uh-oh. MotorTrend: 350z > than mustang GT.

[lemming]

the magazine celebrates the Chevy small block (ahem. tangential).

so, then they compare the Ford GT to the Ferrari 430 Modena --did you guys realize the blower eats 100hp at peak power output? anyway, they end up still choosing the F430 because it's better in everything except the straightline. go figure.

they then compare the 350Z roadster to the Ford Mustang GT; the GT is clearly faster in a straightline, but does not brake as well nor can it handle as well (slalom speed and skipad).

when you (JeSTer & Snyde) drove the mustang, it's interesting how much better it felt to you two than did the GTO; that said, it seems to not do so well against more nimble cars.

i found it an interesting magazine overall. the third comparison was......oh i forget. just posting this as food for thought and another comparison test.

[JST]

my ass >>>> Motor Trend

I stopped reading that mag a long time ago; I put very little credence in anything they say or publish, and that isn't limited to editorial commentary.

Having said that, since I've never driven a Z of any kind, and since I've never driven a Mustang convertible (which, it should be noted, has softer suspension settings than the coupe), I will reserve judgment. It's certainly possible (indeed, likely) that the Z is a more nimble car than the Mustang, especially given that the Mustang ships on somewhat skinny all-season tires for 05.

I need more seat time in the Mustang to reach a real conclusion. What I really need to do is autocross one. I wish someone would frigging buy one so I could drive it.

[lemming]

well, i put a lot of faith in the feedback from you and Snyde.

so i was really surprised at the differences in skidpad as well as slalom. it can't just be tires, there, can it? and it cannot be simply the convertible's loss of rigidity because the new mustang convertible is supposed to be amazing in that respect.

in the end, MT chose the Mustang GT, but it bothers me on the more quantitative level that the 350Z outperforms the Mustang GT.

[rumatt]

my ass >>>> Motor Trend


:lol:

[JST]

well, i put a lot of faith in the feedback from you and Snyde.

so i was really surprised at the differences in skidpad as well as slalom. it can't just be tires, there, can it? and it cannot be simply the convertible's loss of rigidity because the new mustang convertible is supposed to be amazing in that respect.

in the end, MT chose the Mustang GT, but it bothers me on the more quantitative level that the 350Z outperforms the Mustang GT.

Slalom might be less about tires and more about the softer damping/springing on the convertible--that'll make the transient response more sluggish.

I would think that both the skidpad and braking results would be heavily influenced by tire choice, though.

In any event, I don't take anything away from the Z. Properly driven, they seem to be able to at least give RX-8s a run for their money on the autocross circuit, so the suspension tuning has to be pretty good. The FM platform is very well designed, and the suspension geometry on the Z is light-years ahead of the Mustang. If you believe Nissan, even the peak power is pretty close, though the Mustang has a serious torque advantage. I'd never buy one, myself, just because I think the G35 is a much better choice, but I can imagine that the Z can post better numbers than the Mustang.

[lemming]

the price on the mustang GT convertible costs 35,000 as tested; the 350z is 41,000.

these cars are NOT cheap.

[clyde]

Does the Z have all seasons on it? Or did they put summer tires similar to the Z's? If not, why even even bother conducting the comparison? I understand the value of comparing out of the box, but when one car is so severely handicapped by what is arguably the fastest wearing of all wear items ever invented for a car... :flame: It's not a Mustang thing, it's a rant against all magazines that conduct these types of comparisons.

Anyway, that said...

from what I remember reading, the Mustang is considerably softer sprung and damped than the coupe. No idea if the Z is in a similar situation. The Mustang also has a much bigger hole in the body due to it's nature of being a four place car, and that's going to be an issue if you are narrowly focused on a single aspect.

I wouldn't draw any conclusions about either hartop car based on the convertibles...especially not an MT comparison.

[lemming]

they complained a lot about the brakes, too.

the softly sprung suspension is the likely culprit, but they noted a lot of nosedive upon braking and feel that was spongy --they also did not like the turn-in; if it's true that the GT convert gets suckage for tires, that could explain that right there.

[JST]

they complained a lot about the brakes, too.

the softly sprung suspension is the likely culprit, but they noted a lot of nosedive upon braking and feel that was spongy --they also did not like the turn-in; if it's true that the GT convert gets suckage for tires, that could explain that right there.

All GTs get the same tires this year, I believe--17" P Zero Neros. Not crap, and certainly a massive improvement over the hated Skaterbacks, but not a serious performance tire, either.

Next year will bring 18" wheels, which will be lower profile and presumably summer-focused--based on Ford's history, they may be g force T/As, or similar.

A set of 18" wheels and PS2s would be my first purchase.

[lemming]

i like the PZeros!

for 95% of my driving, it's a great tire.

one of the nicer tires that i have come across, actually.

[John V]

Doesn't the mustang cost somewhere around $10,000 less than the Z (MSRP)?

[lemming]

Doesn't the mustang cost somewhere around $10,000 less than the Z (MSRP)?

i think a loaded GT is about 27k?? 28k?

the Z can run anywhere from 30k to 35k. the price delta will vary but it's clear that the mustang has more "character" because of its v8 engine. with that price delta, i'd rather spend my money tweaking the suspenion and improving brake feel.

the VQ motor is splendid enough, but it won't compare to the ford v8 with PROPER GEARING.

[Optimus Prime]

my ass >>>> Motor Trend


:lol:
Motor Trend is a bunch of crap, have been for a while now. Either they're being paid off, or they're idiots.

[The HACK]

Does the Z have all seasons on it?

Unless you buy the track model, it comes with all seasons.

[clyde]

interesting

[John V]

Does the Z have all seasons on it?

Unless you buy the track model, it comes with all seasons.
Maybe in other markets, but not here. There are four 350Zs (edit, one "Enthusiast" model, one "Base" model) in the parking lot, they all have 17" Bridgestone Potenza RE040 Z-rated summer rubber on them.

JV

[John V]

At the last Button Willow school where Hack was in B in his stock 350Z, he vaporized the pads because the 350Z has shit for brakes.
That doesn't necessarily say anything about the brakes. It might say something about the pads. It might say something about his technique. Did he have sticky tires on?

Did he have the track package or the standard brakes?

[The HACK]

At the last Button Willow school where Hack was in B in his stock 350Z, he vaporized the pads because the 350Z has shit for brakes.
That doesn't necessarily say anything about the brakes. It might say something about the pads. It might say something about his technique. Did he have sticky tires on?

Did he have the track package or the standard brakes?

Enthusiast trim has the standard, sliding caliper 12" rotors front, 10.5" rotors rear.

The "track" version only upgrades the front brake package.

It's still inexcusable sh*tty brakes. And if you're comparing the cars out of the box, it wouldn't matter what material I run, because I never had the same problem with OEM BMW brakes, and I ran stock pads up until I got to C...I'm actually easier on the brakes now than I was in C.

[John V]

The "track" version only upgrades the front brake package.

Hm. So it's not the same package as on the G35 then, which has Brembo calipers in the rear as well. That's odd.


It's still inexcusable sh*tty brakes. And if you're comparing the cars out of the box, it wouldn't matter what material I run, because I never had the same problem with OEM BMW brakes, and I ran stock pads up until I got to C...I'm actually easier on the brakes now than I was in C.

You're unique, then. All of my track buddies have had to go to track pads because of heat issues with the stock pads. Now if you have an E30 I can understand - most of these guys are E36 / E46 owners. The stock pads are definitely not up to the task.

All I'm saying is that the performance of the brakes in that environment has a lot to do with other variables OTHER than the size of the rotors and the construction of the calipers. Bottom line, yes you lose out on feel and modulation with a sliding caliper versus a fixed one but the absolute strength and fade resistance of the system is not dependent on that.

[lemming]

The "track" version only upgrades the front brake package.

Hm. So it's not the same package as on the G35 then, which has Brembo calipers in the rear as well. That's odd.


It's still inexcusable sh*tty brakes. And if you're comparing the cars out of the box, it wouldn't matter what material I run, because I never had the same problem with OEM BMW brakes, and I ran stock pads up until I got to C...I'm actually easier on the brakes now than I was in C.

You're unique, then. All of my track buddies have had to go to track pads because of heat issues with the stock pads. Now if you have an E30 I can understand - most of these guys are E36 / E46 owners. The stock pads are definitely not up to the task.

All I'm saying is that the performance of the brakes in that environment has a lot to do with other variables OTHER than the size of the rotors and the construction of the calipers. Bottom line, yes you lose out on feel and modulation with a sliding caliper versus a fixed one but the absolute strength and fade resistance of the system is not dependent on that.

it IS odd as i, too, thought the Z came with brembos front and rear.

interesting that the Z would demonstrate more fade than even OEM BMW brakes. BMW brakes are great, in my experience......for the first half of a track session.......... :lol: .

[John V]

interesting that the Z would demonstrate more fade than even OEM BMW brakes. BMW brakes are great, in my experience......for the first half of a track session.......... :lol: .

As I'm sure you already know that can usually be cured with just a pad change and fluid flush and fill.

JV