View Full Version : Drove an M3 SMG, an M5, an X5 4.6is, a 760iL, and a Z4 3.0
At the two day school, they turn you loose on one of the "autocross" courses in a range of BMW models. You only get two laps in each car, but the upside is that you can thrash them all you want. The section also included slightly less than a quarter of a mile or so of straightaway at the beginning to get a feel for acceleration.
Some impressions, first to last:
X5 4.6is: Even the Alpina engine strains to launch the X5, but once you get rolling the acceleration is impressive. Especially through second, the truck really pulls. Handling is, for an SUV, very good, but by car standards it feels big, heavy, and slow to react. The monster meats on the wheels provide lots of grip, and the chassis is well balanced, but flickable this thing isn't. OTOH, body roll is less than expected. I continue to miss the point, I guess; I'd much rather have, say, an Aero and a Porsche.
760iL: Looong. Handles decently, but the steering is slow. The V12 provides smooth acceleration, but it doesn't feel as powerful as it is, probably because of all of the mass. The car can be man-handled through a slalom, but it's not happy about it. Body roll is essentially zero. They spent 10 minutes explaining the transmission, and some still couldn't figure it out. They didn't even attempt to explain the iDrive.
M3 SMG: After the 330s and the beasts above, the M3 was a revelation. It takes driving the same course back-to-back at close to the limit to realize how much more capable the M3 is than the 330i. The SMG was as I expected it to be. It provides clean, sharp shifts and is very nice to have on a track, since you don't have to worry about rev-matching. It's also surprisingly tractable at slow speeds. OTOH, the driver involvement is definitely lower, and you don't get the satisfaction of pulling clean up and down shifts. The paddles are hard to find when the wheel is cranked over, though my co-driver pointed out you could use the stick for this (it didn't occur to me). All in all, I'm impressed with the SMG, but I concur with the analysis of one of the instructors: On the track, I'll take an SMG, because it will definitely give you faster and more consistent times. On the street, the 6 speed is more fun.
Z4: This was the biggest surprise for me. I've driven Z4s before (on the street) and not been impressed. On the track, the chassis is brilliant. The car is really capable at the limit, and is far more tossable than I expected it to be. The 3.0 has a lot of punch, even with a slushie. I still think it drives like a cut down 3 series, but closer to an M3 than anything else. I wouldn't buy one because it's damn ugly and still no fun on the street (IMHO), but it'd be fun as a trackday car.
M5: Fast, fast, fast. The torque of the engine is incredible, and babying the shifts is critical as a result (a series of novice stick drivers before me left a palpable stench of burned friction disc). It handles very well, but it's noticeably bigger, heavier and not as tossable as the M3. I like this car.
But I like the M3 better.
Bottom line? The 6 speed M3 was my favorite of the group, even if cost is not an object. And I couldn't help but wonder what it would have been like to have some other cars there for comparison, like, e.g., an E36 M3. Or a Z06 Corvette.
Mathew
10-19-2003, 09:03 PM
Was this at the PDC in South Carolina?
I did that last summer, but they didn't give us the M3 or the 4.6is.
dredmo
10-19-2003, 09:17 PM
Wow, you lucky dog, sounds like a lot of fun.
Not that I have been so lucky, but I think I would like the M3 w/SMG the best as well.
clyde
10-19-2003, 10:05 PM
Or a Z06 Corvette.
That the Vette is the Vette and the M3 is the Mustang GT. :sumo:
operknockity
10-19-2003, 10:23 PM
Were is that :jealous: smilie when you need it?
lemming
10-20-2003, 12:15 PM
J-man:
would you change your mind if they came out with an M Z4?
that would really appeal to me (although, i just couldn't buy it). dynamically, it would be the best car in the lineup in terms of weight, balance and handling.
J-man:
would you change your mind if they came out with an M Z4?
that would really appeal to me (although, i just couldn't buy it). dynamically, it would be the best car in the lineup in terms of weight, balance and handling.
Based on current Z4 prices, an M version would be in the mid-50s in terms of price. That, coupled with the fact that it's a convertible (and so cannot be used on many tracks) and its heinous, heinous styling would keep me away. For that kind of money, a Z06 would be a much better bet--it would have more power and still be lighter. Alternately, for street use, a mildly used 911 would be more interesting to me.
I agree that dynamically an MZ4 would be quite a car, and would certainly be a lot more capable than the M roadster ever was.
The HACK
10-20-2003, 01:49 PM
Z4: This was the biggest surprise for me. I've driven Z4s before (on the street) and not been impressed. On the track, the chassis is brilliant. The car is really capable at the limit, and is far more tossable than I expected it to be. The 3.0 has a lot of punch, even with a slushie. I still think it drives like a cut down 3 series, but closer to an M3 than anything else.
You know the Z4s come standard with RUN FLAT tires right? Couple that car with a decent Z rated tire (S-03s for example) and that car will blow your mind. Of all the cars in current BMW production (yes, that includes the ///Ms), this is the BEST handling car in their line-up.
And I'm not saying that because I do have a Z4 with SSG. :paranoid:
Z4: This was the biggest surprise for me. I've driven Z4s before (on the street) and not been impressed. On the track, the chassis is brilliant. The car is really capable at the limit, and is far more tossable than I expected it to be. The 3.0 has a lot of punch, even with a slushie. I still think it drives like a cut down 3 series, but closer to an M3 than anything else.
You know the Z4s come standard with RUN FLAT tires right? Couple that car with a decent Z rated tire (S-03s for example) and that car will blow your mind. Of all the cars in current BMW production (yes, that includes the ///Ms), this is the BEST handling car in their line-up.
And I'm not saying that because I do have a Z4 with SSG. :paranoid:
The run-flats are a must, IMHO. I'm already carrying a spare tire around in the M3 to make up for BMWs error in not providing one; I doubt it would fit well into a Z4 while still leaving any luggage space.
For track days, I suppose you could run without a spare, but I think there are many better dedicated track cars than the Z4. In addition to the Z06, the Elise, the Caterham Super 7, the Atom, and any number of other similarly dedicated machines are superior.
The Z4 ends up being an odd duck. I agree that the handling is excellent. But it's compromised as a street car; it may outhandle an M3, but it has far less utility. Ultimately, it's not as much fun to drive on the street as either a Boxster or an S2000, even if its handling is better (which, actually, is a pretty open question). And either of those cars is ten times better looking.
I hope you enjoy your Z4, and I don't mean any of this personally, but I can't imagine a situation where I would ever consider buying one.
The HACK
10-20-2003, 02:40 PM
The run-flats are a must, IMHO. I'm already carrying a spare tire around in the M3 to make up for BMWs error in not providing one; I doubt it would fit well into a Z4 while still leaving any luggage space.
No, they're not. All new BMWs come with roadside assistance. If you ever get a puncture or a flat, get the car towed. :dunno:
I realize it's not a practical car. I've already got two of those so this was a pretty logical choice for me. Personally, either the S2000 or Boxster S would have been good choices as well, but I can't stand the Boxster styling and the S2000 isn't much better (a bit bland if you ask me).
But to each his own. And the Z4 really does not make a good track car because it's a convertible but I've already got a very good track car right now...My 323Ci.
...but I can't stand the Boxster styling...
And he buys a Z4.
Remind me never to let this guy set me up on a blind date. YIKES!!
The run-flats are a must, IMHO. I'm already carrying a spare tire around in the M3 to make up for BMWs error in not providing one; I doubt it would fit well into a Z4 while still leaving any luggage space.
No, they're not. All new BMWs come with roadside assistance. If you ever get a puncture or a flat, get the car towed. :dunno:
Spoken like someone who has never been outside of cell phone range.
On my recent trip down to South Carolina, I spent a fair amount of time in places where either a) cell phone coverage is spotty, at best, or b) there really isn't anywhere to get the car towed *to.* And on a long trip, do you want to sit in a hotel room someplace while your car sits in back of Bubba's shop waiting for an 18" tire to arrive from Tire Rack? Especially if doing so means missing your vacation?
Or how about hanging around on the Jersey turnpike at midnight waiting for a tow truck to show up? And once it does, you're still 2 hours from your destination, with no way to get there?
Yeah. No thanks. If I were *ever* stuck by the side of the road unable to complete my trip because of BMW's insistence that flats don't happen anymore (or that cars can just get towed), you can't imagine how pissed I would be. And that doesn't take into account my wife's reaction...
I wonder why they didn't have you drive an E60 :?
I wonder why they didn't have you drive an E60 :?
There was only one in the fleet at the Performance Center, and it was being used by another group. Our instructors tried, but we got the 4.6is instead.
The HACK
10-20-2003, 04:26 PM
Hey, I know the car's not practical. And it's never going to leave the So. Cal area. I have two other cars for that.
I think you guys are missing the point of having a roadster. You compare the Z4 vs. Boxter vs. S2000...None of these cars will likely see long trips, period. How many Boxster S owners do you see out in the middle of nowhere (Kansas you say)? I'm willing to bet that the MAJORITY of S2000s sold are sold in Metropolitan areas. These are cars for people who's already got another car in the garage.
And styling and taste is all subjective. Really. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean EVERYONE ELSE won't like it. Take Britney Spears for example... :D
lemming
10-20-2003, 05:02 PM
Hey, I know the car's not practical. And it's never going to leave the So. Cal area. I have two other cars for that.
I think you guys are missing the point of having a roadster. You compare the Z4 vs. Boxter vs. S2000...None of these cars will likely see long trips, period. How many Boxster S owners do you see out in the middle of nowhere (Kansas you say)? I'm willing to bet that the MAJORITY of S2000s sold are sold in Metropolitan areas. These are cars for people who's already got another car in the garage.
And styling and taste is all subjective. Really. Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean EVERYONE ELSE won't like it. Take Britney Spears for example... :D
HACK: i think we all agree that styling is subjective, no need to get defensive. i dislike (moderately) the way the z4 looks, but having driven it, i can see why people, in general, would buy it.
i guess, barring a deal such as yours, the car is on the expensive side (to me). i'm not exactly a bargain shopper, but when dynamics is my bottom line and i could conceivably get it in the revamped 2.2 Litre S2000 for about $15,000 less, these days, i'd likely get a car such as that first.
obviously, driving an STi, i am not one to criticize what other people drive. :smile:
The HACK
10-20-2003, 05:06 PM
Didn't realize I was being defensive...I guess it comes across that way when I'm responding to each and every post made in this thread. :dunno:
Just trying to edumacate these guys that's all. :twisted:
By the way, the so called "deal" works out to be, that the Z4 cost about $3,500 more than my wife's 323Ci. Pretty sweet, eh?
lemming
10-20-2003, 05:47 PM
Didn't realize I was being defensive...I guess it comes across that way when I'm responding to each and every post made in this thread. :dunno:
Just trying to edumacate these guys that's all. :twisted:
By the way, the so called "deal" works out to be, that the Z4 cost about $3,500 more than my wife's 323Ci. Pretty sweet, eh?
i will jump forward first and say that i have a closed mind about the new designs.
i know that dynamically, they are superior, but i just can't get past the looks, for some reason.
it's just a parallel argument that goes on in every car marque. for example: does the 996 run the 'ring faster than the 993? you bet it does. by a lot. but, i could never, in a million years, warm to the 996. it's completely irrational. just transfer that to the argument here. that's me. :D
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