View Full Version : Yup, I'm waffling over the wagon again...
Well, my wife made me waffle.
Remember my previous plan of getting an Impreza for cheap and push off the Outback 3.0R purchase until we actually had kids?
Well, my wife was opposed to buying this car only to swap it a year or two later. So we decided to just wait and buy the Outback 3.0R at the end of the year.
So today the topic came back up, and when I told her how much the monthly payments would be she was surprised. :?
Now we're wondering if we should go for a base Impreza wagon/saab 9-2X soon (within a couple of months) and drive that car (as just a 2nd car/winter car) unitl we have kids and then trade up to the Outback 3.0R. :rolleyes:
I'll test-drive it again. It wasn't fun to drive, it wasn't refined, but I wont drive it to work unless the winter weather sucks or I need to carry my mtn bike. It would just be used for shopping, trips to the city, and long trips to canada etc. And of course, for whenever we need a 2nd car.
This car would eventually be traded for a Mini for my wife or just kept as a winter beater probably. It's just a very handy, inexpensive vehicle, like JST pointed out.
Thoughts? Am I (are we) nuts? Should we just suck it up with one car for another 6 months and then get the 50% more expensive Outback 3.0R?
SARAFIL
05-12-2005, 10:33 PM
Well, my wife made me waffle.
Remember my previous plan of getting an Impreza for cheap and push off the Outback 3.0R purchase until we actually had kids?
Well, my wife was opposed to buying this car only to swap it a year or two later. So we decided to just wait and buy the Outback 3.0R at the end of the year.
So today the topic came back up, and when I told her how much the monthly payments would be she was surprised. :?
Now we're wondering if we should go for a base Impreza wagon/saab 9-2X soon (within a couple of months) and drive that car (as just a 2nd car/winter car) unitl we have kids and then trade up to the Outback 3.0R. :rolleyes:
I'll test-drive it again. It wasn't fun to drive, it wasn't refined, but I wont drive it to work unless the winter weather sucks or I need to carry my mtn bike. It would just be used for shopping, trips to the city, and long trips to canada etc. And of course, for whenever we need a 2nd car.
This car would eventually be traded for a Mini for my wife or just kept as a winter beater probably. It's just a very handy, inexpensive vehicle, like JST pointed out.
Thoughts? Am I (are we) nuts? Should we just suck it up with one car for another 6 months and then get the 50% more expensive Outback 3.0R?
Where is that post about the something like $5000 rebates on the 9-2x? If you like it, I'm sure you can get one hell of a deal.
rumatt
05-12-2005, 10:35 PM
MBR, I waffle a lot, but you may have me beat. I'm not talkig about just waffling over one decision... but the kind of waffling that never ends. :P Continually refining the plan ensure that the cost/benefit ratio is being maximized. :lol: I feel your pain.
I was thinking about a WRX today. Seems like a fun winter car, but it might get annoying to drive every day.
Where is that post about the something like $5000 rebates on the 9-2x? If you like it, I'm sure you can get one hell of a deal.
I know, it was that thread that prompted this new wave of waffling.
MBR, I waffle a lot, but you may have me beat. I'm not talkig about just waffling over one decision... but the kind of waffling that never ends. :P Continually refining the plan ensure that the cost/benefit ratio is being maximized. :lol: I feel your pain.
I was thinking about a WRX today. Seems like a fun winter car, but it might get annoying to drive every day.
:oops:
You guys are my therapy. :) Anyhow, we're not considering the WRX. Just the base 2.5L 165hp models. They actually have better low-end torque than the WRX before the turbo spools up and use regular gas with much better efficiency.
Here's a follow-up waffle question. Assuming they cost the same, which would you rather have?
1) New Impreza wagon/9-2x (5MT)
2) Previous gen 4-cyl (same engine as impreza above) Outback (4AT) with no warranty
The older outback would be bigger (a pretty big plus), but also slower, worse financing options, and out of warranty.
Well, my wife was opposed to buying this car only to swap it a year or two later. So we decided to just wait and buy the Outback 3.0R at the end of the year.
:speechle:
Now we're wondering if we should go for a base Impreza wagon/saab 9-2X soon (within a couple of months) and drive that car (as just a 2nd car/winter car) unitl we have kids
Are you prepared to drive an Impreza or 9-2X for 5 years? 10 years?
Now we're wondering if we should go for a base Impreza wagon/saab 9-2X soon (within a couple of months) and drive that car (as just a 2nd car/winter car) unitl we have kids
Are you prepared to drive an Impreza or 9-2X for 5 years? 10 years?
Bonoboy, why are you so annoying? Why do you make it your mission to go after inconsequential ambiguities instead of just making simple assumptions?
The bottomline is that we want an inexpensive, versatile car until either we have kids or have plenty of money to replace such car with a better vehicle.
I love how you assume we wont have kids for 10 years. I'd like to hope that is a worst-case scenario. And if 3 years go by, we will get a better wagon no matter what.
So, no, I am not prepared to drive an impreza often for more than 3 years. But if it is my POS beater, sure, I could keep it for 10 years, why not? I've driven some true POS and never had a problem. A low mileage, 10-year-old Impreza would kick the crap out of any other car I've ever used short of my 190E 2.6 and my 330i.
But like I said, when the need comes for a better wagon, the Impreza would probably be sold in favor of a Mini.
Well, my wife was opposed to buying this car only to swap it a year or two later. So we decided to just wait and buy the Outback 3.0R at the end of the year.
:speechle:
Yes, believe it or not, my wife's opinion DOES count. After her comment, a discussion on the matter ensued, and we arrieved at a decision.
That is how decisions are made everywhere where people's opinions count. Someone brings up a point, it gets discussed and a decision is then made about it. Not familiar with this concept bonoboy?
:rolleyes:
And, no, I did not post the minutes of that discussion on the internet, so save yourself the troube of searching the www for them. :flipoff:
If the plan is to a) get a small, fuel efficient car, b) spend about 20K or less, and c) trade the car in when you have kids on a Family Truckster...
...get a Mini.
This car would eventually be traded for a Mini for my wife ....
Why not just skip all this wagon nonsense and go straight to the Mini. You are young have some F'n fun. :mad:
This car would eventually be traded for a Mini for my wife ....
Why not just skip all this wagon nonsense and go straight to the Mini. You are young have some F'n fun. :mad:
You guys are evil. :devcool:
The mini she wants is 26K. Granted, I hear her favorite color (electric blue) is discontinued after this year.
I HAVE thought about getting the Mini. I'll think about it some more.
Mbr,
Get what makes you happiest. If you buy something cheap and hate it, the value of the money saving is negated.
rumatt
05-13-2005, 08:51 AM
Why not just skip all this wagon nonsense and go straight to the Mini.
Just ask ff how fun Mini's are.
I'm surprised Alex hasn't suggested buying an extra red E30 for each family member.
Remind me again about the requirements for your second vehicle? If you're really going to sell it when you have kids, is the wagon part required?
I personally wouldn't like the idea about buying a car just as a short term filler. I prefer the idea that if I lend up liking the car, it can stay for a long time. Or, if it is truly temporary, want it to be at the bottom of the depreciation curve. So I would either a) buy a truly cheap used car that I could sell at any time without feeling guilty, or b) buy the car that I think has hope of serving a role for the next 5-7 years.
clyde
05-13-2005, 09:04 AM
Why not just skip all this wagon nonsense and go straight to the Mini.
Just ask ff how fun Mini's are.
No offense to ff, but if he wasn't having fun with the MINI, there's either something wrong with him or there was something wrong with his car. The fact that he bought it int he land of arrow straight and level roads could also have factored into it.
Remind me again about the requirements for your second vehicle? If you're really going to sell it when you have kids, is the wagon part required?
Although we ordered our wagon after my wife was pregnent, a Touring was on the list of possibilities long before she got herself knocked up. Even if she hadn't been in that condition at the time, I probably still would have bought it. Wagons are cool. And they are useful even without kids.
I personally wouldn't like the idea about buying a car just as a short term filler. I prefer the idea that if I lend up liking the car, it can stay for a long time. Or, if it is truly temporary, want it to be at the bottom of the depreciation curve. So I would either a) buy a truly cheap used car that I could sell at any time without feeling guilty, or b) buy the car that I think has hope of serving a role for the next 5-7 years.
I'm with you on this.
The mini she wants is 26K.
So look for one used. I don't see the sense in buying a new car unless you absolutely must have some option that can't be found on the used market.
Why not just skip all this wagon nonsense and go straight to the Mini.
Just ask ff how fun Mini's are.
I'm surprised Alex hasn't suggested buying an extra red E30 for each family member.
Remind me again about the requirements for your second vehicle? If you're really going to sell it when you have kids, is the wagon part required?
I personally wouldn't like the idea about buying a car just as a short term filler. I prefer the idea that if I lend up liking the car, it can stay for a long time. Or, if it is truly temporary, want it to be at the bottom of the depreciation curve. So I would either a) buy a truly cheap used car that I could sell at any time without feeling guilty, or b) buy the car that I think has hope of serving a role for the next 5-7 years.
Well, the huge advantage of the Mini is that she absolutely LOVES it (to her looks are 75% of a car) and we were planning on eventually buying one for her anyway. We would just ADD the wagon when the time comes.
There are really only 2 reasons for getting an impreza over the Mini. 1) Money (about an 8K difference), and 2) AWD. BUT, we would get an mini with an LSD and put dedicated winter tires, so I'm sure it would do fine.
The other advantage is that the impreza is not a flashy car and has a compliant suspension. I do realize that in terms of practicality the Impreza probably doesn't have much ona Mini.
Ok, enough said, I'll talk to my wife (who is sick at home today, and therefore stranded since I took the only car :rant: ).
rumatt
05-13-2005, 09:16 AM
Sounds lke a mini is a no brainer.
Compliant suspension be damned. Go with the heart.
rumatt
05-13-2005, 09:17 AM
Although.... has she ever driven one? My wife drove one and hated it. You might want to check on that before plunking down money. :P
Fuck it, we're getting a Mini. I talked to her and I want her to be happy. We're going to test-drive one tomorrow. :thumbup:
clyde
05-13-2005, 09:25 AM
Although.... has she ever driven one? My wife drove one and hated it. You might want to check on that before plunking down money. :P
But your wife married you. There's no acocunting for tatste
Why not just skip all this wagon nonsense and go straight to the Mini.
Just ask ff how fun Mini's are.
I'm surprised Alex hasn't suggested buying an extra red E30 for each family member.
Remind me again about the requirements for your second vehicle? If you're really going to sell it when you have kids, is the wagon part required?
I personally wouldn't like the idea about buying a car just as a short term filler. I prefer the idea that if I lend up liking the car, it can stay for a long time. Or, if it is truly temporary, want it to be at the bottom of the depreciation curve. So I would either a) buy a truly cheap used car that I could sell at any time without feeling guilty, or b) buy the car that I think has hope of serving a role for the next 5-7 years.
Well, the huge advantage of the Mini is that she absolutely LOVES it (to her looks are 75% of a car) and we were planning on eventually buying one for her anyway. We would just ADD the wagon when the time comes.
There are really only 2 reasons for getting an impreza over the Mini. 1) Money (about an 8K difference), and 2) AWD. BUT, we would get an mini with an LSD and put dedicated winter tires, so I'm sure it would do fine.
The other advantage is that the impreza is not a flashy car and has a compliant suspension. I do realize that in terms of practicality the Impreza probably doesn't have much ona Mini.
Ok, enough said, I'll talk to my wife (who is sick at home today, and therefore stranded since I took the only car :rant: ).
The Impreza is a useful car. In practical terms, as long as you have a 4 door as the other car, though, the Impreza is not much more practical than a Mini. The Mini, once you put down the seats, can carry bulky things. The Impreza, because of the racy angle of the backlight, has a smaller cargo compartment than you might otherwise think.
Just ask ff how fun Mini's are.
or ask me..or jpgurl...or ayn
:P
I love how you assume we wont have kids for 10 years. I'd like to hope that is a worst-case scenario.
We love your assumptions a lot more. ;)
And no, that's not the worst case scenario.
I love how you assume we wont have kids for 10 years. I'd like to hope that is a worst-case scenario.
We love your assumptions a lot more. ;)
And no, that's not the worst case scenario.
HOPE was the operative word. I am aware of the possibiliy of worse scenarios.
Just ask ff how fun Mini's are.
or ask me..or jpgurl...or ayn
:P
or me!
(How could you forget me :-( -- we've had our Mini longer thatn any of you -- on July 14, our Mini turns 3)
jpgurl
05-13-2005, 10:33 AM
or ask me..or jpgurl...or ayn
My mini was so fun that I regret getting rid of it, everyday. :sad:
And have been building the next mini online. :eeps:
sorry ZBB--
I was thinking of our little Austin MINI clan we had going there for a while.
(yeah, that's it :eeps: )
sorry ZBB--
bah, it's his fault for keeping a car for so long around here. You surely thought he'd replaced it by now. :P
sorry ZBB--
bah, it's his fault for keeping a car for so long around here. You surely thought he'd replaced it by now. :P
:lol:
Just ask ff how fun Mini's are.
or ask me..or jpgurl...or ayn
:P
or me!
(How could you forget me :-( -- we've had our Mini longer thatn any of you -- on July 14, our Mini turns 3)
Or me. I didn't have it for that long, but it was always a blast to drive. I don't think I would buy used unless the resale has come down though. I traded mine and got $500 less than sticker. They have to sell that car at more than sticker to make a profit. At that cost, I would just buy a new one.
mbr, your wagon plan never made sense to me, so I would vote for the MINI plan. Plus, making your wife happy will pay off in the long run.
Oh, and I suspect bonoboy wasn't doing anything but point out, in a cryptic way, based on his experience, that you can't always plan when you will have kids come into the picture. It's a valid point when you are making car buying plans based on an event that may or may not happen on schedule.
sorry ZBB--
bah, it's his fault for keeping a car for so long around here. You surely thought he'd replaced it by now. :P
um... we've started having discussions about that :rolleyes:
My wife isn't to waffling stage yet, and she's decided to wait until at least next fall. But she's torn -- does she replace it with a Mini cabriolet, or does she get an SUV (i know... big swing).
rumatt
05-13-2005, 02:43 PM
But your wife married you. There's no acocunting for tatste
Good point. :P
But remember, MBR's wife married him. :lol:
This is the Mini she wants (with some input from me):
Base Cooper S: 20400
Dest & Handling: 550
Electric Blue: 420
Sport Package: 1350
Cold Weather Pkg: 300
LSD: 500
Armrest: 200
Anthracite Headliner: 200
Chrono pkg (incl OBC): 300
Rear Fog lamp: 100
Total: 24320
Plus floor mats and driving lights.
Melissa
05-13-2005, 05:19 PM
Armrest: 200
:? You have to pay for the armrest?
Roadstergal
05-13-2005, 05:45 PM
Armrest: 200
:? You have to pay for the armrest?
You should see what they charge for a windshield.
Armrest: 200
:? You have to pay for the armrest?
At least its an option now... When we got our '02 MINI, it wasn't even avail. Lack of a center arm rest is one of the few things I dislike about driving the MINI...
Armrest: 200
:? You have to pay for the armrest?
Since it costs an arm and a leg, you really don't need it.
Armrest: 200
:? You have to pay for the armrest?
Since it costs an arm and a leg, you really don't need it.
This was one of those where she chose it but I wouldn't have.
.................................................. ........................
Anyhow, turns out my wife is the root of all my/our wagon waffling. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Now she tells me it's silly to buy that car right now. That if I am doing it for her (and clearly I am since I'd never buy the Mini for myself), not to do it. She says she would like a used one later, when we can swing one just as a toy for her.
Now, truth be told (and I have mentioned this here a lot), she would not drive it enough to make it worth the premium. I certainly do not want the Mini. I prefer my car. In the end, she just isn't a car person. She never asks to drive the 330i (fine with me). She just finds the Mini cute. And for all its glory, I'd rather drive my 330i given the choice, so it makes little sense, I guess.
So it seems we're back to the original waffling. :rolleyes:
*Let me just add that in addition, I am not happy about the fact that unanimously (per local Mini owners), the closest Mini dealer (20+ miles) is to be avoided like the plague, and the others are over an hour away. Also, we're looking at at least MSRP and no special financing of any kind. In contrast, the subaru dealer is 5 minutes away (literally next to the BMW dealership).
Still, none of this changes the fact that we need a 2nd car, and a cheap and reasonably practical one. The wait, and the waffling continues.
But I am clearing my record as a waffler on the wagon issue. SHE is the waffler. :mad:
I just want to let everyone know that we DO appreciate the comments and advice. :oops: :)
If any of the choices you have thought about so far were the right choice, you would have bought the car by now. Buy a five year old Civic. It won't cost anything to run, it won't break down, it won't cost anything to buy, and you won't be out much money when you dump it for whatever you decide to get after you have the first kid. You might want to get a two door so you can appreciate how much you will want four doors when you really need the back seat.
If any of the choices you have thought about so far were the right choice, you would have bought the car by now. Buy a five year old Civic. It won't cost anything to run, it won't break down, it won't cost anything to buy, and you won't be out much money when you dump it for whatever you decide to get after you have the first kid. You might want to get a two door so you can appreciate how much you will want four doors when you really need the back seat.
Actually, any subaru would be a good choice, we just haven't bought one because were trying not to spend money on something "we don't need."
But the wait without a car stops by Thanksgiving of this year, no matter what. The reason we want a wagon (small or big) is that we have had to borrow my mom's XC70 or my dad's F-150 MANY times. Now, some times, it was for things only a full-size pick-up could handle, but most could have been solved with an impreza.
buy a 2 year old Accord for her
:dunno:
buy a 2 year old Accord for her
:dunno:
That's not a bad idea. In fact, back in Feb, when my Benz was about to be sold, along with looking at old MB's I did look at older Camry and Accord wagons.
But (I dunno if I mentioned it here) my wife had a terrifying car crash in the snow and she'd rather have AWD. And to me, Subaru's are basically AWD hondas. That is why picking up an older outback/legacy for under 10K IS an option. But if for not much more money we can get a new car with warranty, then why not?
But (I dunno if I mentioned it here) my wife had a terrifying car crash in the snow and she'd rather have AWD.
What kind of crash was it that AWD would have helped?
AWD is great to get you moving in the snow but it certainly doesn't help you stop...and when the front and rear ends break traction it can be quite a handful unless you enjoy 4wheel drifts.
rumatt
05-13-2005, 11:27 PM
What kind of crash was it that AWD would have helped?
AWD is great to get you moving in the snow but it certainly doesn't help you stop...and when the front and rear ends break traction it can be quite a handful unless you enjoy 4wheel drifts.
What he said.
If she's worried about crashing, AWD will only make it worse. If she's worried about getting stuck, then that's different.
What kind of crash was it that AWD would have helped?
AWD is great to get you moving in the snow but it certainly doesn't help you stop...and when the front and rear ends break traction it can be quite a handful unless you enjoy 4wheel drifts.
What he said.
If she's worried about crashing, AWD will only make it worse. If she's worried about getting stuck, then that's different.
You don't think I've explained this to her? It is a matter of peace of mind to her. Plus it is not like it's a bad thing to have AWD.
The accident (I wasn't there) involved the car spinning out. The car lost control and spun into the opposite lane where it was struck by an 18-wheeler. Miraculously, it just clipped the rear right quarter. The car was in the shop for over a month.
lip277
05-14-2005, 10:13 AM
What kind of crash was it that AWD would have helped?
AWD is great to get you moving in the snow but it certainly doesn't help you stop...and when the front and rear ends break traction it can be quite a handful unless you enjoy 4wheel drifts.
What he said.
If she's worried about crashing, AWD will only make it worse. If she's worried about getting stuck, then that's different.
You don't think I've explained this to her? It is a matter of peace of mind to her. Plus it is not like it's a bad thing to have AWD.
The accident (I wasn't there) involved the car spinning out. The car lost control and spun into the opposite lane where it was struck by an 18-wheeler. Miraculously, it just clipped the rear right quarter. The car was in the shop for over a month.
So get her the Accord and tell her it's the new AWD model.....
:)
But seriuosly - My wife REFUSED to drive our Explorer at first because it was just too big (yeah - I know...) After a couple of months she started getting used to it and a while later I couldn't get the keys out of her hand.
It's all a matter of patience.
Now she doesn't want to give up her 420SEL. She claims the Yukon is too big. Well, actually the Merdedes is 4" longer than the GMC. I tell her that over and over and even need park the Mercedes in the largest garage stall we have. But - We'll get there one of these days..... :lol:
Good luck-
Roadstergal
05-14-2005, 08:41 PM
Drive wheels make far less difference than tires and skill in snow, ice, and rain.
Melissa
05-14-2005, 09:45 PM
Armrest: 200
:? You have to pay for the armrest?
Since it costs an arm and a leg, you really don't need it.
:P *snort* :P
Well, the decision has almost been made.
In all likelyhood we're getting an Impreza Outback Sport (with the Ldt Ed pkg). It will cost only 18K, has a pretty good warranty, and it can get serviced (if needed) close to home.
The only other possiblity is an absolutely stripped Forester X since it would cost less than $1K more and it is a bit roomier, but we don't think we'll like it.
Test drove the OBS again (my wife did also), and I came away a bit happier than last time. The engine is loud and unrefined, but I still liked it better than a Civic. Handling is surprisingly good, though I did not push it hard. This car feels very light. Taking off from a dead stop is great due to the AWD. My wife dropped the clucth a bit by mistake and the thing just grabbed and took off with no wheel spin (this is on shitty Potenza RE92's). The permanent 50/50 F/R power split is nice. It obviously didn't feel like a FWD car.
All that said, it is very apparent that it is a small, cheap car, but a very functional one. My wife liked it a lot. She loves that she wont have to "care" about where she parks it, where we go, bending a rim, etc. The concept of two flashy cars annoyed my wife too (red 330i and electric Blue Mini).
The gas pedal was not very smooth in travel and the clutch extremely light, but I got the hang of it quickly. The engine so far is mildly dissapointing, but with 3 miles on the odo, I didn't push it at all.
The car is everything it promises to be on paper, but doesn't make you go "Wow!" at all. I expect many trouble-free miles and very cheap operating costs. I am certain someone in my family would take this car off my hands in a heartbeat for a decent price if I ever sell it.
So, it is the boring, but cheapest and most sensible purchase in our opinion. A good appliance when needed, and glad I wont have to drive it very often.
We'll probably get it by the end of the month.
Here are pictures of an identical car to the one we'll get.
<img src=http://members.roadfly.org/mjs1/DSCN4024.JPG>
<img src=http://members.roadfly.org/mjs1/DSCN4027.JPG>
<img src=http://members.roadfly.org/mjs1/DSCN4029.JPG>
Well, the decision has almost been made.
In all likelyhood we're getting an Impreza Outback Sport (with the Ldt Ed pkg). It will cost only 18K, has a pretty good warranty, and it can get serviced (if needed) close to home.
The only other possiblity is an absolutely stripped Forester X since it would cost less than $1K more and it is a bit roomier, but we don't think we'll like it.
Test drove the OBS again (my wife did also), and I came away a bit happier than last time. The engine is loud and unrefined, but I still liked it better than a Civic. Handling is surprisingly good, though I did not push it hard. This car feels very light. Taking off from a dead stop is great due to the AWD. My wife dropped the clucth a bit by mistake and the thing just grabbed and took off with no wheel spin (this is on shitty Potenza RE92's). The permanent 50/50 F/R power split is nice. It obviously didn't feel like a FWD car.
All that said, it is very apparent that it is a small, cheap car, but a very functional one. My wife liked it a lot. She loves that she wont have to "care" about where she parks it, where we go, bending a rim, etc. The concept of two flashy cars annoyed my wife too (red 330i and electric Blue Mini).
The gas pedal was not very smooth in travel and the clutch extremely light, but I got the hang of it quickly. The engine so far is mildly dissapointing, but with 3 miles on the odo, I didn't push it at all.
The car is everything it promises to be on paper, but doesn't make you go "Wow!" at all. I expect many trouble-free miles and very cheap operating costs. I am certain someone in my family would take this car off my hands in a heartbeat for a decent price if I ever sell it.
So, it is the boring, but cheapest and most sensible purchase in our opinion. A good appliance when needed, and glad I wont have to drive it very often.
We'll probably get it by the end of the month.
Here are pictures of an identical car to the one we'll get.
<img src=http://members.roadfly.org/mjs1/DSCN4024.JPG>
<img src=http://members.roadfly.org/mjs1/DSCN4027.JPG>
<img src=http://members.roadfly.org/mjs1/DSCN4029.JPG>
Ugh.
I understand the constraints on your decision, but if you are not going to get a turbo Subaru, why get a Subaru at all?
IMHO, a Mazda 3 hatch or even a Focus ZX5 is a better choice than a base-engined Impreza. Both will give you nearly the same room. I like the WRX, but without the good engine it's a car I'd never buy.
Also, if you are committed to the AWD route, have you checked out the Saabaru deals?
Ugh.
I understand the constraints on your decision, but if you are not going to get a turbo Subaru, why get a Subaru at all?
IMHO, a Mazda 3 hatch or even a Focus ZX5 is a better choice than a base-engined Impreza. Both will give you nearly the same room. I like the WRX, but without the good engine it's a car I'd never buy.
They are FWD, primarily. If it weren't a requirement, I would not even consider the Impreza at all. We can talk all day long about driven wheels (and I'd agree with you), but she wants an AWD car. My wife did not like the Mazda 3 at all. She did not even want to test drive it. I may force her to anyway, just to be sure.
My best friend has a WRX and while he does love it (lives in DE - the guy who is getting married in Philly in July), he says there are things to watch out for and basically said that in my position he would not get the WRX.
The two main things he pointed out are insurance cost and premium fuel. His rates keep going up. Also, he says the car is tremendously underwhelming before the turbo kicks in. He seems to be in that rpm range enough for it to affect him. Remember, I might enjoy it, but my wife drive my 330i at under 2K rpm, so she is bound to not use the turbo much.
Finally, he says I already have a fun car, so why pay a premium for a secondary car. This is true. My wife will drive this car much more than I will. Also, the base 2.5 engine is damn near bullet-proof, and with decent low-end torque. Finally, for reasons I can't entirely understand, resale seems to be insanely high on this car (supply may be the biggest).
Also, if you are committed to the AWD route, have you checked out the Saabaru deals?
Not yet. But I will. This is the only car that may sway us. I do like the winter package and the longer warranty.
EDIT: The local dealer has 9-2X Linears with MSRP's of over 25K. I don't see them handing me a 7K discount. But, I will still go check them out. Maybe a totally loaded Linear for 20 isn't so bad. They have nicer equipment and options.
rumatt
05-16-2005, 11:14 AM
If the car was primarily as a winter beater, or a car for the wife (and she happened to love it for some reason) I can definitely see skipping the turbo. No point.
clyde
05-16-2005, 11:18 AM
just buy a couple dogs and a sleigh
when you get good at it, you can run the Iditarod
Ugh.
I understand the constraints on your decision, but if you are not going to get a turbo Subaru, why get a Subaru at all?
IMHO, a Mazda 3 hatch or even a Focus ZX5 is a better choice than a base-engined Impreza. Both will give you nearly the same room. I like the WRX, but without the good engine it's a car I'd never buy.
They are FWD, primarily. If it weren't a requirement, I would not even consider the Impreza at all. We can talk all day long about driven wheels (and I'd agree with you), but she wants an AWD car. My wife did not like the Mazda 3 at all. She did not even want to test drive it. I may force her to anyway, just to be sure.
My best friend has a WRX and while he does love it (lives in DE - the guy who is getting married in Philly in July), he says there are things to watch out for and basically said that in my position he would not get the WRX.
The two main things he pointed out are insurance cost and premium fuel. His rates keep going up. Also, he says the car is tremendously underwhelming before the turbo kicks in. He seems to be in that rpm range enough for it to affect him. Remember, I might enjoy it, but my wife drive my 330i at under 2K rpm, so she is bound to not use the turbo much.
Finally, he says I already have a fun car, so why pay a premium for a secondary car. This is true. My wife will drive this car much more than I will. Also, the base 2.5 engine is damn near bullet-proof, and with decent low-end torque. Finally, for reasons I can't entirely understand, resale seems to be insanely high on this car (supply may be the biggest).
Also, if you are committed to the AWD route, have you checked out the Saabaru deals?
Not yet. But I will. This is the only car that may sway us. I do like the winter package and the longer warranty.
EDIT: The local dealer has 9-2X Linears with MSRP's of over 25K. I don't see them handing me a 7K discount. But, I will still go check them out. Maybe a totally loaded Linear for 20 isn't so bad. They have nicer equipment and options.
Your friend is correct--insurance on these cars is stupid expensive, and the turbo lag is fiendish. I've been buying premium gas for so long I don't notice the cost, but I guess it would be nice to not have to. Still and all, the engine is the only thing that makes this car interesting. Without the engine, it's just another cheap Japanese 5 door.
If AWD is an absolute requirement and 20ish K is what you want to spend, however, the base 9-2/Impreza are about the only options.
Your friend is correct--insurance on these cars is stupid expensive, and the turbo lag is fiendish. I've been buying premium gas for so long I don't notice the cost, but I guess it would be nice to not have to. Still and all, the engine is the only thing that makes this car interesting. Without the engine, it's just another cheap Japanese 5 door.
If AWD is an absolute requirement and 20ish K is what you want to spend, however, the base 9-2/Impreza are about the only options.
I saw a dealer in Boston has a "$7K off any Aero in stock!" deal. I wonder what the deals are on linears. An aero can be over 30K, so that deal still makes it 5-6K more than the OBS. It seems most Saabarus are slushies though. And in that car, with either engine, slushie=no sale.
Nick M3
05-16-2005, 11:29 AM
Your friend is correct--insurance on these cars is stupid expensive, and the turbo lag is fiendish. I've been buying premium gas for so long I don't notice the cost, but I guess it would be nice to not have to. Still and all, the engine is the only thing that makes this car interesting. Without the engine, it's just another cheap Japanese 5 door.
If AWD is an absolute requirement and 20ish K is what you want to spend, however, the base 9-2/Impreza are about the only options.
I saw a dealer in Boston has a "$7K off any Aero in stock!" deal. I wonder what the deals are on linears. An aero can be over 30K, so that deal still makes it 5-6K more than the OBS. It seems most Saabarus are slushies though. And in that car, with either engine, slushie=no sale.
Much as it pains me to say this, are you sure you aren't forcing your wife into a manual she doesn't want? Given that it's her car, there might be some value in not havign to listen to her bitch abotu it...
Much as it pains me to say this, are you sure you aren't forcing your wife into a manual she doesn't want? Given that it's her car, there might be some value in not havign to listen to her bitch abotu it...
Wise beyond his age this young one is.
BahnBaum
05-16-2005, 12:03 PM
Much as it pains me to say this, are you sure you aren't forcing your wife into a manual she doesn't want? Given that it's her car, there might be some value in not havign to listen to her bitch abotu it...
Wise beyond his age this young one is.
Right, Yoda.
Alex
Much as it pains me to say this, are you sure you aren't forcing your wife into a manual she doesn't want? Given that it's her car, there might be some value in not havign to listen to her bitch abotu it...
Wise beyond his age this young one is.
Right, Yoda.
Alex
She wants the manual. She drove a manual Beetle when I met her, so she is not against it and felt the engine was too weak to have an automatic. On the 3.0R, that was not a problem, so she liked the slushie. But the biggest reason for the slushie was that she didn't want to shift on her own with kids in the car.
Also, it seems in slushie form (not a great auto-tranny), this car uses up a lot more fuel.
Insurance quotes:
2005 Impreza Outback Sport: $1400
2005 Saab 9-2X Linear: $1565
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero: $1775
I believe I pay ~$1800 for the 330i.
Called a Saab dealer.
Basically, I can get a base Linear model with the cold weather pkg for 18K (same as the OBS).
And for another 2500 ($20,500 total) we can get it with the Premium package that inlcudes a great audio upgrade, CD changer, leather and Xenons.
I am tempted to go with the loaded 9-2X Linear.
Called a Saab dealer.
Basically, I can get a base Linear model with the cold weather pkg for 18K (same as the OBS).
And for another 2500 ($20,500 total) we can get it with the Premium package that inlcudes a great audio upgrade, CD changer, leather and Xenons.
I am tempted to go with the loaded 9-2X Linear.
Lease it.
A) Resale will suck and be difficult, especially if you get a stick.
B) The lease terms with that kind of discount off the cap cost should be really spectacular.
Called a Saab dealer.
Basically, I can get a base Linear model with the cold weather pkg for 18K (same as the OBS).
And for another 2500 ($20,500 total) we can get it with the Premium package that inlcudes a great audio upgrade, CD changer, leather and Xenons.
I am tempted to go with the loaded 9-2X Linear.
Lease it.
A) Resale will suck and be difficult, especially if you get a stick.
B) The lease terms with that kind of discount off the cap cost should be really spectacular.
Good points. Thanks. :thumbup:
My wife will have a late night tonight, but I will swing by the dealer tomorrow night with her and see what they can do.
The guy I called was only offering me $207 off beyond the incentives (granted with no haggling). It seems up to $800 off beyond incentives is doable. I have not yet spoken to the local dealer (3 miles away). Neither dealer has the car in stock, so I can haggle with them and talk about the lease rates.
If we lease, and end up loving the car at lease end, the residual cannot be that high. Plus the montly payments ought to be much lower... always a good thing.
rumatt
05-16-2005, 06:20 PM
And for another 2500 ($20,500 total) we can get it with the Premium package that inlcudes a great audio upgrade, CD changer, leather and Xenons.
I thought this was a rarely driven "beater".
And for another 2500 ($20,500 total) we can get it with the Premium package that inlcudes a great audio upgrade, CD changer, leather and Xenons.
I thought this was a rarely driven "beater".
No. It will be rarely driven by ME. It will be driven often (but not daily) by my wife. But it will be the designated road-trip car. And a nice stereo is a good thing along with good lighting.
The ONE thing my wife hated about the 9-2X when we saw it a couple of weeks back was the cloth seats. Subaru's cloth seems better. Maybe it was the (very) light section of the Saab's cloth that made the it look cheap. It just seems like thinner cloth. Maybe they thought it looked refined. Who knows? I expect the leather to fix that.
why would a cheap-ass saabaru be the designated road trip car when you have a $35K+ BMW in the garage?
why would a cheap-ass saabaru be the designated road trip car when you have a $35K+ BMW in the garage?
Cargo space, insanely high mileage on my 330i, AWD once in Canada, lower fuel costs. My 330i is not nearly as fun on the highway as it is on my daily commute. Driving on the open highway at a constant speed is the same amount of fun no matter what car you are in.
I also got a ticket for having a flashy red BMW in the backwoods of VT.
I've put 12K miles in less than 6 months on BMW. If i can save it the routine trips to Canada I will.
Cargo space, insanely high mileage on my 330i, AWD once in Canada, lower fuel costs. My 330i is not nearly as fun on the highway as it is on my daily commute. Driving on the open highway at a constant speed is the same amount of fun no matter what car you are in.
I also got a ticket for having a flashy red BMW in the backwoods of VT.
I've put 12K miles in less than 6 months on BMW. If i can save it the routine trips to Canada I will.
How much cargo are you hauling on road trips that you couldn't take in a 330 with only 2 people?
Do you really think cruising at 90 in a corrolla would be as much fun as in a 330? I can't imagine that the saabaru would be as comfortable as the 330 would.
And which particualr vehicle code did you break for having a flashy red BMW? :P
killerdeck
05-16-2005, 08:13 PM
Insurance quotes:
2005 Impreza Outback Sport: $1400
2005 Saab 9-2X Linear: $1565
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero: $1775
I believe I pay ~$1800 for the 330i.
Yikes! All of those seem high. Im really appreciating my $800 a year for the 330i. Have you thought about changing insurance to see what they would offer? My buddy just switched when he got a new truck and they offered him a "new vehicle" discount (?). This may just be a discount because he is a new customer at State Farm. Just some thoughts if your interested.
rumatt
05-16-2005, 08:26 PM
My 330i is not nearly as fun on the highway as it is on my daily commute.
I think the 330 is actually at its best on the highway. At lower speeds it's kind of annoying.
A perfectly straight road with the cruise control on? OK, maybe it's overkill. But if you're driving the proper speed, there should be traffic in your way that you need to weave in and out of. :twisted:
But if you're driving the proper speed, there should be traffic in your way that you need to weave in and out of. :twisted:
Not in northern NH, VT and PQ.
I love the 330i when I take the highway to work. I go against the heavy Boston-bound traffic, but there is still enough volume to keep it exciting. Not going to Canada though. All that happens is the temptation to go VERY fast. :eeps: Like, Autobahn fast. And often I indulge. :eeps:
Insurance quotes:
2005 Impreza Outback Sport: $1400
2005 Saab 9-2X Linear: $1565
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero: $1775
I believe I pay ~$1800 for the 330i.
Yikes! All of those seem high. Im really appreciating my $800 a year for the 330i. Have you thought about changing insurance to see what they would offer? My buddy just switched when he got a new truck and they offered him a "new vehicle" discount (?). This may just be a discount because he is a new customer at State Farm. Just some thoughts if your interested.
My recent ticket is surely to blame. In December ('05), my previous ticket will clear, and bring this down by 14%. My wife's accident will clear Dec of 2006, and that should bring the other car down by 35%.
How much cargo are you hauling on road trips that you couldn't take in a 330 with only 2 people?
Do you really think cruising at 90 in a corrolla would be as much fun as in a 330? I can't imagine that the saabaru would be as comfortable as the 330 would.
And which particualr vehicle code did you break for having a flashy red BMW? :P
You'd be amazed how much gets hauled back and forth by my wife. :rolleyes:
Of course the 330i is better, but I don't get enough fun or benefit out of it to warrant adding so many mundane miles to an already heavily-driven car that I want to keep for 4 more years, vs driving a more utilitarian car.
Insurance quotes:
2005 Impreza Outback Sport: $1400
2005 Saab 9-2X Linear: $1565
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero: $1775
I believe I pay ~$1800 for the 330i.
Every 6 months? Or a year? Even per year...ouch. I was paying something like $960/year for the 330i.
Do you have your auto insurance through the same company that you have homeowner's insurance through?
Insurance quotes:
2005 Impreza Outback Sport: $1400
2005 Saab 9-2X Linear: $1565
2005 Saab 9-2X Aero: $1775
I believe I pay ~$1800 for the 330i.
Every 6 months? Or a year? Even per year...ouch. I was paying something like $960/year for the 330i.
Do you have your auto insurance through the same company that you have homeowner's insurance through?
Per year. And yes, they cover home & auto, and we get pretty good discounts. I only pay about $700 a year for my home insurance.
I have 100/300 coverage with a $500 deductible.
lemming
05-31-2005, 11:54 PM
which saab dealer did you use, MBR?
just curious.
i hate saab dealers, especially the ones in new england.
which saab dealer did you use, MBR?
just curious.
i hate saab dealers, especially the ones in new england.
I don't blame you.
I ended up with Framingham Saab, but frankly not too impressed. The one right near my house reeks of scum (Central Saab-long story). Called Charles River Saab and the guy I talked to wasn't very cooperative. The GMS pricing I got was $200 dollars higher than it should have been. :? So I smelled a stench there too. Framingham at least gave me the correct GMS pricing and threw in rubber floormats. The guy got a sale in 2 minutes flat.
Honestly, how difficult is it to just give me the honest GMS pricing? It's off a freakin' list, dammit! Anyhow, at that point I just wanted the damn car.
Of course, it showed up 2 days after promised, and with a 4" clearcoat scratch, and missing the spare tire cover tray thingie, and no rubber floormats, and a stain on the visor. They promised to take care of everything. Whatever. :rolleyes: They better! :mad:
So, I used Framingham Saab, but I wouldn't necessarily recommend them.
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