E34 Euro M5 vs E90 M3

[stuka]

OK, so an Euro M5 popped up, and this one is not purple, and still has the alcantara interior. I got a few friends working on the car history for me right now to see if it's been wrecked/painted/etc.

I have sat in a few E34's, and the backseat area is much bigger than the B7 platform for sure. I mean, baby scud, at 32 pounds, is facing forward and can kick the front seats. I know with the E34 there's no way he could do that.

Now for all you newly minted and long term E90 M3 owners with kids, how is the back seat area with forward facing kids?

I know the E34 M5 is slower, older, blah blah blah, but it just for some reason really want it.

Now, the mrs, having had such a positive experience with the S4 Avant (three separate days in the shop, all for regular service), versus the E30 with its many days in the shop for regular and stuka caused visits, is thinking that the E34 would just be the same E30 experience X100, and that we really should look at the E90, especially since they are such good deals now used (or ED).

Maybe I'll be crushed tomorrow with bad news about the M5. But if not, I would probably be testing fitting baby scud in the E90 M3 to see what it's like.

[Rob]

Assuming the e90 M3 is similar to the e90 335 (safe bet?), forward facing is going to be a challenge. It's not horrible, but I sometimes have to ask both kids not to do kick when they are behind me. While Adam is large for his age, I don't think he's within an order of magnitude of that mass you call your boy. Adam is currently about 34 pounds, so they might be about the same size. Speaking of your monstrosity, you haven't posted any pictures recently.

It's not really clear what you are looking for - so much room that he can't kick the seats or so much room that he has the freedom to kick without straining or maybe enough room so that while he can kick the seats if he wants to, they are far enough away that he doesn't kick them simply b/c he wants to move?

The cheap plastic seat back covers are a must if you go this route. Then you can see all the dirt that didn't end up on the backs of your seat . . .

I know you have already figured this out, but the child car seat can make a ton of difference in this area. The sunshine kids seat will give you a five point harness that goes for as long as your kid will need the seat, but it is a much smaller seat than most of the other options, giving much more leg room. Less visibility for the kid, too, but you can't have everything. We got the sunshine seat specifically to make more leg room in the e90.

[stuka]

Assuming the e90 M3 is similar to the e90 335 (safe bet?), forward facing is going to be a challenge. It's not horrible, but I sometimes have to ask both kids not to do kick when they are behind me. While Adam is large for his age, I don't think he's within an order of magnitude of that mass you call your boy. Adam is currently about 34 pounds, so they might be about the same size. Speaking of your monstrosity, you haven't posted any pictures recently.

I have been in my friend's 335 many times when we go to lunch, and the backsetas look seriously small, just like my B7.

But Jeff's picture of his kids in the E90 M3 made me think that there somehow are lots of room.

Thanks for the reminder, I threw up a couple of recent pictures. He just turned 18 months.

It's not really clear what you are looking for - so much room that he can't kick the seats or so much room that he has the freedom to kick without straining or maybe enough room so that while he can kick the seats if he wants to, they are far enough away that he doesn't kick them simply b/c he wants to move?

The cheap plastic seat back covers are a must if you go this route. Then you can see all the dirt that didn't end up on the backs of your seat . . .

I know you have already figured this out, but the child car seat can make a ton of difference in this area. The sunshine kids seat will give you a five point harness that goes for as long as your kid will need the seat, but it is a much smaller seat than most of the other options, giving much more leg room. Less visibility for the kid, too, but you can't have everything. We got the sunshine seat specifically to make more leg room in the e90.

I think mostly just looking for a sedan. The S4 is nice, and the E30 is doable, but at some point, I think a sedan is in order. And I really don't get my own obsession with the E34 Euro M5, but I just really want it. The E34 M5's drove like the E30 to me, they felt small and very connected to the road. The E39's, not so much, and for that matter, neither does the S4. The S4 has the same E39 M5 feel when it comes to how connected you feel to the road, and while it is a small car, it doesn't drive like a small car. For some reason, the E34 and the E30 have similar driving feel, and with RWD, and similar power and less weight, the E34 M5 would feel faster than the S4.

The S4 backseat area really is kind of small, bigger than the E30 for sure, but not THAT much bigger like the E34.

So I am getting from you that the E90 has about the same room as the S4? I think I am going to show up one of these days at Phillipe's place with the sunshine kidz and see for myself.

Maybe my friends will tell me that the M5 is junk and my dreams of ever owning a cool Euro M5 will be dashed again, and back to modern cars which the mrs will be happy since there will be very little possibility of it spending large amount of time at the shop.

[John V]

Don't teh E34s have shit for brakes?

[JST]

With one kid, now about 40 lbs, we've never had trouble with the M3. She's in a Maxi Cosi Rodi booster now, and she has a good amount of legroom. Of course, she CAN kick the seat in front of her, but maybe we are just lucky--she usually stops when we tell her to.

FWIW, the M3 has different (and slightly thicker) seats than the 335.

As for maintenance, (knocking wood) the M3 has been trouble-free. I think you wife is right that the E34 is going to require more maintenance.

I mean, if it were me? I'd sell the E30, get a 335, and buy a Porsche as a third car.

[ZBB]

My daughter was forward facing for the last few weeks I had my E39 -- she was too small back then to kick the seats, but she definitely would be able to now. I'd be surprised if the E34 is bigger than the E39.

She can also kick the seats in my wife's E91 -- and the E91s have an extra 1-2 inches of rear legroom compared to E90s (the back seat is positioned slightly further back in the tourings)...

However, its not really a problem -- she really doesn't kick very often and stops when asked. We also picked up a pair of seat back covers from Babies R Us that protect the seat backs -- even though she doesn't kick, she'll stretch out and put her feet on the seat backs...

[clyde]

Don't teh E34s have shit for brakes?

Dude, he said "Euro." :rolleyes:

[equ]

e90 backseat > b6/b7 backseat
noticeably and subjectively...
In fact, for adults, I'd wager that e90 backseat > b8 backseat, though the room/kicking will be about the same.

Not sure if it is >> enough to prevent kicking though.

Oh, and between e34 M5 and e90 M3, despite aesthetics, for me it would be an easy choice depending on whether it would be a daily driver or an occasional car to be part of a collection.

[equ]

And, while no porsche or e30, the e90 M still feels connected and smaller compared to b6 s4, no doubt.

[Nick M3]

Get the E34 M5. Worst case scenario, you buy an E90 M3 later. Any loss you take on the M5 will probably be made up for by further depreciation on the M3.

E34 M5s are just plain cool.

[stuka]

Dude, he said "Euro." :rolleyes:

The Euro E34 M5's have multi piston fixed caliper brakes.

[Josh (PA)]

There is no question that the e90 is the logical choice, it is faster roomier more reliable, more convenient, etc, etc, etc. On the other hand you are the right kind of owner for a Euro E34. The love and care you put into the e30 is pretty amazing. You'd drive the e34 like it was meant to be, maintain it properly and enjoy the snot out of it.

What car would this be replacing?

The more I think it about it, the more I say get the E34.

I always wanted the E39 M5. There was no logical justification for getting it, but we had the money, the wife gave the green light and I jumped in. I couldn't be happier, not a second of buyers remorse. Of course it just came back from its first service visit with a $2900 bill for valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, new instrument cluster to replace dead pixels, 8 quarts of 10W60, brake flush, etc, etc. Happily the warranty covered $2000 of it, but M cars out of warranty are expensive. You'll go in with your eyes open to this, so as long as your wife is cool with it, go for it.

As an FYI, my son is 4, in a booster seat and about 42" tall. With the seat in my driving position about 2/3 back he can kick the seat back in the e39. I'm sure by the time your son is 4 he'll be able to kick the back of most any front seat unless you slide it all the way forward.

[FC]

My son is short for his age ~2.5yo and on a Boulevard, he easily kicks he back seat on the V70R unless it's way forward.

[SCA]

I know my son kicked the back of the passengers seat less in the E34 vs the E90. Of course, he was five when I had both.

[Biggins]

I still really want an E34 so I'm going to say go for the M5 because I think they're cool.

I don't see how you can go (too) wrong with either choice.

[stuka]

Sigh, the Euro M5 has more than a few panel repainted. But supposedly, without a paint meter I wouldn't be able to tell.

Found two U.S. ones, a 91 and a 93 with less than 80K miles. Maybe these will have better paint condition.

I feat that I might have to do a E39 M5 search Part 2 if not the E90 M3, and completely give up on the E34 simply for the fact that people just don't take very good care of them.

The 03 M5's are also impossible to find. I am even willing to entertain anything besides blue, black, and silver.

At least we did luck out on the S4 Avant and scored a rare one that is holding tough on resale. If the trend continues my manual 2008 S4 Avant is going to turn into the Eurovan in terms of resale.

[John V]

Sigh, the Euro M5 has more than a few panel repainted. But supposedly, without a paint meter I wouldn't be able to tell.

Why do you care?

[stuka]

Why do you care?

Repaint lowers the value of the car for cars that are rare.

There are less than 30 properly federalized M5 in the U.S. If I am going to sink the 2K for clearbra full wrap, and probably 5K to bring the car up to snuff, I better not take a beating on it because it's been repainted.

And, having been in the bodyshop business, repaints suck because no shop has the chemical capability of the BMW factory.

What sarafil said is true about repaint. It might not matter on a Focus, but it is the kiss of death for cars like these.

[John V]

So pay the guy a price commensurate with the fact that it's been repainted.

You're buying it to drive and enjoy, right? If it runs well and the repaint was good (BMW paint is amazingly soft anyway) and the car is good mechanically, how can you pass it up?

[TD]

Agree 100%.

A car having had paintwork does not equal to bnot having been cared for. Shit happens.

If it's a car that you plan to drive (and not have as a garage queen), paintwork should not matter at all - as long as the work was done well and it wasn't due to a serious (frame-bending) accident.

The only person losing money from a painted car being worth less than an unpainted one is the person owning it when it got damaged. You may get less when you sell it, but you paid less for it.

I really don't see a problem here.

For a used daily driver, I'd almost consider minor body/paintwork to be a plus as you can get a better deal.

[stuka]

I have had clearbras on all my cars for years now, and all my cars have had perfect paint with no chips.

The S4 was used, somebody else had put 8000 miles on it, I did the full front wrap, and a year and a half later, the paint still looks brand new.

I am going to have someone locally take a look at the Euro M5, but right now, the top contenders are one 03 M5 and one 91 M5. The 91 is a U.S. car, but it has less than 80K miles, so we'll see. Oh and that red E34 M5 in Jersey apparently was in a huge wreck.

[equ]

TOf course it just came back from its first service visit with a $2900 bill for valve cover gaskets, spark plugs, new instrument cluster to replace dead pixels, 8 quarts of 10W60, brake flush, etc, etc. Happily the warranty covered $2000 of it, but M cars out of warranty are expensive.

On my e39, out of warranty, I got bmwna to goodwill the dash cluster and I paid for the labour. I told them how many bmw's I had owned and that my 7-yr old 528i only had 53k miles. Might be too late for you.

[stuka]

There is one M5 wagon on eBay right now.

I wish the guy had not messed with it, because it otherwise sound like an incredible car. A non molested example of this car is worth close to what this guy is asking. But frankly, I don't know how it was driven once it was supercharged, and having an S38 that has been supercharged, no thanks.

When are people going to learn that mods actually decreases the value of a car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M5_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f1b82323QQitemZ300 408120099QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

[zcasavant]

There is one M5 wagon on eBay right now.

I wish the guy had not messed with it, because it otherwise sound like an incredible car. A non molested example of this car is worth close to what this guy is asking. But frankly, I don't know how it was driven once it was supercharged, and having an S38 that has been supercharged, no thanks.

When are people going to learn that mods actually decreases the value of a car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M5_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f1b82323QQitemZ300 408120099QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks

:drool:

[TD]

There is one M5 wagon on eBay right now.

I wish the guy had not messed with it, because it otherwise sound like an incredible car. A non molested example of this car is worth close to what this guy is asking. But frankly, I don't know how it was driven once it was supercharged, and having an S38 that has been supercharged, no thanks.

When are people going to learn that mods actually decreases the value of a car.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BMW-M5_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem45f1b82323QQitemZ300 408120099QQptZUSQ5fCarsQ5fTrucks
Admittedly, if that car wasn't supercharged, I'd be thinking bad thoughts.

[zcasavant]

Admittedly, if that car wasn't supercharged, I'd be thinking bad thoughts.

Just take the blower off. I'll come and help. ;)

[FC]

Meh.

[zcasavant]

Meh.

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/pumpputnam/oh_no_you_didnt.gif

[TD]

http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l130/pumpputnam/oh_no_you_didnt.gif
No kidding.

Even if you would never personally buy that car, you kind of have to drool over it. It's the quintessential 'Mudgeon-mobile.

[zcasavant]

No kidding.

Even if you would never personally buy that car, you kind of have to drool over it. It's the quintessential 'Mudgeon-mobile.

Exactly. I even like the color. :D I'd buy it, but I'm saving up for trade school.

[FC]

:lol: @ Wonder Woman.

I didn't say I didn't like it or that I don't appreciate its awesomeness. I just have no real interest in it. Kind of like a 500E, E30 M3, 500SL, or a Countach.

I didn't think this was a thread about great cars, but rather real options. This E34 is a great car I wouldn't buy.

[Josh (PA)]

stuka, I am sure you've been browsing the for sale section over at m5board, but there have been a few apparently nice e34 M5 for sale recently. You should do a classified search over there for posts sine november and see if any interest you. There are a couple of nice e39s for sale on there now too.

[bren]

I'd buy it, but I'm saving up for trade school.
:lol:

[stuka]

The low mile E34 M5 has a front end impact in 1994 that was reported.

Hopefully it's just the bumper and no sheet metal was involved. Keeping my fingers crossed.

[Sharp11]

So pay the guy a price commensurate with the fact that it's been repainted.

You're buying it to drive and enjoy, right? If it runs well and the repaint was good (BMW paint is amazingly soft anyway) and the car is good mechanically, how can you pass it up?

He should consider just repainting the whole car yellow, that way he won't need a new helmet.

[wdc330i]

The low mile E34 M5 has a front end impact in 1994 that was reported.

Hopefully it's just the bumper and no sheet metal was involved. Keeping my fingers crossed.

I guess when cars get that old, they can't avoid the inevitable forever.