View Full Version : Of course I would have the low BT volume problem
stuka
06-18-2010, 08:11 PM
Got everything installed, BT pairs fine, can call out and receive fine, but the volume is fixed and cannot be raised, so anything faster than about 40mph I can't hear shit.
Tried the secret menu GAL and TP settings which made no difference.
On the M5 board there are guys with 03's and M audio with my problem and no solution other than that 45 dollar volume booster amp that ELK sells.
It just sure seems like something aint right. I should be able to control the volume, but I can't. I just don't know if it's the ULF or my phone.
If you figure this out, please let me know.
stuka
06-18-2010, 08:59 PM
This guy might be onto something.
I think I'll pay my guy to troubleshoot this.
It wouldn't surprise me if the factory jacked it up. My BT antenna was all the way crammed in the wheel well.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5136785&postcount=6
Interesting... I never had much of a problem with volume on my E39...
I did have the bad mic though... Never got around to upgrading it to the newer part. I had people complain on about 10% of calls...
Terry Kennedy
06-19-2010, 03:19 AM
It wouldn't surprise me if the factory jacked it up. My BT antenna was all the way crammed in the wheel well.
That's not your Bluetooth antenna :D
The purple FAKRA connector coming out of the eject box (in your setup) or mounted under the rear ashtray (in the older pairing-button-only setup) is what connects the Bluetooth part of the phone to the car. So it is right next to the phone. Besides, I can leave my phone in the house, get in the car and make a call, and have the call stay up until when I'm out of the driveway, so it has good range. And Bluetooth is a digital signal, so low volume can't be caused by it.
The car does not do anything with the cellular signals (the non-Bluetooth part, used for carrying calls to the cell tower) - that's only in the phone. The "shark fin" (or "porpoise penis" on some BMWs) isn't used with the Bluetooth kit - that's only for the CPTxxxx series phones and BMW Assist.
Anything in the back with a FAKRA connector (except the purple one which you hopefully plugged into the new ULF) is for something else.
If you post what color the FAKRA connector in your wheel well is, I'll look it up and tell you what it is really for.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5136785&postcount=6
I wouldn't put it past BMW to screw up the wiring - there were 3 screwups in the wiring (that I know of) on my wagon:
1) Auto-dimming mirror sensor was cross-wired to CPT8000 phone emergency signal - whenever someone behind me flashed their headlights or hit a pothole, my car would call BMW and tell them my airbags went off.
2) The Aux In pre-wire had 2 pins swapped in the connector, and wouldn't detect the Aux In when it was installed.
3) The glovebox flashlight charger socket only had power when the interior lights were on, like when a door was open.
This is because BMW (at least in that timeframe) made a custom wiring harness for each car and did no automated testing. If they drove it off the line and things like the horn blowing when they stepped on the brakes didn't happen, it passed. The reason for this was never explained - my guess is they did it so if a customer didn't order the "Pre-wired for X" feature, it made it incredibly expensive to order X later. Replacement wiring harnesses contain all of the options - it is only the ones they put in cars being built that are crippled (this is because they don't want a bazillion different order codes for the replacement harness depending on options).
FWIW, the volume knob on my NAV display adjusts the cell phone volume, but only when you're on a call. The rest of the time, it controls the stereo volume. That's in a MY2003 (09/2002 build), so should be similar to yours.
stuka
06-19-2010, 03:32 AM
FWIW, the volume knob on my NAV display adjusts the cell phone volume, but only when you're on a call. The rest of the time, it controls the stereo volume. That's in a MY2003 (09/2002 build), so should be similar to yours.
Right, it works when I am on a call. But it goes from not very loud to can't hear shit. So the volume works, but there has to be something eletrical wrong with it for this to not work right.
It's like the guy said in the link that the signal is not properly handed off to the DSP for amplification. I am going to double check that I only get one speaker carrying the sound tomorrow, which should confirm that it is a signal/wiring issue from the factory, as the fest guy said.
Terry Kennedy
06-19-2010, 03:55 AM
Right, it works when I am on a call. But it goes from not very loud to can't hear shit. So the volume works, but there has to be something eletrical wrong with it for this to not work right.
It's like the guy said in the link that the signal is not properly handed off to the DSP for amplification. I am going to double check that I only get one speaker carrying the sound tomorrow, which should confirm that it is a signal/wiring issue from the factory, as the fest guy said.
My car doesn't have DSP, being a 3-series.
Here's some info from the WDS ("Top HiFi" is what BMW called DSP internally):
Speed-dependent volume is not increased
Cause: Top HiFi System fitted
Radios concerned: All E38 and E39 radios with Top HiFi System.
Note: In conjunction with the Top HiFi System, only one characteristic curve is permanently stored in the Top HiFi amplifier. The different GAL stages in the radio are not in operation.
--------
Inputs and outputs
•AF input telephone: The telephone input only controls the front low-range output stages.
•Control input telephone: Via the control line, the DSP amplifier detects whether the telephone function is active. OFF=0..6V, ON=7..Ubatt.
I'm attaching the schematic diagram for the audio system and the connector pinouts on the DSP amp (which includes the phone signals)
That's not your Bluetooth antenna :D
The purple FAKRA connector coming out of the eject box (in your setup) or mounted under the rear ashtray (in the older pairing-button-only setup) is what connects the Bluetooth part of the phone to the car.
The E39 eject box setup works the same way and the BT antenna is under the center console too.
The car does not do anything with the cellular signals (the non-Bluetooth part, used for carrying calls to the cell tower) - that's only in the phone. The "shark fin" (or "porpoise penis" on some BMWs) isn't used with the Bluetooth kit - that's only for the CPTxxxx series phones and BMW Assist.
For FYI, the E39 eject box BT kit also has a connection to the cellular antenna (pre shark fin though). But its only used if the actual eject box for a particular phone supports an antenna out -- I think BMW only made a couple eject boxes for phones that had this feature, and most phones no longer have external antenna jacks on them... The generic tray that comes with the standard BT kit for the E39 does not have any connectors -- but there were some inserts that did.
]
Anything in the back with a FAKRA connector (except the purple one which you hopefully plugged into the new ULF) is for something else.
E39s also require a part called an "SES Jumper Plug" that goes up in the wheel well. I'm wondering if Stuka didn't get the Fakra connector closed right on this, or if there's a problem with the plug. FWIW, my E39 came with a jumper plug installed at the factory that looked different than the jumper plug in the install kit. I tried both parts and didn't notice a difference.
FWIW, the volume knob on my NAV display adjusts the cell phone volume, but only when you're on a call. The rest of the time, it controls the stereo volume. That's in a MY2003 (09/2002 build), so should be similar to yours.
Yep -- '03 E39s work the same...
It's like the guy said in the link that the signal is not properly handed off to the DSP for amplification. I am going to double check that I only get one speaker carrying the sound tomorrow, which should confirm that it is a signal/wiring issue from the factory, as the fest guy said.
I looked at his post... He seems to be mentioning the Jumper Plug. Might also be worth checking that plug to be sure its installed right, or buying another (I think they cost $12, at least that was the price in '05) and trying that just in case you had a bad plug.
Terry Kennedy
06-19-2010, 06:57 AM
For FYI, the E39 eject box BT kit also has a connection to the cellular antenna (pre shark fin though). But its only used if the actual eject box for a particular phone supports an antenna out -- I think BMW only made a couple eject boxes for phones that had this feature, and most phones no longer have external antenna jacks on them... The generic tray that comes with the standard BT kit for the E39 does not have any connectors -- but there were some inserts that did.
Stuka posted pictures of his eject box in one of the earlier threads, so I knew he didn't have the insert that handles the antenna. You're correct in that there were only a few inserts that had it - mostly for European phones that had a US counterpart (rather unusual). BMW only did that for a short time, as the original version of the kit didn't have any eject box, just the pairing button. Later cars got the generic eject box.
E39s also require a part called an "SES Jumper Plug" that goes up in the wheel well. I'm wondering if Stuka didn't get the Fakra connector closed right on this, or if there's a problem with the plug. FWIW, my E39 came with a jumper plug installed at the factory that looked different than the jumper plug in the install kit. I tried both parts and didn't notice a difference.
Same on the E46. But the SES jumper is a big connector (56-pin, I think) and doesn't have a FAKRA connector in there. PDF (http://www.amphenolrf.com/products/AssemblyInstructions/FAKRAMechanicalColorCoding.pdf) of all FAKRA variants.
The SES jumper is because the Bluetooth ULF handles the voice recognition function. On pre-factory-Bluetooth cars, there was a separate voice recognition module which had commands for the navigation system and the phone, and you could have any combo. It was possible to have the CPT8000 with no voice recognition, or NAV w/ voice recognition without a phone.
I wouldn't expect a missing SES jumper to result in weak audio - it either won't affect it at all or there won't be any audio.
If you figure this out, please let me know.
Ditto. I mentioned this in an earlier TD thread and glad to see it's a common issue.
stuka
06-19-2010, 11:14 PM
E39s also require a part called an "SES Jumper Plug" that goes up in the wheel well. I'm wondering if Stuka didn't get the Fakra connector closed right on this, or if there's a problem with the plug. FWIW, my E39 came with a jumper plug installed at the factory that looked different than the jumper plug in the install kit. I tried both parts and didn't notice a difference.
My car did come with an SES jumper, but I bought one anyway and as part of the troubleshooting, I replaced it.
Made no difference.
I am going to pay them to trace all these wires and make sure that they are correct.
stuka
06-19-2010, 11:16 PM
Ditto. I mentioned this in an earlier TD thread and glad to see it's a common issue.
There is an ugly hack fix with that ELK amp for BT, but I am not going to go down that road until I confirm that there is nothing wrong with my wiring.
The problem is basically that the signal is not getting amplified.
stuka
06-19-2010, 11:18 PM
I looked at his post... He seems to be mentioning the Jumper Plug. Might also be worth checking that plug to be sure its installed right, or buying another (I think they cost $12, at least that was the price in '05) and trying that just in case you had a bad plug.
The SES plug can only go in one way.
It could be that both plugs are bad, but a VM would confirm.
stuka
06-19-2010, 11:20 PM
I wouldn't expect a missing SES jumper to result in weak audio - it either won't affect it at all or there won't be any audio.
The point I took from that guy's post was that wrong wiring from the factory could result in the signal not getting handed off to the DSP for proper amplification.
That has to be the case because when I changed the TP and GAL, the BT volume still is very quiet.
Just curious... What is the production month of your E39?
I think mine was Nov or Dec '02 (original delivery was Feb '03 and I bought it in late Feb '05).
BT was a new option for the '03s, and I heard some horror stories of early production '03s having problems... If yours was produced earlier than mine -- that might be the case of yours...
stuka
06-20-2010, 01:18 AM
Just curious... What is the production month of your E39?
I think mine was Nov or Dec '02 (original delivery was Feb '03 and I bought it in late Feb '05).
BT was a new option for the '03s, and I heard some horror stories of early production '03s having problems... If yours was produced earlier than mine -- that might be the case of yours...
It arrived at port on 5/29/03, so it's not an early 03.
With all the talk about this issue I stopped by the stealer today and discussed it with a service dept rep. He told me they have dealt witness this exact issue before. I made an appt for the 28th. I'll let you know what happens.
SARAFIL
06-20-2010, 08:59 AM
With all the talk about this issue I stopped by the dealer today and discussed it with a service dept rep. He told me they have dealt witness this exact issue before. I made an appt for the 28th. I'll let you know what happens.
corrected.
corrected.
Lol. Being out of factory warranty I have a very good local independent shop I use (West Bay Bavarian) that I think does better work and cares more about my car then my local dealer.
There are some items they are just not equipped to handle and this is one of them.
stuka
06-22-2010, 04:56 PM
So I went to my mechanics today, and we looked over my install of the BT, and everything does indeed look fine, and I have also confirmed a few things:
1. Both front speakers to have sound.
2. It's not my Droid. His iPhone 3G is also not very loud when paired.
3. The volume control DOES work, it just goes from not so loud to can't hear shit.
4. According to the BMW insturction for cars WITH prewired for phone, you DO need to code it, here are the instructions:
Connect the car to GT1
Turn on ignition
Select Coding ZCS
Series: E39 series
Path: 2 Retrofit
System: ULF Universal Charging and Handsfree facility
Follow the on screen request to activate the coding procedures
Just my luck, my mechanic's GT1 took a dump, so I am trying to use another mechanic who has autologic to see if I can get this done tomorrow.
So it looks like maybe the problem is that Gen 13 ULF needs coding.
Terry Kennedy
06-22-2010, 07:59 PM
4. According to the BMW insturction for cars WITH prewired for phone, you DO need to code it, here are the instructions:
At least for cars w/ out DSP, there is no need to code it - the only thing coding it does is change the random device identifier that the ULF sends out to "BMW<last-five-of-your-VIN>".
I never had my car coded -- even though the instructions said you needed to (although I had an older ULF -- gen 8 I think).
Everything worked on my except voice controls, which I really didn't care too much about.
So it looks like maybe the problem is that Gen 13 ULF needs coding.
I was told this needed to happen by the dealer as well. Crossing my fingers for my appt Monday.
stuka
06-23-2010, 11:31 PM
I was told this needed to happen by the dealer as well. Crossing my fingers for my appt Monday.
Coding it made no difference, as Terry suspected.
So unless your dealer has some other trick up his sleeves, don't waste your money.
I am not going to buy the MediaBridge, since it apparently isn't THAT integrated with the car and needs its own mic and cannot use the one in the car.
I guess I am buying that ELK amp, sigh.
http://www.bimmernav.com/amp.html
Coding it made no difference, as Terry suspected.
So unless your dealer has some other trick up his sleeves, don't waste your money.
I am not going to buy the MediaBridge, since it apparently isn't THAT integrated with the car and needs its own mic and cannot use the one in the car.
I guess I am buying that ELK amp, sigh.
http://www.bimmernav.com/amp.html
Well they said they were very familiar with the volume issue after I stated what car, what options and what gen ULF. I am going to trust them and see what happens.
stuka
06-24-2010, 12:52 AM
Well they said they were very familiar with the volume issue after I stated what car, what options and what gen ULF. I am going to trust them and see what happens.
Keep us updated, I would love to know what the actual problem is, since coding it didn't do anything.
Which dealer is this? I called a few dealers in LA and they were like "what's an ULF?" No joke.
in the mean time, I ordered the ELK, since you can install it without cutting wires.
Keep us updated, I would love to know what the actual problem is, since coding it didn't do anything.
Which dealer is this? I called a few dealers in LA and they were like "what's an ULF?" No joke.
in the mean time, I ordered the ELK, since you can install it without cutting wires.
I'll let you know Monday after I get it back. They could be full of it but the first two questions from them were:
What gen ULF and who coded it for you after install. Shrugs.
stuka
06-24-2010, 01:14 AM
I'll let you know Monday after I get it back. They could be full of it but the first two questions from them were:
What gen ULF and who coded it for you after install. Shrugs.
Sounds like your dealer has it together, unlike the ones down here.
GT International coded my Gen 13 ULF and also programmed my locks.
They were the one who inspected that jacked up M5 that you were looking to buy.
Just dropped it off at the dealer. I'll let you know the outcome tonight.
Ok the volume is better and the static is not as bad as it was. What I did gain from coding was the addition of the steering wheel control and phone book access. Not there before it was coded for the car.
Still not perfect but paired with my iP4 just fine and it's usable.
stuka
06-29-2010, 01:09 AM
Ok the volume is better and the static is not as bad as it was. What I did gain from coding was the addition of the steering wheel control and phone book access. Not there before it was coded for the car.
Still not perfect but paired with my iP4 just fine and it's usable.
I'll keep you posted on the ELK amp once I got my driver side no sound problem fixed.
I'll keep you posted on the ELK amp once I got my driver side no sound problem fixed.
Please do. Thanks.
stuka
07-14-2010, 04:22 AM
Please do. Thanks.
Doing the ELk tomorrow.
From this guy AMP on m5board, all you need to do is find the 4 wires from the SES jumped connector, remove the wires from the connector, then connect them directly to the ELK, no cutting, no soldering.
I don't have the diagram, but my mechanic has the BMW system thingie, so I am sure we can find out which 2 are the input and which 2 are the speakers.
Coming together now...
Cool I'll wait to hear the outcome.
stuka
07-16-2010, 12:14 AM
Cool I'll wait to hear the outcome.
Works awesome, and no wire cutting required.
I will try to post pictures.
Very easy job.
Works awesome, and no wire cutting required.
I will try to post pictures.
Very easy job.
Please send details and document every thing. Very good to hear!
stuka
07-16-2010, 03:33 AM
Please send details and document every thing. Very good to hear!
I'll try to download pictures tomorrow.
If you know how to remove wires from the connector, the hardest part is going to be that. Once it comes out, you just plug it into the AMP and screw the wires down.
I only have mine turned at about 25%, that's all you need. If you try to do like 70% like I did, it'll get loud, but you'll also get static, because it's not supposed to be amp'ed that much.
At 25% it's plenty loud at regular highway speed.
I'll try to download pictures tomorrow.
If you know how to remove wires from the connector, the hardest part is going to be that. Once it comes out, you just plug it into the AMP and screw the wires down.
I only have mine turned at about 25%, that's all you need. If you try to do like 70% like I did, it'll get loud, but you'll also get static, because it's not supposed to be amp'ed that much.
At 25% it's plenty loud at regular highway speed.
Awesome news Stuka. Can you send me the part number and where you got it. Thanks again.
stuka
07-21-2010, 02:43 AM
OK, here it is...
I worked with my mechanic and we took the 4 wires out of the plug where the SES jumper plugs into, and connected them into the ELK AMP as shown.
The connections are:
PIN 25 (-) and PIN 26 (+) are the outputs from the ULF (go to ELK input)
PIN 12 (-) and PIN 13 (+) are the inputs to the radio module (go to ELK output)
The above was provided by AMP from m5board.
Then, refer to the bimmernav instruction for tapping power from the compensator.
http://www.bimmernav.com/amp.html
This non-destructive way of doing things means that if ever BMW came out with a firmware fix for the GEN13 ULF, I can put all the wires back and remove the ELK AMP. But for now, it works great and doesn't cause any permanent wiring change.
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