2005, 08:59 AM
The biggest issue is that we'd then likely have two 2-seat sportscars. That doesn't seem very rational. Of course that just begs the question of why not just keep the 330i as the 3rd car. Whatever, there is plenty of time to sort this out.
Whoever said you had to be rational? My brother and his girlfriend live together in Colorado and jointly own a Miata, an Elise and a Mazda 626. Seems perfectly OK to me... :)
Roadstergal
06-29-2005, 12:05 PM
With snows and maybe a hardtop, it should be able to handle mild winter weather.
With snows and a hardtop, you'll be amazed where you can go.
I recommend the microbit Toyos...
Roadstergal
06-30-2005, 11:56 AM
Gratuitous photo whoring... ~150K mile '96 1.9.
<img src=http://www.roadstergal.info/6_29_05/842.jpg>
<img src=http://www.roadstergal.info/6_29_05/816.jpg>
<img src=http://www.roadstergal.info/6_29_05/862.jpg>
<img src=http://www.roadstergal.info/6_29_05/865.jpg>
<img src=http://www.roadstergal.info/6_29_05/843.jpg>
lemming
06-30-2005, 11:37 PM
god.
the z3 wasn't my cup of tea stylistically, but those pictures highlight the fact that the z4 just sucks pondwater.
For its time, it was awesome, especially with James Bond in it. It's just that its time has past and it was trendy enough that it doesn't have the same appeal it used to. imo.
Pinecone
07-01-2005, 07:13 PM
Npe the Z4 is trendy, so trendy, it was past its time before it came out. :)
The Z3 is more classic timeless sroadster look from the 50s and 60s.
lemming
07-01-2005, 08:19 PM
Npe the Z4 is trendy, so trendy, it was past its time before it came out. :)
The Z3 is more classic timeless sroadster look from the 50s and 60s.
with the advent of the z4, i'm actually even more of a z3 fan than i ever was.
Roadstergal
07-02-2005, 06:33 PM
I did a Z4 photo shoot at the same place. IMO, utterly different cars, cool-looking in their own ways - like the old-style SV with round fairings that I have vs. the current generation.
I like to play devil's advocate with Z3 owners who dismiss other roadsters (including the Z4) and claim some kind of classic heritage for the styling, but that doesn't change the fact that I think it's a dandy road car and like how it looks.
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