reasons why I should not buy a 1999 M3 convertible with 42k miles?

[wdc330i]

Estoril blue. Allegedly great condition (I would have a mechanic do a PPI). New brakes, new tires. I would have cooling system, etc., checked.

[FC]

Are you happy with the price?

I think that is a cool car.

[SCA]

If everything checks out then I do not see why not? :)

[rumatt]

Because it's a convertible?

:)

[wdc330i]

Are you happy with the price?

I think that is a cool car.

Price is very reasonable--$14,500. It is an automatic, though. Which I don't mind--but I realize is a big wet blanket for most here. I've also learned that means it has a bit less torque than the 5-speed. Has an LSD, though.

[wdc330i]

Because it's a convertible?

:)

That's why I want it!

[John V]

If you don't know this already, you should have the rear shock towers checked for evidence of cracking and have the rear trailing arm bushing mounts checked as well. If it doesn't have them already, I guarantee it needs new shocks.

The floppy chassis makes them not so great for really sporty driving, but for cruising they are great. Estoril is a really nice color on the E36.

[wdc330i]

If you don't know this already, you should have the rear shock towers checked for evidence of cracking and have the rear trailing arm bushing mounts checked as well. If it doesn't have them already, I guarantee it needs new shocks.

The floppy chassis makes them not so great for really sporty driving, but for cruising they are great. Estoril is a really nice color on the E36.

Cruising is perfect. Thanks for the caveats. Are those expensive fixes? I am not handy, so this is all out of pocket. I'll need a good independent.

[zcasavant]

Price is very reasonable--$14,500. It is an automatic, though. Which I don't mind--but I realize is a big wet blanket for most here. I've also learned that means it has a bit less torque than the 5-speed. Has an LSD, though.

Sounds like a nice car, minus the transmission. All e36 M3s have LSD. There's at least one poster here who owned an automatic e36, maybe he'll speak up about his experience.

[wdc330i]

Sounds like a nice car, minus the transmission. All e36 M3s have LSD. There's at least one poster here who owned an automatic e36, maybe he'll speak up about his experience.

Thanks, ZC. Nice to hear from an owner. How is yours holding up?

[JST]

Price is very reasonable--$14,500. It is an automatic, though. Which I don't mind--but I realize is a big wet blanket for most here. I've also learned that means it has a bit less torque than the 5-speed. Has an LSD, though.

It also means that the dreaded missing neutral function of the transmission (which mine was just starting to suffer from at about 60k (?) miles) won't be a concern.

As JV said, check the shock tower mounts--but really, I would just count on replacing them immediately. This is actually laughably easy on the convertibles, since access to the mounts just requires putting the top halfway up. I concur on the shocks; there's no doubt at this mileage that it needs new ones. Putting Konis in was the best option 5 years ago. IIRC, it ran about $1K for the parts and installation of the fronts (I did the rears myself at TD's house, along with the shock mounts).

I'm not sure there's much to check with the cooling system--my recollection is that when the plastic neck on the radiator goes, it goes, and there isn't much in the way of warning signs that the neck is getting brittle. This is another thing that I would just replace, along with the water pump, basically as soon as I got the car (and before I took it on any sort of road trip).

How's the rear window? The plastic rear window is one of the real PITA features of the E36; it makes using it all year round difficult.

The E36 has a flexible enough chassis that by this mileage it is probably pretty squeaky; a tube of Gummipflege (which they may not make anymore) fixed that for me.

Also budget for a set of EU headlamps; I had ZKW projector lights that made a WORLD of difference over the shitbox American units.

EDIT: For suspension installation, I used ExcluService in Rockville. They were very good and reasonably priced back in the day.

[TD]

It also means that the dreaded missing neutral function of the transmission (which mine was just starting to suffer from at about 60k (?) miles) won't be a concern.

As JV said, check the shock tower mounts--but really, I would just count on replacing them immediately. This is actually laughably easy on the convertibles, since access to the mounts just requires putting the top halfway up. I concur on the shocks; there's no doubt at this mileage that it needs new ones. Putting Konis in was the best option 5 years ago. IIRC, it ran about $1K for the parts and installation of the fronts (I did the rears myself at TD's house, along with the shock mounts).

I'm not sure there's much to check with the cooling system--my recollection is that when the plastic neck on the radiator goes, it goes, and there isn't much in the way of warning signs that the neck is getting brittle. This is another thing that I would just replace, along with the water pump, basically as soon as I got the car (and before I took it on any sort of road trip).

How's the rear window? The plastic rear window is one of the real PITA features of the E36; it makes using it all year round difficult.

The E36 has a flexible enough chassis that by this mileage it is probably pretty squeaky; a tube of Gummipflege (which they may not make anymore) fixed that for me.

Also budget for a set of EU headlamps; I had ZKW projector lights that made a WORLD of difference over the shitbox American units.

EDIT: For suspension installation, I used ExcluService in Rockville. They were very good and reasonably priced back in the day.
Of course, back then I also had an E36 M3 and JST and I were doing the same mods more or less concurrently. So I'd echo the comments on the shocks, ExcluService, and the ZKW headlamps.

Honestly, I can't imagine that car without a stick and wouldn't consider it in an automatic. I'd also flinch at that price considering how old it is, but I guess it must be a fair price. For that money, though, I'd probably get something else. Like a 986 Boxster or an E46 330CiC.

[zcasavant]

Thanks, ZC. Nice to hear from an owner. How is yours holding up?

Mine's a 5spd, and is holding up pretty well. It has ~147k miles. I no longer drive it in the winter, so hopefully it'll last a while longer.

The parts have gotten expensive, though. I paid over $800 just for a wiper motor and wiper transmission a few months ago.

My transmission was replaced when I got the car in 2003, but it has started to experience the neutral issue that JST mentioned.

Overall, they are good and fun cars. Just remember that they are over 10 years old and will break from time to time.

[wdc330i]

Perfect. Three former owners chiming in. Thanks so much.

I'm with TD on preferring the e46 convertible option, but we're talking at least another $8-10k for a decent one. (And I've had three e46s, so it's a bit boring to me.)

We're looking for something we don't care about parking outside, that isn't a big initial financial hit (just the drips and drabs of repairs, admittedly). And that will hold 3+ passengers.

Rear plastic window is a huge downside. Alas, this owner had a hardtop for it, which he sold separately. But this would be a third car. So I really won't have to drive it in the wet, dark, or other nastiness.

[John V]

It's not the rear shock MOUNTS that are the problem, it's that the rear shock TOWERS (the metal unibody) that is really the issue. They can, and do, tear out. The shock mounts should definitely be replaced with the shocks and the Z3 reinforcement plates should be added. A good indie BMW mechanic will know how to check this stuff.

I just noticed it's an automatic. I would never buy a BMW (GM?) automatic, as they have a terrible reliability record. But it's a roll of the dice.

I forgot about the cooling system. All E36s and E46s are bad in this regard. The key is to get a cooling system service (water pump with the revised composite impeller at the BMW dealership, new radiator and overflow tank and new thermostat - not expensive). I would probably do it right away for peace of mind, but mine didn't go out until around 75,000 miles (the car was ten years old).

[wdc330i]

It's not the rear shock MOUNTS that are the problem, it's that the rear shock TOWERS (the metal unibody) that is really the issue. They can, and do, tear out. The shock mounts should definitely be replaced with the shocks and the Z3 reinforcement plates should be added. A good indie BMW mechanic will know how to check this stuff.

I just noticed it's an automatic. I would never buy a BMW (GM?) automatic, as they have a terrible reliability record. But it's a roll of the dice.

I forgot about the cooling system. All E36s and E46s are bad in this regard. The key is to get a cooling system service (water pump with the revised composite impeller at the BMW dealership, new radiator and overflow tank and new thermostat - not expensive). I would probably do it right away for peace of mind, but mine didn't go out until around 75,000 miles (the car was ten years old).

The transmission is ZF, FWIW. And it is low mileage--and we wouldn't add much to it.

[JST]

The transmission is ZF, FWIW. And it is low mileage--and we wouldn't add much to it.

I think the GM transmissions are actually better--it's the ZF ones that I've heard bad things about.

[Terry Kennedy]

Gummipflege (which they may not make anymore) fixed that for me.
Looks like you can still get it at Pelican Parts (http://www.pelicanparts.com/catalog/shopcart/CARE/POR_CARE_einszt_pg10.htm). If that doesn't work, the manufacturer's US web site (http://www.1z-usa.com/search.asp?keyword=gummi) lists it for $1 more than Pelican and says it is in stock.

[wdc330i]

I think the GM transmissions are actually better--it's the ZF ones that I've heard bad things about.

Hmmm.

[Nick M3]

There were no GM transmissions used in the M3s.

[equ]

There is an estoril e36M 'vert on my block. Looks gorgeous and the owner clearly loves it... I would not do auto though, the e36M's have sweet (much better than e46) shifter/clutch combos.

[Nick M3]

There is an estoril e36M 'vert on my block. Looks gorgeous and the owner clearly loves it... I would not do auto though, the e36M's have sweet (much better than e46) shifter/clutch combos.
Hey, if you get sick of it, sell it to me for cheap, and I'll fix the transmission problem. I'd love to have a convertible.

[lupinsea]

We're looking for something we don't care about parking outside, that isn't a big initial financial hit (just the drips and drabs of repairs, admittedly). And that will hold 3+ passengers.

Hey, I know the perfect vehicle. . . convertible, seats 4, available in 5 and 6 spd manuals or 3 and 4 spd automatics, some models come with LSD, usually cheap and easy to fix. No Estoril Blue but lots of other fun colors..... and you definitely won't worry about leaving out side. And at half the cost of the M3 vert.

:D

[wdc330i]

Hey, I know the perfect vehicle. . . convertible, seats 4, available in 5 and 6 spd manuals or 3 and 4 spd automatics, some models come with LSD, usually cheap and easy to fix. No Estoril Blue but lots of other fun colors..... and you definitely won't worry about leaving out side. And at half the cost of the M3 vert.

:D

LOL. With a tendency to flipover on hard turns...

[John V]

Gummipflege's equivalent can also be bought from Honda dealers or online. It's called Shin-etsu grease.

[SCA]

I just noticed it's an automatic. I would never buy a BMW (GM?) automatic, as they have a terrible reliability record. But it's a roll of the dice.

+1

[Josh (PA)]

I'd either hold out for a manual transmission or get an e46. The e46 is a better cruising convertible, more solid, more creature comforts, much nicer interior and a glass rear window. In my opinion, the e36 M3C is a far more enjoyable driver than any e46 and a much better package than an early boxster, bu to get those benefits you need a manual. If you want a sporty 4 seat convertible with excellent driving feedback and involvement I don't think you can find a better package.

Both of mine have been very reliable so far, just standard upkeep maintenance. No major problems ever.

[wdc330i]

I'd either hold out for a manual transmission or get an e46. The e46 is a better cruising convertible, more solid, more creature comforts, much nicer interior and a glass rear window. In my opinion, the e36 M3C is a far more enjoyable driver than any e46 and a much better package than an early boxster, bu to get those benefits you need a manual. If you want a sporty 4 seat convertible with excellent driving feedback and involvement I don't think you can find a better package.

Both of mine have been very reliable so far, just standard upkeep maintenance. No major problems ever.

I think you're right. Just drove it. And while it seems very cared for, it is pretty primitive in this spec. With a manual, that would feel right. As a cruiser, it just feels old. I was surprised how much lean it has in the twisties--much more than the later 3 series. And the power with auto feels pretty meh. So it has little to recommend it beyond a low price of entry. Pretty rattly and creaky and flexy.

[zcasavant]

I think you're right. Just drove it. And while it seems very cared for, it is pretty primitive in this spec. With a manual, that would feel right. As a cruiser, it just feels old. I was surprised how much lean it has in the twisties--much more than the later 3 series. And the power with auto feels pretty meh. So it has little to recommend it beyond a low price of entry. Pretty rattly and creaky and flexy.

I sort of expected this. New shocks will help with the lean, but yeah, hold out for a manual.

[TD]

There is a ridiculously clean (and expensive) one out at Autoadvantage- http://www.advantagecertified.com/inventory/view.php?inventory_id=2027

[SCA]

There is a ridiculously clean (and expensive) one out at Autoadvantage- http://www.advantagecertified.com/inventory/view.php?inventory_id=2027

Sharp car!

[FC]

There is a ridiculously clean (and expensive) one out at Autoadvantage- http://www.advantagecertified.com/inventory/view.php?inventory_id=2027

Wow. It looks new. Pricey, but that is a broderline collectible in that condition.

[Theo]

There is a ridiculously clean (and expensive) one out at Autoadvantage- http://www.advantagecertified.com/inventory/view.php?inventory_id=2027

Wow that is beautiful but I would never EVER do dove interior again EVER. PITA to take care of.

If I was to get another E36 M it would be a coupe.

[zcasavant]

That is gorgeous. If it had black interior, it'd be close to perfect.

[SCA]

I would never EVER do dove interior again EVER. PITA to take care of.


+1