View Full Version : I picked up the S2000 for the weekend.
ARCHER
02-26-2005, 07:07 PM
Damn! I like it a lot.
I've only had about .5 hours of seat time at this point and I definitely notice the lack of torque vs the M3. However, it is raw - much more raw than the M3, and I like that a lot. The rev limiter seems to shut the VTEC down just as it is coming on the pipe. My intitial impression is that I would want a pre-2004 model as torque is not this car's selling point anyway. We will see but so far, I am smitten.
I will say that the bolt-action shifter in this thing is a work of art. This alone is worth the drive. The throws feel to be no more than an inch, at most.
clyde
02-26-2005, 09:11 PM
I will say that the bolt-action shifter in this thing is a work of art. This alone is worth the drive. The throws feel to be no more than an inch, at most.
I love the S2K shifters too.
rumatt
02-26-2005, 09:45 PM
So when are you placing your order? :D
If I were getting an S2K I'd be torn between pre- or post-04 models. The idea that VTEC was shortened isn't great. But for every day driving it's nice to have some torque down low..
I think the earlier models have a bit less cabin space, so if you're a big dude you might be better off in the post-04
Damn! I like it a lot.
I've only had about .5 hours of seat time at this point and I definitely notice the lack of torque vs the M3. However, it is raw - much more raw than the M3, and I like that a lot. The rev limiter seems to shut the VTEC down just as it is coming on the pipe. My intitial impression is that I would want a pre-2004 model as torque is not this car's selling point anyway. We will see but so far, I am smitten.
I will say that the bolt-action shifter in this thing is a work of art. This alone is worth the drive. The throws feel to be no more than an inch, at most.
I love the S2000, JST be damned. The shifter is just one of the things that make it beautiful; it's about as perfect as I've ever experienced, and I simply can't see how anyone will make a better one before the clutch pedal becomes extinct. I also prefer the powerplant in the pre-'04 models, although the suspension modifications in the later models are good to have. As far as space goes...yes, the new ones are a bit roomier, but we're not talking about inches here. I wouldn't let that become a factor.
The shifter is indeed a work of art. I've felt none better.
When I first bought mine, I thought the torque was a little underwhelming. Part of it, is that the engine has some breaking-in to do, the rest is that you need to get used to the short gearing. Once you settle into the car, and it's broken in, this car moves without any effort. It really, really moves. You have to rev it, yes, but I find that adds so much to every drive I take in the car. You're always involved.
I would like the redline closer to its original height, as the rev limiter takes over while the engine is still in the heart of its powerband. It's by no means done making power at 8000 RPM.
My favorite thing about the car, as you termed it, is that it's raw. It's just you, some steel, the tires, and the road. No silly traction control, no ultra-vibration absorbing drivetrain mounts, no down-filled seats that cool your butt in the summer and heat it in the winter. The car has a single purpose, and a very limited base of potential customers.
Like I've mentioned in a previous review, I've finally found the car I've been searching for all my life.
atyclb
02-27-2005, 05:51 PM
My favorite thing about the car, as you termed it, is that it's raw. It's just you, some steel, the tires, and the road.
steel's too heavy
The shifter is indeed a work of art. I've felt none better.
When I first bought mine, I thought the torque was a little underwhelming. Part of it, is that the engine has some breaking-in to do, the rest is that you need to get used to the short gearing. Once you settle into the car, and it's broken in, this car moves without any effort. It really, really moves. You have to rev it, yes, but I find that adds so much to every drive I take in the car. You're always involved.
I would like the redline closer to its original height, as the rev limiter takes over while the engine is still in the heart of its powerband. It's by no means done making power at 8000 RPM.
My favorite thing about the car, as you termed it, is that it's raw. It's just you, some steel, the tires, and the road. No silly traction control, no ultra-vibration absorbing drivetrain mounts, no down-filled seats that cool your butt in the summer and heat it in the winter. The car has a single purpose, and a very limited base of potential customers.
Like I've mentioned in a previous review, I've finally found the car I've been searching for all my life.
I'm a fan of the S2000, I just cannot imagine it being my personal daily driver. It seems like it would be a bit too much. I would, however, love to get one as a track/autox car in a few years. I'm sure everyone else would like to do the same, but that is my plan. If only there was a coupe so that I'd feel safer.
Anyway, it is awesome that there are cars for sale like the S2000 and Elise. Used examples will make great track/autox-only cars eventually.
All that said, I'd like to test-drive an S2000 this spring/summer.
rumatt
02-27-2005, 07:48 PM
Like I've mentioned in a previous review, I've finally found the car I've been searching for all my life.
Awesome. Glad you ended up loving it.
rumatt
02-27-2005, 07:49 PM
my plan.
:speechle:
:D
my plan.
:speechle:
:D
I will eventually buy a cheaper car that I wont cry over if I stuff it on a wall. Who knows what it will be, but it will happen. If I end up keep my 330i for long enough, it may be the one. But whatever it is, it would have to be worth under $10K.
rumatt
02-27-2005, 08:06 PM
If I end up keep my 330i for long enough, it may be the one. But whatever it is, it would have to be worth under $10K.
Might not be as far out as we thought. I'm wondering how long it will be before my E30 is worth more than my E46. :speechle:
My favorite thing about the car, as you termed it, is that it's raw. It's just you, some steel, the tires, and the road.
steel's too heavy
The S2000 could stand to lose a few pounds (not that it feels heavy to me). I think the main goal when they designed it, was to keep costs to a minimum. Which is why they didn't clad the car in aluminum body panels. Well, the hood is aluminum, but the rest is stamped steel.
Damn! I like it a lot.
I've only had about .5 hours of seat time at this point and I definitely notice the lack of torque vs the M3. However, it is raw - much more raw than the M3, and I like that a lot. The rev limiter seems to shut the VTEC down just as it is coming on the pipe. My intitial impression is that I would want a pre-2004 model as torque is not this car's selling point anyway. We will see but so far, I am smitten.
I will say that the bolt-action shifter in this thing is a work of art. This alone is worth the drive. The throws feel to be no more than an inch, at most.
I love the S2000, JST be damned. The shifter is just one of the things that make it beautiful; it's about as perfect as I've ever experienced, and I simply can't see how anyone will make a better one before the clutch pedal becomes extinct. I also prefer the powerplant in the pre-'04 models, although the suspension modifications in the later models are good to have. As far as space goes...yes, the new ones are a bit roomier, but we're not talking about inches here. I wouldn't let that become a factor.
If I am damned, I hope it is for something better than hating the S2000.
Why would you buy a car missing half of its cylinders?
rumatt
02-27-2005, 08:12 PM
Why would you buy a car missing half of its cylinders?
:lol:
:action:
Why would you buy a car missing half of its cylinders?
Why would you buy a car that has 4 cylinders too many?
Damn! I like it a lot.
I've only had about .5 hours of seat time at this point and I definitely notice the lack of torque vs the M3. However, it is raw - much more raw than the M3, and I like that a lot. The rev limiter seems to shut the VTEC down just as it is coming on the pipe. My intitial impression is that I would want a pre-2004 model as torque is not this car's selling point anyway. We will see but so far, I am smitten.
I will say that the bolt-action shifter in this thing is a work of art. This alone is worth the drive. The throws feel to be no more than an inch, at most.
I love the S2000, JST be damned. The shifter is just one of the things that make it beautiful; it's about as perfect as I've ever experienced, and I simply can't see how anyone will make a better one before the clutch pedal becomes extinct. I also prefer the powerplant in the pre-'04 models, although the suspension modifications in the later models are good to have. As far as space goes...yes, the new ones are a bit roomier, but we're not talking about inches here. I wouldn't let that become a factor.
If I am damned, I hope it is for something better than hating the S2000.
Why would you buy a car missing half of its cylinders?
It has enough power to get out of its own way, even on four.
:P
ARCHER
03-03-2005, 11:16 PM
The M3 remains.
Althought the S2000 was a joy to drive, I decided against it. The tranny is bliss. The suspension is an amazing factory effort that results in a truly go-cart-like connection to the asphalt. Everything about it was right up my alley other than the lack of torque started to become a factor for me on day two. As wonderful as this little package is and as much as I wanted the S2000 to be a slam dunk for me, I definitely missed the torque of my M3.
It's a very cool car - just not cool enough to get me out of mine.
Next...
The M3 remains.
Althought the S2000 was a joy to drive, I decided against it. The tranny is bliss. The suspension is an amazing factory effort that results in a truly go-cart-like connection to the asphalt. Everything about it was right up my alley other than the lack of torque started to become a factor for me on day two. As wonderful as this little package is and as much as I wanted the S2000 to be a slam dunk for me, I definitely missed the torque of my M3.
It's a very cool car - just not cool enough to get me out of mine.
Next...
See my thread.
What is it with these cars that you just can't bring yourself to move on?
rumatt
03-03-2005, 11:30 PM
Interesting.
rumatt
03-03-2005, 11:33 PM
just can't bring yourself to move on?
http://www.moveon.org
:lol:
clyde
03-03-2005, 11:39 PM
Why would you buy a car missing half of its cylinders?
Why have your three most recent cars been missing a quarter of their cylinders?
:dunno:
ARCHER
03-04-2005, 12:33 AM
What is it with these cars that you just can't bring yourself to move on?
Good question.
I wanted to love the S2000 enough to make the jump - enough justify taking on a car payment. After ridding myself of the first-drive rush and I had a chance to take an honest look at the two cars side-by-side, it just didn't move me enough to move me.
I don't know what to make of it other than the E36 M3 is a pretty damned good car.
What is it with these cars that you just can't bring yourself to move on?
Good question.
I wanted to love the S2000 enough to make the jump - enough justify taking on a car payment. After ridding myself of the first-drive rush and I had a chance to take an honest look at the two cars side-by-side, it just didn't move me enough to move me.
I don't know what to make of it other than the E36 M3 is a pretty damned good car.
I wanted to love the S4 enough to make the jump - like you, I wanted to like it enough to justify a car payment. And in the end, it just had too many flaws that the M3 doesn't have.
Let's all cut the BS...
TD, if you had to choose between an S4, 330i ZHP, R32 and an E36 M3/4... all of them BRAND NEW for the same price, which one would you pick?
Same for you Archer, a New E36 M3 or a New S2000 same price.
That is the question. Money, and a car being "worth it" are separate from what is the better car?
Let's all cut the BS...
TD, if you had to choose between an S4, 330i ZHP, R32 and an E36 M3/4 ALL BRAND NEW for the same price, which one would you pick?
Same for you Archer, a New E36 M3 or a New S2000 same price.
That is the question.
Money, and a car being "worth it" is a separate issue.
All brand new? All same price?
E36 M3/4.
That one is too easy.
EDIT:
The problem is that you can't get an M3/4 brand new anymore. The ZHP is the closest thing out there, but it's a bit soft on the low end and has the other flaws that TD articulated.
Let's all cut the BS...
TD, if you had to choose between an S4, 330i ZHP, R32 and an E36 M3/4 ALL BRAND NEW for the same price, which one would you pick?
Same for you Archer, a New E36 M3 or a New S2000 same price.
That is the question.
Money, and a car being "worth it" is a separate issue.
All brand new? All same price?
E36 M3/4.
That one is too easy.
TD has to answer the question.
Let's all cut the BS...
TD, if you had to choose between an S4, 330i ZHP, R32 and an E36 M3/4 ALL BRAND NEW for the same price, which one would you pick?
Same for you Archer, a New E36 M3 or a New S2000 same price.
That is the question.
Money, and a car being "worth it" is a separate issue.
All brand new? All same price?
E36 M3/4.
That one is too easy.
TD has to answer the question.
I won't speak for him, though I bet his answer is the same as mine.
The question, though, is moot, because you can't get a brand new M3, and what TD wants is a new car.
clyde
03-04-2005, 12:14 PM
The question, though, is moot, because you can't get a brand new M3, and what TD wants is a new car.
They also aren't all the same price (which was part of the setup). It's a fine question to ask if you can divorce yourself from the age and price considerations because it should help crystalize certain aspects of the cars that you might have been looking at through the price/age prism, and thus help you figure out what you really do and don't like. From there, it may be easier to weight those things to take price/age into account.
I know that TD likes what he has done to setup his M3, but I also wonder if he might be happier starting over with a different M3/4. Maybe one with fewer miles than his currently has... Maybe one from a single owner who kept meticulous records and has a more verifiable past than what someone might wind up with on a used car from a dealer... Maybe one in a color that he'd prefer over Cosmos... :dunno:
My best guess is that he needs to scratch another itch and move on to a car that he hasn't owned before. It's fun to watch. :D
Basically if I could buy a brand new E36 M3/4 with the body of an S4 or ZHP draped over it (something current but still handsome and reserved - no garish E60-like crap) and an updated interior inside with maybe a gadget or two (not NAV or i-drive though - maybe something like integrated satellite radio and an in-dash CD player) and some trim brightwork to liven things up a bit, no heavier than my current car, I'd buy it this afternoon. Basically I want a car (brand new) that drives EXACTLY like mine does that also looks "current" and offers the same combination of performance and practicality that mine does (maybe throw in fold-down seats too). And with a few extrqa horsepower.
So JST is correct. Given those choices, it's totally a no-brainer. I'd take the new E36 M3/4. But, ideally, I want what I just described. And I know it doesn't exist.
So what do I want more- Something new or the drive characteristics of my car?
Roadstergal
03-04-2005, 01:40 PM
The shifter is indeed a work of art. I've felt none better.
I have. ;)
Basically if I could buy a brand new E36 M3/4 with the body of an S4 or ZHP draped over it (something current but still handsome and reserved - no garish E60-like crap) and an updated interior inside with maybe a gadget or two (not NAV or i-drive though - maybe something like integrated satellite radio and an in-dash CD player) and some trim brightwork to liven things up a bit, no heavier than my current car, I'd buy it this afternoon. Basically I want a car (brand new) that drives EXACTLY like mine does that also looks "current" and offers the same combination of performance and practicality that mine does (maybe throw in fold-down seats too).
So JST is correct. Given those choices, it's totally a no-brainer. I'd take the new E36 M3/4. But, ideally, I want what I just described. And I know it doesn't exist.
So what do I want more- Something new or the drive characteristics of my car?
TD.
You need to drive the G35, which I know you think is ugly, but which fits your bill of particulars in nearly every other respect.
So what do I want more- Something new or the drive characteristics of my car?
...we're waiting...
:D
So what do I want more- Something new or the drive characteristics of my car?
...we're waiting...
:D
Don't hold your breath.
You need to drive the G35, which I know you think is ugly, but which fits your bill of particulars in nearly every other respect.
http://images.radcity.net/5147/502991.jpg
Basically if I could buy a brand new E36 M3/4 with the body of an S4 or ZHP draped over it (something current but still handsome and reserved - no garish E60-like crap) and an updated interior inside with maybe a gadget or two (not NAV or i-drive though - maybe something like integrated satellite radio and an in-dash CD player) and some trim brightwork to liven things up a bit, no heavier than my current car, I'd buy it this afternoon. Basically I want a car (brand new) that drives EXACTLY like mine does that also looks "current" and offers the same combination of performance and practicality that mine does (maybe throw in fold-down seats too).
So JST is correct. Given those choices, it's totally a no-brainer. I'd take the new E36 M3/4. But, ideally, I want what I just described. And I know it doesn't exist.
So what do I want more- Something new or the drive characteristics of my car?
TD.
You need to drive the G35, which I know you think is ugly, but which fits your bill of particulars in nearly every other respect.
It really is ugly, both inside and out. Plaz is spot on with the reference to the boombox. Lots o' silver plastic inside that thing.
ARCHER
03-05-2005, 05:35 PM
Same for you Archer, a New E36 M3 or a New S2000 same price.
E36 M3.
Okay kids, what's wrong with this picture?
Actually, that was me - forgot to log on. :P
For me, that question is a no brainer. FWIW, I am taking practicality and everything else out of the equation because the 'Disco is our dedicated family hauler. The bottom line is that the S2000 didn't have the torque to move me. My car does the things I want it to do and does them very well.
The S2000 is a fantastic car but aside from being able to take the top down, it wasn't that great of a leap, on every front, from my current daily.
Now, if the difference in torque was less drastic, I might be driving the S2000 right now instead of talking to you knuckleheads.
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