View Full Version : Yet another look at the S2000
Jason C
03-08-2005, 04:24 PM
I just got back from dealership row, and I am all :) :) :) s after this little visit...
So a few family members and I meandered down Stevens Creek today, not planning or expecting much. I got a good look at the LS430, damn what a posh barge! If you want to cruise down the road in trouble-free luxury, look no further.
The (brief) highlight of my visit was worth the wait, though. We went to Honda, and a salesman went to open up an S2000 outside while I waited and played with the Ridgelines funky cargo layout. On a side note, I think it's strange that there wasn't a single S2000 on the showroom floors.
There was a white one between two Silverstone on Blacks. Up until this point, I had frowned on the white S2000s I've seen in photos and other images, plus I didn't like the interior color. Well, they say you have to see them in person before deciding for or condemning it, and boy was I wrong! It looked great, so much better than the crappy pics I've seen. The tan leather/floor mats contrasted beautifully with the black. The white didn't make it look bloated like most modern BMW's would in that color, nay - it looked every bit the lean mean fighting machine that you'd imagine it to be. Seats had more side bolstering than I remembered.
I asked the salesman if he could lower the top, and to my surprise and delight, he started up the car as I was sitting in the passenger seat, fiddling with the right-side latch. Oooh it sounded good when it started up! It growled menacingly when on its high-idle warm up. I couldn't resist giving the throttle valve a few twists. I was so tempted to ask for a test drive, but the other members had places to go and errands to run afterwards. Plus, I'd feel like a dork for test driving a car when I'm at least 7+ months from being in the market. I'm not pointing any fingers, mind you.
:twisted:
I really, really, really like this car. I must test-drive it sometime before the fall, right about when I take the STEP entrance exam. As much as I dig the Evo VIII/IX, I am strongly biased towards the raw, elemental flavor that is the S2000. Plus there's that issue of Mitsubishi surviving long enough, that's sorta important.
This is wafflers central, so let's hear it: Evolution or S2000? And what color on the S2000? Because Rio yellow is so retina-scorching hot, but red is just classic, and Sebring Silver/Silverstone with the Red&Black leather is just the S2K trademark, then there's white...
PS: Carmudgeons waffling about colors, you can forget about Suzuka. :tongue:
rumatt
03-08-2005, 04:41 PM
I really, really, really like this car.
That's a lot of like for not even test driving it yet.
:P
Jason C
03-08-2005, 04:42 PM
I really, really, really like this car.
That's a lot of like for not even test driving it yet.
:P
True. But you notice I haven't used the word "love" yet. I'm saving that for possible use after a drive. :P :P :P
I really, really, really like this car.
That's a lot of like for not even test driving it yet.
:P
True. But you notice I haven't used the word "love" yet. I'm saving that for possible use after a drive. :P :P :P
I'd pick a red/black S2000 over an EVO. But it is really a stupid comment since I've not driven either.
I really, really, really like this car.
That's a lot of like for not even test driving it yet.
:P
True. But you notice I haven't used the word "love" yet. I'm saving that for possible use after a drive. :P :P :P
I'd take an S2000 based on nothing more than the looks of the Evo. I just can't get past that "I'm-16-and-my parents-bought-me-this-cool-car-that-I'm-going-to-wreck-before-my-17th-birthday" look of the thing.
That said, I relly like torque. So I doubt I'd be happy with an S2000.
Jason C
03-08-2005, 10:39 PM
I'm not exactly a big fan of the image conveyed by the Evo, but AFAIC, it's preferable to the stigma associated with an elitist luxury badge (ie, used Boxster, 3-series). I don't want to outspend the boss, or at least appear to.
Some of the cars I've been seriously considering just feel better to me than others... something intangible about feeling more natural behind the wheel. As much as I like the new Mustang, I didn't feel all that comfortable behind the wheel. The S2000, Miata, Evo (and to a somewhat lesser degree) the RX-8... all of them just felt right. An E46 Zhp felt nice too, but that's way out of my pricing ballpark - image notwithstanding.
That all could change after driving them, of course. :eeps: :tongue:
rumatt
03-08-2005, 11:47 PM
I'd take an S2000 based on nothing more than the looks of the Evo.
So what you're saying is that you buy your cars based on their styling... kind of like PhillyGirl.
"I'm-16-and-my parents-bought-me-this-cool-car-that-I'm-going-to-wreck-before-my-17th-birthday"
:lol:
I'm a big fan of silvers and greys. And naturally, I'm a little biased towards the S2000. So, I'd vote silverstone.
jpgurl
03-09-2005, 10:57 AM
Plus, I'd feel like a dork for test driving a car when I'm at least 7+ months from being in the market.
I consider test driving cars a hobby. Some people play golf, I test drive cars. :)
And the S gets my vote too. You guys have been drooling all over that car here for the last few months, now *I* want to go test drive it.
And the S gets my vote too. You guys have been drooling all over that car here for the last few months, now *I* want to go test drive it.
Nobody's stopping you :P
jpgurl
03-09-2005, 12:55 PM
Well I hate to sound like a loser but how squirrely is the S2000 in the rain? I've just heard too many stories about people stuffing it into a ditch 'cause the back end wants to come around. I have gotten too used to cars with traction control and AWD (the Avant is rock solid in the rain).
One of the main reasons I sold the G35 was because it positively SUCKED in the rain and would break free even with traction control ON.
A convertible is next on my hit list and a TT is currently in the #1 slot. But the S2000 is now creeping in...
I don't want to outspend the boss, or at least appear to.
:lol:
My boss drives a Saturn. I suppose it is better now that we are in different states, but she was very excited with me when I bought the first BMW. At least she only drives an auto b/c her last saturn spit something through the side of the engine block and there weren't any manuals with the higher end option package available. She chose anti-lock brakes over the manual transmission . . .
One of the main reasons I sold the G35 was because it positively SUCKED in the rain and would break free even with traction control ON.
Unless the engineers completely bothched the suspension geometry, it probably comes down to grip. Tires, and their size and profile have a lot to do with that. Finally, and I don't know what your experience is, applying throttle in the wrong situation can cause problems. Particularly if you are not used to the amount of power.
Regardless, I'm not saying that you should have kept your car and just changed tires, or be sensitive to it's dynamics, etc., because you should be happy with your car in all situations.
Re: the S2000, I believe the rear-end issue was solved in 2004 along with all the other changes made that year, like the engine.
Well I hate to sound like a loser but how squirrely is the S2000 in the rain? I've just heard too many stories about people stuffing it into a ditch 'cause the back end wants to come around.
Honda made mods to the rear end, beginning w/ 2004 model, to decrease the snap oversteer. Even still, if you end up in the ditch when it's raining, it's your own fault for not driving within what the conditions allow. You do have to be more careful when cornering than w/, say, a 3 series, because of the lack of stability control. It's no longer the car's computer and the road. Now it's you and the road (which is what I like so much about this car).
I've driven mine in the rain several times, and will say that without traction control the rear tires are pretty easy to break loose. Not under normal acceleration, but when you intentionally push the throttle a bit more. I've seen the benefits of LSD (never driven a car with it before), as both wheels provide traction when traction is limited. Seems to keep the car pointed more in the correct direction, and is easier to modulate the throttle correctly when the back end does start to break loose.
clyde
03-09-2005, 02:47 PM
You do have to be more careful when cornering than w/, say, a 3 series, because of the lack of stability control. It's no longer the car's computer and the road. Now it's you and the road (which is what I like so much about this car).
That's only partly true. DSC aside, a 3er has a much more benign suspension setup that is heavy on being inherently stable. Left to its own devices the rear of a 3er is much less likely to want to head for the hills than that of an S2k (pre or post changes). The only thing that DSC does is try to save you once it happens...it's just much less likely to happen.
Well I hate to sound like a loser but how squirrely is the S2000 in the rain? I've just heard too many stories about people stuffing it into a ditch 'cause the back end wants to come around. I have gotten too used to cars with traction control and AWD (the Avant is rock solid in the rain).
One of the main reasons I sold the G35 was because it positively SUCKED in the rain and would break free even with traction control ON.
A convertible is next on my hit list and a TT is currently in the #1 slot. But the S2000 is now creeping in...
Learn how to drive at a track near you! :P
atyclb
03-09-2005, 03:35 PM
Learn how to drive at a track near you! :P
there are no tracks near her :P
jpgurl
03-09-2005, 03:35 PM
Learn how to drive at a track near you! :P
watch it buddy. I know where you live.
Learn how to drive at a track near you! :P
watch it buddy. I know where you live.
:lol:
Learn how to drive at a track near you! :P
there are no tracks near her :P
ok, 2 hours away...
I have no desire for a convertible, but I'd look long and close at an S2K coupe, were they to build one.
atyclb
03-09-2005, 03:55 PM
I have no desire for a convertible, but I'd look long and close at an S2K coupe, were they to build one.
:dunno:
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/s2000/equipment/hardtop/hardtop.jpg
zcasavant
03-09-2005, 03:58 PM
I have no desire for a convertible, but I'd look long and close at an S2K coupe, were they to build one.
:dunno:
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/s2000/equipment/hardtop/hardtop.jpg
I think he wants more than 2 seats.
I have no desire for a convertible, but I'd look long and close at an S2K coupe, were they to build one.
:dunno:
http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/s2000/equipment/hardtop/hardtop.jpg
Nice looking car.
Too bad it doesn't have an engine.
Too bad it doesn't have an engine.
:rofl:
(Yeah, a "back seat" would be necessary for me still)
atyclb
03-09-2005, 04:20 PM
Too bad it doesn't have an engine.
:rofl:
(Yeah, a "back seat" would be necessary for me still)
:dunno:
http://www.tomorrowland.us/sportscar/images/rx8.jpg
[/clyde]
Several S2Ks do close to 2:00 at TWS, not too shabby for a car with no engine... I happen to love the pre-2004 S2K engine, so much fun driving it, with the best shifter and clutch, it was the most rewarding car I've driven.
Scary at its limit, yeah, I heard, but who here can actually drive it at its limit?
--Andrew
Too bad it doesn't have an engine.
:rofl:
(Yeah, a "back seat" would be necessary for me still)
:dunno:
http://www.tomorrowland.us/sportscar/images/rx8.jpg
[/clyde]
Yeah, yeah... I'm not in the market. Just saying.
(Besides, my hands might be too feminine for that.)
Too bad it doesn't have an engine.
Mine sits in the garage with 0 miles on it. Because it doesn't have an engine. Sure is nice to look at, though.
rumatt
03-09-2005, 04:42 PM
I'm glad to see the torque whores ragging on the S2K in addition to the RX8.
It's fine to love it or hate it, but I never understood why the S2K seems to escape so much of the flak that the RX8 receives.
atyclb
03-09-2005, 04:46 PM
i'm happy with my 133 ft-lbs of torque :eeps:
I'm glad to see the torque whores ragging on the S2K in addition to the RX8.
It's fine to love it or hate it, but I never understood why the S2K seems to escape so much of the flak that the RX8 receives.
The RX-8 is, and I mean this in the most literal sense, infinitely more pleasant to drive than the S2K.
rumatt
03-09-2005, 05:11 PM
i'm happy with my 133 ft-lbs of torque :eeps:
Toy cars don't count.
i'm happy with my 133 ft-lbs of torque :eeps:
Toy cars don't count.
I agree. An S2000 or Elise would be awesoem at the track where you're always windign it up. Around town, I need some semblance of torque. A somewhat peaky engine is fine (Recent BMW I-6's and Porsche engines), but not THAT peaky.
atyclb
03-09-2005, 06:14 PM
the elise is quite fun around town
the right pedal is there for a reason
clyde
03-09-2005, 08:39 PM
the elise is quite fun around town
the right pedal is there for a reason
to get in the way of the middle pedal?
the elise is quite fun around town
the right pedal is there for a reason
Well, the Elise probably suffers a lot less than the S2000 in the torque dept given its light weight (30% less) yet similar torque output.
Any word on oil starvation problems with Elises running R-compounds? An Elise on R-C's must pull some pretty high G's.
jpgurl
03-09-2005, 09:18 PM
Well kids, I took 1/2 a day off tomorrow to play and have found a used '04 S2000 to go test drive. It is absolutely gorgeous here right now so I feel I should go do it.
It's got 13,000 ish miles, black on black. I know my post test-drive write up probably won't be nearly as interesting as TD and JST's, but I will hopefully have more to offer than... I can put my mascara on and shift at the same time. :?
atyclb
03-09-2005, 09:51 PM
Any word on oil starvation problems with Elises running R-compounds?
nope
ARCHER
03-09-2005, 10:33 PM
Well kids, I took 1/2 a day off tomorrow to play and have found a used '04 S2000 to go test drive. It is absolutely gorgeous here right now so I feel I should go do it.
Absolutely you should. It's a damn fun car.
I look forward to your take on it.
ARCHER
03-09-2005, 10:55 PM
I wasn't too taken by the white/tan. That particular flavor was on the showroom floor and although it is beautiful, and a more forgiving hue on the S2000 than most, white just doesn't do it for me if I'm in the hunt for a sports car. But that is a personal preference.
The S2000 is raw, direct, communicative and purposeful. Give me more low-end torque and I would put the M3 behind me - no question.
The RX-8 is, and I mean this in the most literal sense, infinitely more pleasant to drive than the S2K.
The RX-8 must be a lot like driving an Enzo, then? Or even an F1 racer?
The RX-8 is, and I mean this in the most literal sense, infinitely more pleasant to drive than the S2K.
The RX-8 must be a lot like driving an Enzo, then? Or even an F1 racer?
I'm going to add those two to my list of cars to test drive this summer
So far:
1. Boxster S
2. C6
3. MCS
4. RX-8
5. S2000
Jason C
03-10-2005, 10:36 AM
I wasn't too taken by the white/tan. That particular flavor was on the showroom floor and although it is beautiful, and a more forgiving hue on the S2000 than most, white just doesn't do it for me if I'm in the hunt for a sports car. But that is a personal preference.
So what color does it for you, then?
I'm split between Rio Yellow and GP White. Sebring/Silverstone is just a bit too common (especially on S2K's), I'm not feeling NF Red or Suzuka for some reason, and Black is nice but a serious PITA to maintain.
Still, I doubt I'd turn down any color combo, if the right deal presented itself.
Well kids, I took 1/2 a day off tomorrow to play and have found a used '04 S2000 to go test drive. It is absolutely gorgeous here right now so I feel I should go do it.
It's got 13,000 ish miles, black on black. I know my post test-drive write up probably won't be nearly as interesting as TD and JST's, but I will hopefully have more to offer than... I can put my mascara on and shift at the same time. :?
I'd go for a pre-04 model, even more fun! :)
Well kids, I took 1/2 a day off tomorrow to play and have found a used '04 S2000 to go test drive. It is absolutely gorgeous here right now so I feel I should go do it.
It's got 13,000 ish miles, black on black. I know my post test-drive write up probably won't be nearly as interesting as TD and JST's, but I will hopefully have more to offer than... I can put my mascara on and shift at the same time. :?
That's something I've never tried, actually.
jpgurl
03-10-2005, 02:40 PM
bad sign...
called to make sure the car was still available to drive and the salesman had never heard "CPO" used as an abbreviation for Certified Pre-Owned. :? :speechle:
bad sign...
called to make sure the car was still available to drive and the salesman had never heard "CPO" used as an abbreviation for Certified Pre-Owned. :? :speechle:
When I was hunting for the M, a salesman in Arizona (was there for the Barret Jackson auction) didn't know what e36 meant. Yes, at a bmw dealer. :lol:
i'm happy with my 133 ft-lbs of torque :eeps:
:thumbup:
Ditto here. I'm perfectly happy with 161 ft-lbs. If the car still accelerates to 60 in 5.5 sec's (or under 5 sec's in your case :bigpimp: ), who cares? To me, it's all about the experience in "getting there".
ARCHER
03-10-2005, 09:26 PM
I wasn't too taken by the white/tan. That particular flavor was on the showroom floor and although it is beautiful, and a more forgiving hue on the S2000 than most, white just doesn't do it for me if I'm in the hunt for a sports car. But that is a personal preference.
So what color does it for you, then?
I'm split between Rio Yellow and GP White. Sebring/Silversone is just a bit too common (especially on S2K's), I'm not feeling NF Red or Suzuka for some reason, and Black is nice but a serious PITA to maintain.
Still, I doubt I'd turn down any color combo, if the right deal presented itself.
I'm a sucker for the red/black interior combo. It really does it for me and I honestly don't mind the silvers - especially when it comes to keeping it clean. I'd love a black on black/red if they still offered it.
Hell, I wanted Tanin in the 330 but couldn't get the wife on board until she rode in Emission's car. It was too late then.
atyclb
03-10-2005, 09:26 PM
report?
jpgurl
03-10-2005, 11:33 PM
report...
The salesman took all my info and sent me on my way... but after what seemed like an excruciating 20 minutes (but was really only 30 seconds or so) I finally figured out how to get it into reverse. :oops: anyway...
Pulled out of the dealer and was immediately greeted by a funeral procession. Took a short cut and was not greeted by open road but... the same darn funeral procession. (But hey, I'd much rather wait for it than be IN it).
The S2000 has been described as "raw" by many guys here and that is the adjective I would have to use also. The engine and exhaust were much louder than I expected. The beltline (is that the right term?) was high, and at 5' 1", I felt like I was driving a bathtub. Probably looked like a 14 year old driving dad's car. Never got it out of 4th gear, even at 65 ish. Seems to love the high revs. The exhaust note was quite lovely and shifting was buttery smooth. And even driving barefoot I got a nice massage by the rubber bumps on the pedals. :P However, I could definitely feel the back end wanting to skip about on not so smooth pavement turns. I shudder to think about driving in the rain. :yikes: Throttle response was immediate and plenty powerful and I never once thought about needing more torque.
After the test drive I realized that while this car is a kick in the pants, it cannot be my daily driver. I am a big chicken and I just don't want to have to think that much. It's all sport, all the time. I need the combination of a Miata and a refined sports sedan. I think the TT is it for me. After today's f'n gorgeous weather I am now in convertible mode, bad.
I got back into the Avant 3.0 and was slapped in the face by three words that fly around here regularly... slow, fat, pig. Damn.
Jason C
03-11-2005, 02:23 AM
It's all sport, all the time.
Good! :thumbup:
I got back into the Avant 3.0 and was slapped in the face by three words that fly around here regularly... slow, fat, pig. Damn.
Come on TD, at least make an attempt to drive the 2004+ with the 2.2 before condemming it. Hey, at least it doesn't look like a Pep Boys special. ;)
PS: What color was it jpgurl? Did you like it or would you have gone with something else, given the choice?
Jason C
03-11-2005, 02:31 AM
I'd love a black on black/red if they still offered it.
Yup, that combo could get me to overlook the pitfalls of owning a black car. Outside of the USA (ie, as close as Canada) they have the black on black/red AND the white on black/red. Damn them lucky bastids. :cry:
It's all sport, all the time.
Good! :thumbup:
I got back into the Avant 3.0 and was slapped in the face by three words that fly around here regularly... slow, fat, pig. Damn.
Come on TD, at least make an attempt to drive the 2004+ with the 2.2 before condemming it. Hey, at least it doesn't look like a Pep Boys special. ;)
PS: What color was it jpgurl? Did you like it or would you have gone with something else, given the choice?
Dude, I never condemned it on any level except that it only has two seats and is a convertible. I am skeptical about the torque, admittedly. However, it could be the single best performing car on the road yet, even if I chose to ignore the convertible factor, I still can't put kids in the trunk.
I would love to drive one but, for now, I feel like I only have enough free time to test drive things I could conceivably actually purchase.
Jason C
03-11-2005, 09:12 AM
Dude, I never condemned it on any level except that it only has two seats and is a convertible. I am skeptical about the torque, admittedly. However, it could be the single best performing car on the road yet, even if I chose to ignore the convertible factor, I still can't put kids in the trunk.
I would love to drive one but, for now, I feel like I only have enough free time to test drive things I could conceivably actually purchase.
Seems like if you're going to rule out 2-seaters and you want massive torque, you should be looking towards something like the Mustang/GTO. I'd almost suggest picking up a mildly used C6 a year from now, but there's that issue of seats again.
Sure you couldn't live with one dedicated family hauler? The minimal requirement of a 2+2 does constrain what you can pick from (not that you arent already self-limited as it is ;) )
Dude, I never condemned it on any level except that it only has two seats and is a convertible. I am skeptical about the torque, admittedly. However, it could be the single best performing car on the road yet, even if I chose to ignore the convertible factor, I still can't put kids in the trunk.
I would love to drive one but, for now, I feel like I only have enough free time to test drive things I could conceivably actually purchase.
Seems like if you're going to rule out 2-seaters and you want massive torque, you should be looking towards something like the Mustang/GTO. I'd almost suggest picking up a mildly used C6 a year from now, but there's that issue of seats again.
Sure you couldn't live with one dedicated family hauler? The minimal requirement of a 2+2 does constrain what you can pick from (not that you arent already self-limited as it is ;) )
Those of us with kids will probably concur that the second car doesn't need to be kid friendly, but you have to be able to haul them along if you have to for some reason. In other words, a coupe is fine. But it needs more of a backseat than what is typically found in a Porsche 911, to pick an example. But an E46 or G35 coupe is fine. An R32 or MCS would be fine as well.
clyde
03-11-2005, 10:41 AM
Seems like if you're going to rule out 2-seaters and you want massive torque, you should be looking towards something like the Mustang/GTO.
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
Seems like if you're going to rule out 2-seaters and you want massive torque, you should be looking towards something like the Mustang/GTO.
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
I've pondered it.
I plan to drive one at some point prior to deciding.
zcasavant
03-11-2005, 10:45 AM
Seems like if you're going to rule out 2-seaters and you want massive torque, you should be looking towards something like the Mustang/GTO.
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
I've pondered it.
I plan to drive one at some point prior to deciding.
It's a pig. It didn't even feel that fast.
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
It'd be a Q-ship, that's for sure.
Jason C
03-11-2005, 11:00 AM
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
It'd be a Q-ship, that's for sure.
JST and Clyde seem to have the slowfatpig concensus, while C&D seem to conclude that it handled nicely. Anyone here want to guess what TD will think?*
*It certainly won't be as fleet of foot as the M3, I think that much is certain.
Those of us with kids will probably concur that the second car doesn't need to be kid friendly, but you have to be able to haul them along if you have to for some reason. In other words, a coupe is fine. But it needs more of a backseat than what is typically found in a Porsche 911, to pick an example. But an E46 or G35 coupe is fine. An R32 or MCS would be fine as well.
I think that makes perfect sense, but you would still have a wagon and the E36 cab, right? That's two vehicles that can haul kids. You want all three to be able to do that?
Or are you planning on completely revampling your fleet?
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
It'd be a Q-ship, that's for sure.
JST and Clyde seem to have the slowfatpig concensus, while C&D seem to conclude that it handled nicely. Anyone here want to guess what TD will think?*
*It certainly won't be as fleet of foot as the M3, I think that much is certain.
Let's take the focus off of me.
I've read mixed reviews of the GTO. I am inclined to doubt that it would be good enough to motivate me to overlook certain aspects of it. But I'll give it a fair shot when I finally get around to driving it.
clyde
03-11-2005, 11:22 AM
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
It'd be a Q-ship, that's for sure.
JST and Clyde seem to have the slowfatpig concensus, while C&D seem to conclude that it handled nicely. Anyone here want to guess what TD will think?*
*It certainly won't be as fleet of foot as the M3, I think that much is certain.
I haven't been in a 2005 GTO.
The car had torque, though. Complaints about the car were largely directed to areas don't manifest themselves in regular day to day driving...
I don't think that the GTO would be TD's car of choice, but I do think it would be worthwhile for him to test drive one if only to eliminate it.
Hmm...The GTO could make an interesting choice.
It'd be a Q-ship, that's for sure.
JST and Clyde seem to have the slowfatpig concensus, while C&D seem to conclude that it handled nicely. Anyone here want to guess what TD will think?*
*It certainly won't be as fleet of foot as the M3, I think that much is certain.
I haven't been in a 2005 GTO.
The car had torque, though. Complaints about the car were largely directed to areas don't manifest themselves in regular day to day driving...
I don't think that the GTO would be TD's car of choice, but I do think it would be worthwhile for him to test drive one if only to eliminate it.
I haven't, either, though I'd like to drive one for the hell of it.
As I've said before, the 2004 GTO's problem was NOT that it was too slow. I have no doubt that the 6.0 is a blast to drive, and from the performance numbers I've seen it will run with an E46 M3 in a straight line, and probably be faster in nearly every circumstance given it's huge torque advantage and monster peak hp numbers.
The GTO's main problem was damping--it was too soft and lacked body control. It's second big problem was steering, which was numb and slow-witted. It's third big problem was brakes, which felt inadequate, though they may have addressed that with the 05s. It also plowed like a John Deere around our impromptu skidpad.
All of that said, if those were the only issues with a GTO, the engine and price might be enough to make me sign. But when you couple the dynamic issues with the practical and luxuy issues (doors bigger and heavier than the propellers on the Titanic, no trunk space, no folding seats, no sunroof, no heated seats, no possibility of integrated XM, etc.), the car loses a lot of its appeal. And when you drive a Mustang, you realize that you can have better driving feel, similar performance, and more practicality for many thousands less.
It is no great mystery to me (though it apparently is to 123 C/D readers) why the Mustang GT sits on dealer lots for less than 2 hours on average, while the GTO languishes for months.
jpgurl:
The S could've had bad tires, I test drove one with original S02's and it sucked, sliding everywhere on 2222 which was kindda fun.
Keep in mind the car doesn't have traction control, and it has mechanical throttle. You have to be smooth with throttle application, you have to pay attention to the rear end. The E36 M3 is kindda like this too, which makes it a very exciting car to drive. I test drove one with cold tires and shock rear suspension and the rearend came around before I knew it!!
The 2004+ models, although boring IMO, might be a better choice for you.
Upgrading the nut behind the wheel is probably cheaper and more effective than swapping cars. ;)
--Andrew
jpgurl
03-11-2005, 12:41 PM
Upgrading the nut behind the wheel is probably cheaper and more effective than swapping cars. ;)
Andrew - c'mon! That is quite enough. I don't suck that bad. :rolleyes:
rumatt
03-11-2005, 12:45 PM
Andrew - c'mon! That is quite enough. I don't suck that bad. :rolleyes:
I could be wrong, but I think his statement was a general comment that applies to all of us. It's certainly true for me.
ARCHER
03-11-2005, 10:40 PM
As my boss and I were leaving the parking lot for a meeting today, he spied the black GTO in he parking lot that I have been sizing up for several weeks now.
His comment - and he is about as far from a "car guy" as one can get, "GTO... aren't GTOs supposed to be fast?' That thing looks too fat to be fast." :lol:
And it does.
I haven't driven one but first glance alone speaks volumes, IMO.
atyclb
03-11-2005, 10:43 PM
S2000 to elise:
http://www.elisetalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10395
rumatt
03-11-2005, 11:09 PM
Nice writeup. Too bad we don't get any of them from the elise owners on this board.
:stickpoke
As my boss and I were leaving the parking lot for a meeting today, he spied the black GTO in he parking lot that I have been sizing up for several weeks now.
His comment - and he is about as far from a "car guy" as one can get, "GTO... aren't GTOs supposed to be fast?' That thing looks too fat to be fast." :lol:
And it does.
I haven't driven one but first glance alone speaks volumes, IMO.
Everyone knocks the GTO's styling, but I think it's very tasteful and quite well done. It's subtle; it evokes Grand Prix (which is good from a Pontiac brand identity standpoint), but when you see it in the metal it doesn't really look like anything else out there. To paraphrase C/D, it is a shame that if you made it look stupider you'd probably sell more.
ARCHER
03-15-2005, 11:20 PM
As my boss and I were leaving the parking lot for a meeting today, he spied the black GTO in he parking lot that I have been sizing up for several weeks now.
His comment - and he is about as far from a "car guy" as one can get, "GTO... aren't GTOs supposed to be fast?' That thing looks too fat to be fast." :lol:
And it does.
I haven't driven one but first glance alone speaks volumes, IMO.
Everyone knocks the GTO's styling, but I think it's very tasteful and quite well done. It's subtle; it evokes Grand Prix (which is good from a Pontiac brand identity standpoint), but when you see it in the metal it doesn't really look like anything else out there. To paraphrase C/D, it is a shame that if you made it look stupider you'd probably sell more.
While I agree that it is understated (especially for Pontiac), the very fact that evokes Grand Prix nixes the deal for me. I have a serious aversion toward anything Pontiac after my brother's owning of a Grand Am. Words can't describe what a god-awful piece of shit that thing was.
Call me short-sighted, biased or whatever. I just can't get past my one and only Pontiac experience. I think it ruined me for life.
As my boss and I were leaving the parking lot for a meeting today, he spied the black GTO in he parking lot that I have been sizing up for several weeks now.
His comment - and he is about as far from a "car guy" as one can get, "GTO... aren't GTOs supposed to be fast?' That thing looks too fat to be fast." :lol:
And it does.
I haven't driven one but first glance alone speaks volumes, IMO.
Everyone knocks the GTO's styling, but I think it's very tasteful and quite well done. It's subtle; it evokes Grand Prix (which is good from a Pontiac brand identity standpoint), but when you see it in the metal it doesn't really look like anything else out there. To paraphrase C/D, it is a shame that if you made it look stupider you'd probably sell more.
While I agree that it is understated (especially for Pontiac), the very fact that evokes Grand Prix nixes the deal for me. I have a serious aversion toward anything Pontiac after my brother's owning of a Grand Am. Words can't describe what a god-awful piece of shit that thing was.
Call me short-sighted, biased or whatever. I just can't get past my one and only Pontiac experience. I think it ruined me for life.
So buy some Monaro badges--after all, it's an Aussie variant of a German GM with a Corvette engine. It's a Pontiac in name only.
Not that my experience with Aussie build quality filled me with confidence. Am I the only one here who had a Capri XR2? :eeps:
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