View Full Version : '05 Mustang > All
Jason C
06-27-2005, 11:33 AM
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0506/27/0auto-229229.htm
Sales of the Mustang are up 47 percent through the end of May over what they were last year before the redesign. The redesigned car is selling better than Chrysler's popular 300 sedan. It also is outselling 13 brands, including Scion, Saturn, Mercedes-Benz and Subaru.
Oh, and:
The last time used values went up after a new model was introduced was in 2001 when BMW introduced the new 7 Series, which loyal BMW fans initially despised. Demand went up for the less controversial older model for about a month or so.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
The last time used values went up after a new model was introduced was in 2001 when BMW introduced the new 7 Series, which loyal BMW fans initially despised. Demand went up for the less controversial older model for about a month or so.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Initially?
The last time used values went up after a new model was introduced was in 2001 when BMW introduced the new 7 Series, which loyal BMW fans initially despised. Demand went up for the less controversial older model for about a month or so.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Initially?
I saw the facelifted E65 for the first time yesterday. Much, much better. I like it.
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0506/27/0auto-229229.htm
Sales of the Mustang are up 47 percent through the end of May over what they were last year before the redesign. The redesigned car is selling better than Chrysler's popular 300 sedan. It also is outselling 13 brands, including Scion, Saturn, Mercedes-Benz and Subaru.
Oh, and:
The last time used values went up after a new model was introduced was in 2001 when BMW introduced the new 7 Series, which loyal BMW fans initially despised. Demand went up for the less controversial older model for about a month or so.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Nice to see a genuine hit. The only question is how long the legs of the new Mustang are--will it be a fad car like the Beetle, PT Cruiser, et al.?
I think to some extent that the answer is yes, but I think that the demand for the GT is probably deeper than that. My completely uneducated guess is that people buying GTs are less motivated by fashion and more motivated by the value/performance story.
Just goes to show that, in the end, it ALWAYS is about product. Build a good car, and people will buy it. All the rest is window dressing.
Jason C
06-27-2005, 12:12 PM
The last time used values went up after a new model was introduced was in 2001 when BMW introduced the new 7 Series, which loyal BMW fans initially despised. Demand went up for the less controversial older model for about a month or so.
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Initially?
I saw the facelifted E65 for the first time yesterday. Much, much better. I like it.
I just saw one this morning. At least this time around, it doesn't look like it's falling asleep.
The 7 has grown on me, but I still hate the headlights, pre-facelift and facelift.
I continue to hate the 5-Series, Z4, and X3. :vomit:
John V
06-27-2005, 01:03 PM
The 7 has grown on me, but I still hate the headlights, pre-facelift and facelift.
I continue to hate the 5-Series, Z4, and X3. :vomit:
Agreed 100%.
I like the looks of the new Mustang. Dynamically it seems to be a hit as well. I just don't think I can get past my last ford experience. :(
The 7 has grown on me, but I still hate the headlights, pre-facelift and facelift.
I continue to hate the 5-Series, Z4, and X3. :vomit:
Agreed 100%.
I like the looks of the new Mustang. Dynamically it seems to be a hit as well. I just don't think I can get past my last ford experience. :(
My last ford experience was with my parents' Taurus, back when it was supposed to be the end-all of family sedans. I can say that it's never stranded them in 15 years and probably close to 175000 miles. But everything else -- from the cruise control to the paint -- broke early and broke often. They still have it. I still hate it. In contrast, I've grown quite fond of my little Focus. I never thought I'd own a Ford, but I'm glad I took the "risk."
John V
06-27-2005, 02:12 PM
My last ford experience was with my parents' Taurus, back when it was supposed to be the end-all of family sedans. I can say that it's never stranded them in 15 years and probably close to 175000 miles. But everything else -- from the cruise control to the paint -- broke early and broke often. They still have it. I still hate it. In contrast, I've grown quite fond of my little Focus. I never thought I'd own a Ford, but I'm glad I took the "risk."
I had a '95 Taurus SHO for a couple years. Biggest POS I've ever owned. The only thing that didn't break or wear out prematurely on that car was the gem of a motor.
It's clear the chassis was just not designed to take that much power.
My last ford experience was with my parents' Taurus, back when it was supposed to be the end-all of family sedans. I can say that it's never stranded them in 15 years and probably close to 175000 miles. But everything else -- from the cruise control to the paint -- broke early and broke often. They still have it. I still hate it. In contrast, I've grown quite fond of my little Focus. I never thought I'd own a Ford, but I'm glad I took the "risk."
I had a '95 Taurus SHO for a couple years. Biggest POS I've ever owned. The only thing that didn't break or wear out prematurely on that car was the gem of a motor.
It's clear the chassis was just not designed to take that much power.
The old SHOs had their share of problems. My family had two V6s, and both were bad from a maintenance standpoint.
Mustangs, OTOH, have generally been pretty bulletproof (bullitproof?). My immediate family has had probably a dozen Fox and SN95 Mustangs, maybe more, and with the exception of a really awful 1978 Capri, all of them have been rock solid in terms of reliability.
I gotta say, given the choice between owning an 05 Mustang and a 95 M3, maintenance is not the thing that would be swaying me toward the BMW.
clyde
06-27-2005, 02:42 PM
I gotta say, given the choice between owning an 05 Mustang and a 95 M3, maintenance is not the thing that would be swaying me toward the BMW.
What would you sway you toward the 95 M3 in that scenario? The only things that I can think of off the top of my head would be lower initial cost and the badge. (Can't claim anything low tech about that mod V8 :()
Call me whatever you want, but I still can't get past thinking the Mustang (regardless of generation - classics excepted) is cheesy. I don't care what it'll do or how much it costs if I think it's just so damn cheesy.
I'm sorry.
Call me whatever you want, but I still can't get past thinking the Mustang (regardless of generation - classics excepted) is cheesy. I don't care what it'll do or how much it costs if I think it's just so damn cheesy.
I'm sorry.
The classics were cheesy too. :eeps:
If the new one actually does handle reasonably, that's a big difference.
Call me whatever you want, but I still can't get past thinking the Mustang (regardless of generation - classics excepted) is cheesy. I don't care what it'll do or how much it costs if I think it's just so damn cheesy.
I'm sorry.
The classics were cheesy too. :eeps:
If the new one actually does handle reasonably, that's a big difference.
Even if it does, it's still cheesy. VERY cheesy.
I gotta say, given the choice between owning an 05 Mustang and a 95 M3, maintenance is not the thing that would be swaying me toward the BMW.
What would you sway you toward the 95 M3 in that scenario? The only things that I can think of off the top of my head would be lower initial cost and the badge. (Can't claim anything low tech about that mod V8 :()
Lower initial cost and potentially the handling; the E36 is a smaller, lighter car than the Mustang, and as good as the Mustang felt during my limited drive I suspect that when the chips are down the M3 is going to be the better handler.
But, when I think about how much money I had to put (or worry about putting) into my E36 M3, versus what I imagine the running costs of the Mustang will be, that initial investment advantage starts to rapidly shrink. Then think about mods; Mustang parts are going to be lots cheaper and more plentiful than anything you can get for the M3.
Call me whatever you want, but I still can't get past thinking the Mustang (regardless of generation - classics excepted) is cheesy. I don't care what it'll do or how much it costs if I think it's just so damn cheesy.
I'm sorry.
The classics were cheesy too. :eeps:
If the new one actually does handle reasonably, that's a big difference.
Even if it does, it's still cheesy. VERY cheesy.
Dude, what are you talking about?
The Mustang's styling is very understated; perhaps even demure. Parked next to an E36, it shares many of the same overt styling themes, and its execution is just as subtle. About the only "cheesy" styling element is the fake gas cap/badge on the trunk, and that can be removed very quickly.
What else is cheesy about it? Big engine? Small price? Solid handling? Driving dynamics that have won loud praise from nearly everyone that's driven one?
Or is it just the badge that's cheesy? If so, why? Because it's a popular car amongst people who like to measure performance one 1/4 at a time? That doesn't make it bad, any more than dtmpower.net ruins BMWs or stuka ruins Porsches.
Whoops.
Disregard that last one.
John V
06-27-2005, 03:17 PM
I gotta say, given the choice between owning an 05 Mustang and a 95 M3, maintenance is not the thing that would be swaying me toward the BMW.
What would you sway you toward the 95 M3 in that scenario? The only things that I can think of off the top of my head would be lower initial cost and the badge. (Can't claim anything low tech about that mod V8 :()
Lower initial cost and potentially the handling; the E36 is a smaller, lighter car than the Mustang, and as good as the Mustang felt during my limited drive I suspect that when the chips are down the M3 is going to be the better handler.
But, when I think about how much money I had to put (or worry about putting) into my E36 M3, versus what I imagine the running costs of the Mustang will be, that initial investment advantage starts to rapidly shrink. Then think about mods; Mustang parts are going to be lots cheaper and more plentiful than anything you can get for the M3.
E36 M3 parts ARE cheap. ;)
I'll have to reserve judgement on the handling of the Mustang until I drive one (could be a while). I suspect the M3 will easily out-handle it, though. If not, that car better be heading to B Stock like pronto.
Used E36 M3 vs. new Mustang. That's a great question and a tough call.
The M3 is cheaper to buy, but probably/definitely more expensive to maintain. The Mustang would be pricier up front, and would suffer from Detroit-style depreciation, but already has a large aftermarket and is probably going to hold up to a decent amount of abuse. For me, the road feel, handling, and overall comfort I have with the M3 would be balanced by the superior power, cachet, and looks of the Mustang (GT). I honestly don't know which one I'd buy.
There is one caveat to this problem. If I was presented with a four-door M3, then I'd buy it over the Mustang.
In contrast, I've grown quite fond of my little Focus. I never thought I'd own a Ford, but I'm glad I took the "risk."
Isn't the Ford Focus designed by Ford of .de and not somewhere in Michigan?
I can't remember, but maybe. Still, my car was built in Mexico. If that doesn't scream quality, I don't know what does.
clyde
06-27-2005, 03:37 PM
E36 M3 parts ARE cheap. ;)
Not Mustang like cheap.
I'll have to reserve judgement on the handling of the Mustang until I drive one (could be a while).
Then again, maybe not. ;)
I suspect the M3 will easily out-handle it, though.
What metrics are you using to quantify handling?
If not, that car better be heading to B Stock like pronto.
If it's the time it takes to get around an autox course, where have you been? With few exceptions, does actual naked performance matter WRT classing. The new Mustang has brought forth proposals to pull the Camaro SS and Firebird WS6s out of AS to put them back in the land of FS dinosaurs where they belong. Isn't that saying the same thing as the SEB and SAC believing that the new Mustang has just as much potential as the all powerful E46 M3 which those cars currently compete against?
E36 M3 parts ARE cheap. ;)
Not Mustang like cheap.
I'll have to reserve judgement on the handling of the Mustang until I drive one (could be a while).
Then again, maybe not. ;)
I suspect the M3 will easily out-handle it, though.
What metrics are you using to quantify handling?
If not, that car better be heading to B Stock like pronto.
If it's the time it takes to get around an autox course, where have you been? With few exceptions, does actual naked performance matter WRT classing. The new Mustang has brought forth proposals to pull the Camaro SS and Firebird WS6s out of AS to put them back in the land of FS dinosaurs where they belong. Isn't that saying the same thing as the SEB and SAC believing that the new Mustang has just as much potential as the all powerful E46 M3 which those cars currently compete against?
There was a convertible running at Toledo, I noticed. How did it look?
Still can't believe that no one has run one in an SCCA event here yet.
clyde
06-27-2005, 04:14 PM
It was lifting the inside front E36 M3 like :eeps:
It was lifting the inside front E36 M3 like :eeps:
Did have a different front bar? Was it well driven?
Jason C
06-27-2005, 04:30 PM
Or is it just the badge that's cheesy? If so, why? Because it's a popular car amongst people who like to measure performance one 1/4 at a time? That doesn't make it bad, any more than dtmpower.net ruins BMWs or stuka ruins Porsches.
Whoops.
Disregard that last one.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
It was lifting the inside front E36 M3 like :eeps:
Did have a different front bar? Was it well driven?
I don't recall thinking that it was being driven poorly but the suspension looked awfully soft.
Call me whatever you want, but I still can't get past thinking the Mustang (regardless of generation - classics excepted) is cheesy. I don't care what it'll do or how much it costs if I think it's just so damn cheesy.
I'm sorry.
Agree 100%
In Tennessee a Mustang = Redneck.
Sorry, just the truth for this part of the country.
The difference between you guys that think the mustang is cheesy and me is that you care what other people think enough to let their opinion control what kind of car you have. I can't imagine *not* buying a Mustang if that was the car I wanted b/c some group of snobs would look down on me b/c of my car choice. I just don't care and I don't think anyone else should either.
I suppose that's why I think it's just fine that ricers exist. B/c I also don't think that they shouldn't do what they want with their cars just b/c I think it's idiotic.
I'm sorry.
lemming
06-27-2005, 08:47 PM
The difference between you guys that think the mustang is cheesy and me is that you care what other people think enough to let their opinion control what kind of car you have. I can't imagine *not* buying a Mustang if that was the car I wanted b/c some group of snobs would look down on me b/c of my car choice. I just don't care and I don't think anyone else should either.
I suppose that's why I think it's just fine that ricers exist. B/c I also don't think that they shouldn't do what they want with their cars just b/c I think it's idiotic.
I'm sorry.
are we soul brothers?
i agree with you. it's why i've owned an STi, now 2 vettes and a CTS-V. i'm not overly sensitive to snobbery. snobbery is impaled on the lance that is speed kicking your ass like sister mary joan for taking the lord's name in vain.
the e36m3 is still a handling benchmark, but what's frightening about the automotive bar is how it tends to continue to slide.....to the right by leaps and bounds. not only is the new mustang more rigid, but it has a lot more torque. on a road course, i give the advantage nominally to the M3 for being better out of the box, but i wouldn't be surprised if it actually came down to the driver in a car v. car lap timing session.
i think the mustang is cool. it was penned, after all, by an asian.
i think the mustang is cool. it was penned, after all, by an asian.
sweet, so was the e90 and Z3
clyde
06-27-2005, 09:38 PM
Call me whatever you want, but I still can't get past thinking the Mustang (regardless of generation - classics excepted) is cheesy. I don't care what it'll do or how much it costs if I think it's just so damn cheesy.
I'm sorry.
Agree 100%
In Tennessee a Mustang = Redneck.
Sorry, just the truth for this part of the country.
In the other 49 states, Tennessee = Redneck
Sorry, just the truth for the whole rest of the country.
clyde
06-27-2005, 09:43 PM
I can't imagine *not* buying a Mustang if that was the car I wanted b/c some group of snobs would look down on me b/c of my car choice. I just don't care and I don't think anyone else should either.
TD is on record as being reluctant to own a Porsche or big BMW because of what other people would think. This is no different, IMO.
A lot of people will think one thing or another about you based on what car you drive. Based on the clothes you wear. Based on what zip code you live in. Based on where you went to school. Based on what your father did/does for a living. Based on one completely meaningless bullshit thing or another. You either do what you want to do becuase it's the right thing for you or you cave into others' perceptions...which may be the right thing for some people in some situations, but it still is what it is.
In the other 49 states, Tennessee = Redneck
Sorry, just the truth for the whole rest of the country.
Interesting...you forgot the other "redneck states:" NC, SC, GA, MS, KY, AK, and my favorite Alabama. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
So wouldn't that be the other 42 states? ;)
lemming
06-27-2005, 10:12 PM
i think the mustang is cool. it was penned, after all, by an asian.
sweet, so was the e90 and Z3
no. the (german) man was still keeping the asians down in those cases. on the mustang, he was the head man on the project. it's why the outcomes were so different.
:flipoff:
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