5000 mile M5 versus 35000 mile M5

[stuka]

So, the two top contenders have been located.

Both very promising.

The 5000 mile one is supposedly owned by some guy who has lots of cars. He supposedly drives it in the summer only, drained the fuel completely last year, does annual oil change, and starts the car and get it up to operating temperature once every 2 months.

The 35K mile car sounds well cared for as well. Both carfax came back clean. But I have not run equifax yet.

Warranty Direct does not care what year of mile your M5 has more or less, as long as it's 01 to 03, for up to 50K miles, the quote always came back 3500 bucks for top of the line warranty plan that covers everything.

The 2000 bucks clerabra is a sunk cost for either, as is the 3500 bucks warranty.

I just don't know if the rubber seals are completely dead by now on the 5000 mile car. From the pictures, it looks like the expansion tank is still super clear, which means it has not had many heat cycles.

And I can't believe the used car financing is 4.5% from Capital One!

Is the 5000 mile M5 just trouble even with the warranty? I am wondering if I drive it 3 times a week a least will I be able to get the car to manifest any rubber issues?

And then I probably will have to breakin the car as if it was brand new just to be sure.

[RMR]

So, the two top contenders have been located.

Both very promising.

The 5000 mile one is supposedly owned by some guy who has lots of cars. He supposedly drives it in the summer only, drained the fuel completely last year, does annual oil change, and starts the car and get it up to operating temperature once every 2 months.

The 35K mile car sounds well cared for as well. Both carfax came back clean. But I have not run equifax yet.

Warranty Direct does not care what year of mile your M5 has more or less, as long as it's 01 to 03, for up to 50K miles, the quote always came back 3500 bucks for top of the line warranty plan that covers everything.

The 2000 bucks clerabra is a sunk cost for either, as is the 3500 bucks warranty.

I just don't know if the rubber seals are completely dead by now on the 5000 mile car. From the pictures, it looks like the expansion tank is still super clear, which means it has not had many heat cycles.

And I can't believe the used car financing is 4.5% from Capital One!

Is the 5000 mile M5 just trouble even with the warranty? I am wondering if I drive it 3 times a week a least will I be able to get the car to manifest any rubber issues?

And then I probably will have to breakin the car as if it was brand new just to be sure.

Good luck. I personally would go for the 35k mile car. My father put about 8000 miles on a 1988 560SL between '88 and '95 and the seals and rubber were a disaster even with him driving it a few times a month to work and back. He had to dump money into it just to get it up to par to sell it in the late 90s.

Check out Chase also. Their used car finance rates are around 4.5%. (at least it was a few weeks ago)

[stuka]

Good luck. I personally would go for the 35k mile car. My father put about 8000 miles on a 1988 560SL between '88 and '95 and the seals and rubber were a disaster even with him driving it a few times a month to work and back. He had to dump money into it just to get it up to par to sell it in the late 90s.

Check out Chase also. Their used car finance rates are around 4.5%. (at least it was a few weeks ago)

Trust me, I normally would not consider this at all.

To me, a 2003 car should have 35K mile.

But damn if this 5K mile car doesn't give me pause. The 5K mile car is Imola, the 35K mile is Sterling.

Both have black interior, but the Imola looks so damn good.

[stuka]

Manheim numbers courtesy of this guy I know from another forum.


03/24/10 MILWAUKE Regular $20,000 75,849 Avg GRAY 8G 6 Yes
03/19/10 MANHEIM Regular $19,300 76,730 Avg BLACK 8G 6 Yes
02/23/10 STATESVL Regular $22,000 34,546 Above SILVER 8G 6 No
02/23/10 FAAO Lease $19,200 71,075 Avg JET BLAC 8G 6 Yes
11/25/09 BAY CITI Regular $16,300 72,562 Below IMOLARED 8G 6 Yes
10/30/09 MANHEIM Lease $18,600 75,687 Avg BLUE 8G 6 Yes

[JST]

An Imola M5? That's worth a lot--you don't see many of those, especially not without the red interior. That's the one that I'd go for, all else equal.

And on a car with 5K miles? I might self-insure; I assume that seals and so forth won't be covered by the warranty anyway, right?

[stuka]

An Imola M5? That's worth a lot--you don't see many of those, especially not without the red interior. That's the one that I'd go for, all else equal.

And on a car with 5K miles? I might self-insure; I assume that seals and so forth won't be covered by the warranty anyway, right?

Don't know, I am having my inhouse counsel reviewing the terms of the warranty, will report back.

Damn that Imola looks so hot, and the 4.5% isn't helping either. Oh, and my neighbor is lending me his garage space too.

Seems like planets are aligned...

[JST]

Don't know, I am having my inhouse counsel reviewing the terms of the warranty, will report back.

Damn that Imola looks so hot, and the 4.5% isn't helping either. Oh, and my neighbor is lending me his garage space too.

Seems like planets are aligned...

You might do better than 4.5; I got 3.9 through BofA last month. Not that the difference is that large.

[Nick M3]

Get the Imola car. 5k is fine with today's rubber.

[John V]

Why the hell would he drain the fuel tank?

[equ]

Wow, good luck.. I'd have a preference for the 35k mile car, but there are other condition/color/price etc factors that I am not aware of.

I missed the thread where you got back to the e39m5 idea. I thought you were considering e34m5 vs. e90m3.

[stuka]

Get the Imola car. 5k is fine with today's rubber.

I just fired of an email asking him about coolant, brake fluid, powersteering fluid, tranny fluid, etc. My guess is that they are probably original, and need to be replaced.

[stuka]

Wow, good luck.. I'd have a preference for the 35k mile car, but there are other condition/color/price etc factors that I am not aware of.

I missed the thread where you got back to the e39m5 idea. I thought you were considering e34m5 vs. e90m3.

Paint work, and the fact that I will have to shell out:

5K for preventive maintenance as soon as I buy the car

2K for Euro ellipsoid lights with Xenon bulbs

2K for clearbra

2k for Indash flip up NAV, BT, etc

I am really actually fine with the expenses above, but I have yet to come across any M5 with decent paint and bodywork condition to justify sinking 11K.

If for some miracle an Euro 3.8 6 speed late production 95 M5 with EWS pops up with no paintwork, I would jump on it, so it is not entirely out of running. But realistically, I have a better chance of buying a prestine M5, slap on the clearbra, buy a warranty, and call it a day.

Lastly, the S38 is a lot more maintenance extensive, many needed to be rebuild by 150K. There are many 150 to 200K E39 M5's with zero engine work, from what I can gather on m5board.

[SARAFIL]

What is the price premium for the 5k car?

Imola sounds amazing, and the car will always have 30k less miles on the odometer.... which will make it that much more attractive if you ever decide to sell.

If the car has been regularly driven and properly stored, I wouldn't worry too much. My only concern would be how much extra I'd have to pay to get the ultra-low mile car over the low-mile car.

[stuka]

What is the price premium for the 5k car?

Imola sounds amazing, and the car will always have 30k less miles on the odometer.... which will make it that much more attractive if you ever decide to sell.

If the car has been regularly driven and properly stored, I wouldn't worry too much. My only concern would be how much extra I'd have to pay to get the ultra-low mile car over the low-mile car.

He's asking 45K. I checked Manheim and Nada and I think high 30's is fair, but am not opposed to pay up to 40K.

The 35k mile cars are going for about 30, or high 20's if you really grind them.

[clyde]

He's asking 45K. I checked Manheim and Nada and I think high 30's is fair, but am not opposed to pay up to 40K.

The 35k mile cars are going for about 30, or high 20's if you really grind them.

I am confused. You are suggesting that the the 5k mile car is worth a 35% premium over a 35k mile car?

:wtf:

Yeah, 5k miles is pretty low, but it's not so low that its some super low mile thing that now has to live the life of a garage queen that can only visit other places by way of a trailer.

As you point out, you're possibly taking on more risk/expense with the lower mileage car...and you think it's worth paying such a (relative) huge amount for the privilege?

You're buying this car to drive it, correct? If so, I could see spending maybe $1-1.5k more for the 5k mile car. Anything more, and you're just paying because spending money makes you feel good. There just really isn't a meaningful difference between 5k and 35k miles on a 7 year old car.

[wdc330i]

Ah. But I'd spend $5,000 to get Imola. Maybe. Amazing on an E39. And it will delight anew everytime you see it.

[SARAFIL]

I am confused. You are suggesting that the the 5k mile car is worth a 35% premium over a 35k mile car?

:wtf:

Yeah, 5k miles is pretty low, but it's not so low that its some super low mile thing that now has to live the life of a garage queen that can only visit other places by way of a trailer.

As you point out, you're possibly taking on more risk/expense with the lower mileage car...and you think it's worth paying such a (relative) huge amount for the privilege?

You're buying this car to drive it, correct? If so, I could see spending maybe $1-1.5k more for the 5k mile car. Anything more, and you're just paying because spending money makes you feel good. There just really isn't a meaningful difference between 5k and 35k miles on a 7 year old car.

+1

In light of this information, I'd say pass on the 5k car. As much as I love Imola Red, I could not justify that price premium. The 35k miles on the other car is already very low for a 2003 model anyways.

Of course, if you don't mind spending an extra $10k to get the red car (that you admit might need some more investment if it has issues from sitting too much) then go for it!

[Josh (PA)]

Paying $45k for an E39 is insane in today's market. $30k for the Sterling one sounds about right if it is pristine. Personally, I think Sterling looks fabulous on the M5 (especially with Caramel ;) ).

[equ]

The 5k car is riskier in that it really hasn't had a chance for minor stuff being 'worked out' via warranty... I'd stay away (unless you want to continue keeping it a very low mileage museum piece), perhaps you should just wait for another Imola (the bestest red!, I miss mine).

[Josh (PA)]

I assume you saw the Chiaretto / Caramel one for sale on m5board? I personally think this red works better on the M5 than Imola (I am sure I am in the minority on that opinion). Most major repairs (clutch, valve cover gaskets, etc) complete. Looks great to me:
http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/sale-wanted/151254-2003-e39-m5-59k-sale.html

http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachments/sale-wanted/98238d1264972445t-2003-e39-m5-59k-sale-dsc_0069.jpg (http://www.m5board.com/vbulletin/attachments/sale-wanted/98238d1264972445-2003-e39-m5-59k-sale-dsc_0069.jpg)

[stuka]

Yeah I did, but for red on the E39, it's Imola for me.

[SARAFIL]

Yeah I did, but for red on the E39, it's Imola for me.

Is it worth a $10k+ premium over the Sterling car? Only you can tell... but I don't think you seem like the type of person that wants to win the record for most expensive E39 M5 purchased this year. :dunno: And its likely that the current owner thinks he has something special and isn't going to drop the price $10k to make it attractive.

[stuka]

Is it worth a $10k+ premium over the Sterling car? Only you can tell... but I don't think you seem like the type of person that wants to win the record for most expensive E39 M5 purchased this year. :dunno: And its likely that the current owner thinks he has something special and isn't going to drop the price $10k to make it attractive.

I think if the car wasn't Imola I probably would have passed.

It looks like the Sterling might have been sold, I have to track that guy down...

[clyde]

but I don't think you seem like the type of person that wants to win the record for most expensive E39 M5 purchased this year. :dunno:

Eh, I think he'd wear it like a badge of honor, but don't think it matters to him one way or the other.

And its likely that the current owner thinks he has something special and...

...so does stuka. Isn't that how "value" is established between a seller and a buyer?

[stuka]

Eh, I think he'd wear it like a badge of honor, but don't think it matters to him one way or the other.

Well, money is money. At this point I think I am going to email him back and offer him 36. I was able to get some manheim numbers, and it seems like 03's with 30K miles are in the low 30's very high 20's. And if he doesn't take 36, I'll just keep looking. We don't need the car right away, just need to make it before the 03 financing cutoff before the end of the year. Seems most big banks have a 7 year rule for financing used cars.

...so does stuka. Isn't that how "value" is established between a seller and a buyer?

:lol::lol:

Yeah, if it was like a Carbon Black M5 with 5K miles, I probably would not have given it a second thought.

[lemming]

Well, money is money. At this point I think I am going to email him back and offer him 36. I was able to get some manheim numbers, and it seems like 03's with 30K miles are in the low 30's very high 20's. And if he doesn't take 36, I'll just keep looking. We don't need the car right away, just need to make it before the 03 financing cutoff before the end of the year. Seems most big banks have a 7 year rule for financing used cars.



:lol::lol:

Yeah, if it was like a Carbon Black M5 with 5K miles, I probably would not have given it a second thought.

hey man.

clutch.

you set aside money for that, right?

:)

knowing the weakpoint is good, though.

i'm actually surprised, but happy for you, if you go through with this purchase.

[SARAFIL]

hey man.

clutch.

you set aside money for that, right?

:)

knowing the weakpoint is good, though.

i'm actually surprised, but happy for you, if you go through with this purchase.


is this the car?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-M5-Imola-red-ONLY-4108-MILES-like-NEW_W0QQitemZ190383706449QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Car s_Trucks?hash=item2c53c0d151#ht_500wt_1182

I just saw the link on Bimmerfest, and hts made a comment "of course someone like stuka might end up buying it". :lol:

The car is obviously "all there" and looks absolutely amazing. I just still can't get over the $45k price though. And the fact that it has only had 600 miles in the past 4-5 years is a bit scary.

[lemming]

is this the car?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2003-M5-Imola-red-ONLY-4108-MILES-like-NEW_W0QQitemZ190383706449QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Car s_Trucks?hash=item2c53c0d151#ht_500wt_1182

I just saw the link on Bimmerfest, and hts made a comment "of course someone like stuka might end up buying it". :lol:

The car is obviously "all there" and looks absolutely amazing. I just still can't get over the $45k price though. And the fact that it has only had 600 miles in the past 4-5 years is a bit scary.

1. never invade russia in winter
2. never start a landwar in asia.
3. never buy a car from someone named "ffreddy"
4. if possible....avoid non-rack and pinion steering BMWs.....

;)

:stickpoke:stuka

[TD]

That just seems like a hell of a lot of money for a car that old.

Edit- iPhone typo fixed

[lemming]

That just sems like a hell of a lot of money for a car that old.

is that some odd metaphor for Medicare?

:line:

there's always someone willing to pay that kind of money for a car like this. i'd just be hypercritical about this particular car, given the price premium. if your DD is an e30, it'll drive well. if your DD is a modern car, this car might feel odd and a little peaky.

[JST]

Only 600 miles in 5 years? Did the guy use it as a golf cart?

I'd pass.

[lip277]

It may be a fair bit of $$ for an 'old' car - but.....

If it were me in a similar situation - I'd not have a problem doing so.
Granted - I have a pretty thick skin for what 'old' means... After all - I have three cars in my garage that are either over or pushing 40 years of age.
But my point is...
Old is relative these days... Cars just last longer. Values (can) last longer as well in that mindset. The E39 M5 is/was the last of the 'real' M sedans in my mind.
That being said - I believe that car also holds its value a bit more than a more current M5 because there is a group of folks that will put their money where their mouth is... Like Stuka and (maybe) me....

I had the same thing happen when I sold my Mercedes diesel. It had 270,000 miles on it. I still got over $10,000 for it (for a $33,000 list when new). That is just nuts... But there are folks out there that clamor for those old Merc diesels.
I think the same is (or can be) true here.

As to the specifics of the mileage and condition - that is a different discussion. I just wanted to bring up some other thoughts regarding treating all cars with the same mindset... or not. :D

[lemming]

It may be a fair bit of $$ for an 'old' car - but.....

If it were me in a similar situation - I'd not have a problem doing so.
Granted - I have a pretty thick skin for what 'old' means... After all - I have three cars in my garage that are either over or pushing 40 years of age.
But my point is...
Old is relative these days... Cars just last longer. Values (can) last longer as well in that mindset. The E39 M5 is/was the last of the 'real' M sedans in my mind.
That being said - I believe that car also holds its value a bit more than a more current M5 because there is a group of folks that will put their money where their mouth is... Like Stuka and (maybe) me....

I had the same thing happen when I sold my Mercedes diesel. It had 270,000 miles on it. I still got over $10,000 for it (for a $33,000 list when new). That is just nuts... But there are folks out there that clamor for those old Merc diesels.
I think the same is (or can be) true here.

As to the specifics of the mileage and condition - that is a different discussion. I just wanted to bring up some other thoughts regarding treating all cars with the same mindset... or not. :D

the problem with only 600miles in a year is that you have to trust the person allowed for, each time the engine started, things to reach ambient operating temperature to purge all of the moisture.

this engine, to the best of my recollection, also used 10w60 (?!?!?) which (if that is true) means a lot of metal/metal friction before the oil thinned out to protect the valvetrain. plus the "normal" oil consumption of this motor.

all in all, i'd want compression checks on all cylinder banks, i'd check the oil for moisture as well as contaminants, l'd look at the (rotten) exhaust system, a potentially bad o2 sensor (if the car is never warm, the rich mix at startup is deadly), etc.

normal neurotic stuff that is warranted for the $$$$.

[Theo]

Honestly I would be afraid to drive something that perfect. I am the worst if I buy a car new. I become a freak about every little mark. My car while in awesome shape has enough rock damage to the front end that I don't have a heart attack when I get stuck behind a truck.

I'd also vote for the 35k car given the price delta.

[wdc330i]

Honestly I would be afraid to drive something that perfect. I am the worst if I buy a car new. I become a freak about every little mark. My car while in awesome shape has enough rock damage to the front end that I don't have a heart attack when I get stuck behind a truck.

I'd also vote for the 35k car given the price delta.

I don't think Stuka is talking about a full price offer on the Imola...

[SARAFIL]

I don't think Stuka is talking about a full price offer on the Imola...


but how much lower than $45k do you think ffastfreddy will be willing to go for his creampuff? He fits the profile for the type of guy that is not going to move much on his price.

[lemming]

but how much lower than $45k do you think ffastfreddy will be willing to go for his creampuff? He fits the profile for the type of guy that is not going to move much on his price.

unless he's going to start missing mortgage payments.

:dunno:

at least, that's what i hope for the stuka-boy.

[FC]

You might do better than 4.5; I got 3.9 through BofA last month. Not that the difference is that large.

Damn. The best I got from BoA when I go the 987S was 6%. I wonder if one could refinance...

[JST]

Damn. The best I got from BoA when I go the 987S was 6%. I wonder if one could refinance...

Sell it to your wife?

[TD]

I'm looking at 3.59% at Navy Federal CU.

[JST]

I'm looking at 3.59% at Navy Federal CU.

That's outstanding. Both of our credit unions were in the 4.5-4.75 range.

[clyde]

I'm looking at 3.59% at Navy Federal CU.

Navy Federal's rates often seems to blow away most others for just about everything.

[FC]

Sell it to your wife?

And pay 6.25% sales tax? Nope.

[wdc330i]

And pay 6.25% sales tax? Nope.

We have some loophole in Maryland where you can give free to a family member. Not sure about a spouse, though.

[stuka]

I bid up to 38K, but I guess someone thought it was worth even more than that.

Oh well, keep on trucking. There are boatloads of very unoriginal black and silver M5's with less than 40K miles, but Sterling and red are tougher to find.

Oh and funny thing, because of how high the price was bid up to, another low mile 2003 M5 showed up, but it's blue, ugh.

[stuka]

Haha

The Sterling dude called, and the buyer backed out.

No dead pixel, PDC, no split seats (which probably means it doesn't squeak in the rear), no shades (gott retrofit it to make the mrs happy), and a very reasonable price.

Heck, I can put in the rearview camera, buy the warranty, put in the rear and side shades, clearbra it, and still come out ahead of the red one.

This could be good.

[wdc330i]

Happy Ending!

[stuka]

Happy Ending!

Arranging for PPI now, if it passes, and it passed autocheck, carfax, and paint meter test, then we might have an M5 soon!

[Theo]

Arranging for PPI now, if it passes, and it passed autocheck, carfax, and paint meter test, then we might have an M5 soon!

Wow we are racking up the E39 M5 peeps on here. Good luck Stuka.

If you do the rear shade install, let me know how that goes. I was thinking about that aswell.

You may also consider the factory Aux cable. Finally got mine installed last week and it works like a charm. At least now I can access all the songs on my iPhone.

PS - what's wrong with blue!!!!

[wdc330i]

It's backwards month here at the 'mudgeons. Is no one buying any new cars?

[Nick M3]

Why would you buy a new car at this point?

[clyde]

Why would you buy a new car at this point?
Because the only used 5.0s just aren't the same.

[Nick M3]

Because the only used 5.0s just aren't the same.
A fair point. Perhaps I should have said "why the fuck would you buy a new BMW now?"

[JST]

I'm feeling pretty good about the used Boxster so far, especially since someone on Sunday asked me if it was a 2010.

[Rob]

Hope it works out Stuka. How many years ago did I set you up with Cameron? That was one of the first you walked away from.

[stuka]

Hope it works out Stuka. How many years ago did I set you up with Cameron? That was one of the first you walked away from.

I know, seriously. Thanks for that, Cameron's a good guy.

Hopefully this one will be a good one. So far so good on autocheck, and I am getting the carfax tomorrow, and calling the PPI shop.

[Theo]

I know, seriously. Thanks for that, Cameron's a good guy.

Hopefully this one will be a good one. So far so good on autocheck, and I am getting the carfax tomorrow, and calling the PPI shop.

You and Josh will match.

[stuka]

You and Josh will match.

This one is Sterling Silver, black extended, PDC, M audio. No sunshade, and no split seats.

I think Josh has Caramel interior right?

[equ]

Sterling/caramel would be one of my top color choices on the e39 m5. I like it stealthy. I hope it works out!

[Josh (PA)]

This one is Sterling Silver, black extended, PDC, M audio. No sunshade, and no split seats.

I think Josh has Caramel interior right?

Yep, mine is Sterling/Caramel extended leather, no PDC. The no-split seats is good/bad. The rear is sculpted so if you have a very large carseat you might have trouble. My booster seat fits fine, but putting 3 kids across the back causes some bickering because the middle kid sits on the hump$ the fold down seats are flat bottomed and back.

Hope it works out for you, congrats. I think this one is a better deal all around than the red one.