And the wait begins... [Archive]

equ

09-09-2009, 03:14 PM

Color ended up being an easy choice. Unlike the M3 vis. 3-series, there are almost no visual differentiators other than color. I don't need the car to shout "S4!", but I see a sea of gray/black/silver and newly white around. This left imola yellow and sprint blue (not so into red). I like them both, but friends & family would not let me do the yellow around here and for good reason. So blue it is and it looks great, a touch bright, but hopefully not too much negative attention (cops/vandals).

Interior was harder. Was set on the base aluminum trim until I went in again today to order. The carbon was much nicer on any interior color. Had brief thoughts on the silver/black leather or the base alcantara, but went conservative on this. The silver/black looks awesome and feels special, but needs a toned down exterior which the sprint blue isn't. If you have to get the car in black, this should be your interior. The alcantara is just fine and matches any color, but I felt luxo rather than sporty on a sedan. Both alcantara and leather get old, but I don't mind the look of weathered leather, whereas alcantara might get piles and need to be shaved... So there, I kept wanting to post on these minute decisions for the last few days, but didn't want to bother everyone.

Theo

09-09-2009, 03:46 PM

Awesome choice Equ. Can't wait to hear your impressions after some time with the car.

Nice early Christmas present when it comes in.

Plaz

09-09-2009, 03:48 PM

Congrats! Can't wait to see/hear it sometime!

equ

09-09-2009, 04:05 PM

3 month expected wait as I noted above. I don't think sunroof delete was an option as it was not on the order guide or website, but I didn't inquire. I don't mind, this car is extremely unlikely to ever be on a track and if that, very casually. Anyway, the cayman is the ultimate sunroof delete car. :)

I would like to think that it is very unlikely for me to want to sell this car anytime soon. Obviously I wouldn't be going through a 3-month wait and doling out this kind of cash with that expectation. Just the taxes and fees are over $4000. I want eight years out of this one... (aiming high here)

Despite my rapid trading 'mudgeon history, I have generally kept my brand new cars several years. The pre-mudgeon a4 2.8q, I had for over four years. The cayman, I have owned for 3 and it is going strong. The exception was the imola zhp, that I parked out, it got vandalized, it got hit while parked, it got hit at an intersection, it got broken into and finally a motorcycle fell on to it... That was a lease that I transferred out of. I will have to lose my job or leave the country to sell this one.

I was very impressed with my test drive. Kind of cool that I put the 330i on the market that evening (well, relisted) and now, ten days after my first test drive, the bmw is sold and I have placed my order.

I also gushed about the rs4 and m3. Those have more exotic sounding, revvy v8's and fantastic handling for sedans closing in on 4000lbs. The s4 does have a hoover sounding v6, but the overall handling of the car might be better than the rs4. I'll give the edge on steering feel to the rs4, which is like no other audi on the planet, but this car has the better chassis, lighter and better balanced. The m3 is great as well, but as I wrote elsewhere, I like the spare (19" donut :eek:) and the presumed highway consumption/range. The interior and the awesome torque don't hurt either. Neither does the price, which is optioned-up 335 territory. I could have wintered with the 330i, but I just don't see a discounted s4 next spring. They may become harder to get.

IndyMike

09-09-2009, 05:18 PM

PROPS equ.

Good call on Sprint blue, although I'd have to disqualify myself as being objective since all 3 of my horseless carriages are of the blue palette variety.

The silver/black interior sounds like a knockout. Are you sure that's really not going to work for you? I'd have to at least see a pic of it (I'll go to the Audi site a little later), but at first blush that sounds like a winner to me.

As far as ordering cars, every vehicle except my very first one (Mustang), and first BMW (318is) have been of the ordered variety. This included two domestics (Ford Ranger Splash & Ford Escape) that were special ordered.

My opinion is if you're going to spend this kind of money make sure it's the exact color, with the precise options you want or you risk protracted remorse over the coming years, and kicking yourself over something you compromised on.

8 years, huh? I just checked the odds in Vegas and they have it listed on the board as 2 to 1 against you making it that long without switching out. :)

IndyMike

09-09-2009, 05:36 PM

silver-black:

http://mediaservice.audi.com/media/live/50710/yb/8k2549-0-wptwpt/2010/56+zw/aaue0a/appgs4/eih5tg/eil7m2/lra1xw/lum7ha/mas6e3/nav7t6/sag7f9/sibn1u/vosq4q.jpeg

black:

http://mediaservice.audi.com/media/live/50710/yb/8k2549-0-wptwpt/2010/56+zm/aaue0a/appgs4/eih5tg/eil7m2/lra1xw/lum7ha/mas6e3/nav7t6/sag7f9/sibn1u/vosq4q.jpeg

You sure you don't need to perseverate on this call at least just a bit? :D

equ

09-09-2009, 05:55 PM

The silver/black is beautiful and feels special to sit in. I perseverated hard on this one so don't make me go back to the dealer now, will you?

I think it's good for a black or similar exterior. I felt like with sprint blue, the shouty two-tone competes with the bright exterior color.
Hell, if I had given up on the sport diff, I would have taken home a sprint blue/silver/black exactly like my order from the showroom floor (and gotten a much better deal with no wait). Here are some better pics of it:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f149/pyiu/2010%20Audi%20S4/IMG_3539.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f149/pyiu/2010%20Audi%20S4/IMG_3543.jpg

equ

09-09-2009, 05:57 PM

Equ's gf voted for silver/black, but I went a little cautious on this one. The other thing is that the build pics you posted don't show the nice white/silver stitching on the black interior. That picks it up a bit:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3382/3450183857_021c84f538_b.jpg
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3331/3450998266_b2fbb78c9d_b.jpg

dan

09-09-2009, 06:08 PM

I'd never pass up alcantara though...

lemming

09-09-2009, 07:08 PM

what is the new supercharged engine like compared to the standard naturally aspirated Audi corporate 340hp v8?

Plaz

09-09-2009, 07:48 PM

Definitely black/black... especially if you're planning on holding on to it for an extended duration. Those light colors always get a little grimy after a few years, even if well cared for.

Terri Kennedy

09-09-2009, 09:09 PM

Thanks, folks! They said three months.

Is that due to limited production or ordering just when the factory is getting back to work after the August vacation/new-model-year-tooling?

As I recall, my BMW was around 6 weeks from order to delivery, just a little earlier in the month, back in 2002.

At least it isn't an Atom. When the leadtime crept past 18 months, they stopped giving firm build dates.

equ

09-09-2009, 09:32 PM

TMK: No I think 3 months seem to be the usual for Audi's. Last year, a5's were running later as dealers had no allocations.

Lem: Interesting engine. When I did the Q5 event, I spent 10seconds driving an a6 with a detuned version of this engine and I didn't like its sound but didn't really get a feel for it. On the s4, it feels really quick. Definitely quicker than the v8 s4, which had a brutish sound, but needed a few more revs for the torque to kick in. It's more 335-like, with worse sound but subjectively better response at any rpm. The sound is definitely not great, but at least it's not loud. Great daily driver... I don't quite believe the EPA 18/26 figures just yet, we'll see.

Undef: You have a point. I don't think about the silver/black much, but I had been considering and now you have me thinking again of alcantara. Cooler in the summer, and this particular incarnation is super grippy, I felt velcro'ed to the seat. I guess I liked the zhp scheme of cloth inserts and alcantara bolsters, sides, headrests. Here the inserts are alcantara. Also the a4 s-line has alcantara that is perforated, this one isn't for whatever reason. I don't know it's a tough one. I think I actually may prefer alcantara (velvety, sporty) but feel cautious about it. I'm used to dealing with and caring for leather (zymol). There is no such thing for alcantara, but old alcantara piles up or fuzzes, looking like an old motel couch. Leather gets old as well, but it looks better imho, cracks and wear give it character. If I had the guarantee that the alcantara would stay pristine, I'd probably do it.

More black leather/carbon (my current order) shots here:

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4125198&postcount=68

kognito

09-09-2009, 09:41 PM

Congrats Equ!

Ummm, you do know that Audi has a similar ED program as BMW (accept no discount)

Would be fun to break that puppy in on the Autobahn!

RMR

09-09-2009, 09:51 PM

TMK: No I think 3 months seem to be the usual for Audi's. Last year, a5's were running later as dealers had no allocations.

Yea, I remember having to order my 2000 Audi A4 Avant 1.8T because there was not a manual to be found on any lot. it took about 3 months from the time it was ordered to the time it was delivered. I remember that wait being hell! Good luck and a serious congrats on the choice you made. I love the car.

equ

09-09-2009, 10:21 PM

So now I have spent the last half hour obsessing about alcantara. I test drove one with it (at a dealer I didn't order at) and remember liking it.. It felt nice, like sitting in velvet. Anyway here is a very overexposed pic and another much better pic. The first, unfairly overexposed picture helps me stick to the leather order. Alcantara would have saved $1000 (and a couple of bottles of zymol over the years):

http://www.audizine.com/gallery/data/500/DSCF0025.JPG
http://forums.audiworld.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=4437&stc=1&d=1251859623

Terri Kennedy

09-09-2009, 10:30 PM

So now I have spent the last half hour obsessing about alcantara. I test drove one with it (at a dealer I didn't order at) and remember liking it.. It felt nice, like sitting in velvet.
Wasn't there some big hoopla over at the 'fest about the fuzz wearing off on ZHP's? Was that specific to BMW, or all Alcantara? Hmmm. Looks like Alcantara is a trade name of one particular brand of the stuff. The name for the generic is "ultrasuede".

Theo

09-10-2009, 01:48 AM

Definitely black/black... especially if you're planning on holding on to it for an extended duration. Those light colors always get a little grimy after a few years, even if well cared for.

The black grey in my 03 M5 still look fantastic. Now the dove leather on my 99 M3 was a completly different story.

armaq

09-10-2009, 01:58 AM

Wasn't there some big hoopla over at the 'fest about the fuzz wearing off on ZHP's? Was that specific to BMW, or all Alcantara? Hmmm. Looks like Alcantara is a trade name of one particular brand of the stuff. The name for the generic is "ultrasuede".

I think it's the steering wheel that's prone to getting worn off. My 6-yr old alcantara seats still look pretty good, but the steering wheel which was replaced 3 years ago is already worn. IMO, an alcantara wrapped steering wheel is meant to be used with gloves. It's one of those race car things that doesn't work on a street car.

Congrats on the new car equ! I heard changing the stock exhaust helps with the acoustics situation.

09-10-2009, 09:23 AM

I would go with the alcantara. I will never get alcantara on the steering wheel of a daily driver again (it just doesn't wear well over tens of thousands of miles), but it's great for the seats.

Congrats on the car equ. As I said, without even looking at it, this is a great contender for a year-round sedan for me when and if I get back to one.

lupinsea

09-10-2009, 11:42 AM

Our ZHP has 101,000 miles on it with the original Alcantara steering wheel. . . it's in better condition now than when we bought the car used at 45k miles 3 years ago. :dunno:

It used to be fuzzed up slightly but shuffling the wheel through my calloused hands has warn the fuzz smooth again. So no big deal, no wierd wear patters or fuzzing for me.

That said, I never liked the Alcantara steering wheel and didn't see what the big deal was. I liked my Miata steering wheel significantly better than BMW's M wheel.

Jeff_DML

09-10-2009, 04:47 PM

I would go alcantara too, save $1k is a nice bonus too

nice car

lemming

09-10-2009, 05:31 PM

is there a reason why Audi went with supercharging here instead of turbocharging?

always seems like turbocharging is much more efficient since it's not parasitic on the engine and given the reasonable displacement of 3.0L, turbo lag would not be an issue.

just curious if there are VAG reasons for this path --the rest of their lineup is also turbo.

equ

09-10-2009, 07:00 PM

I haven't researched it. My usual response of "Buy first, think about it later..." :)

In my limited test drives, I felt a nice crispness and linearity of response to the throttle/engine. While the 335i is smooth, this thing is a bit more instant.

lemming

09-10-2009, 08:50 PM

09-10-2009, 10:34 PM

Knowing nearly nothing about FI, I think I recall MB using superchargers because they work better at the low end and offer a less laggy, larger displacement feel. You pay for it at the top end, of course - and much like with turbo's, that may have to do with the design/implementation.

On mostly slushy cars (as with MB's), you will sacrifice top end rip for smooth, consistent low-end performance every time.

Rob

09-11-2009, 12:37 AM

Congrats, equ. I hope you love it for 200,000 miles.

I recommend following its progress every day, finding out what ship it's on and following the ships progress every day, taking pictures of the port sort of near where you live, but where your car is NOT being dropped off when the ship passes through, and having a party when it gets in. Well, that was me. Perhaps you don't have to be quite such a nutcase.

As far as ordering goes, out of the 8 cars I remember purchasing off the top of my head, I ordered three of them. Two of those I didn't order were exactly what I would have ordered sitting on the lot, so ordering wasn't necessary (I may have made one compromise on the MINI - I remember thinking it had this, but didn't have that and it was a wash). One of them didn't have any options other than color, so ordering wasn't necessary (CTS-V). The other two were used. So, even while I am a big fan of ordering, It looks like I am at less than 50%. Still, every one of those cars (except maybe the MINI which was really for Kelley anyway) was exactly what I wanted or used. That has to count for something.

Hmm. Here's another metric. The only cars that I have ever purchased that weren't optioned exactly as I wanted them had either depreciated at least $30,000 already or were less than $20,000 total. $50k? Definately order. :)

equ

09-11-2009, 11:03 AM

is that unit a.......twin screw? rotrex-like? centrifugal?

i haven't read up on it at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfoa2VO8c6E

Interview with audi development engineers...

09-11-2009, 11:05 AM

Equ, I'd find out about their European delivery program. I hear thery offer 5% off.

lemming

09-11-2009, 11:20 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfoa2VO8c6E

Interview with audi development engineers...

can i get the summary because i don't want to watch that during the workday.

i'll look it up tonight, though. ;)

equ

09-15-2009, 01:16 PM

No equ car buying would be complete without some drama... And over the last two days, I've managed to work myself into some. Six days after my order, I'm grappling with the cold, hard pill of writing off $56k+ (after taxes, fees etc). This is, somewhat coincidentally, in the ballpark of what I spent on the cayman. That turned out to be fine, as the car is such a classic and so special to drive. I also had a few good years of work after that, so the purchase didn't feel so bad.

Well now the work situation is bleaker, and yes, while I have decent savings and most likely don't need worry about the cash outlay, I am worrying. So why did I order while business is not going so well? I guess I am impulsive and have an expensive addiction to buying cars. I'm rather frugal in the rest of my life, the pricey cars are a touch out of place.

Anyway, I'm thinking in circles (but mostly keeping the thoughts from you). If I were to lose employment or take time off work for personal reasons, the cash purchase of the s4 would weigh on me. A $20k audi would be ok a to b and would get me through the winter. But then again, I've never bought a stellar car for under $30k, so if you want recent, warranty etc, the budget creeps up. Then I think 'Why bother with the previous generation when the new generation is better in most ways (not all)? It doesn't always save money to buy the older car.'. So the budget is up in the high 30's (if not 40) now with an a4 sport (which was why I was at the audi dealer in the first place). At which point, a special kick-ass car like the s4 is only 20% more (before taxes)... And on and on.

There is no commission number yet. I'm fairly certain that the dealership would incur no losses if they cancel my order. Not sure if they'll refund me the $3k deposit (above which non-refundable is handwritten). They really should but I haven't dared ask yet until I make up my mind one way or another.

09-15-2009, 01:39 PM

I can understand that completely. You need to be comfortable with the expense. I also wrestled with buying the 987S and that is also why the ZHP HAD to go.

09-15-2009, 01:52 PM

I can certainly understand. I made myself sick handing over $41K for the "ZHP" back in 2003. That was a foolish amount of money for a 3 Series back then.

Can they really make a deposit non-refundable? Hand-writing it onto the sales order hardly seems "legit".

Plaz

09-15-2009, 02:11 PM

It's pretty hard to tackle this question on a car forum, especially one with an above-average mean intelligence of the populace, like this one.

We all know that logically, getting anything more than a stripper Civic or Camry doesn't really make sense from a purely financially utilitarian perspective.

Everything more expensive or indulgent than that has to be weighed in each of our minds individually, as it is a completely subjective value judgment... how much money is xxx units of automotive awesomeness worth to us?

It's impossible to rationally, logically say you should buy the car. Tenuous justifications for the purchase, with shaky silly-string connections to something resembling logic can be erected, but that's really just window dressing. The fact that you already have at least one truly amazing go machine only adds to the shakiness.

All that being said, if I had the means and lack of obligations to even be able to consider an expensive chunk of win like the S4, an M3 or whatever, without seriously damaging my lifestyle or family's future, I'd certainly do it.

equ

09-15-2009, 02:12 PM

Re: the deposit... I think some deposit is fair, especially later in the process. If I have an orange car coming in, why should they be liable if I back out? At this point, I've only cost the dealership hassle, they haven't given me a commision number (forget a factory order bank or a date, whatever these things mean), but it is still hassle. If I do intend to cancel, and do it quickly, I would genuinely be surprised if they hold me to the $3000.

equ

09-15-2009, 02:16 PM

Thanks for the responses, folks... It's not really a rational this car vs. that car question, so there's really not much point in my opening this up. Only I should know whether this is affordable or sensible, and at this point, I'm so confused, I don't.

I will say that my gf (who wasn't so keen on the cayman -> 997S idea) backed this originally (in fact insisted on the s4 over the a4/a5, for the firmer steering and clutch)...

I guess it was a "vent". And I think some of you have been there.

09-15-2009, 02:23 PM

...to consider an expensive chunk of win like the S4

Hehe. That was funny.

-----

Let me just say that while I started out with epic POS's and moved on to what I thought was an awesome 10 yo 108K sluhie MB, I then bought 3 new cars and forgot the awesome value of a solid, cheap car.

The Jeep has proven to be quite a car. Sure, I've not been bitten by a bad alternator, pump, tranny, etc, but if a car is not driven heavily, it's worth taking a look at a used car for complimentary duties.

With the reality of a $40K/year childcare expense staring at us, I don't think I'll be doing much in the way of car moves for quite a while.

equ

09-15-2009, 02:31 PM

I'd be more comfortable spending this if I were also selling the cayman. It might make sense to have one fast sedan instead of cayman + old a4 or whatever, but then again it's a lovely little car that is the best I ever had.

It also may make rational sense to keep it. It's now worth roughly half of a 2010 model that I would order (which would have a tiny bit more hp and a few more bells). But at 20,000 miles, it's barely broken in and equally enjoyable. I certainly don't see myself dropping $70k on a porsche anytime in the foreseeable future.

equ

09-15-2009, 04:57 PM

Plaz, that was one of the all-time best posts I have seen on any forum. Thanks!

Plaz

09-15-2009, 05:14 PM

Plaz, that was one of the all-time best posts I have seen on any forum. Thanks!

:lol: High praise, thanks!

(are you high?)

:D

Aerials

09-16-2009, 04:08 PM

Plaz, that was one of the all-time best posts I have seen on any forum. Thanks!

+1

:D

equ

09-16-2009, 08:18 PM

I called in to cancel... The salesman was initially more polite than I expected, he asked to speak to his manager. He called me back an hour after and they are putting up some resistance. He asked if I needed lease or financing options.. He asked if I wanted to convert it to an a4 order or a pre-owned one (as we are only one week in, the car is nowhere near built, there is not even a commission number). I told them I could potentially look at pre-owned, but they have no manual, sports package inventory.

He said "he'll talk to his manager again" :rolleyes: and get back to me. It's the end of the day, and he hasn't.

ZBB

09-16-2009, 10:09 PM

Call them back tomorrow and ask for a refund on the deposit. Work with them in good faith, but if they don't, then dispute the charge with your card company -- stating that you attempted to cancel the order, but that the vendor refused and that no goods or services were received.

equ

09-16-2009, 10:36 PM

Some resistance is understandable. I would even be allright paying something like a doc fee ($100-200) for their hassle. I did, after all, order a car a week ago. But it's a little funny when in one minute it is "What other car can we offer you?" and the next minute "Well, the deposit is non-refundable as we have placed a special order in the factory for you". It is one or the other, but not both. If they can apply the deposit towards another car, clearly nothing is set in stone. They just have some of my money to play with for a while.

I just wrote my salesman an email saying that I trust they would do the right thing. I don't want to ratchet it up just yet.

Sharp11

09-16-2009, 10:47 PM

Equ,

I think you did the right thing - 50 plus is a lot of money, and the car will just depreciate away.

As you point out, you've got a terrific sports car for summer, spring, fall - for winter, there are any number of inexpensive choices, sure, might not be a BMW or other high end car, but it won't attract attention on the street either.

Just for kicks, type in 30 grand as your top price on cars.com, or autotrader and see what comes up :)

equ

09-17-2009, 10:43 AM

No response, they took 5 minutes to charge and now it's been one day (I think it's the salesman's day off). At this point, their unprofessional behavior is already turning me off a bit. I will give them tomorrow to get it right, I suspect they won't and I'll have to finally mention that I have to escalate (BBB, Audi of America, four different audi forums, credit card dispute, lawyer letter).

Plaz

09-17-2009, 10:45 AM

Good luck!

And congrats, I guess? :dunno:

equ

09-17-2009, 10:55 AM

Nothing to be congratulated here... What's fun about a cancelled order?

I am still thinking about the s4, but it would be in place of not on top of the cayman. I need a bit more time to decide on that (and possibly pick a different color/configuration, most importantly might get drive select in that case). By acting less than nicely, this dealership is shooting their chances on my next purchase.

I could have ordered from anywhere (as the prices are comparable). They happened to give me a good deal on a car on their lot (which I ended up skipping) so I thought I'd be loyal and just stick to these guys.

BahnBaum

09-17-2009, 11:26 AM

Not sure if they'll refund me the $3k deposit (above which non-refundable is handwritten). They really should but I haven't dared ask yet until I make up my mind one way or another.

What do the laws in your state mandate regarding deposits? The fact that it's handwritten on your agreement is pretty much meaningless.

I'd determine what the law requires, and then you can decide whether you want to go beyond that as a nice gesture. If it turns out the law says they get the whole thing, then it's a different negotiation.

Alex

equ

09-18-2009, 03:50 PM

Three days on, still being given the run-around. I'm going to have to go in there and I don't look forward to it.

Not to mention, I am still having thoughts of selling the cayman and going down to just one car, the s4. But I need more time to actually come to terms with that and a bit more time to explore the 330 replacement, used a4 landscape to see if I can score a good one.

equ

09-18-2009, 04:16 PM

Not sure what the law says (not my specialty and I hope not to find out) but the reality is that this car does not exist yet, I haven't cost them anything.

Theo

09-18-2009, 04:58 PM

I had a $1000 deposit down for months before the 135i came out and was first on the list at my dealer. When the demo came in and I got to actually see it and drive it I changed my mind.

The car had already been ordered but there was nothing on it that was to crazy for them not to be able to sell it. Needless to say I got my full deposit back but I had also bought two other cars from them.

equ

09-19-2009, 12:24 PM

Canceled. I went in and spoke to a manager right away and he said fine and referred me to my salesman again who handled the cancel and refund. Opposite to the phone run-around, they were very professional about it once I went there so there was no moment of escalation what so ever. It is very very early on in the order's life so that should not cost any losses (beyond this hassle).

Bummer, I think my config was perfect.

lemming

09-30-2009, 02:24 PM

according to this review, the sport diff does make a (nice) difference.

http://www.autoblog.com/2009/09/28/review-2010-audi-s4-brings-back-the-boost-gives-s-a-reason-f/

Jeff_DML

09-30-2009, 04:04 PM

nice review

lemming

09-30-2009, 04:24 PM

nice review

seems that with the right combo of rear biased AWD plus the trick rear active differential that you could free up a lot of that typical AWD "push" that we all love so much.

:D

09-30-2009, 04:44 PM

They seem to think the MT is not a great match for the drivetrain...

Jeff_DML

09-30-2009, 05:13 PM

They seem to think the MT is not a great match for the drivetrain...

yeah, didnt really say why though, thought they worded it kind of weird too.

wonder if the DSG autoshifts at redline like it does on the GTi.:ack:

lemming

09-30-2009, 06:50 PM

yeah, didnt really say why though, thought they worded it kind of weird too.

wonder if the DSG autoshifts at redline like it does on the GTi.:ack:

quite sure that it does.

equ

09-30-2009, 07:57 PM

The MT is much smoother than the b6/b7 s4 MT. I found that it was no harder than a 330i or 335i, if not better as the clutch is nice & heavy. Not as good as a porsche or honda or the rs4 though. The b7 rs4 is, unbelievably, near honda in perfect shifting.

I have ZERO interest in the s-tronic. Most people love it, and magazine reviewers love it, but they're only pushing very hard if you think about it. Some guy in the UK almost wanted to return his car as he thought it was not smooth enough in traffic. Same with DCT, I have no interest. I think only PDK is really *there*, but even that is low involvement and nasty little buttons.

Jeff_DML

09-30-2009, 08:24 PM

Sharp11

09-30-2009, 10:54 PM

I still dont get the fascination with honda shifters, I have not been impressed with the s2000, rsx-s, and gsr shifters. Miata seems to me the golden standard, nice short shifts.

Not of fan of my bimmer one in the wagon but like it a lot more now with the B@M short shifter. I like my wrx shifter eventhough every review seems to rip on it.

The last S2000 I drove had a particularly nice shifter, but it did feel a bit, um, delicate (relative to my ZHP). What I really disliked in the S2k was the light, short throw of the clutch (although I'm sure I'd get used to it).

I drove an MX5 (nc Miata) a couple of years ago - its shifter was near-perfect, felt solid and just right. I liked the the steering too.

Ed

lupinsea

10-01-2009, 01:54 PM

I'm not too crazy about the ZHP shifter, either. Seems clunky with long throws. It's funny that BMW considers this a short shifter vs. the normal 3 series. It gets the job done and the throws are long enough that it lets the engine drop the right amount of RPM if you're not slow and not fast shifting (just normal shifting).

The Miata was the best shifter I've found so far.

Though, after 3 years of driving the ZHP, it was comical test driving an NC Miata. First time I went to shift it I nearly hurt my wrist as I tried to jam the shift lever forward into 1st. I forgot all it takes is a nice flick instead.