BMW ZHP Stalled Last Night, Help?

[lupinsea]

Hey guys.

Odd happening with the ZHP last night I'd like to ask you about. The car stalled out on me as if it was low on fuel or something and wouldn't restart. I was running with the low fuel light but it had "just" come on and the on-board computer was still showing 50 miles until empty. In theory I had plenty of gas to get home (12 miles from when the low fuel light came on) and it's a drive I've made under similar fuel circumstances many many many times before without issue.

About an hour later when I the tow truck driver was unloading my car at the mechanic's parking lot, he fired it up and drove it into a park spot. Granted, he only drove it about 15 ft. But when it had stalled out on me I tried for a couple minutes to restart the car with no luck.

Thoughts?



Oh, and the full story:

Yesterday afternoon on my way home my ZHP flat out died on the freeway. Just as soon as passed the point of no return for the freeway on-ramp the engine bogged down a bit but after 10-15 seconds the revs picked back up and it seemed fine, though it spooked me and I was trying to get it to the next exit (a bit far off on the express lanes). About 1/2 mile from the exit the engine started bogging down again, then flat out died. I couldn't get it restarted after a couple minutes of trying and rush hour traffic quickly backed up behind me. I had been stranded in the dead center of the lane. Not that there were any shoulders to pull off on in that particular stretch of road. For about 5 minutes I was "that guy" to stalls in the middle of the road blocking traffic during rush hour. Another motorist in a Nissan Xterra pulled in front of me and offered to tow my car to the nearest shoulder (which he did, super helpful) which also happened to have a WA State Patrol Officer there. The officer called AAA for me (since I had forgotten my cell phone at home that morning, of course). Then he let me use his personal cell to call my wife to let her know she'd have to cancel her evening appointment because I'd be late getting home.

The AAA guy showed up and when he asked for my AAA card, of course it wasn't in my wallet (I have no clue where it is an need to get a replacement). Fortunately he called in my driver's licensee and confirmed I had a AAA account for a free tow service, the proceeded to load up the ZHP and haul it down to our local mechanic in Kenmore. Once there I asked if he could help get the car into an actual parking spot. When it was lowered off the flat bed ramp he fired up the car and drove it backwards about 10 ft or so.

I left it there over night not knowing exactly what was up with it so I could talk to the mechanic this morning.

This morning rolls around and I head down with my Jeep and a spare 5 gal. jug of premium gasoline. After a brief talk with the mechanic he suggest I fill it up with the gas and drive it around the local neighborhood streets and see if it stalls out again. So I do this and for the next 20-30 minutes of hard driving bombing around back roads the car is running perfectly fine, as if nothing was wrong with it. Talked to the mechanic after the drive and he said he'd be happy to look at but I could also keep driving it to replicate the occurance to help pinpoint the problem.

I've decided to drive the Jeep for the next few days and then take the ZHP out in the evenings when there is no traffic to block up and see if the ZHP stalls out like that again.

Do you guys have any clue as to what was up?

Was it simply out of gas even though the guage / on-board computer was showing I had another 50 miles of range?

I've never run out of gas before. Not a big deal if this is simply what it was, I just need to remember that I can't trust the on-board computer if that's the case. But is there a chance this could be something else?

[rumatt]

The only thing I have to offer is that I had a somewhat related experience (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?t=31136&highlight=lights) once, then never happened again.

Also, my car sometimes now stalls at red lights after I've been driving it for a while. I suspect it's just the idle logic though. It starts right up again.

[hfh330i]

No idiot lights or anything? Just before I turned mine in at the end of its lease the vanos failed, it stalled and lost power. It started up, but ran rough, go it home (a couple of blocks). Started up fine the next day and drove it to the dealer. Replaced either the vanos system or the seals. Not sure which. I did have a check engine light though when the stall happened.

[TD]

If there were no idiot lights, considering your description of what happened, I would guess you ran out of gas.

I ran out of gas once and I also had a fuel pump fail once and the dying process each time closely matched what you described. No idiot lights when I ran out of gas but a big CEL when the fuel pump failed (this was on the Saab).

The fuel light usually comes on with 47 miles to go. I would suspect a faulty fuel gauge. You could try running it down to that fuel level again and, with a can of gas in the trunk, drive around neighborhood streets with shoulders to see if it repeats. Granted running our of gas isn't good for your car. But it's a lot cheaper than a mechanics diagnosis given this seems like a hard to diagnose problem.

[FC]

No real help here, but I will tell my remotely similar story re: fuel cut-off/out of gas feel.

My car had the runing out of fuel symptom at every cold start for about half a second when I put it in 1st and hit the gas from having had backed out of the garage (whihc it always did with no issues).

I basically just got tired of bitching to the dealer about it. I left it overnight, wrote painfully detailed instructions on exactly what to do to replicate it. After 3 attempts they managed to replicate it but told me they had no idea what was wrong and everything else looked ok. So after that I gave up and assumed it was one of those ZHP idiosincracies.

My gut feel always told me it was fuel related - filter, pump, injectors, etc. But truth be told, it never manifested itself adversely, so I just lived with it. Well, except it would stall if I hit the right amount of gas when going to first - but that was merely a nuisance.

I assume your car got the coil recall done?

[hfh330i]

No real help here, but I will tell my remotely similar story re: fuel cut-off/out of gas feel.

My car had the runing out of fuel symptom at every cold start for about half a second when I put it in 1st and hit the gas from having had backed out of the garage (whihc it always did with no issues).

I basically just got tired of bitching to the dealer about it. I left it overnight, wrote painfully detailed instructions on exactly what to do to replicate it. After 3 attempts they managed to replicate it but told me they had no idea what was wrong and everything else looked ok. So after that I gave up and assumed it was one of those ZHP idiosincracies.

My gut feel always told me it was fuel related - filter, pump, injectors, etc. But truth be told, it never manifested itself adversely, so I just lived with it. Well, except it would stall if I hit the right amount of gas when going to first - but that was merely a nuisance.

I assume your car got the coil recall done?

Ahhh memories...I loved that car.

[ff]

Also, my car sometimes now stalls at red lights after I've been driving it for a while. I suspect it's just the idle logic though. It starts right up again.

The ZHP that I owned never stalled. Not even once. So I apologize that I can't be of any help here.

I had it at the dealer 4 times, and they could never figure out what was wrong. They reflashed the computer, and that helped for a week or two. Then right back to the same behavior.

[FC]

Ahhh memories...I loved that car.

Me too. And my car is for sale. (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=277649802&dealer_id=65183403&car_year=2003&rdm=1279721959283&lastStartYear=1981&model=330I&num_records=100&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2003&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=500&marketZipError=false&color2=&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=BMW&keywords_display=&color=RED&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=02021&advanced=y&end_year=2003&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=222&standard=false)

[equ]

Neither of my zhp's had this. On any "regular" car, that would likely be a pump (and they go around 100k) but who knows with bmw's?

[Plaz]

My brain has stalled several times in the last week or so.

I'm not sure if there was one or not, but an idiot light illuminating on my forehead would have been more than appropriate.

[kognito]

Me too. And my car is for sale. (http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=p&car_id=277649802&dealer_id=65183403&car_year=2003&rdm=1279721959283&lastStartYear=1981&model=330I&num_records=100&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2003&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=500&marketZipError=false&color2=&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=BMW&keywords_display=&color=RED&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=02021&advanced=y&end_year=2003&doors=&transmission=Manual&max_price=&cardist=222&standard=false)

That is actually your car?? or just the same packages??

[FC]

That is actually your car?? or just the same packages??

No, that is MY car. that is the guy I sold it to and those are actually MY photos taken at my work in 8/08.

Hell, he even copied language form my ad.

[lupinsea]

Thanks guys.

It's a puzzler for sure. I'm thinking I just ran out of gas and for whatever reasons the onboard computer's distance-til-empty reading was off. And no, no idiot lights, no CEL, no other abnormal readings on the instrument cluster. And when I drove around the next morning everything seemed perfectly normal, like the stall the day before never happened.

Occasionally the ZHP would stall out when I was idling at a stop light. While certainly annoying for any modern car it wasn't a major issue. Just fire the car up again and no problem, all was good to go again. (BTW, did anyone figure out why the ZHP seems to have this problem? I haven't heard of other 3 series models stalling out like that) But this wasn't like that: Engine bogging down while driving, then surging, then more bogging and severe loss of power and finally it flat out died and would not restart.

I haven't been driving the ZHP since then simply because I have another concrete pour on the shed and limited time to get things prepped. I didn't want another stall to royally f-up preparations for that by sucking up another evening's worth of work waiting for a tow truck. So I've been driving the Jeep around . . . which, incidentally, drives just as fast as the BMW in rush hour traffic.

And next week I'll be preparing for another 4-day Jeep run so I don't want to mess with a potential stall there. I'll probably start driving the BMW around again after next weekend (August 2nd).

[rumatt]

(BTW, did anyone figure out why the ZHP seems to have this problem? I haven't heard of other 3 series models stalling out like that)

yes you have (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=275969&postcount=2)

[lupinsea]

Car won't start again. Fortunately it's in my driveway this time. It has plenty of gas. Engine cranks over. It just won't start. The night before I had no problem driving home from work.

Called the mechanic and got an appointment so I'll be having it hauled down to his place in the next day or two. At this point I'm sort of hoping won't start randomly again so that it'll hopefully be easier for the mechanics to figure out what's wrong.



In the mean time I'm driving my Jeep . . . which has a bent axleshaft. It's not too bad though. Need to order a new part, however. But it's certainly drivable.

[bren]

Car won't start again. Fortunately it's in my driveway this time. It has plenty of gas. Engine cranks over. It just won't start. The night before I had no problem driving home from work.

Called the mechanic and got an appointment so I'll be having it hauled down to his place in the next day or two.
That sounds like the crank position sensor - isn't that known issue with BMW's?

http://www.pelicanparts.com/bmw/techarticles/101-Projects-15-Crankshaft-Sensor/101-Projects-15-Crankshaft-Sensor.htm

[lupinsea]

Hm. Is this something that would trip a check engine light? Because there are no warning or idiot lights on the instrument cluster that are coming on. As far as I can tell from looking at the dash all is normal. The car just won't start.

Interestingly enough, the CPS is a semi-common issue on the Jeeps, too. But The engine bay isn't as cramped and it's easier to get to.

One thing, though, is taht in the past I've burned up a lot of time and wasted money replacing parts that didn't need to be replaced trying to fix something myself. With this I'm inclined to take it into the mechanic to let him figure it out. I suck at diagnostic work on cars.

[bren]

I know the 4.0 jeeps have a problem with it, and that's why I wasn't sure if I was confusing it with a common BMW issue.

It sounds like it might store a code, but I'm not sure about the CEL.
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1209578

[lupinsea]

Had the car towed into the mechanic this morning. Got the diagnosis this afternoon:

Burned out fuel pump.

He's replacing that, the fuel filter, and relay.

Parts, labor, taxes, out the door = $885.

Should be ready tomorrow afternoon.

Oh, and I have a $30 off coupon from the shop's website. Not much but it helps.

[Nick M3]

How much labor is he charging? The fuel pump takes a couple minutes to swap.

[ff]

Parts, labor, taxes, out the door = $885.


You've got to be shitting me. :rolleyes:

[clyde]

You've got to be shitting me. :rolleyes:

A friend just got quoted $1300 for brakes on his 2006 330. I think he's going to bring the car to Clyde's garage to get some instruction and heckling later in September. JST...want in on that action? ;)

[FC]

Someone got quoted ~$600+ to replace pads all around in an MB GL and the other posters said that sounded right.

[ff]

Someone got quoted ~$600+ to replace pads all around in an MB GL and the other posters said that sounded right.

I'd post a picture of someone getting raped from behind with a gravel-studed baseball bat, but that probably wouldn't be appropriate.

[JST]

@clyde--sure. Let me know when your doing it. I mean, he's only got one kid and is married to an attorney--how big a problem could my incompetence cause?

[rumatt]

I mean, he's only got one kid and is married to an attorney--how big a problem could my incompetence cause?

Depends... Is he as skilled as Zach at driving without brakes (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=87285&postcount=4)?

[zcasavant]

Depends... Is he as skilled as Zach at driving without brakes (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=87285&postcount=4)?

:flipoff:

I'll have you know that I was plenty skilled. There was actually a lot of snow on the ground so that made it pretty interesting.

[rumatt]

:flipoff:


What are you flipping me off for. I was complimenting you! :lol:

[equ]

Brakes are useless in snow anyway...

[kognito]

Brakes are useless in snow anyway...


Or at least way overrated . . .

[bren]

Burned out fuel pump.

He's replacing that, the fuel filter, and relay.

So he's throwing a bunch of parts at it and hoping for the best? :p

[Plaz]

I'd post a picture of someone getting raped from behind with a gravel-studed baseball bat, but that probably wouldn't be appropriate.

I just paid a stupid buttrape-like amount for an all-four-corners pad and rotor change on my MCS. I just didn't have the time or motivation to do it myself this time. I wish it had cost less, but I'm just happy it's done now and the task is not hanging over me as it had been for a couple of months.

[TD]

For me, the hassle of taking the car to a shop is a bigger PITA than doing either oil or brakes. A couple of hours in the garage on a weekend afternoon is much less aggravating than dealing with drop-off and pick-up. And I'm really not a fan of the anal rape. Paying $700+ for front brakes is just silly.

[lupinsea]

So he's throwing a bunch of parts at it and hoping for the best? :p

The thought was that not knowing exactly how the pump failed it wouldn't be a bad idea to replace the fuel filter, too, in case any potential crud from a deteriorating pump was sent down the line to the filter.

Given that we have 110k+ miles on the car and the fuel filter has never been changed I figured why not. And the relay. . . might as well.



As for the rest I'm not too familiar with what all is involved on with replacing the fuel pump on a 330i. But if it's an in-tank unit like on my Jeep then I can image it'd be a minor PITA, or at least somewhat time consuming. It's not that it's hard to get to the Jeep's fuel pump, for instance, but you have to drop the tank from the rig. Easy to do as it's just "right there" but it still takes some time farting around with hoses, connections, routing, and unclipping and bolting everything. X2 to put it all back together. Anyways, few hours on the fuel pump removal and replacement + couple hundred for the pump (?) and I can see it getting up there.

Plus the near 10% sales tax we have in WA state.

Normally I prefer to do my own stuff on my vehicles but I'm not that familiar with the 330i like I am the Jeep. I'm not very good with diagnostic stuff. And I really don't want to waste the time right now. Any spare time is pretty much going to work on the shed.

I have a bend rear axle shaft on the Jeep that needs replacement but that might need to wait for several weeks, maybe a month or so. Just no time right now.

So. . . $885 for the work . . . it at least gets it done now instead of me farting around with it for a long time.

[Nick M3]

You probably don't want me to describe the procedure, then...

[Terry Kennedy]

As for the rest I'm not too familiar with what all is involved on with replacing the fuel pump on a 330i. But if it's an in-tank unit like on my Jeep then I can image it'd be a minor PITA, or at least somewhat time consuming.
If it's an E46 CARB car, the whole thing is "lifetime" sealed and you have to throw the tank out and purchase a new one with a new set of lifetime goodies in it.

I assume that the E90's, etc. continue this tradition of stupidity.

To give you an idea what we're talking about:

16-11-6-763-569 Fuel system - Fuel supply - Fuel tank / Fuel tank, 325i, ci, 330i, ci, w/sulev 2004 - Core $0.00 MSRP $6,471.83.

[clyde]

@clyde--sure. Let me know when your doing it. I mean, he's only got one kid and is married to an attorney--how big a problem could my incompetence cause?

You are perfectly competent at heckling and that will be our primary focus.