I (we) need help on choosing a wagon/suv... Really.

[FC]

My 190E is officially no longer being driven and I am selling it.

We need a 2nd car. Preferably a roomy car, like a wagon or SUV. There are a few options:

1) Buy something cheap (under 8K or so) and hold on to it until we have kids and then upgrade (~2 years). We dont care that it is a boring as all hell/appliance type vehicle since we'll only use it for 2 years. Think old Taurus.

2) Buy something about as cheap (maybe 10K) but older that is actually a nicer vehicle but understanably will cost more to maintain, like a Volvo, BMW, Benz wagon, etc with the intent of keeping it for 3-4 years. Therefore it must be roomy enough to comfortably accomodate all the stuff a baby (just one)requires.

3) Buy something new(er) that would not cost that much per month.

It's all about the money, of course. It would be nice to just go back to the previous plan of leasing or buying a new Impreza. But that car would be too small for when we have kids and would have to be traded in. The cost of running that car for two years (+ deprec) is bound to be more than the depreciation + repairs of option 1.

SUV's hold little appeal over a Taurus given that good ones in decent shape are not that cheap and consume a lot of gas. They also don't handle that well, and we'd be making all our trips to Montreal in this vehicle.

I think Option 2 is the best way to go, but I'm not convinced.

I'm having trouble finding a better deal than the $7500 E320, even if I end up spending another $2500 in a head gasket/engine wiring harness. Some E320's are going for 12K and the others going for 8K have 150K miles or more. Used BMW's and Volvos seem to be as much or more money and not as "good."

I suppose we could try to get a Camry wagon and ditch it after 2 years, but they have well over 100K miles and japanese cars don't hold up as well body-wise as German cars.

I'm just not sure. Thoughts? ... Please?

I hope I am missing an obvious solution, or something.

[Rob]

I still can't believe you are even considering a taurus. I didn't think people that liked cars drove things like the taurus.

Something else to think about - the wife has a station wagon that we got b/c we have dogs and we were planning on kids. Well, the first kid is on the way and I realized the other day on a trip up to our parents that the wagon isn't big enough. Really. With two shepards, the bikes on top, but the front wheels in the car and enough luggage for a one night stay (i.e., almost none), there really wasn't room for a baby seat. I realize you don't have dogs, but . . . I would still shy away from a smaller wagon. (I also realize I have several options for those front wheels, but that's beside the point). We spent most of out time at the last auto show climbing through mini vans.

If it were me, I would lean toward the Benz. But I would also plan on spending the money it takes to replace the wiring harness you guys have been talking about and do the head gasket. I would probably just have them done as preventative maintenance so I wouldn't have to worry about the car breaking. And it will continue to have more repair costs than a newer car would. But at least it will be worth while to drive.

I also can't believe you can't find a boxy V70 for less money then a Benz. A volvo wagon has tons of room in it and you would even get fwd for your winter issues. But I haven't looked for one, so what do I know.

[undefined]

remind us why you need a roomy wagon/SUV again? (Since your plan is to only keep it for a few years)

[FC]

I still can't believe you are even considering a taurus. I didn't think people that liked cars drove things like the taurus.

Something else to think about - the wife has a station wagon that we got b/c we have dogs and we were planning on kids. Well, the first kid is on the way and I realized the other day on a trip up to our parents that the wagon isn't big enough. Really. With two shepards, the bikes on top, but the front wheels in the car and enough luggage for a one night stay (i.e., almost none), there really wasn't room for a baby seat. I realize you don't have dogs, but . . . I would still shy away from a smaller wagon. (I also realize I have several options for those front wheels, but that's beside the point). We spent most of out time at the last auto show climbing through mini vans.

If it were me, I would lean toward the Benz. But I would also plan on spending the money it takes to replace the wiring harness you guys have been talking about and do the head gasket. I would probably just have them done as preventative maintenance so I wouldn't have to worry about the car breaking. And it will continue to have more repair costs than a newer car would. But at least it will be worth while to drive.

I also can't believe you can't find a boxy V70 for less money then a Benz. A volvo wagon has tons of room in it and you would even get fwd for your winter issues. But I haven't looked for one, so what do I know.

I refuse to buy a Volvo wagon older than a '98 and they seem to be as much as the Benz. I'll look harder. I just know that I can expect the E320 to be better than my 190E, whereas I felt relief in driving my 190E after drivign my parents' brand new XC70.

I just feel that if I go the "older but better" route, for a difference fo ~1-2K, I might as well go with a chassis I like (nevermid much better performance and RWD) and leverage my maintenance/repair experience from owning 190's for 8 years (similar vehicles to the E320).

[FC]

remind us why you need a roomy wagon/SUV again? (Since your plan is to only keep it for a few years)

The 330i is about as impractical a sedan as you can get (it was purchased with the intent of having a more roomy/versatile car). Often times we buy stuff that could easily fit on a wagon with folded seats, but we don't have such a vehicle. Granted, this temporary vehicle doesn't have to be a large wagon, but few sedans can compare to even a small wagon with folded seats. You ought to know.

Once kids come, well, you know. So if the car is to stick around until after we have one kid, then I rather it be a roomy wagon.

[Roadstergal]

Mazda3 or Protege wagon.

[undefined]

Mazda3 or Protege wagon.

that's what I was going to suggest :mad:

[FC]

Mazda3 or Protege wagon.

Definitely thought of leasing a Mazda 3 5-door for a couple of years. But what do you think the realistic cost of owning/operating one would be for 24 months? :?:

The lease must be $300 or so at least right?

EDIT: Their online calculator gave me $367 a month for 24 months @ 15K miles per year on 18000 with no down. Not all that bad but still 9K over two years.

[Roadstergal]

Mazda3 or Protege wagon.

that's what I was going to suggest :mad:

D'oh!

But the own/operate costs should be pretty low. They're pretty fuel-efficient and are reliable, if you get one that's been reasonably well taken care of (caveat for all used cars). And the consumables (tires, etc) will be cheaper than anything else that you mentioned (larger wagons, SUVs).

Don't ask me about leases. They give me headaches.

[undefined]

Mazda3 or Protege wagon.

Definitely thought of leasing a Mazda 3 5-door for a couple of years. But what do you think the realistic cost of owning/operating one would be for 24 months? :?:

The lease must be $300 or so at least right?

EDIT: Their online calculator gave me $367 a month for 24 months @ 15K miles per year on 18000 with no down. Not all that bad but still 9K over two years.

I'd buy a used one

[FC]

Mazda3 or Protege wagon.

Definitely thought of leasing a Mazda 3 5-door for a couple of years. But what do you think the realistic cost of owning/operating one would be for 24 months? :?:

The lease must be $300 or so at least right?

EDIT: Their online calculator gave me $367 a month for 24 months @ 15K miles per year on 18000 with no down. Not all that bad but still 9K over two years.

I'd buy a used one

Protege5's go for 10K for 2002's with ~40K miles and 12K for 2002's with 60K miles. Both out of warranty.

Those cars would get me what after 2 years and 25Kmiles, 4K and 5K respectively? I could get almost that from the E320 wagon after 4 years and 50k miles, and it cost me 10K (with repairs) and I drove a much better, roomier, safer, etc car for twice as long.

I'm just not sure it's a slam dunk, but I'm not throwing anything out.

[SteveM]

Why not a 2003+ Toyota 4Runner? They are plenty roomy, zoomy and RWD (or 4WD if you want). A 2003 goes for about $20K.

[lip277]

Where's "MBR's World" when we really need it.....

:D

[SteveM]

Where's "MBR's World" when we really need it.....

:D

Haven't you heard? It's HIS world, we're just living in it! :smile:

[FC]

Where's "MBR's World" when we really need it.....

:D

Haven't you heard? It's HIS world, we're just living in it! :smile:

I should be exempt since this is a legitimate thread. :mad:

[SARAFIL]

Where's "MBR's World" when we really need it.....

:D

Haven't you heard? It's HIS world, we're just living in it! :smile:

I should be exempt since this is a legitimate thread. :mad:

The local Mazda dealer is advertising a $169/mo 24 month lease on the Mazda 3 with $1999 down plus first payment, security deposit and acquisition Figure that $0 down (fees only) would put you at around $230/mo.

For 36 months, they have a $199/mo lease on a Mazda 6 with $999 down plus fees, or about $230/mo with $0 down plus fees.

Or, for a real bargain, they have a Focus SE sedan, 24 month lease @ $139/mo with $1999 down, so figure $200 a month with fees only at signing.

Of course, this is all based on "cheap" being the major factor.

[undefined]

The local Mazda dealer is advertising a $169/mo 24 month lease on the Mazda 3 with $1999 down plus first payment, security deposit and acquisition Figure that $0 down (fees only) would put you at around $230/mo.

For 36 months, they have a $199/mo lease on a Mazda 6 with $999 down plus fees, or about $230/mo with $0 down plus fees.
:shock:

there's your car mbr

[Roadstergal]

The local Mazda dealer is advertising a $169/mo 24 month lease on the Mazda 3 with $1999 down plus first payment, security deposit and acquisition Figure that $0 down (fees only) would put you at around $230/mo.

For 36 months, they have a $199/mo lease on a Mazda 6 with $999 down plus fees, or about $230/mo with $0 down plus fees.

What are the limitations? Pricier for a wagon with stick, e.g.?

[SARAFIL]

The local Mazda dealer is advertising a $169/mo 24 month lease on the Mazda 3 with $1999 down plus first payment, security deposit and acquisition Figure that $0 down (fees only) would put you at around $230/mo.

For 36 months, they have a $199/mo lease on a Mazda 6 with $999 down plus fees, or about $230/mo with $0 down plus fees.

What are the limitations? Pricier for a wagon with stick, e.g.?

I don't know what the specs are on the ad cars. As for mileage, probably not too much-- 10k or 12k. On a car like this, it really can't add much to the payment to get a bit more mileage if he needs it.

Point is that these are cheap cars and not necessarily $300/mo+ like he initially guessed.

[lemming]

The local Mazda dealer is advertising a $169/mo 24 month lease on the Mazda 3 with $1999 down plus first payment, security deposit and acquisition Figure that $0 down (fees only) would put you at around $230/mo.

For 36 months, they have a $199/mo lease on a Mazda 6 with $999 down plus fees, or about $230/mo with $0 down plus fees.

What are the limitations? Pricier for a wagon with stick, e.g.?

I don't know what the specs are on the ad cars. As for mileage, probably not too much-- 10k or 12k. On a car like this, it really can't add much to the payment to get a bit more mileage if he needs it.

Point is that these are cheap cars and not necessarily $300/mo+ like he initially guessed.

incredibly sleepy months to buy a car. deals are in abundance.

my buddy who used to sell subies now sells nissans. if you're leaning toward any nismo product, gimme a holler.

i think you need to just commit to the vehicle (type, drivetrain) and you'll find a great deal, especially right now. nothing is moving on dealer lots.

[FC]

Where's "MBR's World" when we really need it.....

:D

Haven't you heard? It's HIS world, we're just living in it! :smile:

I should be exempt since this is a legitimate thread. :mad:

The local Mazda dealer is advertising a $169/mo 24 month lease on the Mazda 3 with $1999 down plus first payment, security deposit and acquisition Figure that $0 down (fees only) would put you at around $230/mo.

For 36 months, they have a $199/mo lease on a Mazda 6 with $999 down plus fees, or about $230/mo with $0 down plus fees.

Or, for a real bargain, they have a Focus SE sedan, 24 month lease @ $139/mo with $1999 down, so figure $200 a month with fees only at signing.

Of course, this is all based on "cheap" being the major factor.

That sounds good, but I'm sure it is based on a stripped Mazada 3 sedan retailing for about 3K less than the wagon. Even if it was $250 a month with 2K down, that is 7K over 2 years. Better, but again, if one assumes the E320 works out to not have major maintenance issues, nothing will beat it.

I'll go test drive a Mazda 3 this weekend regardless (weather permitting).

[JetBlack330i]

Why did you include SUV in your title? If a Mazda 3 will do why you even consider a SUV?

[FC]

Why did you include SUV in your title? If a Mazda 3 will do why you even consider a SUV?

Because I'm not a wagon Nazi and if someone could come up with an inexpensive solution then great. I don't want one, but I don't want a Taurus either. But if it will do the job cheaply, then I'd consider it.

It also has to do with the fact that as with the mercedes wagon, the vehicle I buy may be one I keep more than 2 years and have kids, and SUV's are roomy.

But basically, I wanted to keep all my options open. I didn't want people to reply "why are you not considering SUV's?"

[JST]

That sounds good, but I'm sure it is based on a stripped Mazada 3 sedan retailing for about 3K less than the wagon. Even if it was $250 a month with 2K down, that is 7K over 2 years. Better, but again, if one assumes the E320 works out to not have major maintenance issues, nothing will beat it.



Very true--it's impossible to beat a car that is at or near the bottom of its depreciation curve.

Of course, "if one assume the E320 works out to not have major maintenance issues" is a pretty big assumption. It's entirely possible that a car that old will turn out to have substantial maintenance issues that result in in becoming an albatross that you can't get rid of. And is the E320 at the bottom of its depreciation curve? I'm not sure--what will a car like that be worth in 2 years? You may end up sinking 3 or 4K into keeping it on the road over the next two years (doing various things), and then end up with a car worth half of what you paid for it. Suddenly, you've just spent as much as you would have spent on a new Mazda.

All that said, in your situation I'd go with the E320.

[FC]

That sounds good, but I'm sure it is based on a stripped Mazada 3 sedan retailing for about 3K less than the wagon. Even if it was $250 a month with 2K down, that is 7K over 2 years. Better, but again, if one assumes the E320 works out to not have major maintenance issues, nothing will beat it.



Very true--it's impossible to beat a car that is at or near the bottom of its depreciation curve.

Of course, "if one assume the E320 works out to not have major maintenance issues" is a pretty big assumption. It's entirely possible that a car that old will turn out to have substantial maintenance issues that result in in becoming an albatross that you can't get rid of. And is the E320 at the bottom of its depreciation curve? I'm not sure--what will a car like that be worth in 2 years? You may end up sinking 3 or 4K into keeping it on the road over the next two years (doing various things), and then end up with a car worth half of what you paid for it. Suddenly, you've just spent as much as you would have spent on a new Mazda.

All that said, in your situation I'd go with the E320.

Well, those 80's mercedes are pretty darn bullet-proof. I bought my 190E without any records (except for oil changes) with 108K and 10 years and it was basically flawless for 50K miles. I probably spent 2k (paid my mechanic back then) in all that time (muffler, brakes, shocks).

Aside from the gasket and harness, it is reasonable to expect this car to give me 50K miles of relatively trouble-free driving.

There are people selling the same wagon but with 150-160K miles for 8-10K. There is one with 72K going for $16K.

Any other car and I would probably go the Mazda3 route without much thought. But I know these cars, know how to maintain/service them, and more importantly I like them. There is something to be said for a full-size wagon that can do 130+mph without much drama and is built like a tank.

[zcasavant]

That sounds good, but I'm sure it is based on a stripped Mazada 3 sedan retailing for about 3K less than the wagon. Even if it was $250 a month with 2K down, that is 7K over 2 years. Better, but again, if one assumes the E320 works out to not have major maintenance issues, nothing will beat it.



Very true--it's impossible to beat a car that is at or near the bottom of its depreciation curve.

Of course, "if one assume the E320 works out to not have major maintenance issues" is a pretty big assumption. It's entirely possible that a car that old will turn out to have substantial maintenance issues that result in in becoming an albatross that you can't get rid of. And is the E320 at the bottom of its depreciation curve? I'm not sure--what will a car like that be worth in 2 years? You may end up sinking 3 or 4K into keeping it on the road over the next two years (doing various things), and then end up with a car worth half of what you paid for it. Suddenly, you've just spent as much as you would have spent on a new Mazda.

All that said, in your situation I'd go with the E320.

I agree. You also need to figure out which you like more. A Mazda may, initially, appear to be a more practical buy but if you end up hating it after six months, it becomes an annoyance.

If the E320 checks out and you feel comfortable with the MB's "known issues" I think it makes the most sense for you.

[FC]

I agree. You also need to figure out which you like more. A Mazda may, initially, appear to be a more practical buy but if you end up hating it after six months, it becomes an annoyance.

If the E320 checks out and you feel comfortable with the MB's "known issues" I think it makes the most sense for you.

That's the thing. I like the mercedes-ness of those cars, particularly since we're stuck with the slushy requirement. The Benz gets the nod in a tie-braker. And when all is said and done, I think I rather have a smooth-as-silk 217hp/229lb-ft engine with tons of room in the back.



Side note... the E320 runs on stock 195/65 R15's. The blizzaks on my 190E are the stock size 185/65 R15. Aside from the slight speedo and odo inaccuracies, would it be bad if I just use those? :?: They still have a couple of winters left.

[Roadstergal]

It also has to do with the fact that as with the mercedes wagon, the vehicle I buy may be one I keep more than 2 years and have kids, and SUV's are roomy.

SUVs are usually less roomy than a given wagon, and far less roomy than a given minivan.

[JST]

It also has to do with the fact that as with the mercedes wagon, the vehicle I buy may be one I keep more than 2 years and have kids, and SUV's are roomy.

SUVs are usually less roomy than a given wagon, and far less roomy than a given minivan.

Not necessarily true--what do you mean by "a given wagon?" Small SUVs (like the X5) may indeed have less space in some dimensions than certain wagons (like the 5er). And the JGC is ridiculously small inside for its footprint outside. But there are few, if any, wagons for sale today that give you the same interior room as an Explorer, let alone an Expedition or Excursion. Full size wagons are few and far between, and even a Roadmaster or similar has less cargo height than an Explorer or Expedition. Cross-overs like the Freestyle provide stupid amounts of interior room, but are relatively recent and out of mbr's price range.

Your point about minivans is taken, but even I am going to admit that I would rather drive an SUV than a minivan. I'd rather take the bus than drive a minivan. It's completely to do with image, and has nothing to do with practicality, but what are you going to do? We can't always be solely about utility, or else none of us would ever put on a necktie or makeup.

[Roadstergal]

I never put on a necktie or makeup. :D

I need to scan that Grassroots Odyssey vs. Porsche article...

[JST]

I never put on a necktie or makeup. :D

I need to scan that Grassroots Odyssey vs. Porsche article...

I read it, actually.

Understand, I am not making a utility or performance argument. I am making an argument solely and unabashedly based on image (coupled with the fact that, AFAIK, there are no minivans on the US market today with manual transmissions, whereas at least some SUVs still have those). I don't care how fast it goes, how well it stops, or how little it costs, I won't drive a minivan. I just won't do it.

Shallow, perhaps. But at least I'm self-aware.

[FC]

I never put on a necktie or makeup. :D

I need to scan that Grassroots Odyssey vs. Porsche article...

I read it, actually.

Understand, I am not making a utility or performance argument. I am making an argument solely and unabashedly based on image (coupled with the fact that, AFAIK, there are no minivans on the US market today with manual transmissions, whereas at least some SUVs still have those). I don't care how fast it goes, how well it stops, or how little it costs, I won't drive a minivan. I just won't do it.

Shallow, perhaps. But at least I'm self-aware.

I'll have to agree with this.

[Roadstergal]

Admission is the first step... ;)

But it is kind of silly that the SUV became the cool thing to have. Why not firetrucks?

[JST]

Admission is the first step... ;)

But it is kind of silly that the SUV became the cool thing to have. Why not firetrucks?

I never said I didn't want a firetruck.

[Roadstergal]

Are they roomy? This might be the ticket.

[FC]

Admission is the first step... ;)

But it is kind of silly that the SUV became the cool thing to have. Why not firetrucks?

I have no attachment to the cross-over SUV. It is nothing but a jacked-up minivan. But there are some situations where the extra ground clearance becomes a nice feature.

The only reason why I'd consider an SUV is because they don't offer an Acura TL AWD wagon, etc. The only roomy, capable, quality wagons are extremely expensive and not known for their reliability (except for Outbacks).

To me, cross-over SUV's should not exist. Instead, they should make more Outback/allroad/XC70-type vehicles. That way you get all the benefits of a wagon with the one benefit of cross-overs... ground clearance (well and maybe a beefier suspension along with a more rugged exterior).

Let companies sell 4-Runners, Pathfinders, JGC's and Rovers for those who REALLY use their SUV's for what they are intended to be used.

The only reason the Highlander, Rav4, Pilot, and CRV exist is because few people want a Camry or Accord wagon.

[Rob]

But there are few, if any, wagons for sale today that give you the same interior room as an Explorer, let alone an Expedition or Excursion. Full size wagons are few and far between, and even a Roadmaster or similar has less cargo height than an Explorer or Expedition.

I don't know the specs, but the V70 swallows a TON of stuff. It doesn't have the height, but I bet it has more storage than an Explorer. But not more than an Excursion. And I could be wrong.

MBR, cross over SUVs are not jacked up minivans. They don't have the room or the practicality. They are jacked up station wagons (imo of course). Usually small ones.

I am actually looking forward to the wife driving a mini van. It will be very practical. I won't mind taking it to Home Depot at all. I wouldn't want to drive it every day, but I wouldn't want to drive an SUV every day either. We will have the CTS-V for weekend dinners and such.

[lemming]

minivans are much more practical than SUVs; none of us are denying that.

a more rational question to pose is whether or not you NEED that much space.

for example, look again at clyde's picture of the xiT with the clamshell carrier on top and keep in mind you can also still mount things on the rear.

how often does one need more space than that?

when i do? i just rent a ford exploder from enterprise (once, or a pickup, thrice).

[Melissa]

a more rational question to pose is whether or not you NEED that much space.


Exactly what I was going to ask. You have no children (yet), so how much room do you need on a regular basis? If you plan on doing lots of home improvement-type projects, then get a beater pickup truck. If it's because you travel frequently in your car, then someone needs to pack lighter or you need a cartop carrier.

[Roadstergal]

Exactly what I was going to ask. You have no children (yet), so how much room do you need on a regular basis? If you plan on doing lots of home improvement-type projects, then get a beater pickup truck. If it's because you travel frequently in your car, then someone needs to pack lighter or you need a cartop carrier.

I should get a picture of one of my dad's trips to Home Depot in the Mercedes sedan. Fold-down back-seat ski storage lets you get a lot of lumber in one... :smile:

[Rob]

minivans are much more practical than SUVs; none of us are denying that.

a more rational question to pose is whether or not you NEED that much space.

for example, look again at clyde's picture of the xiT with the clamshell carrier on top and keep in mind you can also still mount things on the rear.

how often does one need more space than that?

when i do? i just rent a ford exploder from enterprise (once, or a pickup, thrice).

As I said when Clyde posted that picture - where do you put the bikes? I am hoping with one bike facing forward and one bike facing backwards, I can fit a cargo carrier and two bikes on top of the Volvo. That will work for one kid. I am not sure if it will work for two. Plus, whether you want to admit it's an issue or not, the car top carrier is not convenient. In other words, it's fine for luggage, but not so great for a diaper bag. Another option is a bike or two on back, but that means load the dogs, install the carrier, put the bike on it. When you arrive, take the bike off, take the carrier off, let the dogs out - while they are busy destroying the inside of the car b/c you have arrived, but not let them out.

Granted, we have two 75 lb dogs that make the issue more difficult for us. Without them, the station wagon would serve us indefinately.

[lip277]

You can always get a small utility trailer if "home improvement" activities are making an old beater truck a thought.

I had a pickup for several years. It was nice to be able to get a full sheet of plywood in the bed.

I can do that still. I just hook up the 5x8 trailer to the Yukon and go to the store. :smile:

FYI-I got the Yukon instead of another truck because I figured I carried 'bulk/oversize stuff' about one time for the 100 times I carried people. This is 'stuff' that would need the bed of a truck (that I wouldn't want to put in the back of the Yukon - like bulk topsoil or a load of rock....)

[clyde]

If nothing else, this thread just points out that different people have different needs at different points in their lives. As much as we would all like it to, one size does not fit all at all times. Lucky for us that between all of the different automakers making all of the different models that they do, all of our different needs can be met by at least one product...usually more.

[Melissa]

I should get a picture of one of my dad's trips to Home Depot in the Mercedes sedan. Fold-down back-seat ski storage lets you get a lot of lumber in one... :smile:

I used to buy groceries for 6-8 weeks at a time (two people and two cats) and still had room for a passenger. :P

[JST]

Exactly what I was going to ask. You have no children (yet), so how much room do you need on a regular basis? If you plan on doing lots of home improvement-type projects, then get a beater pickup truck. If it's because you travel frequently in your car, then someone needs to pack lighter or you need a cartop carrier.

I should get a picture of one of my dad's trips to Home Depot in the Mercedes sedan. Fold-down back-seat ski storage lets you get a lot of lumber in one... :smile:

http://www.snopes.com/photos/lumber.asp

[Roadstergal]

Ja, the lumber-haulin' really ruined it...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26059

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=26064

[Roadstergal]

If nothing else, this thread just points out that different people have different needs at different points in their lives. As much as we would all like it to, one size does not fit all at all times. Lucky for us that between all of the different automakers making all of the different models that they do, all of our different needs can be met by at least one product...usually more.

Who's the kumbaya-singer, and what have you done with clyde?

[clyde]

Saving up for later, I guess. :dunno:

truth is, I've been undergoing something of a transformation the past fwe months WRT these issues and have been headed more and more in the direction of "use the proper tool for the job."

[Plaz]

If nothing else, this thread just points out that different people have different needs at different points in their lives. As much as we would all like it to, one size does not fit all at all times. Lucky for us that between all of the different automakers making all of the different models that they do, all of our different needs can be met by at least one product...usually more.

Who's the kumbaya-singer, and what have you done with clyde?

:lol:

I was thinking it was like a Jerry Springer philosophical end comment.

[JetBlack330i]

Why did you include SUV in your title? If a Mazda 3 will do why you even consider a SUV?

Because I'm not a wagon Nazi and if someone could come up with an inexpensive solution then great. I don't want one, but I don't want a Taurus either. But if it will do the job cheaply, then I'd consider it.
So it's all about money?
What happened to your principle? You used to hate SUVs (and the stupid people that drive them without apparent need or reason), no?
And what job are you talking about? How many kids can you get in a couple of years that a wagon wouldn't handle?

[Roadstergal]

How many kids can you get in a couple of years that a wagon wouldn't handle?

Theoretically? :smile:

[FC]

Why did you include SUV in your title? If a Mazda 3 will do why you even consider a SUV?

Because I'm not a wagon Nazi and if someone could come up with an inexpensive solution then great. I don't want one, but I don't want a Taurus either. But if it will do the job cheaply, then I'd consider it.
So it's all about money?
What happened to your principle? You used to hate SUVs (and the stupid people that drive them without apparent need or reason), no?
And what job are you talking about? How many kids can you get in a couple of years that a wagon wouldn't handle?

:? I do hate SUV's. A wagon CAN serve all my needs. Hence my leaning towards the E320 wagon and not used domestic SUV's.

EDIT: Most people don't NEED the SUV they drive. But my pet peeve has not as much to do with families that may have bought an expedition over an AWD Volvo. It has to do with people (and I know many) who are single and could very well get buy with a MINI's worth of space, yet drive Explorers, Pathfinders, etc. Still, I don't condone my cousin, who with two small children and no semblance of an active life, have a Sequoia and a Land Cruiser. One of those vehicles I can maybe understand, but the other? That is all. Cargo and ground clearance aside, a large SUV is a liability not an asset.

[lemming]

Why did you include SUV in your title? If a Mazda 3 will do why you even consider a SUV?

Because I'm not a wagon Nazi and if someone could come up with an inexpensive solution then great. I don't want one, but I don't want a Taurus either. But if it will do the job cheaply, then I'd consider it.
So it's all about money?
What happened to your principle? You used to hate SUVs (and the stupid people that drive them without apparent need or reason), no?
And what job are you talking about? How many kids can you get in a couple of years that a wagon wouldn't handle?

:? I do hate SUV's. A wagon CAN serve all my needs. Hence my leaning towards the E320 wagon and not used domestic SUV's.

EDIT: Most people don't NEED the SUV they drive. But my pet peeve has not as much to do with families that may have bought an expedition over an AWD Volvo. It has to do with people (and I know many) who are single and could very well get buy with a MINI's worth of space, yet drive Explorers, Pathfinders, etc. Still, I don't condone my cousin, who with two small children and no semblance of an active life, have a Sequoia and a Land Cruiser. One of those vehicles I can maybe understand, but the other? That is all. Cargo and ground clearance aside, a large SUV is a liability not an asset.

'soon as i moved back east, i unloaded the SUV because i just couldn't deal with how poorly they handle, how poorly they brake and how tight the streets are around Boston.

handling? you could argue around it and adjust your driving style but i refuse to have to do that.

braking? the issue around here is that traffic will flow at 80mph and then all of a sudden stop in the middle of the highway because of a huge onramp with two or three lanes crashing into the highway.

i don't mind parking on the street, but the garages around here are tight, also.

oh --and they're slow.

[lemming]

have you seen the used cars here?

a lot of 4matic wagons.

www.alphacars.com

nice eye candy.

or these guys (they have really, really, really nice cars):

http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sales/late_model

:smile:

[zcasavant]

have you seen the used cars here?

a lot of 4matic wagons.

www.alphacars.com

nice eye candy.

or these guys (they have really, really, really nice cars):

http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sales/late_model

:smile:

Alpha cars is 10 minutes from my parents' house. They get their x5 serviced there.

Edit: I'm going to go check out some of those E-series cars and report back to my parents. I particularly like the E430 4matic sedan. My dad would look good in that.

[lemming]

have you seen the used cars here?

a lot of 4matic wagons.

www.alphacars.com

nice eye candy.

or these guys (they have really, really, really nice cars):

http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sales/late_model

:smile:

Alpha cars is 10 minutes from my parents' house. They get their x5 serviced there.

Edit: I'm going to go check out some of those E-series cars and report back to my parents. I particularly like the E430 4matic sedan. My dad would look good in that.

have had a good interaction with hatch in the past --new england curmudgeons who know cars; nice to know alpha is solid. i know nuthin' about them, but they look pretty straightforward and have nice cars in their inventory.

[FC]

have you seen the used cars here?

a lot of 4matic wagons.

www.alphacars.com

nice eye candy.

or these guys (they have really, really, really nice cars):

http://www.hatchandsons.com/pages/sales/late_model

:smile:

I know Hatch and Sons. I went to an MB Concours d'Elegance in '98 and they had some jaw-dropping restaurations of 40's and 50's MB's.

That '95 MB E320 wagon they have for $28K is espectacular (and with only 32K miles), but it is 3 times what a wagon with 100K miles demands in the open market. It is meant for collectors.

I've come to the realization that unless it is a pre mid-90's MB, I will only buy new MB's, which will likely not happen either.

[lemming]

'big fan of 4matic wagons.

couldn't justify the price (to myself) for me to commute or putter around in one, but they're awfully nice.

esp. since the new E can be had as an E500 4matic setup. very posh.

[FC]

esp. since the new E can be had as an E500 4matic setup. very posh.

Werd. Also very pricey. :(

[Roadstergal]

My brother wanted to see Park Place. They had the perfect wagon for mbr!

[FC]

My brother wanted to see Park Place. They had the perfect wagon for mbr!

LOL :lol: