E46 brake job DIY?

[Plaz]

Okay, so I know this is an easy thing to do, but have never done it myself.

I need new pads again (already! Less than a year since the last set), and am out of service/warrantee, so this will be my first opportunity.

Any links to a good step-by-step DIY for the E46?

Also, any preferred vendors for Axxis pads?

Will I need to buy new pad sensors, too?

[zcasavant]

Okay, so I know this is an easy thing to do, but have never done it myself.

I need new pads again (already! Less than a year since the last set), and am out of service/warrantee, so this will be my first opportunity.

Any links to a good step-by-step DIY for the E46?

Also, any preferred vendors for Axxis pads?

Will I need to buy new pad sensors, too?

This thread has links to a few. I used it to change the pads on my mom's X5.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40523

Get pads from Zeckhausen.

You won't need sensors unless the dash light is on.

[Roadstergal]

Eurasian is the cheapest... you can get ATE fluid there, too.

You could use the E46 M3 DIY over at the 'Fest to change E30 pads. That's one system that hasn't changed much.

[Plaz]

You won't need sensors unless the dash light is on.

Unfortunately, it is.

Thanks for the pointers.

[zcasavant]

You won't need sensors unless the dash light is on.

Unfortunately, it is.

Thanks for the pointers.

Make sure you have some sort of clamp to pry the caliper open.

[Plaz]

Just looked at the referenced threads...

Holy crap, that's simple.

Thanks again.

Do I need to buy some assorted C-clamps, or will I be able to get away with using a large Vise-grip?

[zcasavant]

Just looked at the referenced threads...

Holy crap, that's simple.

Thanks again.

Do I need to buy some assorted C-clamps, or will I be able to get away with using a large Vise-grip?

I don't think they make a vise-grip that's big enough. Not 100% sure.

I used one large clamp.

[zcasavant]

Just looked at the referenced threads...

Holy crap, that's simple.

Thanks again.

Do I need to buy some assorted C-clamps, or will I be able to get away with using a large Vise-grip?

Oh, and another thing, OPEN YOUR BRAKE FLUID RESERVOIR before you start. Also, if it's full, opening the calipers will cause overflow. Be prepared for that.

[SteveM]

You could probably find a vise grip designed for welding that would be big enough to squish a piston into a caliper, but it's far simpler to use a C-clamp. I haven't changed pads on the BMW yet, but have done countless other cars. It is sometimes easier to use the old brake pad on the piston so the C-clamp doesn't have to go into the hollow part of the piston.

I used to use a turkey blaster to suck out some brake fluid prior to pushing the pistons back. A hand pump Mityvac works well too (the small ones for brake bleeding).

[FC]

It is sometimes easier to use the old brake pad on the piston so the C-clamp doesn't have to go into the hollow part of the piston.

...suck out some brake fluid prior to pushing the pistons back.

That is what I did when replacing the brakes on my 190E.

[zcasavant]

More advice:

Don't bed in your brakes around LarryN's house. The cops don't think 0-70-10-70-10-70 etc. mph runs are funny at all.

[Plaz]

More advice:

Don't bed in your brakes around LarryN's house. The cops don't think 0-70-10-70-10-70 etc. mph runs are funny at all.

:lol:

I'll use the road through the Great Swamp. :D

[Nick M3]

One thing:

When switching pad compounds, switch ALL the pads. In particular, you do NOT want a better pad in the back than you have up front.

[Rob]

If you decide you want to use stock pads, I have a set and a half (one rear set and two front sets) that I would sell really cheap. Shipping might be prohibitive though. ;)

[Plaz]

One thing:

When switching pad compounds, switch ALL the pads. In particular, you do NOT want a better pad in the back than you have up front.

Thanks... I was planning on doing all four.

I never go with different tires front and rear... wouldn't think of it with pads either.

[Plaz]

If you decide you want to use stock pads, I have a set and a half (one rear set and two front sets) that I would sell really cheap. Shipping might be prohibitive though. ;)

If I can live with the Axxis pads, I will... I'm sick of the voluminous OEM dust. If they don't feel like they bite enough though, I'll go back to OEM next time.

[zcasavant]

If you decide you want to use stock pads, I have a set and a half (one rear set and two front sets) that I would sell really cheap. Shipping might be prohibitive though. ;)

If I can live with the Axxis pads, I will... I'm sick of the voluminous OEM dust. If they don't feel like they bite enough though, I'll go back to OEM next time.

So you're going with Axxis Deluxe? I've heard enough bad things about those. I'd go with Ultimates.

[Plaz]

If you decide you want to use stock pads, I have a set and a half (one rear set and two front sets) that I would sell really cheap. Shipping might be prohibitive though. ;)

If I can live with the Axxis pads, I will... I'm sick of the voluminous OEM dust. If they don't feel like they bite enough though, I'll go back to OEM next time.

So you're going with Axxis Deluxe? I've heard enough bad things about those. I'd go with Ultimates.

I hadn't done my homework to get that specific yet. I just recall good reviews on the various boards for "Axxis" pads -- grabs great, less dusting.

:dunno:

But if it's Ultimates that get the universal thumbs up, well, then :thumbup:

[Nick M3]

I like the Axxis Deluxe Plus for street use. It's about 80% of OEM, which is fine.

Zeckhausen has said that Hawk is about to release some new ceramic compound that's apparently as dustless as the Deluxe Plus, but brakes better. I wouldn't bother for my car, but that's probably because everythign feels liek shit when you're used to track pads.

And you can run different pad compounds. BMW does from the factory (the front and rear pads are from entirely different manufacturers), and it's not good to run the same high torque track pad all around without a brake proportioning valve.

[stuka]

Uh, come to the next SCTS Tech Session? :twisted:

That is, if you can shovel your way here. :lol:

[Plaz]

Uh, come to the next SCTS Tech Session? :twisted:

That is, if you can shovel your way here. :lol:

:twisted: :lol:

[Roadstergal]

I ran Axxis/PBR/Repco Metalmasters on the E30. Fine for a street pad, very little dust, and what there was was light in color.

I used a C-clamp with a flat piece of wood over the piston.

Open the reservoir and put some rags around it.

Eurasian will get you the sensors, too.

[operknockity]

Do I need to buy some assorted C-clamps, or will I be able to get away with using a large Vise-grip?
You may (or may not wanna buy one of these given how little it might get used, but this is what we used when we did my rotors/pads a couple of weeks back. It made pushing in the pistons very easy!

Speedy Brake Pad Spreader:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=597.
I think they go for about 30-35 bucks from the on-line tool stores.

[Plaz]

Do I need to buy some assorted C-clamps, or will I be able to get away with using a large Vise-grip?
You may (or may not wanna buy one of these given how little it might get used, but this is what we used when we did my rotors/pads a couple of weeks back. It made pushing in the pistons very easy!

Speedy Brake Pad Spreader:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=597.

Slick! Where'd you pick that up?

[operknockity]

Do I need to buy some assorted C-clamps, or will I be able to get away with using a large Vise-grip?
You may (or may not wanna buy one of these given how little it might get used, but this is what we used when we did my rotors/pads a couple of weeks back. It made pushing in the pistons very easy!

Speedy Brake Pad Spreader:
http://forums.carmudgeons.com/album_pic.php?pic_id=597.

Slick! Where'd you pick that up?
Since we did the Tech Session an European Motor Works (Imad's shop), he let us use some of his tools.

[operknockity]

Do a google search for "speedy brake pad spreader" and you'll find a bunch of on-line stores selling them.... For example Tool Barn has 'em for $32.95 (http://www.autobarn.net/lispbrpadsp.html). (Note, I have no experience buying from these guys, it was just one of the first of the google hits.)

I think Hack is gonna buy one for himself, he was so impressed with it at the tech session. :lol:

[Roadstergal]

Speedy Brake Pad Spreader:

And you can do PAP smears with them, too... :speechle:

[operknockity]

Speedy Brake Pad Spreader:

And you can do PAP smears with them, too... :speechle:
:? :? :?

[Roadstergal]

It bears a suitably horrible resemblace to a speculum.

[Plaz]

It bears a suitably horrible resemblace to a speculum.

:lol:

Finally, I'll have a justification for getting one of those chairs, too! :lol:

[lip277]

I ran Axxis/PBR/Repco Metalmasters on the E30. Fine for a street pad, very little dust, and what there was was light in color.

I used a C-clamp with a flat piece of wood over the piston.

Open the reservoir and put some rags around it.

Eurasian will get you the sensors, too.

What she said.......

I've used those pads in my Merdedes and 2002 for as long as I've had either car (Mercedes since 1992, 2002 since 1984 or so). I used to use Metalmasters but found they started getting real 'squeaky' after a few thousand miles (on the 02 - I did that in 1983 I think). That and I was hearing they ate rotors more quickly than the Deluxe..... Don't know if it was really true FWIW....

[Roadstergal]

The metalmasters do get a little squeaky over time. I've heard they're harder on the rotors than stockers, but only to the point where there will be less meat when you swap rotors, not that you'll need to change rotors early, so I went for them anyway.

[lip277]

The metalmasters do get a little squeaky over time. I've heard they're harder on the rotors than stockers, but only to the point where there will be less meat when you swap rotors, not that you'll need to change rotors early, so I went for them anyway.

I still have the original rotors on the 2002........ 32 years, 240,000 miles.
(Edit - I remember replacing them in 1990 or so.... Maybe. I really don't know. I know it wouldn't have been because I 'needed' to. It would have been more from the 'because I'm there' so to speak.....)

:shock:
:lol:

(And the brakes do not PULL or SHIMMY at all)

:twisted:

[bren]

Zeckhausen has said that Hawk is about to release some new ceramic compound that's apparently as dustless as the Deluxe Plus, but brakes better. I wouldn't bother for my car, but that's probably because everythign feels liek shit when you're used to track pads.

Those pads are on his site now....he mentioned that he ordered something like 3x more of these than any other pad before b/c they are that good.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/BMW/E46.htm

[rumatt]

Finally, I'll have a justification for getting one of those chairs, too! :lol:

:lol:


Plaz, I'd be happy to help with the brakes if you need it. Of course, you should be aware that I've never done brakes before, I don't know much about working on cars in general, and I don't really have any tools that would be helpful... :speechle:

Seriously though, I'll be doing mine if I decide to use upgraded pads for the track school in April. It doesn't look that bad, but I have to admit it'd be nice to have someone with experience there to help.

Changing the brake fluid looks like a bigger PITA, but I'm going to give that a shot too. Do you need new brake fluid too? Maybe we should have a fluid-fest. :speechle:

[SCA]

Zeckhausen has said that Hawk is about to release some new ceramic compound that's apparently as dustless as the Deluxe Plus, but brakes better. I wouldn't bother for my car, but that's probably because everythign feels liek shit when you're used to track pads.

I believe it might already be available. I was shopping around at TireRack and saw that they now offer a Hawk ceramic pad for the E34. I currently have the Hawk HPS pads on the front. I was thinking about using the ceramic pads on the rear.

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/brakes.jsp?autoMake=BMW&autoModel=525i&autoYear=19 92&autoModClar=&make=Hawk&model=Performance+Cerami c+Pads

[operknockity]

Changing the brake fluid looks like a bigger PITA, but I'm going to give that a shot too.
A brake fluid flush is actually pretty easy, but can be messy if you don't take precautions.

Beg or borrow a pressure bleeder like the Motiv one that BavAuto sells. It also helps to have a catch bottle rather than just letting the old fluid squirt/ooze out of the bleeder valves. Just get some plastic tubing (off hand I forget the diameter but can find out relatively quickly, if needed), and run one end in to any old plastic bottle (like an old gatorade bottle). You'll also need a 9mm flare nut wrench to open/close the brake bleeder valves and a 7mm wrench (flare nut if you have one, but open or box end will do) for the clutch bleeder valve. (Wrench sizes are for an E46. E36 is different but I can't remember what they were when Steve did a fluid flush in parallel with mine. Others models, I have no idea!)

Check over on the 'Fest for brake/clutch bleed/flush threads for the particulars.

If you can wait until June/July, I'll be in NY and could pop down for a day to meet the Jersey 'festers/'mudgeons and help out :lol:

[Rob]

i prefer to catch the brake fluid in a wine bottle. You have to be careful not to break it, but it has more mass than plastic bottles, so it doesn't tip on it's own and the neck is taller, so you don't have to hold the bottle up to keep the tubing in it if your tube is short.

Any auto parts store will also carry a "one man bleeder kit." I am not entirely clear on how the expect one man to do the job, but it has a tiny catch bottle and the right size tube.

[Plaz]

Plaz, I'd be happy to help with the brakes if you need it. Of course, you should be aware that I've never done brakes before, I don't know much about working on cars in general, and I don't really have any tools that would be helpful... :speechle:

:lol:

Seriously though, I'll be doing mine if I decide to use upgraded pads for the track school in April. It doesn't look that bad, but I have to admit it'd be nice to have someone with experience there to help.

Changing the brake fluid looks like a bigger PITA, but I'm going to give that a shot too. Do you need new brake fluid too? Maybe we should have a fluid-fest. :speechle:

I had the whole system flushed/filled at the stealership early last summer... I wasn't planning on doing that as part of this simple little pad change. Is it recommended practice to bleed the system when doing a simple pad replacement?

(In case anyone hasn't caught on by now, I'm awfully clueless on this. :paranoid: )

[zcasavant]

Plaz, I'd be happy to help with the brakes if you need it. Of course, you should be aware that I've never done brakes before, I don't know much about working on cars in general, and I don't really have any tools that would be helpful... :speechle:

:lol:

Seriously though, I'll be doing mine if I decide to use upgraded pads for the track school in April. It doesn't look that bad, but I have to admit it'd be nice to have someone with experience there to help.

Changing the brake fluid looks like a bigger PITA, but I'm going to give that a shot too. Do you need new brake fluid too? Maybe we should have a fluid-fest. :speechle:

I had the whole system flushed/filled at the stealership early last summer... I wasn't planning on doing that as part of this simple little pad change. Is it recommended practice to bleed the system when doing a simple pad replacement?

(In case anyone hasn't caught on by now, I'm awfully clueless on this. :paranoid: )

Nah, don't worry about it. Just keep in mind that some will spill if you don't siphon a bit out.

[Rob]

Yes. It takes an extra 2 minutes and you might get some air out of the lines. It's always a good idea to bleed when you are moving the calipers manually. I don't really know if it makes a difference, but the brake bleed is literally no effort at all if you have a partner (or a pressure bleeder).

[operknockity]

Any auto parts store will also carry a "one man bleeder kit." I am not entirely clear on how the expect one man to do the job, but it has a tiny catch bottle and the right size tube.
I haven't looked at those in the stores, but have seen things on-line with that name. The one time I actually took more than a glancing notice of it, it seemed to me to be of the vacuum bleed style where it sucks fluid through the bleeder valve vs the pressure-style where you force fluid from the resevoir out the bleeder valve. Just be carefull with the vacuum system that the resevoir doesn't run dry or you'll just get more air in the system.

[operknockity]

Plaz, I'd be happy to help with the brakes if you need it. Of course, you should be aware that I've never done brakes before, I don't know much about working on cars in general, and I don't really have any tools that would be helpful... :speechle:

:lol:

Seriously though, I'll be doing mine if I decide to use upgraded pads for the track school in April. It doesn't look that bad, but I have to admit it'd be nice to have someone with experience there to help.

Changing the brake fluid looks like a bigger PITA, but I'm going to give that a shot too. Do you need new brake fluid too? Maybe we should have a fluid-fest. :speechle:

I had the whole system flushed/filled at the stealership early last summer... I wasn't planning on doing that as part of this simple little pad change. Is it recommended practice to bleed the system when doing a simple pad replacement?

(In case anyone hasn't caught on by now, I'm awfully clueless on this. :paranoid: )

Nah, don't worry about it. Just keep in mind that some will spill if you don't siphon a bit out.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/images/smilies/whacky10.gif

[SCA]

I had actually ordered one of these last weekend.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html

I'm planning on doing a brake flush when I change the rear pads and rotors.

[operknockity]

I had actually ordered one of these last weekend.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html

I'm planning on doing a brake flush when I change the rear pads and rotors.
Did you get the base model "european" version or the "black label" version with the extra long hose, swivel adapter, and the spiffy aluminum resevoir adapter?

[Rob]

I had actually ordered one of these last weekend.

http://www.motiveproducts.com/02bleeders.html

I'm planning on doing a brake flush when I change the rear pads and rotors.

Those are not the one man bleeder kits I was referring too. You can do it with one person using one of those things. The kits I am talking about have a tiny little resevoir bottle and some tubing. I bought one to get the tubing. It was like $6 I think.

Here's a question though - and I realize I am about to look like an idiot - if you put fluid in the pressure bleeder and hook the top up to the master cylinder that you have already removed some fluid with a baster, how do you prevent air from getting in the system? Honestly, I always thought you just used the bleeder to supply air pressure to a filled master cylinder.

[lip277]

I've been using one of these for more than 15 years.......

http://www.eastwood.com/images/us/local/products/detail/p8668.jpg

What I like about the Eezibleed above some other ones is that you don't have to put as much brake fluid in the bottle if you don't want to (saves on wasted material)

Like I said I've had mine for quite a while and love it. I've just had to replace the gasket/o-ring (on the cap of the bottle) a couple of times.

I bought mine from these fellas (http://www.aep.bigstep.com/index.html)

It also comes stock with the cap that fits both my old 2002 and 'new' Mercedes. Didn't have mess with any other adapters or the like.

Just my 02 cents worth.....

[lip277]

Those are not the one man bleeder kits I was referring too. You can do it with one person using one of those things. The kits I am talking about have a tiny little resevoir bottle and some tubing. I bought one to get the tubing. It was like $6 I think..

I tried one of those years and years ago. Didn't worth worth beans. That's when I bought the Eezibleeder.


Here's a question though - and I realize I am about to look like an idiot - if you put fluid in the pressure bleeder and hook the top up to the master cylinder that you have already removed some fluid with a baster, how do you prevent air from getting in the system? Honestly, I always thought you just used the bleeder to supply air pressure to a filled master cylinder.

What the pressure bleeder does is indeed apply pressure to the fluid in the resevoir. That pressure is transferred through the brake system and you bleed the brakes just by opening the bleed nipples on the calipers.
The pressure bleeders have their own fluid to replace the fluid you remove out the other end.

So....
Here's a way to think of this.....

Air pressure comes in the pressure bleeder-
Pressure pushes on the top of the fluid in bleeder.
The tube feeding the car resevoir is in the body of the fluid in the bleeder (like a straw in the drink)
Bleeder fluid goes through tube into car resevoir (pushing on that fluid)
Then that fluid is pressureized and waits to go out the caliper (when you crack the bleed nipple)

When you remove some fluid out the caliper, the fluid level goes down in the car resevoir. The fluid in the tube coming from the bleeder replaces that 'spent' fluid.

So.... The car resevoir never runs out of fluid as long as the bleeder has not.

Hope this helps......

[JetBlack330i]

Speedy Brake Pad Spreader:

And you can do PAP smears with them, too... :speechle:Would that turkey blaster be involved in this? :lol:

[Rob]

So....
Here's a way to think of this.....

Air pressure comes in the pressure bleeder-
Pressure pushes on the top of the fluid in bleeder.
The tube feeding the car resevoir is in the body of the fluid in the bleeder (like a straw in the drink)
Bleeder fluid goes through tube into car resevoir (pushing on that fluid)
Then that fluid is pressureized and waits to go out the caliper (when you crack the bleed nipple)

When you remove some fluid out the caliper, the fluid level goes down in the car resevoir. The fluid in the tube coming from the bleeder replaces that 'spent' fluid.

So.... The car resevoir never runs out of fluid as long as the bleeder has not.

Hope this helps......

Well, here's the question. The master cylinder has some air in it. It has to. The pressure bleeder pushes down with fluid. I am wondering why the fluid from the pressure bleeder doesn't force the air that is already in the master cylinder into the brake line. I suppose it might be enough volume so the air returns to the surface as the new fluid goes in.

[SteveM]

Speedy Brake Pad Spreader:

And you can do PAP smears with them, too... :speechle:Would that turkey blaster be involved in this? :lol:


:lol: :lol:

[operknockity]

Well, here's the question. The master cylinder has some air in it. It has to. The pressure bleeder pushes down with fluid. I am wondering why the fluid from the pressure bleeder doesn't force the air that is already in the master cylinder into the brake line. I suppose it might be enough volume so the air returns to the surface as the new fluid goes in.
Bingo!

[Roadstergal]

Pressure bleeders are good. But so are speed bleeders - I had them on the old Miata and will put them on the new one. The advantage they have over the pressure bleeders is the lack of another unit to have to store and clean.

[Plaz]

Changed all the pads yesterday, to the Hawk performance ceramics. The job got much easier/quicker with the experience of each successive wheel. I probably spent 45 minutes on the first one, and about 10 minutes on the last one.

Realized after the 1st wheel that my old pads had PLENTY of life left on them... seems the sensor wire on the front driver's side somehow got rubbed, lost its insulation and broke the circuit to light up my idiot light. Oh well.

Didn't have a pressure bleeder or a partner, so I did no bleeding/flushing. I also didn't have a down/drive adapter to allow me to use a torque wrench on the caliper bolts with my 7mm Hex socket... hope that's not an issue. I just tightened them very tight by hand.

Even after bedding in the new pads (quite thoroughly :paranoid: ), the pedal feel is still much less firm than it was before. I'm not sure if the system just needs a bleed (probably) or if these pads somehow just take more force to do the same job (unlikely).

These pads are definitely a little noisier than OEM (though bedding them in made them much less noisy than they were just prior). They also seem to have a bit less bite, though that may do better after another burnishing cycle.

Impossible to judge the dust factor at this point.

I'll live with them for a week, and see how the feel evolves (and how I adapt) as they break in some more. If it still feels a little mushy to me, I'll get someone to help with a bleed next weekend.

Thanks again for all the help and pointers.

:thumbup:

[kognito]

I'll live with them for a week, and see how the feel evolves (and how I adapt) as they break in some more. If it still feels a little mushy to me, I'll get someone to help with a bleed next weekend.

Thanks again for all the help and pointers.

:thumbup:

I can lend you and hand (or a foot) next Saturday (Sunday is no good)

Was pedal mushy before changing pads? Cause just a pad change shouldn't effect the feel of the pedal, unless rotors needed turning down

[Plaz]

Was pedal mushy before changing pads? Cause just a pad change shouldn't effect the feel of the pedal, unless rotors needed turning down

No, it wasn't mushy. A little less firm than I'd like, but definitely not mushy.

[rumatt]

Sorry you're having trouble.

You should have taken me up on my offer to help you. :lol:

[TD]

Did you open the brake fluid reservoir at any point? You may need to simply go out and pump the pedal (with the car running) until the pedal firms up. It should stay firm afterwords.

[Plaz]

Did you open the brake fluid reservoir at any point? You may need to simply go out and pump the pedal (with the car running) until the pedal firms up. It should stay firm afterwords.

You're probably right... I drove quite a bit today and it seemed to get progressively firmer throughout. I had the reservoir open essentially for the duration of the process. The level rose, but never overflowed as I clamped the calipers.

I pumped the pedal a bit right away, before setting off on my bedding-in trip. The pedal sunk to the floor on the very first pump, and the brake failure idiot light came on. A few pumps and the system was usable, and the idiot light went out after rebooting the car.

[zcasavant]

...rebooting the car.

For some reason, this depresses me.