Is this a crazy idea?

[TD]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=270988695

[zcasavant]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=270988695

yes

[Plaz]

It's not a crazy idea to take it for a spin.

Though a day in teen temps might not be ideal.

[TD]

It's not a crazy idea to take it for a spin.

Though a day in teen temps might not be ideal.
There is over an inch of snow on all of the roads right now (it just started and nothing has been treated yet).

Not today.

[SARAFIL]

Not sure that price is a good buy, but I'll admit I don't know the market for this car.

Herb Chambers has been running an ad in the paper "$6,500 off all Saturns" for weeks now as they try to close up shop at their last Saturn store. I just checked and they have three brand new ones from $29k-$34k MSRP. So what could you realistically get a brand new, zero-mile car for? I'd imagine that there is still a bit of room left in the $6,500 off offer, so maybe $7,500-8,000 off? or even more? I'd bet you might be able to buy something like that $29k car from a local dealer for closer to $20k than you think, if they have one left.

That of course assumes that this is a good idea, which I have no opinion on since I have never been in one.

[TD]

Not sure that price is a good buy, but I'll admit I don't know the market for this car.

Herb Chambers has been running an ad in the paper "$6,500 off all Saturns" for weeks now as they try to close up shop at their last Saturn store. I just checked and they have three brand new ones from $29k-$34k MSRP. So what could you realistically get a brand new, zero-mile car for? I'd imagine that there is still a bit of room left in the $6,500 off offer, so maybe $7,500-8,000 off? or even more? I'd bet you might be able to buy something like that $29k car from a local dealer for closer to $20k than you think, if they have one left.

That of course assumes that this is a good idea, which I have no opinion on since I have never been in one.
This particular car is the Red Line edition.

[undefined]

Yes. A used elise would be a 100x better idea.

[Mr. The Edge]

This particular car is the Red Line edition.

Being badge driven, I am honestly surprised at your even fleeting consideration of a Saturn.

[SARAFIL]

This particular car is the Red Line edition.

Oh... missed that.

I like the appeal of a newer, low mileage car... but I know I would be happier with a Boxster of earlier vintage in that price category. Or (flamesuit on) a Z4. :eeps:

Or like others have suggested, if this is a 3rd car, what is a used Elise going for these days? Now that would be fun.

[Sharp11]

There's an old saying, "don't buy the deal".

This was never a great car to begin with, do you really want to pay Mazda Miata money for one???

Ed

[Terry Kennedy]

This particular car is the Red Line edition.
I have no idea how it handles, but I do have a bunch of friends that can easily tune that engine to 500+ HP :D

[equ]

I had a solstice for a day in California, I quite liked the design, handling, feel and grip. I'm sure I've posted my views on it. Cons: impractical (top operation difficult), zero interior storage, not even room for a handbag with 2 people in the car, buzzy sound and weak response from the base engine with AT. Nice steering and brakes though.

[equ]

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showpost.php?p=252029&postcount=51

I guess I really didn't post much of a review. It was definitely fun and sporty, the low CG and good distribution were immediately apparent. Not sure how much a MT & turbo make it a boxster-competitor, but you don't lose anything from an open-minded test drive. I would certainly compare it against the 7-8 year old boxsters that you are looking at.

[John V]

An Elise may just be more practical than that car.

[Plaz]

An Elise may just be more practical than that car.

:lol: Now that's saying something! :lol:

[equ]

I doubt it... I drove the solstice from OC/Newport Beach to Venice on the I-5 and it was reasonable, I doubt an elise would have been as comfy (for my cushy a$$).

[undefined]

I drove the elise between Dallas/Houston/Austin a few times and it was fine on the highway. No big deal.

[John V]

I don't envision TD taking whatever car he ends up buying on a bunch of long trips. :dunno:

My brother and I drove his Elise from Denver to Vail (and back) for a race last summer. It was super fun for the first hour but the second hour was brutal. My ass can't take those seats for that long.

I still love the Elise and I still want one.

[equ]

My elise comment is uninformed, I've only sat in them in dealerships, so extrapolating... The sky/solstice has obviously nowhere near the performance thrill and heritage of an elise, I am just guessing that they are more comfortable and a bit more practical.

[ZBB]

A friend of mine sold his Sky Red Line last July (before the Penske purchase of Saturn was scuttled).

I think he sold his for ~$21k. He had it for a little over a year, and paid something like $24k for it.

[John V]

My elise comment is uninformed, I've only sat in them in dealerships, so extrapolating... The sky/solstice has obviously nowhere near the performance thrill and heritage of an elise, I am just guessing that they are more comfortable and a bit more practical.

I think the Elise's trunk is bigger. For our race event we managed to fit two duffel bags, two helmets, a torque wrench and some other small stuff back there in the Elise. You may be able to do that in a Sky but not if you want to put the top down.

You are right that the Sky is a lot more comfy.

[equ]

The sky had NO luggage room, really the passenger's lap... It was not hard to get in and out of though.

[Terry Kennedy]

My brother and I drove his Elise from Denver to Vail (and back) for a race last summer. It was super fun for the first hour but the second hour was brutal. My ass can't take those seats for that long.
What kind of seats does it have? The Atom has tiny Recaros (Pole Position 2) and with a few adjustments of the supplied padding (the seat's, not mine :D) I'm quite comfortable in them. I tend to get out every 150 miles or so and stretch, but part of that is due to the Atom's firm ride, not the seats.

[ZBB]

One other thing about the Sky... The top is rather fussy -- and it is definately not a Miata-like unclip-and-flip from the driver's seat affair. Instead, its nearly a 2 person job to unclip the header, then undo some clips on the back, flip the trunk back, fold the top, close the trunk.

And there is only slightly more trunk space with the top up than down.

My friend that had the Sky previously had an Elise when he lived in the UK -- and he also commented that the Elise had more trunk space (although a smaller opening).

[undefined]

What kind of seats does it have? The Atom has tiny Recaros (Pole Position 2) and with a few adjustments of the supplied padding (the seat's, not mine :D) I'm quite comfortable in them. I tend to get out every 150 miles or so and stretch, but part of that is due to the Atom's firm ride, not the seats.

http://revlimiter.net/blog/2009/04/lotus-elise-seats/

[TD]

It's really too bad I despise the Z4 and have no interest in a prior-gen TT because there are SO MANY of both listed on Autotrader with relatively low miles at prices below $20k (sometimes well below $20k).

I though to search on the Solstice and Sky after looking at a couple of ads for ugly Z4s.

The Elise idea is one I had not had, and since they all seem to still be above $30k, it's not fitting the bill at the moment either, comfortable or not.

[undefined]

What difference does the initial price really make? Cost of ownership is all that matters.

[Sharp11]

It's really too bad I despise the Z4 and have no interest in a prior-gen TT because there are SO MANY of both listed on Autotrader with relatively low miles at prices below $20k (sometimes well below $20k).

I though to search on the Solstice and Sky after looking at a couple of ads for ugly Z4s.

The Elise idea is one I had not had, and since they all seem to still be above $30k, it's not fitting the bill at the moment either, comfortable or not.

What about late generation Miatas, Z3's or S2k's?

You could also go late e46 verts with sport packages or ZHP packages.

Good Z4's are still a bit pricey, even if you could get past the styling, I wouldn't recommend anything older than an 05 3.0 with SP, or later (06 and up) 3.0si models with SP. M Roadsters are significantly more fun to drive, but they're still in the 30's .
Ed

[SARAFIL]

What difference does the initial price really make? Cost of ownership is all that matters.


That's not really true.

Many people have limits on what they can afford or what they are willing to spend for a car purchase. If TD has set his limit at <$30k or <$25k, it probably does not make sense for him right now to spend $40k or $50k even if it is for a car that will retain its value very well and have low ownership costs. Cost of ownership is very important, but you have to be able to afford and/or be comfortable with your initial purchase price.

[TD]

That's not really true.

Many people have limits on what they can afford or what they are willing to spend for a car purchase. If TD has set his limit at <$30k or <$25k, it probably does not make sense for him right now to spend $40k or $50k even if it is for a car that will retain its value very well and have low ownership costs. Cost of ownership is very important, but you have to be able to afford and/or be comfortable with your initial purchase price.
Especially when it's a third-car toy.

[wdc330i]

I'd pick a z4 over this option. I wasn't impressed much by them during test drives over the years. But then I had one as a loaner, and it was surprisingly fun, while still being pretty civilized. It could work as a daily driver. Trunk can hold at least one case of wine. :D

[SARAFIL]

I'd pick a z4 over this option. I wasn't impressed much by them during test drives over the years. But then I had one as a loaner, and it was surprisingly fun, while still being pretty civilized. It could work as a daily driver. Trunk can hold at least one case of wine. :D

I would too. ;)

[John V]

I suppose I am biased but a 986 Boxster S is just going to be more fun than a Z4, besides being much better looking.

My advice, go find the nicest early 986S you can find, get it inspected and enjoy it. If it doesn't have Xenons, have them put in, or do it yourself (not hard). Enjoy it until you get tired of it and sell it for what you paid for it. :dunno:

[Josh (PA)]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=265410163&dealer_id=1032933&car_year=2003&rdm=1264972321095&lastStartYear=1981&model=M3&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2002&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=1&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=200&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=BMW&keywords_display=&color=&scarid=274012149&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=CONVERT&drive=&default_sort=&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=22201&advanced=&end_year=2006&doors=&transmission=&max_price=25000&cardist=205&standard=false

What about one of these. More performance than anything else in TD waffle threads, plus 2 in the back for when the kids want to come along?

[TD]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=265410163&dealer_id=1032933&car_year=2003&rdm=1264972321095&lastStartYear=1981&model=M3&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2002&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=1&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=200&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=BMW&keywords_display=&color=&scarid=274012149&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=CONVERT&drive=&default_sort=&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=22201&advanced=&end_year=2006&doors=&transmission=&max_price=25000&cardist=205&standard=false

What about one of these. More performance than anything else in TD waffle threads, plus 2 in the back for when the kids want to come along?
:eeps:

I've considered going that route. I still might.

[TD]

I suppose I am biased but a 986 Boxster S is just going to be more fun than a Z4, besides being much better looking.

My advice, go find the nicest early 986S you can find, get it inspected and enjoy it. If it doesn't have Xenons, have them put in, or do it yourself (not hard). Enjoy it until you get tired of it and sell it for what you paid for it. :dunno:
986s v Z4 is a no brainer. There is just no way I'd take the Z4.

And your point is one why I'm seriously considering one - I could sell it for what I paid for it.

[Nick M3]

If you want a two seater and don't want to buy an Elise, buy a Miata.

[Terry Kennedy]

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=265410163&dealer_id=1032933&car_year=2003&rdm=1264972321095&lastStartYear=1981&model=M3&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=2002&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=1&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=used&distance=200&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=n&make=BMW&keywords_display=&color=&scarid=274012149&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&body_style=CONVERT&drive=&default_sort=&seller_type=b&max_mileage=&style_flag=2&sort_type=priceDESC&address=22201&advanced=&end_year=2006&doors=&transmission=&max_price=25000&cardist=205&standard=false
I'm ashamed to admit it, but they're just a couple miles down the road from me. I've never been in there, but it looks pretty iffy from the outside. They aren't even on "used car row" - they're a couple miles down the road across the street from a burned-out bagel shop. Here's (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=406+sip+ave+07306&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.052328,73.828125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=406+Sip+Ave,+Jersey+City,+Hudson,+New+Jersey +07306&ll=40.734763,-74.079786&spn=0.002167,0.004506&t=h&z=18) a Google satellite view. Note the collection of cars going back to nature in the back of the lot.

[Josh (PA)]

I'm ashamed to admit it, but they're just a couple miles down the road from me. I've never been in there, but it looks pretty iffy from the outside. They aren't even on "used car row" - they're a couple miles down the road across the street from a burned-out bagel shop. Here's (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=406+sip+ave+07306&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.052328,73.828125&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=406+Sip+Ave,+Jersey+City,+Hudson,+New+Jersey +07306&ll=40.734763,-74.079786&spn=0.002167,0.004506&t=h&z=18) a Google satellite view. Note the collection of cars going back to nature in the back of the lot.

I didn't even look at that particular car too closely, it was just an example of the age/mileage/price ratio that was available. The qualities e46 M3c offers seems to fit Tom's range of needs very well. From what I understand the 2002+ cars are pretty reliable too.

[TD]

I didn't even look at that particular car too closely, it was just an example of the age/mileage/price ratio that was available. The qualities e46 M3c offers seems to fit Tom's range of needs very well. From what I understand the 2002+ cars are pretty reliable too.
I had found a nice copy I was going to check out (and if it checked out, was seriously considering buying). I even called the day it was listed. But the dealership sales manager ended up buying it.

[Terry Kennedy]

I didn't even look at that particular car too closely, it was just an example of the age/mileage/price ratio that was available.
Good!

The qualities e46 M3c offers seems to fit Tom's range of needs very well. From what I understand the 2002+ cars are pretty reliable too.
My non-M E46 (09/2002 build) has been quite solid. OTOH, didn't the E46 M3 engines tend to blow up? I seem to recall BMW blamed it on a series of unfortunate manufacturing tolerances and extended the warranty.

[Nick M3]

They had a collection of defective main bearings that made it into production. S54s that haven't blown up by now probably won't.

[Sharp11]

Here's a really nice white ZHP vert from 05 - it's got just over 50 k on it and it looks really clean:

No, it's not an M3 vert, but it's in some ways, a better balanced package (lighter too).

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=34939399&listingRecNum=73&criteria=prMx%3D30000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6alMdId%3D26641%26mkId%3D20005%26stkTyp%3DU%26bsId %3D20202%26mdId%3D20439%26mdId%3D20443%26mdId%3D20 408%26mdId%3D20444%26mdId%3D20409%26mdId%3D20445%2 6mdId%3D21392%26rd%3D150%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-bsId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice-pseudoYear%26zc%3D06896%26rn%3D50%26PMmt%3D1-7-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26yrMn%3D2001%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26yrMx%3D2006%26al MkId%3D20005%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

[Sharp11]

Look at the condition of this one, an 02 330i vert with a sport package and 63k on the clock - they're only asking 15,900.

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=34124765&listingRecNum=128&criteria=prMx%3D30000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6alMdId%3D26641%26mkId%3D20005%26stkTyp%3DU%26bsId %3D20202%26mdId%3D20439%26mdId%3D20443%26mdId%3D20 408%26mdId%3D20444%26mdId%3D20409%26mdId%3D20445%2 6mdId%3D21392%26rd%3D150%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-bsId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice-pseudoYear%26zc%3D06896%26rn%3D100%26PMmt%3D1-7-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26yrMn%3D2001%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26yrMx%3D2006%26al MkId%3D20005%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

[wdc330i]

:eeps:

I've considered going that route. I still might.

A very good option.

[John V]

I'd take a ZHP 'vert over an M3 'vert anyday. With no roof you will have unabated aural access to the M3's tailpipe noise.

[Mr. The Edge]

I'd take a ZHP 'vert over an M3 'vert anyday.

+1

[lupinsea]

I admit I haven't read the whole thread. . . mostly the first page and random comments here or there so if the conversation has moved on, disregard the following.

I was really excited when the Solstice / Sky hit the market back when. But the more I learned about them the less I liked them. They still have some sexy styling and the 260 hp turbo charged engine makes them scoot nicely.

But the absolute deal killer for me is the soft top operation and trunk space.

The top because it's just a freak'n stupid design. And the trunk space because you'd ideally like to take just enough luggage with you for a weekend getaway.

To fold down the top: You need to stop the car. Get out. Open the rear hinged clam-shell deck cover. Remove half the stuff in the trunk. Then fold up the top. Then get back in the car.

And when the top is stowed it gobbles up half of the miniscule trunk space. And by miniscule we're talking half the volumne of a Miata's trunk. :eek:


In comparison to this, with the new NC Miata just pop the single central latch and throw the top back over your shoulder. Edmunds.com timed it. . . 3.55 second to put down. And that's seated, with your seatbelt on. And base don my experience with my NB, you can do it while driving up to 25 mph. :cool: It makes going top less so much faster and easier that you can do it between stop lights. Putting the top up takes longer, 4.5 seconds, and you have to reach over your shoulder.

The Miata's trunk is just big enough for a weekend getaway for two. And not one bit bigger. But it's at least usable. For my PCH road trip several years ago I had all my gear stuffed in the trunk and that included a tent, sleeping bag, clothing, and some other knicknacks.

Oh, and the Solstice transmission and shifter are more clunky than the Miata.

And it's 400 lb. heavier.

I guess, in other words, unless you REALLY need the power, I'd pick the Miata anyday (yes yes, I know I'm a bit of a fanboi for the car).

Go and drive both cars, and really work them over, playing with stuff.

That said, it's hard to imagine you'd go for a Miata OR Solstice/Sky.

[Terry Kennedy]

And the trunk space because you'd ideally like to take just enough luggage with you for a weekend getaway.
It depends on how much luggage discomfort you can tolerate in exchange for the fun of driving the car you want. I've gone to the country (150+ miles one way) for a long weekend with a girlfriend, and all of our luggage was in the passenger footwell. It helps that she's also a car nut and doesn't pack like she's getting ready for the siege of Troy. :D

I also drove cross-country with the car stuffed to the gills:

http://www.tmk.com/transient/HM0O7179-s.jpg

Go and drive both cars, and really work them over, playing with stuff.
Definitely the best idea.