View Full Version : Took the Saab on a roadtrip...
One word- Nice
The car is great on the highway, quiet, low RPMs at speed, and very eager to pull when trying to pass, plus tons of space. And very comfortable. And I could adjust the seat any way I wanted (even into a nap friendly position - yes, as a passenger) without worrying about the kid located behind me. Space can be a really good thing.
I know it's sacriledge to say this on a BMW board, but I really like this Saab. Sure it's not going to be the first choice for autox or track events. But for everyday type stuff, it is a great everyday car for an enthusiast.
We also had XM along for the ride (via a tape deck adapter and cigarette lighter power source - the low-fi approach) and the merits of hearing uninterrupted good music as you drive between metropolitan areas is more or less priceless. I'm looking forward to being able to do a more permanent (and higher-fi) install. (Come on Blitzsafe, where's that adapter?)
And I still plan to autox it at least once. Just to see how it feels.
lemming
10-26-2003, 08:58 PM
ahem.
some of "us" are waiting for information to send you accessories for said saab.
ps. isn't the aero a great highway car? it RIPS.
ahem.
some of "us" are waiting for information to send you accessories for said saab.
ps. isn't the aero a great highway car? it RIPS.
It really did gobble miles in comfort. For the role we bought it to fill, it seems to be perfect.
ahem.
some of "us" are waiting for information to send you accessories for said saab.
ps. isn't the aero a great highway car? it RIPS.
It really did gobble miles in comfort. For the role we bought it to fill, it seems to be perfect.
Good to hear. I'm glad you found the right car, and I'm looking forward to seeing it.
Keith
10-26-2003, 09:58 PM
Way to go, good to here your enjoying the car.
I'd like to see some more shots of the car, inside and out.
I've never seen that car before, other than the shot you took with the "other" wheels.
Masskrug
10-27-2003, 01:05 PM
One word- Nice
The car is great on the highway, quiet, low RPMs at speed, and very eager to pull when trying to pass, plus tons of space. And very comfortable. And I could adjust the seat any way I wanted (even into a nap friendly position - yes, as a passenger) without worrying about the kid located behind me. Space can be a really good thing.
I know it's sacriledge to say this on a BMW board, but I really like this Saab. Sure it's not going to be the first choice for autox or track events. But for everyday type stuff, it is a great everyday car for an enthusiast.
We also had XM along for the ride (via a tape deck adapter and cigarette lighter power source - the low-fi approach) and the merits of hearing uninterrupted good music as you drive between metropolitan areas is more or less priceless. I'm looking forward to being able to do a more permanent (and higher-fi) install. (Come on Blitzsafe, where's that adapter?)
And I still plan to autox it at least once. Just to see how it feels.
If I said all these things about a X5, would that still make me reviled?
lemming
10-27-2003, 01:17 PM
One word- Nice
The car is great on the highway, quiet, low RPMs at speed, and very eager to pull when trying to pass, plus tons of space. And very comfortable. And I could adjust the seat any way I wanted (even into a nap friendly position - yes, as a passenger) without worrying about the kid located behind me. Space can be a really good thing.
I know it's sacriledge to say this on a BMW board, but I really like this Saab. Sure it's not going to be the first choice for autox or track events. But for everyday type stuff, it is a great everyday car for an enthusiast.
We also had XM along for the ride (via a tape deck adapter and cigarette lighter power source - the low-fi approach) and the merits of hearing uninterrupted good music as you drive between metropolitan areas is more or less priceless. I'm looking forward to being able to do a more permanent (and higher-fi) install. (Come on Blitzsafe, where's that adapter?)
And I still plan to autox it at least once. Just to see how it feels.
If I said all these things about a X5, would that still make me reviled?
oh, i don't think so.
the only thing you'd hear from a wisea$$ like me is: he has more space, paid about half, has much better acceleration and probably better braking..........as would be what one would expect when comparing a real station wagon to a minivan..... :D
just something to poke fun at you about (you can take it).
Masskrug
10-27-2003, 01:25 PM
oh, i don't think so.
the only thing you'd hear from a wisea$$ like me is: he has more space, paid about half, has much better acceleration and probably better braking..........as would be what one would expect when comparing a real station wagon to a minivan..... :D
just something to poke fun at you about (you can take it).
More cargo space yes. I bet I have more passenger space.
EDIT: X5 70->0 in 170 feet. Better than a 330.
Acceleration 0->60 in 8.1 s. Not bad, not great.
(I have broad shoulders. Bring it on!)
oh, i don't think so.
the only thing you'd hear from a wisea$$ like me is: he has more space, paid about half, has much better acceleration and probably better braking..........as would be what one would expect when comparing a real station wagon to a minivan..... :D
just something to poke fun at you about (you can take it).
More cargo space yes. I bet I have more passenger space.
X5 60->0 in 170 feet. Better than a 330.
Acceleration 0->60 in 8.1 s. Not bad, not great.
(I have broad shoulders. Bring it on!)
I can look up specs, but I know that the Saab has more HP and a lot mroe torque, weighs a lot less and has a lower center of gravity. It also has bigger brakes, MUCH more cargo room and, I believe, more passenger space. And it gets better gas mileage to boot.
Oh yeah, and what pDz said. I paid about half.
lemming
10-27-2003, 01:48 PM
oh, i don't think so.
the only thing you'd hear from a wisea$$ like me is: he has more space, paid about half, has much better acceleration and probably better braking..........as would be what one would expect when comparing a real station wagon to a minivan..... :D
just something to poke fun at you about (you can take it).
More cargo space yes. I bet I have more passenger space.
X5 60->0 in 170 feet. Better than a 330.
Acceleration 0->60 in 8.1 s. Not bad, not great.
(I have broad shoulders. Bring it on!)
I can look up specs, but I know that the Saab has more HP and a lot mroe torque, weighs a lot less and has a lower center of gravity. It also has bigger brakes, MUCH more cargo room and, I believe, more passenger space. And it gets better gas mileage to boot.
Oh yeah, and what pDz said. I paid about half.
i didn't want to steal your thunder, so i waited because i knew you'd reply in kind with the data.
:lol:
Nick M3
10-27-2003, 02:18 PM
Depending on tires, the 325/328/330 got from 60 to zero in 118-130 feet. ;)
Not 170.
lemming
10-27-2003, 02:31 PM
Depending on tires, the 325/328/330 got from 60 to zero in 118-130 feet. ;)
Not 170.
it's hard to find a dataset from one magazine right now, maybe when i get home.
but, i would imagine that, paradoxically, the x5 4.4 would brake better since they equip the faster ones with better binders?
it is also highly dependent on tire compound, i realize. but it isn't a stretch to say that it's a lot easier to stop 3600 pounds than it is to stop 4600 with basically the same rotor swept area and same contact patch on the road.
i think the only issue with the aero at an autocross would be terminal understeer and lacking a torsen diff., it has so much torque you'd lose time because of spinning tires.
Depending on tires, the 325/328/330 got from 60 to zero in 118-130 feet. ;)
Not 170.
it's hard to find a dataset from one magazine right now, maybe when i get home.
but, i would imagine that, paradoxically, the x5 4.4 would brake better since they equip the faster ones with better binders?
it is also highly dependent on tire compound, i realize. but it isn't a stretch to say that it's a lot easier to stop 3600 pounds than it is to stop 4600 with basically the same rotor swept area and same contact patch on the road.
i think the only issue with the aero at an autocross would be terminal understeer and lacking a torsen diff., it has so much torque you'd lose time because of spinning tires.
Yup. Those suckers spin easily. Then the TCS (think DSC) light starts flashing like mad.
lemming
10-27-2003, 02:35 PM
Depending on tires, the 325/328/330 got from 60 to zero in 118-130 feet. ;)
Not 170.
it's hard to find a dataset from one magazine right now, maybe when i get home.
but, i would imagine that, paradoxically, the x5 4.4 would brake better since they equip the faster ones with better binders?
it is also highly dependent on tire compound, i realize. but it isn't a stretch to say that it's a lot easier to stop 3600 pounds than it is to stop 4600 with basically the same rotor swept area and same contact patch on the road.
i think the only issue with the aero at an autocross would be terminal understeer and lacking a torsen diff., it has so much torque you'd lose time because of spinning tires.
Yup. Those suckers spin easily. Then the TCS (think DSC) light starts flashing like mad.
can't speak for the aero as "we" owned the 185hp 2.3lpt wagon (5 speed), but i never got stuck in the snow, even when i was trying. :D
are the tires on the car all seasons or summers only, TD? let me recommend to you my new best friend, the PZero Nero M+S.......
Masskrug
10-27-2003, 02:48 PM
Depending on tires, the 325/328/330 got from 60 to zero in 118-130 feet. ;)
Not 170.
Ooops, my bad.
I am quoting C&D data. They test braking from 70 mph. The 330i took 180+ feet to the 170+ of the 330i. Again, tires would definitely influence this, but the X's wear all seasons, so potentially braker shorter with hi-po tires (but lose their utility).
Masskrug
10-27-2003, 02:53 PM
I can look up specs, but I know that the Saab has more HP and a lot mroe torque, weighs a lot less and has a lower center of gravity. It also has bigger brakes, MUCH more cargo room and, I believe, more passenger space. And it gets better gas mileage to boot.
Oh yeah, and what pDz said. I paid about half.
I think your Saab is great!
Not trying to turn this into my X vs your Saab debate re: the pros/cons of each.
I am just trying to dispel the close-mindedness that can go on on enthusiast boards.
lemming
10-27-2003, 03:10 PM
I can look up specs, but I know that the Saab has more HP and a lot mroe torque, weighs a lot less and has a lower center of gravity. It also has bigger brakes, MUCH more cargo room and, I believe, more passenger space. And it gets better gas mileage to boot.
Oh yeah, and what pDz said. I paid about half.
I think your Saab is great!
Not trying to turn this into my X vs your Saab debate re: the pros/cons of each.
I am just trying to dispel the close-mindedness that can go on on enthusiast boards.
hey man, i'm not closed minded, i'm just a car guy.
i've owned four SUVs myself and don't necessarily have a problem with them being so prevalent; i just think it's time to start treating them like the govts treat cars. the revenue can't hurt, can it?
i have, however, come to the conclusion that for 99.99% of the things that i need to get done, a station wagon gets it done for me --if i ever need a tow vehicle, i'd likely get a full size pickup. (this paradigm is fully predicated on a three car group of vehicles).
:box:
Masskrug, what you should have said was that the X5 is a better snow (especially deep) vehicle.
Ground clearance + ADB-X are quite good in the white stuff.
But, then again, that wasn't an issue for TD...
Masskrug
10-27-2003, 03:37 PM
Masskrug, what you should have said was that the X5 is a better snow (especially deep) vehicle.
Ground clearance + ADB-X are quite good in the white stuff.
But, then again, that wasn't an issue for TD...
I'm not really trying to point out what makes one vehicle better than the other. That's how flame wars and drama start.
I think the X5 is a great vehicle on its OWN merits, that's all. But one needs to be open minded to see them.
The clearance/4WD/ADB/HDC thing is ALSO great to powerslide around dirt roads rally style (wheeee! I'm a Finn!) exploring Oregon wine country.
lemming
10-27-2003, 04:26 PM
Masskrug, what you should have said was that the X5 is a better snow (especially deep) vehicle.
Ground clearance + ADB-X are quite good in the white stuff.
But, then again, that wasn't an issue for TD...
I'm not really trying to point out what makes one vehicle better than the other. That's how flame wars and drama start.
I think the X5 is a great vehicle on its OWN merits, that's all. But one needs to be open minded to see them.
The clearance/4WD/ADB/HDC thing is ALSO great to powerslide around dirt roads rally style (wheeee! I'm a Finn!) exploring Oregon wine country.
look, i don't think this is about what vehicle is better than the other, either.
if you look at the history, or if you know the history, it speaks to BMWUSA's incredible stupidity that they cannot get a decent station wagon in the US. the 325iT or 325xiT are "okay"; underpowered to an extent and smallish --not necessary to say pricey. the 525iT is ridiculous. slow & expensive. the 540iT is just flat out expensive. and it does not offer something that all of its competitors offer: all wheel drive.
it's retarded that there was never a 330iT or a 530iT. to depend on the X5 to fulfill that role is just plain greedy because BMW knows that they get more per car (as it is assembled in the US) selling X5s.......but they would have broadened their fan base if they offered the 330iT or 530iT.
all i have to do is look around the roads in boston to tell you that, every single day. there are oodles and oodles of 2.8 Avants and A6 3.0's (sedan and WAGON) on the road. not to mention that 95% of the E wagons i see are 4matic.
so: to recap, if you assess the market like TD or i would, BMW's offerings are paltry. so he got a steal of a wagon that has an interior likely nicer than most BMW interiors (except for the carpeting, i hate saab interior carpeting) and more HP than any BMW configuration except for the V8 powered 540iT or X5 4.4 --with more useful cargo space.
it's a no brainer.
it's not that the X5 here isn't as good, it's just flat out the wrong "answer" for a lot of people and BMW was being lazy and greedy about filling market niches.
Keith
10-27-2003, 05:15 PM
Masskrug, what you should have said was that the X5 is a better snow (especially deep) vehicle.
Ground clearance + ADB-X are quite good in the white stuff.
But, then again, that wasn't an issue for TD...
I'm not really trying to point out what makes one vehicle better than the other. That's how flame wars and drama start.
I think the X5 is a great vehicle on its OWN merits, that's all. But one needs to be open minded to see them.
The clearance/4WD/ADB/HDC thing is ALSO great to powerslide around dirt roads rally style (wheeee! I'm a Finn!) exploring Oregon wine country.
WINE, did someone say Wine??????? :mrgreen:
Masskrug
10-27-2003, 05:22 PM
WINE, did someone say Wine??????? :mrgreen:
Do you like Oregon Pinot Noirs?
look, i don't think this is about what vehicle is better than the other, either.
if you look at the history, or if you know the history, it speaks to BMWUSA's incredible stupidity that they cannot get a decent station wagon in the US. the 325iT or 325xiT are "okay"; underpowered to an extent and smallish --not necessary to say pricey. the 525iT is ridiculous. slow & expensive. the 540iT is just flat out expensive. and it does not offer something that all of its competitors offer: all wheel drive.
it's retarded that there was never a 330iT or a 530iT. to depend on the X5 to fulfill that role is just plain greedy because BMW knows that they get more per car (as it is assembled in the US) selling X5s.......but they would have broadened their fan base if they offered the 330iT or 530iT.
all i have to do is look around the roads in boston to tell you that, every single day. there are oodles and oodles of 2.8 Avants and A6 3.0's (sedan and WAGON) on the road. not to mention that 95% of the E wagons i see are 4matic.
so: to recap, if you assess the market like TD or i would, BMW's offerings are paltry. so he got a steal of a wagon that has an interior likely nicer than most BMW interiors (except for the carpeting, i hate saab interior carpeting) and more HP than any BMW configuration except for the V8 powered 540iT or X5 4.4 --with more useful cargo space.
it's a no brainer.
it's not that the X5 here isn't as good, it's just flat out the wrong "answer" for a lot of people and BMW was being lazy and greedy about filling market niches.
They obviously don't think that it will make money.
Why do you think that they sould "fill market niches" if the economics just are not there?
Keith
10-27-2003, 05:45 PM
WINE, did someone say Wine??????? :mrgreen:
Do you like Oregon Pinot Noirs?
I've never tried it, but Doug brought something down from Washington, what was that you brought down Doug?
Since the Wifey works at Wente, she's got me hooked on the their Syrah, Duetto, Merlot and the Cabernet Reserve.
You know it's funny, those are all reds and I NEVER used to drink reds.
This must be what happens when you get "older"! :cry:
look, i don't think this is about what vehicle is better than the other, either.
if you look at the history, or if you know the history, it speaks to BMWUSA's incredible stupidity that they cannot get a decent station wagon in the US. the 325iT or 325xiT are "okay"; underpowered to an extent and smallish --not necessary to say pricey. the 525iT is ridiculous. slow & expensive. the 540iT is just flat out expensive. and it does not offer something that all of its competitors offer: all wheel drive.
it's retarded that there was never a 330iT or a 530iT. to depend on the X5 to fulfill that role is just plain greedy because BMW knows that they get more per car (as it is assembled in the US) selling X5s.......but they would have broadened their fan base if they offered the 330iT or 530iT.
all i have to do is look around the roads in boston to tell you that, every single day. there are oodles and oodles of 2.8 Avants and A6 3.0's (sedan and WAGON) on the road. not to mention that 95% of the E wagons i see are 4matic.
so: to recap, if you assess the market like TD or i would, BMW's offerings are paltry. so he got a steal of a wagon that has an interior likely nicer than most BMW interiors (except for the carpeting, i hate saab interior carpeting) and more HP than any BMW configuration except for the V8 powered 540iT or X5 4.4 --with more useful cargo space.
it's a no brainer.
it's not that the X5 here isn't as good, it's just flat out the wrong "answer" for a lot of people and BMW was being lazy and greedy about filling market niches.
They obviously don't think that it will make money.
Why do you think that they sould "fill market niches" if the economics just are not there?
I think pDz's point is that they make *more* money by selling the X5 to consumers who would otherwise consider a 330iT or a 530iT. Obviously, BMW isn't in the business as a charity, so that's what they have to do. It doesn't make it any less frustrating to know that there is a car that would perfectly fit your needs that BMW won't sell you because they'd rather you buy an X5.
lemming
10-28-2003, 09:44 AM
look, i don't think this is about what vehicle is better than the other, either.
if you look at the history, or if you know the history, it speaks to BMWUSA's incredible stupidity that they cannot get a decent station wagon in the US. the 325iT or 325xiT are "okay"; underpowered to an extent and smallish --not necessary to say pricey. the 525iT is ridiculous. slow & expensive. the 540iT is just flat out expensive. and it does not offer something that all of its competitors offer: all wheel drive.
it's retarded that there was never a 330iT or a 530iT. to depend on the X5 to fulfill that role is just plain greedy because BMW knows that they get more per car (as it is assembled in the US) selling X5s.......but they would have broadened their fan base if they offered the 330iT or 530iT.
all i have to do is look around the roads in boston to tell you that, every single day. there are oodles and oodles of 2.8 Avants and A6 3.0's (sedan and WAGON) on the road. not to mention that 95% of the E wagons i see are 4matic.
so: to recap, if you assess the market like TD or i would, BMW's offerings are paltry. so he got a steal of a wagon that has an interior likely nicer than most BMW interiors (except for the carpeting, i hate saab interior carpeting) and more HP than any BMW configuration except for the V8 powered 540iT or X5 4.4 --with more useful cargo space.
it's a no brainer.
it's not that the X5 here isn't as good, it's just flat out the wrong "answer" for a lot of people and BMW was being lazy and greedy about filling market niches.
They obviously don't think that it will make money.
Why do you think that they sould "fill market niches" if the economics just are not there?
my sole rebuttal, college boy, is that they offer the 330iT in the UK but not here.
so it isn't as though they don't offer the car. it exists, and it isn't rare a la CSL.
:D
so it isn't as though they don't offer the car. it exists, and it isn't rare a la CSL.
:D
how many 330iT's have been produced and sold?
lemming
10-28-2003, 10:39 AM
so it isn't as though they don't offer the car. it exists, and it isn't rare a la CSL.
:D
how many 330iT's have been produced and sold?
that's a great question. someone like a.baumann would know.
hard to translate what sells on the continent to what will sell in the us, especially with the added factor that the continent also has that great 3.0d engine.
i guess my attitude, if i were a BMW employee is, that people growing in affluence but need some element of practicality are the target for 3 series wagons, but for some reason, the X5 or 5 series wagon is not the cup of tea. even if margins are lower (german built car), it's a potential conquest transaction or buyer locked into the marque.
get 'em young. get 'em early.
so it isn't as though they don't offer the car. it exists, and it isn't rare a la CSL.
:D
how many 330iT's have been produced and sold?
that's a great question. someone like a.baumann would know.
hard to translate what sells on the continent to what will sell in the us, especially with the added factor that the continent also has that great 3.0d engine.
I remember Alex saying that the X5 has been one of the hottest/most wanted vehicles over there. Long waitlists.
Would be interesting to see the 330iT sales #s, and how they were affected by X5 sales.
Roadstergal
10-28-2003, 10:57 AM
I am just trying to dispel the close-mindedness that can go on on enthusiast boards.
:?
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