GMW - 370iS

[Roadstergal]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

[Jason C]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/images/smilies/sleep1.gif

[Roadstergal]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/images/smilies/sleep1.gif

That's my reaction, too, but it's a popular view.

[clyde]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

http://www.bmwpugetsound.com/vbb/images/smilies/sleep1.gif

That's my reaction, too, but it's a popular view.

If it was popular you wouldn't have anything to do with it other than ridicule it. :twisted:

[Roadstergal]

You got it! :P But the subjunctive is 'if it were.' :action:

But shouldn't that be "since it is?" :eeps:

[clyde]

If it were subjunctive, yes, but it was indicative.

Toss it on your tooney, baby...

(no, I don't know what that means)

[Roadstergal]

Toss it on your tooney, baby...

*toss*

*splat*

Ok...

[Roadstergal]

If it were subjunctive, yes, but it was indicative.


But isn't that subjective?

Pleasingly dynamic.

[clyde]

toadies

[rumatt]

:english:

[clyde]

double nickels on the dime

[FC]

:english:

:lol:

[Nick M3]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

[JST]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

You need to do an LS6 or LS7 conversion.

[Nick M3]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

You need to do an LS6 or LS7 conversion.

Hmm... The 370i that BMW should have made in the first place. :devcool:

[zach]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

You need to do an LS6 or LS7 conversion.

This is the best idea ever. I'm serious.

[JST]

305 is barely enough to get out of its own way, especially in a 4-seater, some here think.

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

You need to do an LS6 or LS7 conversion.

Hmm... The 370i that BMW should have made in the first place. :devcool:

It would not be hard to make that badge. Not that making the badge would be the hardest part of the project.

Driving a 370i would be BAD ASS.

[blee]

It would not be hard to make that badge. Not that making the badge would be the hardest part of the project.

Driving a 370i would be BAD ASS.

It wouldn't be so hard to wedge one in there. What a cool project for a guy with some extra money and a garage.

*cough*

[Nick M3]

It would not be hard to make that badge. Not that making the badge would be the hardest part of the project.

Driving a 370i would be BAD ASS.

It wouldn't be so hard to wedge one in there. What a cool project for a guy with some extra money and a garage.

*cough*

I'd think that most of the stuff produced byt he guys who made the E36 conversion kit would work for an M52 E46.

...of course, it'd probably never pass emissions. :p

[JST]

It would not be hard to make that badge. Not that making the badge would be the hardest part of the project.

Driving a 370i would be BAD ASS.

It wouldn't be so hard to wedge one in there. What a cool project for a guy with some extra money and a garage.

*cough*

I'd think that most of the stuff produced byt he guys who made the E36 conversion kit would work for an M52 E46.

...of course, it'd probably never pass emissions. :p

Given the "crack" efficiency of some of the local emissions inspectors (I use that word intentionally), I'm not sure you'd have much of a problem. If you left the GM cats on, you'd probably be fine on the sniffer--the only issue would be whether an engine transplant would be kosher under MD emissions laws. I don't know the answer to that question, but given that some of the service station guys around me have the IQ of a bowl of fruit salad, you could probably paint "BMW" on the cam covers with Rustoleum and they'd never figure out that it wasn't OEM.

[Nick M3]

MD Emissions are done at a government facility, and you've got to pass OBD-II. There is no sniffer.

[blee]

Given the "crack" efficiency of some of the local emissions inspectors (I use that word intentionally), I'm not sure you'd have much of a problem. If you left the GM cats on, you'd probably be fine on the sniffer--the only issue would be whether an engine transplant would be kosher under MD emissions laws. I don't know the answer to that question, but given that some of the service station guys around me have the IQ of a bowl of fruit salad, you could probably paint "BMW" on the cam covers with Rustoleum and they'd never figure out that it wasn't OEM.

I'd think sticking a Roundel on there would be more convincing. I concur with JST -- all of the physical aspects of emissions and safety testing would be a breeze for an LS7 E46. Any of the preset limits for a "323i" would easily be passed by a new SBC. Damn, that would be fun.

[rumatt]

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

Learn how to carry speed through a corner. :twisted:

[JST]

MD Emissions are done at a government facility, and you've got to pass OBD-II. There is no sniffer.

Register the car in the Commonwealth. Better, register it someplace that doesn't do emissions inspections.

Query, though--if you left the GM OBD port in place (as I think at least one of the E36/SBC conversions I've read about did), could the car theoretically pass? I mean, all OBD does is report on engine and emission parameters, correct? Your GM on-board computer is going to have to stay on the engine, and it seems at least possible that enough of the sensors and electronics would be in place to report an "A-OK!" to the OBD II monitor.

Captain Morgan? Any thoughts?

[Nick M3]

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

Learn how to carry speed through a corner. :twisted:

That's hard when you've got a stop sign.

[blee]

It would be kinda weird to have a BMW pull up and report as a Corvette through the diagnostic port.

[zach]

It would be kinda weird to have a BMW pull up and report as a Corvette through the diagnostic port.

Well, then dump the roundels and add the corvette flags and a picture of Calvin peeing on a Ford symbol in the rear window. Then, they'll just think it's a Corvette.

[Nick M3]

It would be kinda weird to have a BMW pull up and report as a Corvette through the diagnostic port.

Well, then dump the roundels and add the corvette flags and a picture of Calvin peeing on a Ford symbol in the rear window. Then, they'll just think it's a Corvette.

The Corvette wheel bolt pattern is *almost* right... :eeps:

[Plaz]

I'm afraid to merge in my 323.

Learn how to carry speed through a corner. :twisted:

That's hard when you've got a stop sign.

:lol:

[Nick M3]

Hmm. Mods, can we have a "370i psychosis" thread split?

[TD]

Hmm. Mods, can we have a "370i psychosis" thread split?

That would be "Bowling Green Motoren Werke"...

[bren]

MD law last I checked circa 1998 was the engine must be same year or newer and all of the engine's related smog equipment must be present.

You could always ask those guys who are putting one in that e36 what's involved :P

[JST]

Hmm. Mods, can we have a "370i psychosis" thread split?

That would be "Bowling Green Motoren Werke"...

But I don't think it would be a "CSi," since it's a sedan. Unless "CS" is "Corvette Stingray."

I think that the engines are actually built in or around Warren, MI.

GMW 370CSi?

[TD]

Hmm. Mods, can we have a "370i psychosis" thread split?

That would be "Bowling Green Motoren Werke"...

But I don't think it would be a "CSi," since it's a sedan. Unless "CS" is "Corvette Stingray."

I think that the engines are actually built in or around Warren, MI.

GMW 370CSi?

Better?

[nate]

Roadstergal will only be happy when a car comes out that runs on baby seal shit, weighs 85lbs, and emits only good intentions.

[Jason C]

MD Emissions are done at a government facility, and you've got to pass OBD-II. There is no sniffer.

Register the car in the Commonwealth. Better, register it someplace that doesn't do emissions inspections.

Query, though--if you left the GM OBD port in place (as I think at least one of the E36/SBC conversions I've read about did), could the car theoretically pass? I mean, all OBD does is report on engine and emission parameters, correct? Your GM on-board computer is going to have to stay on the engine, and it seems at least possible that enough of the sensors and electronics would be in place to report an "A-OK!" to the OBD II monitor.

Captain Morgan? Any thoughts?

Quite frankly, I don't know enough about it yet to give you an ironclad answer. However, I don't see why you can't do it, especially if you bring along some C6 catalytics.

I know that CA SMOG has a different bunch of people assigned to smogging specialty cars (ie, gray-markets, engine swaps, etc...) and it's something that I may want to do should I end up not going to BMW.

And btw, what's with all this talk about *stuffing* a LS7 into an E30?

Sizewise...

LS7 = LS6 (Ok so the tech article said that the LS7 was 11mm narrower)
LS6 = LS1 (and the new LS2)

And we all know the LS1...

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=506

A LS6 in an E30 M3 (sorry blee) was posted a while ago on Roadfly. So do a little "If A = B and B = C" thinking, and you'll see that it's not only quite possible, but in fact I wouldn't be surprised when someone out there does something like this once the LS7's are avaliable as a crate engine. It should go without saying that anything handling engine power in the E30 (clutch, driveshafts, final drive, etc) would have to be *altered* as well. That didn't surprise anyone though, did it?

But if Honduhboy asks you what's under the hood, then yes, it really did have to be shoehorned in. :)

[Jason C]

Roadstergal will only be happy when a car comes out that runs on baby seal shit, weighs 85lbs, and emits only good intentions.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Roadstergal]

Roadstergal will only be happy when a car comes out that runs on baby seal shit, weighs 85lbs, and emits only good intentions.

:lol: Who's on it?

[blee]

I once saw photos of an F20C placed gently into an E30 coupe chassis. If that isn't perfection, I dunno what is. :P

[Roadstergal]

If that isn't perfection, I dunno what is. :P

There's a certain appeal to the 850 V-12 in the E30.

[Nick M3]

http://www.vorshlag.com/fair/hobbs1.jpg

[Nick M3]

http://www.vorshlag.com/fair/bmw_mockup03.jpg

[blee]

You guys are making this painful for me.

[JST]

http://www.nash8503.com/

http://www.nash8503.com/sitebuilder/images/burnout-194x120.jpg

http://www.nash8503.com/sitebuilder/images/TI_motor-562x390.jpg

Kits:
\
http://www.nash8503.com/Conversion_Kits.html

I bet much would work on an E46.

[SARAFIL]

http://www.nash8503.com/

http://www.nash8503.com/sitebuilder/images/burnout-194x120.jpg

http://www.nash8503.com/sitebuilder/images/TI_motor-562x390.jpg

Kits:
\
http://www.nash8503.com/Conversion_Kits.html

I bet much would work on an E46.

:eeps:

[blee]

$4700, plus an LS1, plus a T56, plus a busted E36. Not cheap. But not really all that pricey, especially if you can sell some of the removed parts.

[zach]

$4700, plus an LS1, plus a T56, plus a busted E36. Not cheap. But not really all that pricey, especially if you can sell some of the removed parts.

I have one of the above.

Still, I can't help but think that an e46 chassis makes a FAR better vessel for this sort of engine transplant.

My car if flexy.

[lemming]

$4700, plus an LS1, plus a T56, plus a busted E36. Not cheap. But not really all that pricey, especially if you can sell some of the removed parts.

I have one of the above.

Still, I can't help but think that an e46 chassis makes a FAR better vessel for this sort of engine transplant.

My car if flexy.

or just buy a used CTS-V in a year or two when they come out with the V series gen.II (either 6.0 litre LS2 or 4.4 litre supercharged) so that the 5.7 litre LS6 V series drops in value.

[zach]

$4700, plus an LS1, plus a T56, plus a busted E36. Not cheap. But not really all that pricey, especially if you can sell some of the removed parts.

I have one of the above.

Still, I can't help but think that an e46 chassis makes a FAR better vessel for this sort of engine transplant.

My car if flexy.

or just buy a used CTS-V in a year or two when they come out with the V series gen.II (either 6.0 litre LS2 or 4.4 litre supercharged) so that the 5.7 litre LS6 V series drops in value.

Eh. The e46 is a better place for that motor than the CTS.

[lemming]

$4700, plus an LS1, plus a T56, plus a busted E36. Not cheap. But not really all that pricey, especially if you can sell some of the removed parts.

I have one of the above.

Still, I can't help but think that an e46 chassis makes a FAR better vessel for this sort of engine transplant.

My car if flexy.

or just buy a used CTS-V in a year or two when they come out with the V series gen.II (either 6.0 litre LS2 or 4.4 litre supercharged) so that the 5.7 litre LS6 V series drops in value.

Eh. The e46 is a better place for that motor than the CTS.

i would generally agree except for two points:

(i) OEM BMW brakes are something i always complain about --upgrade the power without upgrading the brakes (those wussy a$$ single pots up front and rear) is a bad idea; the CTS V comes with 4 pots all around that really stop that mutha.

(ii) one gets sick of replacing window regulator motors after awhile. :lol:

[blee]

Nothing wrong with a little flex. One of the more charming characteristics of the C4 was the way the body would twist when you revved the engine. Even the relatively low-hp models had enough torque to appreciably raise one corner of the car higher than the other with a little flick of the ankle.

[zach]

$4700, plus an LS1, plus a T56, plus a busted E36. Not cheap. But not really all that pricey, especially if you can sell some of the removed parts.

I have one of the above.

Still, I can't help but think that an e46 chassis makes a FAR better vessel for this sort of engine transplant.

My car if flexy.

or just buy a used CTS-V in a year or two when they come out with the V series gen.II (either 6.0 litre LS2 or 4.4 litre supercharged) so that the 5.7 litre LS6 V series drops in value.

Eh. The e46 is a better place for that motor than the CTS.

i would generally agree except for two points:

(i) OEM BMW brakes are something i always complain about --upgrade the power without upgrading the brakes (those wussy a$$ single pots up front and rear) is a bad idea; the CTS V comes with 4 pots all around that really stop that mutha.

(ii) one gets sick of re
placing window regulator motors after awhile. :lol:

As long as we're doing this, we'll do it right. It'll get new brakes. We'll keep the windows up. :P

[zach]

Nothing wrong with a little flex. One of the more charming characteristics of the C4 was the way the body would twist when you revved the engine. Even the relatively low-hp models had enough torque to appreciably raise one corner of the car higher than the other with a little flick of the ankle.

On nearly every level, a non-dbw e46 chassis is better than the e36. I suppose it's heavier, but with 400-500hp, I doubt Nick will notice.

[Jason C]

http://www.nash8503.com/

http://www.nash8503.com/sitebuilder/images/burnout-194x120.jpg

http://www.nash8503.com/sitebuilder/images/TI_motor-562x390.jpg

Kits:
\
http://www.nash8503.com/Conversion_Kits.html

I bet much would work on an E46.

Must... control... self...

[lemming]

BMW's, known for their engines, are being pictured with OHV engines.

oh, the sacrilege.

we won't be having this conversation when the e90 m3 v8 is released.

:)

then i know at least i'll be happy. i keep looking for an excuse to get a RWDer again as a primary vehicle. the G35 6speed is in the running, as is the e90 330i. naturally, i'd have to look at a stripper 997 (mbr language) and the v8 m3. just the idea of a 3 series vehicle with a v8 is too cool to resist.

[John V]

BMW's, known for their engines, are being pictured with OHV engines.

And their miserable strut front suspensions. Why saddle a great engine (LS2) with a mediocre (from a sporting standpoint) E36 / E46 chassis?

we won't be having this conversation when the e90 m3 v8 is released.
Sure we will. Because the M3 V8 will produce less power and torque across the rev range, but it will be heavier and have a higher center of gravity (characteristic of DOHC engines, plus all the Vanos crap). Hm, a lighter, more powerful, "low tech" motor versus a heavier, less powerful "high tech" motor... :eeps:

:)

[lemming]

BMW's, known for their engines, are being pictured with OHV engines.

And their miserable strut front suspensions. Why saddle a great engine (LS2) with a mediocre (from a sporting standpoint) E36 / E46 chassis?

we won't be having this conversation when the e90 m3 v8 is released.
Sure we will. Because the M3 V8 will produce less power and torque across the rev range, but it will be heavier and have a higher center of gravity (characteristic of DOHC engines, plus all the Vanos crap). Hm, a lighter, more powerful, "low tech" motor versus a heavier, less powerful "high tech" motor... :eeps:

:)

it will boil down to execution. i dunno about the e60m5 --hoping and assuming they get that right, they should be able to get the PTG-esque 4.0 litre v8 M3 done well --there is something to be said for a v8 that is able to carry each gear longer per shift a la ferrari or the new audi RS4. ultimately i could live with some torque shortage (it is eight cylinders, after all) for a nice rev band.

what i don't like about the e46 m3 is that the block is so heavy it really adds to the weight of the car and because they didn't bore it out, it is down on torque. nice powerband, but for its weight, not my cup of tea.

[Jason C]

Can't swing an LS7?

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/products/249549/LS2-60L-Gen-IV-Crate-Engine-Assembly.htm

This + Garden-variety 3-series = quite the sleeper, no?