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ff
02-02-2005, 12:24 AM
I wanted to put together a review of my S2000, now that I've got a few miles on it. A little over 4000, to be exact. For the longest time, though, I've either been too tired or too lazy to put together enough sentences to
make it worth reading. So I'm going to pretend to be alert enough for the next 1/2 hour, and just get through this. Broken down into logical sections:

Engine: Displacement is up to 2.2 liters (from 2.0) beginning 2004. HP remains unchanged at 240, but comes at a lower RPM. Torque is up 161 ft/lbs, and also comes at a lower RPM. The power curve is fattened as a result. I've never driven the 2.0, so I can't really comment on the difference in feel. But from what I've read in road test reviews, the acceleration from a standstill is nearly the same (0-60 in about 5.4 sec's, 1/4 mile in 14 sec's). Where it shows the extra power is in 30-50 and 50-70 acceleration times. Improving about 1 and 1.5 seconds over the previous engine respectively.
I was pretty cautious not to over-rev the engine, or push it hard during break-in. That made for some pretty lazy acceleration. For the past 2000 miles, though, I've been putting the engine through some pretty good paces, and it never fails to amaze me with its willingness to build power with such ferocity. This motor just wants to rev and rev. It constantly begs you to drive it hard. And it likes it. It loves it. It thanks you for letting it stretch its legs. And I'm not the type to turn down such an invitation. I gladly accept.
This little 4 cylinder never feels taxed, or buzzy like the MINI (et.al.). It's loud and raw, but somehow still so refined and smooth. Revs build quickly, and as the engine passes the "VTEC" cutover, the engines takes on a whole new life. With a loud metallic roar, the car rockets forward with authority. It's something you have to feel to believe. It's like no other driving experience I've had, and it keeps me coming back for more.
Oh, and how can I forget the throttle. Good old fashioned cable throttle. :thumbup: Response is immediate. More than immediate. It's like the engine is one step ahead of you, and has already been preparing for what your right foot has in store for it. Throttle blipping works like butta'. Matching revs on downshifts is super easy. Something you can rarely accomplish in the E46, whose throttle delay is seemingly measured in seconds.

Transmission: What can I say, except that I can't imagine a gearbox feeling better than this. Shifts are so minuscule, so smooth, so unbelievably precise. Every shift rewards you, and makes you pray that we never see the end of the manual transmission. It's like your hand is connected directly to the gear selector fork, snicking your way from 1st to 6th and back. What a masterpiece.
Gears are very short, which keeps you constantly involved in the driving experience (perfect!). Though, I can still find myself cruising around town at 40 MPH in 6th gear, and have no shortage of power to quickly gain speed as needed. A very flexible engine, to say the least.
70 MPH in 6th gear results in something like 4500 RPM on the tach. The benefit is that you're always in the powerband. Speed changes on the highway are immediate. I can't believe I haven't gotten a ticket in this thing yet.
I am a bit disappointed that the redline was dropped from 8900 to 8000, because you hit the rev limiter shortly after 8000, and you can tell that the engine still has a long way to go. It's by no means done producing power at that point. It could easily hit 9000, and remain useful. The 0-60 hurts as a result. I'll have to try it again, but last night I hit the rev limiter in 2nd gear, looked down, and saw that I was just passing 57 MPH. A 9000 RPM redline (or even 8500) would have been enough to get to 60 before requiring a shift into 3rd gear. Perhaps that would shave 1/2 second off the 0-60? I'll have to try it again to see if I can hit the magic 60 MPH in 2nd gear.

Interior: Spartan, exactly like I prefer it. There's little more than you need in this cockpit. A small array of controls for HVAC and radio, all close enough that you don't need to take your hand off the steering wheel to change temp, radio station, etc. Seats feel great, and hold you snugly in place left/right/up/down. The only way you could improve them, is to offer them in cloth (like Alcantara), which I would gladly option for.
Yeah, the dash is a bit outdated-looking. I've heard it referred to as "Atari"-like, and that's a good analogy. But that doesn't bother me. I like it simple, plain, and obvious. Give me only what I need, put it where it should be, and I won't ask for anything more.

Suspension: It's certainly stiff, but not uncomfortable. They firmed up the front suspension for 2004, and softened the rear. This in an attempt to control the rash of people putting their S2000's in the ditch following a small dose of snap oversteer. Personally, I'd rather have the stiffer rear suspension, and just take my chances. The back end oftentimes feels like it is going to pop up and come unglued. It's that soft. Well, more specifically, it's very stiff on compression, but too soft when the inner rear wheel unloads, giving you the sensation that the rear end wants to lift off. I've taken care of a lot of this by playing with tire pressures, and have found a setting that minimizes it to a great extent.
Lastly, the steering on this car is so razor-sharp. It makes the E46 feel like a big bloated pig. The S2000, in comparison, feel ultra-light and nimble. Goes exactly where you point it.

In summary, this is a no-nonsense package that has one purpose in mind. To drive with sporting intentions. This is not a good commuter car, and you definitely wouldn't want to take it on a long trip. The drone of the engine, along with the lack of sound insulation would drive you batty. Although, I'm a glutton for punishment, so that wouldn't stop me from doing it anyway.

What can I say, I love this car. It's the kind of car that a person like me searches for all their life. Looking for that single vehicle that fulfills all your wants, needs, desires. Things change, but at this point in time, I want to hang onto it indefinitely.

(I really need to get this car on the track)

Nick M3
02-02-2005, 12:29 AM
Put Konis in.

What you describes sounds like a shock with lots of compression and no rebound damping.

rumatt
02-02-2005, 12:44 AM
Great to hear you're enjoying it.

I currently in a rare state of being at peace with my car situation :paranoid: but I do still sometimes think an S2K would make sense for me. I don't really love convertibles though, so helps kill it.

ff
02-02-2005, 09:41 AM
Put Konis in.

What you describes sounds like a shock with lots of compression and no rebound damping.

I've been thinking about it, actually. Just found out that my employer is giving me a discretionary bonus for my hard work last year. As long as a new set of shocks + install isn't too expensive, I may just do that.

I currently in a rare state of being at peace with my car situation but I do still sometimes think an S2K would make sense for me. I don't really love convertibles though, so helps kill it.

I've never cared for convert's either. Now that I have one, the wife and I enjoy the open top motoring quite often. Helps that we live in FL, I guess :-)

Plaz
02-02-2005, 11:22 AM
Just found out that my employer is giving me a discretionary bonus for my hard work last year.

Time to revisit that bonus thread! :lol:

clyde
02-02-2005, 12:58 PM
I was thinking that too, but didn't want to reopen that can of worms.

ff
02-02-2005, 01:14 PM
Just found out that my employer is giving me a discretionary bonus for my hard work last year.

Time to revisit that bonus thread! :lol:

I know. Caught me totally off guard. Well, I have a new boss as of about 5 months ago, and he's totally going to bat for us. As well as fixing everything that's wrong with the way this department is run (Plaz, you should've seen our process of testing/QA and rolling things to production before this guy came onboard...). He also hinted that he's pushing for good raises in March that will bring us up to the pay rates we should be at.

He and I had a nice phone conversation last week, and things are definitely looking up.

clyde
02-02-2005, 01:21 PM
SOunds good :thumbup:

lemming
02-02-2005, 02:21 PM
it's magical, isn't it?

when you THINK that you've fuond the right car. when you and your car, in many aspects, just mesh.

i'm happy for you, dude. you're also in the right state for that car. am not sure that MA s2000 drivers are as thrilled as you are because even with snows, i doubt the thing has good clearance.

i agree about the sound. i got a chance to rip through the gears of the first generation s2000 on a local airport runway and that shriek at the vtec transition and beyond is unreal.

Plaz
02-02-2005, 02:52 PM
Plaz, you should've seen our process of testing/QA and rolling things to production before this guy came onboard...

Oh, don't even get me started. About the only testing our apps see these days is the "scream test." :rolleyes:

Plaz
02-02-2005, 02:53 PM
What can I say, I love this car. It's the kind of car that a person like me searches for all their life. Looking for that single vehicle that fulfills all your wants, needs, desires.

Get a room, you two. :lol:

ff
02-02-2005, 03:02 PM
What can I say, I love this car. It's the kind of car that a person like me searches for all their life. Looking for that single vehicle that fulfills all your wants, needs, desires.

Get a room, you two. :lol:

You know, they switched to oval-shaped exhaust tips for the 2004 model... :lol:

Plaz
02-02-2005, 03:06 PM
What can I say, I love this car. It's the kind of car that a person like me searches for all their life. Looking for that single vehicle that fulfills all your wants, needs, desires.

Get a room, you two. :lol:

You know, they switched to oval-shaped exhaust tips for the 2004 model... :lol:

:lol: :lol: :lol:

http://www.handbag.com/graphics/library3/vaseline.jpg

clyde
02-02-2005, 03:43 PM
Plaz, you should've seen our process of testing/QA and rolling things to production before this guy came onboard...

Oh, don't even get me started. About the only testing our apps see these days is the "scream test." :rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but what's this "testing" thing that you guys are talking about? What does it do? What is it's function? You make it sound like it is useful in some manner...is it?

ff
02-02-2005, 04:42 PM
I'm sorry, but what's this "testing" thing that you guys are talking about? What does it do? What is it's function? You make it sound like it is useful in some manner...is it?

I'm convinced that the only function "testing" provides is to hurt the company's bottom line (no...anything but that...). It's pure overhead. It's evil. Let us never speak of this testing thing again.

Plaz
02-02-2005, 04:48 PM
I'm sorry, but what's this "testing" thing that you guys are talking about? What does it do? What is it's function? You make it sound like it is useful in some manner...is it?

I'm convinced that the only function "testing" provides is to hurt the company's bottom line (no...anything but that...). It's pure overhead. It's evil. Let us never speak of this testing thing again.

Until that bug in an untested program causes a multi-million-dollar loss. Then we'll catch the shit for not testing, and get fired. Hey, someone has to.

ff
02-02-2005, 05:01 PM
Until that bug in an untested program causes a multi-million-dollar loss. Then we'll catch the shit for not testing, and get fired. Hey, someone has to.

That's why you hire an H-1B that can't speak any english. You can just blame the bug on him. ;)

"yeah, didn't Elifveumut or Rajan work on that chunk of code? Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Elifveumut."

clyde
02-02-2005, 05:08 PM
geez..."bottom line" "multi-million-dollar loss" "get fired"

Let me guess...you guys do NOT work for the government, do you? :?

Plaz
02-02-2005, 05:24 PM
"Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was Elifveumut."

:lol:

"Elifveumut?!?" :lol:

Plaz
02-02-2005, 05:29 PM
geez..."bottom line" "multi-million-dollar loss" "get fired"

Let me guess...you guys do NOT work for the government, do you? :?

True enough. At least this picture hangs nowhere in my company's offices, though.

http://www.nndb.com/people/360/000022294/george-w-bush.jpg

TD
02-02-2005, 05:47 PM
I do not work for the gov't, but we have that picture here. :yikes:

Plaz
02-02-2005, 05:59 PM
I do not work for the gov't, but we have that picture here. :yikes:

:? WTF?

Doug
02-02-2005, 06:19 PM
Good write up, glad you enjoy the car. I've always felt the S2000 is the car that the Miata and Z3 wanted to be but never quite match up to.

clyde
02-02-2005, 06:34 PM
geez..."bottom line" "multi-million-dollar loss" "get fired"

Let me guess...you guys do NOT work for the government, do you? :?

True enough. At least this picture hangs nowhere in my company's offices, though.

http://www.nndb.com/people/360/000022294/george-w-bush.jpg

Oh, I'm sure that there's a dartboard or two in there...

I couldn't count how many photos of him are in our offices. We still turn up framed photos of Carter, Nixon and Kennedy now and again.

clyde
02-02-2005, 06:40 PM
Good write up, glad you enjoy the car. I've always felt the S2000 is the car that the Miata and Z3 wanted to be but never quite match up to.

I see it a little differently. They're all variations on a theme to be sure, but they each fill their own niches. The Miata has always been about feel, not about being hyper and hypersensitive, and it succeeds there. The Z3 was always about providing a more Germanic answer to the same question and it did reasonably well at that. The first gen S2K was about a manic engine and razor sharp (relatively speaking) reflexes and did great at those. This second gen is moving the way most models go as they age...more refined and less high strung...and still doing well, but who knows for how much longer? :dunno:

ff
02-02-2005, 06:53 PM
...more refined and less high strung...and still doing well, but who knows for how much longer? :dunno:

The American people have spoken. Again. :( Next thing you know, Honda will offer it with an auto transmission and traction control.

Doug
02-02-2005, 07:24 PM
Americans love a little 2 seat open car, always will. It will never be a mainstream car (one in every garage) but it will always have a market if it's available.

The success of the Miata wasn't that it's such a great car but rather that it came out on the market with no competition. The Z3 followed suit hoping to cash in on the demand. The S2000 one upped both of them.

undefined
02-02-2005, 07:34 PM
at what RPM does the VTEC changeover occur?

ff
02-02-2005, 08:20 PM
at what RPM does the VTEC changeover occur?

I believe the changeover is at 6000 RPM. I'll go for a drive tonight and find out :D

undefined
02-02-2005, 09:09 PM
very similar to the elise then

cam changeover at 6200, red limiter at 8500 or so

ff
02-02-2005, 10:37 PM
very similar to the elise then

cam changeover at 6200, red limiter at 8500 or so

Just went for a drive. According to the tach, it appeared to be around 6200 RPM. At least's when I started to feel the effects of the second set of lobes. I tried it 20 or 30 times, just to be sure. :smile:

lemming
02-02-2005, 10:50 PM
Good write up, glad you enjoy the car. I've always felt the S2000 is the car that the Miata and Z3 wanted to be but never quite match up to.

I see it a little differently. They're all variations on a theme to be sure, but they each fill their own niches. The Miata has always been about feel, not about being hyper and hypersensitive, and it succeeds there. The Z3 was always about providing a more Germanic answer to the same question and it did reasonably well at that. The first gen S2K was about a manic engine and razor sharp (relatively speaking) reflexes and did great at those. This second gen is moving the way most models go as they age...more refined and less high strung...and still doing well, but who knows for how much longer? :dunno:

i dunno, clyde.

i've owned both the e36/8 and the miata (1991 model) and i don't see them at all in the same niche. the only niche is "roadster". the z3 and its hardtop cousin, the M coupe use abominable rear suspension setups and are rather heavy (the M coupe is 3131 pounds) and use torque to try to answer the question. build quality was never measured in millimeter-spacing --more like centimeter spacing for gaps.

the miata is exactly what you have described it as before: light, cheap and reliable. because of that, it gets a plebian engine. it's easy to tune lightweights for handling --if you, as a car company, cannot do that, you should go the way of peugeot in america --> exit stage right.

the S2000 (and i haven't driven the 2.2 litre version but for more than a rotary (i love new england) (a 4-5 minute drive) is tactile and has a shifter on par or better than the miata (sorry, but while the BMW shifter is precise, it is not snickety at all), handling to match/exceed the miata, faster than the z3 on average and has the advantage of both power to weight ratio plus power @ rpms. the z3 was barely comparable to that horribly executed 1st generation SLK. in fact, it's unfortunate the z4 is so ugly because it handles so well because otherwise, a M-technik suspension puts the Z, finally, in the same ballpark as the S2000.

the only comparable car for the s2000 is the elise, IMHO.

putting the "hairdressermobile" z3 (CAR and Evo adjectives) or the miata in the same niche as the s2000 is really a huge disservice.

clyde
02-02-2005, 11:57 PM
Good write up, glad you enjoy the car. I've always felt the S2000 is the car that the Miata and Z3 wanted to be but never quite match up to.

I see it a little differently. They're all variations on a theme to be sure, but they each fill their own niches. The Miata has always been about feel, not about being hyper and hypersensitive, and it succeeds there. The Z3 was always about providing a more Germanic answer to the same question and it did reasonably well at that. The first gen S2K was about a manic engine and razor sharp (relatively speaking) reflexes and did great at those. This second gen is moving the way most models go as they age...more refined and less high strung...and still doing well, but who knows for how much longer? :dunno:

i dunno, clyde.

i've owned both the e36/8 and the miata (1991 model) and i don't see them at all in the same niche. the only niche is "roadster".

That's what I said.

Plaz
02-03-2005, 12:15 AM
Reviews like this, and my experience with a CRX years ago, do make me wish Honda offered more in RWD than a roadster.

lemming
02-03-2005, 12:17 AM
Good write up, glad you enjoy the car. I've always felt the S2000 is the car that the Miata and Z3 wanted to be but never quite match up to.

I see it a little differently. They're all variations on a theme to be sure, but they each fill their own niches. The Miata has always been about feel, not about being hyper and hypersensitive, and it succeeds there. The Z3 was always about providing a more Germanic answer to the same question and it did reasonably well at that. The first gen S2K was about a manic engine and razor sharp (relatively speaking) reflexes and did great at those. This second gen is moving the way most models go as they age...more refined and less high strung...and still doing well, but who knows for how much longer? :dunno:

i dunno, clyde.

i've owned both the e36/8 and the miata (1991 model) and i don't see them at all in the same niche. the only niche is "roadster".

That's what I said.

my bad.

i read that too quickly.

ff
02-03-2005, 10:43 AM
Reviews like this, and my experience with a CRX years ago, do make me wish Honda offered more in RWD than a roadster.

No doubt. It's really a shame that Honda can't embrace RWD a little more than they do. You'd think with the current wave of 3-series competitors on the market, they'd step up to the plate. I see no hard evidence of that.

I have heard rumors that this will be the final (and only) run of the S2000. And that there may be a S2000-like coupe on the horizon. Somehow I doubt it, though.

I'm just glad that I'm able to own a car like the S2000 before they're gone.

Doug
02-03-2005, 11:02 AM
putting the "hairdressermobile" z3 (CAR and Evo adjectives) or the miata in the same niche as the s2000 is really a huge disservice.

I have to disagree. Due to the small market for these cars "Roadster" is about as small a group as you want to put them in. I don't think breaking down into minimal subsets of the already small set does anything, especially in the American market. Your comments just prove my comment that Honda one upped both Mazda and BMW in the inexpensive roadster market. Myself I wouldn't put the Elise in the same market as the Honda, BMW, or Mazda. Look at the average buyer of those cars, "Joe Average" American compared with the average buyer of the Elise. It's a different market segment hence my classification outside the other 3.