E46 question for Sarafil

[SCA]

What kind of discounts are currently being given on 2005 330 sedans?

Edit: Specifically ZHP

TIA :smile:

[rumatt]

Why, is Nick looking for another?

[JST]

Why, is Nick looking for another?

He needs a red one.

Maybe he can buy mbr's.

[killerdeck]

Dont know for currently, although I bet it should get good here real quick. My dealers lot has about 6-8 4-doors and 2 2 doors. If my purchase last year at this time is any indication, it should be good. I pay $490 a month for 15K/36 month lease with 59% residual, $2500 down (signed last February). Good luck!

[wdc330i]

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=86255

$3,800.

[FC]

Why, is Nick looking for another?

He needs a red one.

Maybe he can buy mbr's.

Not for sale. :mad:

Well, for the right amount of money... :D

[wdc330i]

Imola is the best color.

[TD]

Not if you drive like I do.

[rumatt]

Not if you drive like I do.

Poorly?

[Plaz]

Not if you drive like I do.

Poorly?

Ouch!

I'll never get another red car either, for the same reason.

[wdc330i]

Do you really believe red is a cop magnet?

Hmmm. My current car is black--and all my other cars have been low-key colors....

[Plaz]

Do you really believe red is a cop magnet?

Hmmm. My current car is black--and all my other cars have been low-key colors....

I don't think red is a cop magnet for the average driver... but for the average 90mph+ driver, it's a risk factor just not worth taking. (Especially if it's with daily VA stints like TD)

[wdc330i]

Darn. Waste of a great color.

(BTW, looks like your car was pulled over by the authorities in your pic.)

[SARAFIL]

What kind of discounts are currently being given on 2005 330 sedans?

Edit: Specifically ZHP

TIA :smile:

Figuring the "normal" ~$1500 over invoice that most people claim that they get, and assuming you know about the $3800 incentive, you can get a pretty good deal on one.

Looking for another E46?

[SCA]

What kind of discounts are currently being given on 2005 330 sedans?

Edit: Specifically ZHP

TIA :smile:

Figuring the "normal" ~$1500 over invoice that most people claim that they get, and assuming you know about the $3800 incentive, you can get a pretty good deal on one.

Looking for another E46?

I'm not...possibly my brother. Drove a 330i ZHP today along with a leftover 04 M3 Convertible. So...there is currently a $3800 incentive? Does this include all E46 sedans on the ground, in transit and in the pipeline for production this month (last month of E46 sedan production)?

[SARAFIL]

What kind of discounts are currently being given on 2005 330 sedans?

Edit: Specifically ZHP

TIA :smile:

Figuring the "normal" ~$1500 over invoice that most people claim that they get, and assuming you know about the $3800 incentive, you can get a pretty good deal on one.

Looking for another E46?

I'm not...possibly my brother. Drove a 330i ZHP today along with a leftover 04 M3 Convertible. So...there is currently a $3800 incentive? Does this include all E46 sedans on the ground, in transit and in the pipeline for production this month (last month of E46 sedan production)?

$3800 incentive offer valid on any 330i that is retailed prior to 2/28. It doesn't matter where it is right now, it just has to be "punched" by the close of business on 2/28 to qualify. And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.

[SCA]

What kind of discounts are currently being given on 2005 330 sedans?

Edit: Specifically ZHP

TIA :smile:

Figuring the "normal" ~$1500 over invoice that most people claim that they get, and assuming you know about the $3800 incentive, you can get a pretty good deal on one.

Looking for another E46?

I'm not...possibly my brother. Drove a 330i ZHP today along with a leftover 04 M3 Convertible. So...there is currently a $3800 incentive? Does this include all E46 sedans on the ground, in transit and in the pipeline for production this month (last month of E46 sedan production)?

$3800 incentive offer valid on any 330i that is retailed prior to 2/28. It doesn't matter where it is right now, it just has to be "punched" by the close of business on 2/28 to qualify. And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.

Thanks... :thumbup: :thumbup: Please keep me posted if they extend it.

[SCA]

And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.


What do you think the likely hood of that happening is? Obviously pure speculation.

[SARAFIL]

And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.


What do you think the likely hood of that happening is? Obviously pure speculation.

I'd speculate that they'll keep offering the incentives through March or April, to ensure that all the remaining stock of E46 sedans are sold.

[lip277]

And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.


What do you think the likely hood of that happening is? Obviously pure speculation.

I'd speculate that they'll keep offering the incentives through March or April, to ensure that all the remaining stock of E46 sedans are sold.

If they're anything like the deal my Dad got on his 2001 E38 when the'new' 7-series was comming......... :smile:
I think he got his car for ~$17,000 off MSRP in July of 2001.

Not that you'll get that amount... Just an FYI thing here.....

[SARAFIL]

And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.


What do you think the likely hood of that happening is? Obviously pure speculation.

I'd speculate that they'll keep offering the incentives through March or April, to ensure that all the remaining stock of E46 sedans are sold.

If they're anything like the deal my Dad got on his 2001 E38 when the'new' 7-series was comming......... :smile:
I think he got his car for ~$17,000 off MSRP in July of 2001.

Not that you'll get that amount... Just an FYI thing here.....

Don't count on that. Inventories are pretty low for a volume car like the 3-series. I think BMW did a good job planning the sell-out, and they won't have many problems selling these cars. By keeping the programs where they are, or maybe slightly better, BMW will sell everything they have in stock. They won't need to come out with much more in the way of incentives, in my opinion.

[SCA]

And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.


What do you think the likely hood of that happening is? Obviously pure speculation.

I'd speculate that they'll keep offering the incentives through March or April, to ensure that all the remaining stock of E46 sedans are sold.

CRAP! Must..resist...urge...to...buy...another...E46. :wutblau:

[lip277]

And, who knows-- that may be extended through March also.


What do you think the likely hood of that happening is? Obviously pure speculation.

I'd speculate that they'll keep offering the incentives through March or April, to ensure that all the remaining stock of E46 sedans are sold.

If they're anything like the deal my Dad got on his 2001 E38 when the'new' 7-series was comming......... :smile:
I think he got his car for ~$17,000 off MSRP in July of 2001.

Not that you'll get that amount... Just an FYI thing here.....

Don't count on that. Inventories are pretty low for a volume car like the 3-series. I think BMW did a good job planning the sell-out, and they won't have many problems selling these cars. By keeping the programs where they are, or maybe slightly better, BMW will sell everything they have in stock. They won't need to come out with much more in the way of incentives, in my opinion.

I know... It was just that when the E60 was being introduced there evidently were many nervous BMWNA exectuvies that made sure there were NO new E38's sitting in showrooms when the E60 hit the streets.....
From what my Dad told me, the dealership was directed to have ALL E38's gone by a certain time in preperation for the new car. This really was a boon to his checkbook as far as I could tell. Looks like they may have learned from that experience. That and the E46 moves more briskly I assume as the cost of admission is less.....

[clyde]

I know... It was just that when the E60 was being introduced there evidently were many nervous BMWNA exectuvies that made sure there were NO new E38's sitting in showrooms when the E60 hit the streets.....
From what my Dad told me, the dealership was directed to have ALL E38's gone by a certain time in preperation for the new car. This really was a boon to his checkbook as far as I could tell. Looks like they may have learned from that experience. That and the E46 moves more briskly I assume as the cost of admission is less.....

The E90 is a lot less controversial and polarizing than the E65 and E60. When you have a product coming out that you're a little unsure of and it's replacing something that was well recieved through its lifespan, you don't want the two to be sitting side by side at the store. You're not so much concerned with getting rid of old inventory as you are highlighting and selling the new product. (Dealers may be more concerned with moving out the old inventory to prevent/minimize flooring charges, but that's a different issue.)

[lemming]

I know... It was just that when the E60 was being introduced there evidently were many nervous BMWNA exectuvies that made sure there were NO new E38's sitting in showrooms when the E60 hit the streets.....
From what my Dad told me, the dealership was directed to have ALL E38's gone by a certain time in preperation for the new car. This really was a boon to his checkbook as far as I could tell. Looks like they may have learned from that experience. That and the E46 moves more briskly I assume as the cost of admission is less.....

The E90 is a lot less controversial and polarizing than the E65 and E60. When you have a product coming out that you're a little unsure of and it's replacing something that was well recieved through its lifespan, you don't want the two to be sitting side by side at the store. You're not so much concerned with getting rid of old inventory as you are highlighting and selling the new product. (Dealers may be more concerned with moving out the old inventory to prevent/minimize flooring charges, but that's a different issue.)

i can already tell you boys that i'd rather have an e90 even before i drive it over any e46 any day of the year.

the car is same weight with more power. it can't get any more numb than the e46 and it's likely a better chassis, too. and they might have even addressed issues like the window regulators.

i'm just looking for an excuse to be brought back into the BMW fold but until the power to weight ratios improve, there's no way. why would i give up speed for a Roundel badge?

[TD]

it can't get any more numb than the e46

That's a bet I might be willing to take.

[lemming]

it can't get any more numb than the e46

That's a bet I might be willing to take.

as the e36 will be remembered for its rear suspension, the e46 will be memorable for.....the beginning of the bangle era.

and the e90 will stay the course or 'regress' back to BMW's dynamic roots. the upped engine outputs as well as emphasis on saving weight point to this. they have to stop the short term bleeding.

[Rob]

it can't get any more numb than the e46

That's a bet I might be willing to take.

Me too. Have you driven a buick lately? They have lots more numbness they can build in. Add on the bs technology they are throwing in . . .

[TD]

it can't get any more numb than the e46

That's a bet I might be willing to take.

as the e36 will be remembered for its rear suspension, the e46 will be memorable for.....the beginning of the bangle era.

and the e90 will stay the course or 'regress' back to BMW's dynamic roots. the upped engine outputs as well as emphasis on saving weight point to this. they have to stop the short term bleeding.

Do you think they think they are bleeding? I'm not sure. They haven't been hurt too badly on sales yet thanks to the sales of the X3 uber-lemming-mobile. So a typical blinded-by-his-own-brilliance exec at BMWAG might actually think things are rosy.

[Rob]

I have a friend that has a 330 coupe. He took it in for service the other day and got an X3 loaner.

He likes it. :roll:

[SCA]

Any trunk money on 04 M3s? I know that BMW is offering the 2.9% on the 04's.

[lemming]

it can't get any more numb than the e46

That's a bet I might be willing to take.

as the e36 will be remembered for its rear suspension, the e46 will be memorable for.....the beginning of the bangle era.

and the e90 will stay the course or 'regress' back to BMW's dynamic roots. the upped engine outputs as well as emphasis on saving weight point to this. they have to stop the short term bleeding.

Do you think they think they are bleeding? I'm not sure. They haven't been hurt too badly on sales yet thanks to the sales of the X3 uber-lemming-mobile. So a typical blinded-by-his-own-brilliance exec at BMWAG might actually think things are rosy.

BMW likes to spin its numbers, but the executives live in fear (all of them do anyway). when your sales gains are because of a bastardized assembled by subcontractors x3 and the Mini and you are, at your core, a car company, you are worried. sure, the 7 series sales never mean much anyway. fine. the 5 series.....that hits closer to home because usually the 5er sells in enough numbers and its inherent margins are so nice it's the most profitable car. when it is selling in the US behind the last 3 years of the e39, you're slightly worried, but hoping for an uptick. the z4? who could have predicted that one? the z3 was polarizing, too, but not in this league. the z4 is a sales failure and while it is not all that worrisome because the numbers aren't that great, usually it's a nice margin vehicle.

the x5 is doing okay. but again, if you had a choice and were a badgewhore and could choose between the all new MB M class or the stuttgart badge.....which one would you choose? i still sense that nouveaux types still crave the tri-star and the stuttgart badge because those badges in america have a way of saying "made it" whereas BMW still says, to some extent "am on my way to making it".

there, in a nutshell, is why they would be worried about the e90 launch, even more so than normally just because it's the volume seller. currency unfavorability plus still high labor costs plus high techno content which costs a lot of money to impinge on margins even more.

yeah, for all of these reasons, i think they will execute on the e90.

porsche got lucky with its piss poor execution of the 996 but they got it right with the 997 --even then the boxster and cayenne saved their asses. BMW has plenty of vehicles to save them, but their core needs a reason to stay with them because je ne sais pas-valuation still favors MB and sybaritic seekers will prefer audi. if they cannot execute on being the ultimate driving machine and get outdone by infiniti, AMG and audi S, it's frankly, embarassing.

i'm still a huge BMW fan and to be honest, i all of the new cars; but none of those cars really matter as much as the "3". if the "3" is soft, then you're going to depend on the x3 and mini to carry you indefinitely? the mini still only sells 40,000 per year. and the margins are slim. that's not the answer. the x3 margins are nice, but currency is killing bmw unless they raise the price on it even more. and an x3 3.0 is already more than an e46 330. significantly --for the automotive equivalent of a mass produced kit car.

the e90 will be a great car because it has to be. and i'll bet you that dealers need it to be a great car because their margins are tied to BMW's margins. mini sales and x3 sales are not as nice as robust 3, 5, 7 and z4 sales.

it's for the same reason that i think the 2nd gen. x5 will be excellent, also.

[rumatt]

wow. good analysis! :shock:

[clyde]

the mini still only sells 40,000 per year. and the margins are slim.

Um, are you sure that there is a margin on the MINI...in the right direction, that is?

[SCA]

Still resisting the urge. I was offered a deal that is definitely hard to refuse. :speechle: :kekeke: :jawdrop: :trink6:

[SARAFIL]

Any trunk money on 04 M3s? I know that BMW is offering the 2.9% on the 04's.

Those programs are gone-- BMW has officially stopped all support on 2004 models.

[SCA]

Any trunk money on 04 M3s? I know that BMW is offering the 2.9% on the 04's.

Those programs are gone-- BMW has officially stopped all support on 2004 models.

I guess our dealer doesn't know about that, they are still offering 2.9% :?

[SCA]

Just did the numbers on the deal I was offered. $605.00 below invoice on a 2005 330i ZHP. :shock:

[FC]

Just did the numbers on this deal I was offered. $605.00 below invoice on a 2005 330i ZHP. :shock:

Nice! Make sure you like it though. I love it. But if you hear some people hear talk about it, you'd think it was a C-class.

[SCA]

Just did the numbers on this deal I was offered. $605.00 below invoice on a 2005 330i ZHP. :shock:

Nice! Make sure you like it though. I love it. But if you hear some people hear talk about it, you'd think it was a C-class.

A new TL is less expensive but, it is still FWD. I wish Acura would hurry up with an AWD TL. :roll:

[killerdeck]

Just did the numbers on this deal I was offered. $605.00 below invoice on a 2005 330i ZHP. :shock:

Thats a great price, but I think you can do better considering there is $3800 to play with. I got my car for $1200 over invoice last February with no discounts. Just some food for thought.

[SCA]

Just did the numbers on this deal I was offered. $605.00 below invoice on a 2005 330i ZHP. :shock:

Thats a great price, but I think you can do better considering there is $3800 to play with. I got my car for $1200 over invoice last February with no discounts. Just some food for thought.

That includes the $3800 trunk money. Total off MSRP is $4945. Invoice is $38,605. Will sell for $38k. Still too much for my wallet though. :cry: But it is very, very tempting. :smile:

Edit: Wait a minute... I need to subtract that $3800 trunk money from dealer invoice? :dunno:

You know they are not going to give me the whole $3800.

[rumatt]

$3000 dealer profit is a good deal? :?

[FC]

No wonder resale is tanking. $3800 in trunk money?! :shock:

[killerdeck]

No wonder resale is tanking. $3800 in trunk money?! :shock:

Im starting to wonder if leasing mine was a MUCH better deal than I originally thought.

[lemming]

No wonder resale is tanking. $3800 in trunk money?! :shock:

Im starting to wonder if leasing mine was a MUCH better deal than I originally thought.

it was brilliant, given that the e90 is around the corner.

it's not like mbr will lose that much money (e36s still command money!) when the e90s come out. but leasing fixes the depreciation and if i know BMWFS, it was a nice figure for the buyer, but something the dealer, when the car is turned in, will have to eat.

[SARAFIL]

it's not like mbr will lose that much money (e36s still command money!) when the e90s come out. but leasing fixes the depreciation and if i know BMWFS, it was a nice figure for the buyer, but something the dealer, when the car is turned in, will have to eat.

The dealer won't be losing anything-- BMWFS will.

BMW dealers do not buy off lease cars for the residual value-- they pay a price that is based on current market conditions for the vehicle. So, if the E90 kills E46 resale value, the dealers are protected, and BMWFS is fucked. This isn't the appropriate place to talk about this, though.

[lemming]

it's not like mbr will lose that much money (e36s still command money!) when the e90s come out. but leasing fixes the depreciation and if i know BMWFS, it was a nice figure for the buyer, but something the dealer, when the car is turned in, will have to eat.

The dealer won't be losing anything-- BMWFS will.

BMW dealers do not buy off lease cars for the residual value-- they pay a price that is based on current market conditions for the vehicle. So, if the E90 kills E46 resale value, the dealers are protected, and BMWFS is fucked. This isn't the appropriate place to talk about this, though.

i was thinking that dealers are generally f*cked because BMWFS dictates that dealers have to take in 80-85% of cars that the lease and deal with them at lease end (either by CPO sales or selling at auction from the dealer).

and i know that my friends at the dealership aren't really pleased with that. if BMWFS takes a monetary loss, that's okay. they make it up in general. but their tactics put some pressure on the dealers to unload cars --ones that are depreciating because right next to them on the showrooms are next-gen. models.

i can see how, though, with the e39 and e38 this wasn't really so much of an issue since those cars might actually be MORE sought after than the replacements.

[SARAFIL]

i was thinking that dealers are generally f*cked because BMWFS dictates that dealers have to take in 80-85% of cars that the lease and deal with them at lease end (either by CPO sales or selling at auction from the dealer).

and i know that my friends at the dealership aren't really pleased with that. if BMWFS takes a monetary loss, that's okay. they make it up in general. but their tactics put some pressure on the dealers to unload cars --ones that are depreciating because right next to them on the showrooms are next-gen. models.

i can see how, though, with the e39 and e38 this wasn't really so much of an issue since those cars might actually be MORE sought after than the replacements.

It really isn't a big issue!

Look at it this way: BMW's CPO program is very successful. There are alot of dealers out there making tons of money by selling CPO cars. In fact, it is not unheard of to see dealers where their CPO profiits per car are 2-3 times higher than new cars.

In order to have a successful CPO program, you need cars. That is the main reason that BMW came up with the Full Circle program. Relying only on trade ins to fill the need for CPO cars will leave nearly any dealer with a greatly insufficient supply of cars. Dealers need to buy cars, and in most cases, they were going to BMWFS sponsored auctions. By the time everything was said and done, dealers were paying more because they had to pay auction fees, shipping fees, etc. It is much easier for everyone for the dealers to just buy cars from the lease return pool that they have, rather than to send them all back, and then go to those same auctions that the cars are going to and buying them.

Does it sometimes suck that we have to buy most of these cars? Yep. If I'm overflowing with a certain model, odds are that I don't want any more. And, sometimes the cars that I "have" to buy aren't very nice cars. (But then again, many of the cars that we buy at auctions and think are "nice" turn out to be pieces of shit when we get to look them over).

But, there are some important things to think about that your friends at the dealers don't likely tell you.

A. The prices dealers are paying for lease returns is the lower of either the residual or the current "market" value, or what they'd pay for similar cars at the auctions

B. Participation in BMW's Full Circle program (the program you're talking about where they require you to buy so many of the cars coming back) is optional! If the dealer hates it, they can drop the program!!

C. Dealers are allowed to chose what amount of cars they can send back-- 8%, 10%, 12%, etc. You might say in response to that "what reason does a dealer have to choose 8% over 12%?", and to that, I say "no comment." ;)

Sounds like these friends that you have at the dealers like to complain alot! ;)

[GimpyMcFarlan]

Do you really believe red is a cop magnet?

Nope. Had 3 tickets in my 2000 323i sedan. 0 in my 2003 330ci. Haven't changed my driving style all that much.

[SCA]

Update, at the moment I'm out. I have come to my senses. I just can not swing a new car these days. :cry:

[rumatt]

You can buy my 03 330i.

Although I hear light blue, manual, non-sunroof cars are a hot item these days.

[SCA]

You can buy my 03 330i.

I hear light blue, manual, non-sunroof cars are a hot item these days.

:lol:

Honestly, as disenchanted as I was with my former 330, I do not need another one. ;)

[lemming]

i was thinking that dealers are generally f*cked because BMWFS dictates that dealers have to take in 80-85% of cars that the lease and deal with them at lease end (either by CPO sales or selling at auction from the dealer).

and i know that my friends at the dealership aren't really pleased with that. if BMWFS takes a monetary loss, that's okay. they make it up in general. but their tactics put some pressure on the dealers to unload cars --ones that are depreciating because right next to them on the showrooms are next-gen. models.

i can see how, though, with the e39 and e38 this wasn't really so much of an issue since those cars might actually be MORE sought after than the replacements.

It really isn't a big issue!

Look at it this way: BMW's CPO program is very successful. There are alot of dealers out there making tons of money by selling CPO cars. In fact, it is not unheard of to see dealers where their CPO profiits per car are 2-3 times higher than new cars.

In order to have a successful CPO program, you need cars. That is the main reason that BMW came up with the Full Circle program. Relying only on trade ins to fill the need for CPO cars will leave nearly any dealer with a greatly insufficient supply of cars. Dealers need to buy cars, and in most cases, they were going to BMWFS sponsored auctions. By the time everything was said and done, dealers were paying more because they had to pay auction fees, shipping fees, etc. It is much easier for everyone for the dealers to just buy cars from the lease return pool that they have, rather than to send them all back, and then go to those same auctions that the cars are going to and buying them.

Does it sometimes suck that we have to buy most of these cars? Yep. If I'm overflowing with a certain model, odds are that I don't want any more. And, sometimes the cars that I "have" to buy aren't very nice cars. (But then again, many of the cars that we buy at auctions and think are "nice" turn out to be pieces of shit when we get to look them over).

But, there are some important things to think about that your friends at the dealers don't likely tell you.

A. The prices dealers are paying for lease returns is the lower of either the residual or the current "market" value, or what they'd pay for similar cars at the auctions

B. Participation in BMW's Full Circle program (the program you're talking about where they require you to buy so many of the cars coming back) is optional! If the dealer hates it, they can drop the program!!

C. Dealers are allowed to chose what amount of cars they can send back-- 8%, 10%, 12%, etc. You might say in response to that "what reason does a dealer have to choose 8% over 12%?", and to that, I say "no comment." ;)

Sounds like these friends that you have at the dealers like to complain alot! ;)

they love cars. they don't exactly love their jobs. pretty normal, actually for anyone in the working world. i just get little snippets every now and then.

but i would guess that if you have to "sell" bmw's in boston (as the cars tend to sell themselves), one might rethink their career choice.

i'd not touch an e46 with someone else's money right now; not with the e90 right around the corner --it's as good looking (relatively speaking as i was never an e46 fan) and dynamically superior. it would just make you or anyone else then lose money trying to sell or trade-in the almost new e46 to try to get the e90.