PDA

View Full Version : Air Tool Suggestions?


lupinsea
01-22-2010, 05:57 PM
Now that I have my air compressor I'm tossing around the idea of picking up some air tools.

The compressor runs at 5.2 cfm @ 90 psi or 6.4 cfm @ 40 psi. My understanding it that it'll be ok with some intermittent use air tools such as air ratchets or impact wrenches but more continual-use air tools such as die grinders and sanders would not be smart. The CFM rating on my compressor is still on the lighter side but I have an ok reserve.

Does anyone have much experience with various air tools. What's recommended for working on cars and such (mechanical work, not body work). My first though was an air ratchet. But I've never used one. Do you loosen a bolt with a normal wrench first, then go at it with the air ratchet or to use rely on the air ratchet to break the bolt/nut loose AND take it off.

I would imagine size of tool is also important when working in the tight confines of a car.

Finally, do you need any special sockets for air wratchets or can regular sockets work ok. Talking about 3/8" size for the 3/8" air ratchets.

Like the compressor, I don't expect to use these tools as often as a professional would. Mostly intermittent. So would a air tool kit from CH or another maker be sufficent?

Noticed these kits on CH's website, I think they're going for ~$120 ea kit on the market:
http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/chPrd3_10051_10001_98425_-1_10676_10709_

http://www.chpower.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/chPrd3_10051_10001_115663_-1_10676_10709_


And HD had this more basic set for ~$60:
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202046995&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&ci_sku=202046995&ci_src=14110944&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D25X-_-202046995

And this from Lowes via their Kobalt brand (which, so far I've been impressed with, though I don't know much about other than what I've seen and handled) for ~$100:
http://www.lowes.com/pd_35546-55451-LG-081_0_?productId=1244421&Ntt=air%20tools&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=air%20tools$y=0$x=0

I don't need all the blow guns, needles, and other bits. It's mostly for the primary air tools of ratchet, impact wrench, and maybe air chisel (though I'm not sure I really need this).

Comments or thoughts?

Mostly I got my compressor for airing up tires, running my nail guns, and some light-duty spray painting and such. If I can run some other air tools it's a bonus. But I just don't have any experience with other air tools.

Nick M3
01-22-2010, 06:06 PM
Butterfly impact wrench. It'll change your life.

Air chisel. You'll only need it occasionally, but when you do...

Compressed air gun.

Air ratchets are nice, but not that nice.

Impact gun. This is the only thing you would consider specialized sockets for. Honestly, though, 6 point regular half inch sockets work just fine, particularly if they are, say, Craftsman so you can exchange them.

lupinsea
01-22-2010, 06:07 PM
Also, general question:

For the impact wrench and air ratchet. . . how do you know what torque setting the tools will tighten to?

Or do you simply barely get the bolts/nuts snugged down and finish it off with a proper torque wrench for precision?

Nick M3
01-22-2010, 06:08 PM
You can buy a torque stick, but generally you just snug it with the impact gun and use the torque wrench.

lupinsea
01-22-2010, 06:10 PM
Butterfly impact wrench. It'll change your life.

Air chisel. You'll only need it occasionally, but when you do...

Compressed air gun.

Air ratchets are nice, but not that nice.

Impact gun. This is the only thing you would consider specialized sockets for. Honestly, though, 6 point regular half inch sockets work just fine, particularly if they are, say, Craftsman so you can exchange them.

Hm, just looking into the butterfly impact wrenches, Interesting. They seem a bit bulky, though. Or maybe I'm just not seeing it in relation to anything else for a sense of scale.

Would you then recommend getting tools individually or in a kit?

Nick M3
01-22-2010, 07:06 PM
I know nothing about the quality of the kit stuff. I will say that I was given a little Campbell Hausfield compressor that I use to fill tires, and that all the fittings provided were such junk that I had to replace them.

I'd be generally inclined to go with Craftsman before Kobalt as the Kobalt tools I've handled are seriously cheesy.

I'd try pricing out what you want together vs. separately and then go play with it.

Rob
01-23-2010, 01:23 AM
If you were going to rebuild cars, you should completely ignore me and listen to everything Nick says. If you are going to use it for weekend projects, I might have a couple things to add.

Get an air chisel - especially if you get it as part of a kit. I typically use it once a year or so, but when you have a reason to use it, it's the greatest.

Silver sockets work, but sometimes you break them. Black ones don't break. The impact wrench will be used all the time, but I don't know what a butterfly impact wrench is. It's probably better if Nick likes it. The self coiling air hoses will make you want to throw something through a wall.

Some of my stuff is craftsman. Some is from Harbor Freight and I don't remember the brand. You need an air nozzle. All kinds of uses. Like blowing up the kiddy pool. Takes 30 seconds. Use quick releases on everything.

Terri Kennedy
01-23-2010, 03:22 AM
Comments or thoughts?
You definitely want the black sockets for an impact wrench. Some of the failure modes of chromed sockets used on impact tools are quite spectacular. If you have one of the bazillion piece socket sets, it probably came with a set of black ones. Fortunately, if you don't have those, you'll only need a few sizes - between the BMW and the Atom, I use about a half dozen sizes. Some of those weren't in the bazillion-piece set anyway (32mm axle nut, for example). If you're going to use an impact socket near good wheels, you'll probably want to get one with the plastic sleeve to avoid scratching up the paint.

One decision you need to make early on is which style of quick disconnect coupler you'll want. There are a number of semi- and incompatible types.

In addition to power air tools, I have a number of nozzles of various sizes and lengths (a few inches up to 4 feet) and a pair of sprayers which have fluid pickups as well as the air line. One is used for car wash only; the second is used for other cleaning agents like grease solvent. And you'll want a tire air chuck w/ gauge, either the classic "pop out stick", analog dial, or digital gauge, depending on how anal you are. Ones which let you bleed air out of the tire as well as inflating may be useful.

One you have all those lightweight tools, you'll probably want a rack for them. Watch out for the Griot's one - it only works with their non-standard couplers. The company that makes them for Griot's also sells standard ones [Edit: Not any more. It was a Rapid Reel 2001.078 but Rapid Reel got out of the air hose business].

Avoid those yellow tight-coil plastic air lines. They're springy enough to drag lighter tools across the floor when you put them down, they're never long enough, and the ends blow off at inconvenient times. Consider a retracting reel. The one Griot's sells [Edit: Not any more - they've cheaped out and replaced it with a different model] is a Macnaught Retracta which isn't bad. The hose will get rather rigid in cold weather, though.

Picture of the tool rack and reels (click to enlarge):

http://www.tmk.com/garage2/6F5S2629-s.jpg (http://www.tmk.com/garage2/6F5S2629-l.jpg)

Note the extension house on the air reel input. These reels generally expect that you're going to run black pipe hard line to near where the reel is mounted, so you'll need an extension unless you're also installing permanent shop air lines.

Lastly, 2 things that will prolong the life of your tools: 1) Install a moisture trap on the compressor outlet and 2) Use air tool oil to lubricate things like impact wrenches before putting them away.

lupinsea
01-26-2010, 04:09 PM
I guess my question about the standard vs. impact sockets was meant for the impact wrench but for the "regular" air ratchet wrench.

I actually have a 120v plug-in electric DeWalt impact wrench. Good for 250 ft-lb which is fine for removing tires and such but I don't use it on anything else as it's a bit bulky. I understand the air impact wrenches can have higher torque ratings but most of the ones in the kits are ~250 - 350 ft-lb. One benefit is that at least they are smaller, about half the size of the DeWalt unit I have.

Rob, I took at look at some youtube videos on the air chisels. They definitely seem like a kick-ass tool for special operations.

My current air tool list includes:

Framing nailer
Finish nailer
Palm nailer
Air tire filler upper (has short hose w/ plunge guage)
Air nozzle / blow gun


25 ft self coiling 1/4" air hose for quickie stuff like airing up tires
50 ft rubber 3/8" decent quality air hose for everything else


So far all the couplers I've been using have been the 1/4" I/M type (they look like this (http://images.marketworks.com/hi/51/51407/ri-30224.jpg)). It was what a few of my tools had on them when I inherited them and for the new tools I simply got matching couplers. Although a quick search for theimage in the link turned up some interesting reading on different coupler types and their flow rates and internal bore diameters. So I might need to revisit this later. As it is, most of the fittings I see on the job sites are the same thing I'm running.

After reading through here I'm starting to lean away from the kits . . . or at least reconsidering them. It seems like they are a decent way to get started but they're also packed with a lot of extra bits I don't think I'd really need. And I might be able to get better tools individually. And I can see some as being more useful sooner than later. The Air ratchet, for instance seems more useful now. The air chisel I can pick up when I need it later. And I still have my DeWalt impact wrench which is still usable but can be replaced later.

And I'd probably be looking into a paint spray system. . . . which is a whole other can of worms. :D

Terry, thanks for posting the shot of those hose and cord reels. It has me thinking I can mount one (or both) centerally on the ceiling of my garage (11 ft ceilings). May be install a ceiling outlet for the electric cord reel as I only have one 120 v outlet in my garage right now and it's shared with the garage door opener.

Once I get my shed built this summer I'll be reorganizing my tools and equipment and have a better idea of how I want to set up the garage. I may end up keeping the compressor in the garage so maybe finding a home for it against a wall and plumbing it to a hose reel would be a way to go. It looks like your air reel is connected to a rubber air line that runs down the wall. . . do you use a quick disconnect for that or just a threaded connection? And rubber vs. iron pipe was for ease of installation I take it?

Rob
01-26-2010, 07:30 PM
I cannot stand the self coiling hoses. All they do is try and pull your tool back to the compressor. Instead, I got a really long hose, attached it to a reel, and mounted the reel. Nearly as easy to crank back in and much easier to actually use. I gave my coiled hose away after using it once. Your mileage may vary.

I wouldn't dismiss kits out of hand - check the prices. If they are less than what you would spend otherwise, but contain more stuff, you win twice.

Nick M3
01-26-2010, 09:30 PM
I cannot stand the self coiling hoses. All they do is try and pull your tool back to the compressor. Instead, I got a really long hose, attached it to a reel, and mounted the reel. Nearly as easy to crank back in and much easier to actually use. I gave my coiled hose away after using it once. Your mileage may vary.

I wouldn't dismiss kits out of hand - check the prices. If they are less than what you would spend otherwise, but contain more stuff, you win twice.
The good self coiling ones only retract on cue.

Terri Kennedy
01-26-2010, 10:21 PM
I may end up keeping the compressor in the garage so maybe finding a home for it against a wall and plumbing it to a hose reel would be a way to go. It looks like your air reel is connected to a rubber air line that runs down the wall. . . do you use a quick disconnect for that or just a threaded connection? And rubber vs. iron pipe was for ease of installation I take it?
If I was going to plumb in an entire air system I'd use black pipe. Since it is just an extension between the reel and the compressor, I just picked up a M/F extension of the right length at Grainger.

The compressor end has quick disconnect couplers so I can take the compressor out of the garage when I need it elsewhere.
I cannot stand the self coiling hoses. All they do is try and pull your tool back to the compressor. Instead, I got a really long hose, attached it to a reel, and mounted the reel. Nearly as easy to crank back in and much easier to actually use. I gave my coiled hose away after using it once. Your mileage may vary.
That's certainly true of the crappy ones. My power one is a Reelcraft, and its price doubled from when I bought it (it's like $400 now). More info over here (http://forums.carmudgeons.com/showthread.php?p=251839&highlight=reelcraft#post251839). The air hose reel is a Macnaught Retracta which isn't quite as good, but still quite satisfactory (10-year full manufacturer warranty). I also have Retracta reels for regular and de-ionized water as well (green and blue hoses with color-matched Griot's-type nozzles). That was back when I was in my "find who makes this stuff for Griot's and post it on the 'fest" phase.

Rob
01-27-2010, 01:52 PM
When I see "self coiling," I think of the coiled up hose that comes in the kits. I wasn't thinking of a spring loaded reel. I have one of those to mount - it's next on my project list.

Certainly a self coiling reel makes life better, not worse. A power one would be even better yet.

lupinsea
01-27-2010, 02:45 PM
If I was going to plumb in an entire air system I'd use black pipe. Since it is just an extension between the reel and the compressor, I just picked up a M/F extension of the right length at Grainger.

The compressor end has quick disconnect couplers so I can take the compressor out of the garage when I need it elsewhere.

Bingo. That's what I can easily see doing. Seems to make a ton of sense.



That's certainly true of the crappy ones. My power one is a Reelcraft, and its price doubled from when I bought it (it's like $400 now).
I'm sure they're awesome hose reels (you do have a good track record for picking awesome stuff) but I just can't wrap my head around paying more for a hose reel than I did for my compressor. :D

I am concerned with a spring-loaded hose reel that the spring wears over time and won't retract very well.

Terri Kennedy
01-28-2010, 02:08 AM
I am concerned with a spring-loaded hose reel that the spring wears over time and won't retract very well.
Well, the Retracta units I'm using (2 for water, 1 for air) have a 10 year warranty and replacement parts are readily available from the manufacturer. Here (http://www.macnaught.com.au/persistent/catalogue_files/products/REELS_Retracta_Reels_Series_2_Models.pdf) is the user / service manual. This same reel system is used for air, low-pressure water, 5000 PSI grease, and oxy/acetylene. Given the last 2, I expect they know what they're doing. Looks like the AR100 air hose one can be had for around $140 (for example, here (http://www.hosexpress.com/productcart/pc/viewcategories.asp?idCategory=64).

The lowest price I could find with a quick search for my Reelcraft electrical cord reel was $289 here (http://www.hosereelsdir.com/product/L%204545%20123%203).