New style 5 or old?

[Rob]

About 6 months ago, my dad bought a Seville. He was going to get an E500 Merc, but they wouldn't give him what he wanted for his Yukon trade in. So he got the $3,000 for the Yukon from Cadillac and lost $20k in residual value when he drove it off the lot. I am not sure why the detour to the Cadillac dealer resulted in a car before he negotiated for a 5.

Anyway, they are busy tearing the engine apart to figure out why it vibrates at the dealer. My dad (sucessfully retired with a bad car habit) doesn't think the car is new anymore, so he might use this as an excuse to get what he really wants. It seems after its all said and done, what he wants is a 5 series.

So he called me up over the weekend and asked whether he was better off with a new one or an old one. Cost and resale value don't seem to be critical issues. He likes the styling of the older version better. He likes the idea of the technology contained in the new one better. I am having a tough time coming up with advice b/c he doesn't seem to care a great deal about the distinguishing features between the two. He hasn't driven a new version yet - that might make all the difference in the world. Then again, it might not. We are going on Saturday.

Any ideas?

[Masskrug]

About 6 months ago, my dad bought a Seville. He was going to get an E500 Merc, but they wouldn't give him what he wanted for his Yukon trade in. So he got the $3,000 for the Yukon from Cadillac and lost $20k in residual value when he drove it off the lot. I am not sure why the detour to the Cadillac dealer resulted in a car before he negotiated for a 5.

Anyway, they are busy tearing the engine apart to figure out why it vibrates at the dealer. My dad (sucessfully retired with a bad car habit) doesn't think the car is new anymore, so he might use this as an excuse to get what he really wants. It seems after its all said and done, what he wants is a 5 series.

So he called me up over the weekend and asked whether he was better off with a new one or an old one. Cost and resale value don't seem to be critical issues. He likes the styling of the older version better. He likes the idea of the technology contained in the new one better. I am having a tough time coming up with advice b/c he doesn't seem to care a great deal about the distinguishing features between the two. He hasn't driven a new version yet - that might make all the difference in the world. Then again, it might not. We are going on Saturday.

Any ideas?

I'd be a little concerned about the "bugs" of a first year BMW model. I bought one of the first E46's and had a nightmare with recalls and warranty work. Unless your dad doesn't care about these things, if he wants a new 5er, at least wait until next year.

[The HACK]

I'd be a little concerned about the "bugs" of a first year BMW model. I bought one of the first E46's and had a nightmare with recalls and warranty work. Unless your dad doesn't care about these things, if he wants a new 5er, at least wait until next year.

Actually, besides Active Steering everything on the E60 is TRIED AND TRUE...

But I agree, the E46 when it first came out had a lot of minor problems. So did the E65. I do not doubt he'll see the local service department a few times before the year is over.

Although I like the new E60 a lot, I would not purchase a first year run of any BMW model (unless it's like the coupe, where it's first year run was already the 2nd year of the E46 body style).

[Rob]

Thanks for pointing out the obvious, guys. Somtimes, you overlook the most basic of considerations . . .

Hack, I wouldn't limit that statement to "first model year bmws." It's all cars. BMW at least makes adjustments to the process on the fly. American car companies seem to wait for the second model year.

[lemming]

the other thing is allocation. isn't it generally true that they're pushing the 530s in numbers right now, and then the 525 and 545?

the car you father would want is the 545 and there isn't really a way to drive one of those readily right now, is there?

i'd wait until the 5 series, which is BMW's flagship for profits, starts shipping in numbers in all of its variations, let alone deal with first year bugs, just so you may (or NOT) have some added flexibility in getting the configuration he wants.

[Rob]

the other thing is allocation. isn't it generally true that they're pushing the 530s in numbers right now, and then the 525 and 545?

the car you father would want is the 545 and there isn't really a way to drive one of those readily right now, is there?

i'd wait until the 5 series, which is BMW's flagship for profits, starts shipping in numbers in all of its variations, let alone deal with first year bugs, just so you may (or NOT) have some added flexibility in getting the configuration he wants.

I suspect he would order it and just wait as long as it took. It's not like he's driving a junk atm. The loaner car is still a nice big cushy Cadillac. When he gets his car back, he won't have to suffer by driving it.

But he seems to be interested in the 530. A salesman convinced him the 530 was better than the 540 when he looked a couple years ago b/c it was balanced better and that thought has carried over. The right 540 might be his best bet if he doesn't want to wait a year.

[lemming]

the other thing is allocation. isn't it generally true that they're pushing the 530s in numbers right now, and then the 525 and 545?

the car you father would want is the 545 and there isn't really a way to drive one of those readily right now, is there?

i'd wait until the 5 series, which is BMW's flagship for profits, starts shipping in numbers in all of its variations, let alone deal with first year bugs, just so you may (or NOT) have some added flexibility in getting the configuration he wants.

I suspect he would order it and just wait as long as it took. It's not like he's driving a junk atm. The loaner car is still a nice big cushy Cadillac. When he gets his car back, he won't have to suffer by driving it.

But he seems to be interested in the 530. A salesman convinced him the 530 was better than the 540 when he looked a couple years ago b/c it was balanced better and that thought has carried over. The right 540 might be his best bet if he doesn't want to wait a year.

that might have been true about the E39, but with the E60, all of the models have the same steering and the car is lighter, so that argument kind of is specific to the e39. i think that while the looks of the e39 are preferable, dynamically, the e60 would have likely surpassed the e39 on the road and on the track.

the e60 is growing on me.

(wouldn't ever buy one for me-self, though).

[SARAFIL]

Thus far, the E60 has had an eventless launch. We haven't had cases of cars yelling at the owner in French, spitting out keys, rolling away in a parking lot, freezing like any other Windows product, or just refusing to run. Some of you might suggest that it hasn't been out long enough. To this, I say bull. I was working in the service department at the dealer when the E65 first came out, and I can say that from day one they had a number of problems with the car. Also, a that point, a normal service visit was remedied by a week-long complete system reboot per BMW's orders. BMW has done a great job fixing the problems with the E65, and now I have no reservation in saying that it is just as reliable as any other BMW.

The E60 has been out for over a month now, and it's launch has seen no drama. We've had a few in for some minor issues-- airbag light on b/c of a bad occupancy sensor in the seat, bad radio reception, etc.-- nothing that couldn't be fixed in one visit and nothing that made the car unsafe to drive. Think what you want. I appears that the E60 has done well thus far at the expense of early E65 buyers, who were the ultimate guinea pigs.

[SARAFIL]

the other thing is allocation. isn't it generally true that they're pushing the 530s in numbers right now, and then the 525 and 545?

the car you father would want is the 545 and there isn't really a way to drive one of those readily right now, is there?

Not entirely true. The allocations of 525s is more or less similar to 530s. Also, the waiting lists for 525s are virtually non existant. If you want to get a 525, you can get one immediately (they're in stock). 530s are still selling quite well, and you aren't likely to find more than a few in stock at any time. 545s are sold out well in to the future. We've filled all our December allocations with initial orders, and we still have enough to probably fill up our January and February allocations. You won't see one available on our lot until late next spring, at this rate.

[Rob]

Sarafil, thanks. That's good to know, even if not conclusive yet. Sometimes first year bugs don't show up right away though. For example, I am sure it was more than a month after release when they decided they had to redesign the control arms on the '01 330i.

The 545 lead time is a bit depressing, but we have access to Crevier and Irvine. Maybe one of those two high volume dealers will have a shorter wait time.

[lemming]

the other thing is allocation. isn't it generally true that they're pushing the 530s in numbers right now, and then the 525 and 545?

the car you father would want is the 545 and there isn't really a way to drive one of those readily right now, is there?

Not entirely true. The allocations of 525s is more or less similar to 530s. Also, the waiting lists for 525s are virtually non existant. If you want to get a 525, you can get one immediately (they're in stock). 530s are still selling quite well, and you aren't likely to find more than a few in stock at any time. 545s are sold out well in to the future. We've filled all our December allocations with initial orders, and we still have enough to probably fill up our January and February allocations. You won't see one available on our lot until late next spring, at this rate.

gosh, i sure know a lot of people interested in a 525. :lol:

it's good that they bread 'n butter 530 is widely available, though. one had to figure that the 545 was pretty much eaten up and ordered cars would backlog everything so it'd be a loooooooooooong wait to actually drive one at the dealer.

i'm thinkin' like there's never a rush to buy a car and that the 545 is going to kick enough a$$ to make the wait worth it. enjoy the STS until then........maybe the all new RWD STS coming soon will be a better 5 series competitor.

[SARAFIL]

the 545 is going to kick enough a$$ to make the wait worth it

Apparently someone read that post the wrong way, and though it said "kick the 545 in the ass". Our first unit was delivered last Thursday, and was rear ended and likely totalled the next day. :( I'll bet ya that guy isn't happy. Our second one is still alive and kicking, AFAIK.

Too bad about that first one, it was a beauty-- Black Sapphire/Tan, SP with 6 speed, Premium Sound Pack and Cold Weather Pack. :cry:

[lemming]

the 545 is going to kick enough a$$ to make the wait worth it

Apparently someone read that post the wrong way, and though it said "kick the 545 in the ass". Our first unit was delivered last Thursday, and was rear ended and likely totalled the next day. :( I'll bet ya that guy isn't happy. Our second one is still alive and kicking, AFAIK.

Too bad about that first one, it was a beauty-- Black Sapphire/Tan, SP with 6 speed, Premium Sound Pack and Cold Weather Pack. :cry:

starting to see a lot of 530s on the road. SO much better than the e65. i think i like this car. if they were able to do a decent upgrade to the e60, i have a lot more faith in the e90.

but, the most important thing i'd like to say is that increasing usage of aluminum by BMW really impresses me. i know 'everyone else' is doing it, but audi and mb still make tanks. that BMW is still in tune with curb weight is going to keep me around for awhile.