I have found my next car.

[equ]

Perhaps I should have put this in car talk rather than p.a., as I'm not being very true to the spirit of this forum. Over the last week, my thoughts on the recent crop of audis rekindled. Drove a manual a4 2.0t (non-sport) and a 2010 a5 2.0t sport... In the meantime the love for the e90 has been dropping steadily. Great engine on the 330i, but the rest of it sorely bothers me. So far nothing had won me over until...

Until today, when I drove the new s4 (b8 2010).

Very minor niggles aside, it is the most significant sport sedan I've driven in a while (if not in a decade, it is up there with the classics, the e46m3, the v8 m3 and the rs4). It's like an rs4-light. Same nice steering, fantastic grip, heavy controls. So they have directly addressed many of my complaints from the b6 s4 (numb steering, awkward weight distribution being clumsy on bad roads, bad highway mpgs). The clutch is short, heavy and has feel (my gf did not care for the light a4 clutch). The best thing about it is the overall holistic feel. The ride/handling is very well figured out (the way the e90M is much better than the regular e90's).

The interior is gorgeous and the seats are super comfy. The exterior is tasteful, there is a donut in the trunk. Tire sizes are the same all around. Nav has a great screen and decent controls. Bang & Olufsen sounds great and is priced at $850, not exactly robbery.

Niggles:

Color selection.. Having real trouble with this. So far the leading candidates are bright. Imola yellow and sprint blue. Really the latter, but the car on the lot that meets my specs happens to be yellow. Good in FL/CA, but you stick out like a sore thumb in my area. I guess it will be sprint blue. I will pair it with a silver/black interior for a light and cool feel.
Engine sound when revved... Is not that nice. The low revs, regular driving sound is muted but powerful. The high revs sound bad, like kittens being blended. I'm hoping an exhaust will cure it. OTOH, I don't plan for this car to be my sports car, so this is survivable. Perhaps forced induction makes it harder to get a good sound. The rs4/m3 engines are nicer for sure.
Not sure if the epa highway estimate of 26-27mpg is achievable. I got 14-15 on my drive and I wasn't pushing too hard.
Steering under 10-20mph is still too light, but it firms up much better than the previous s4 and crucially current a4/a5's. Finally, it's good enough.
I will lose some minor options like dimming mirrors & memory seats unless I get the top specced package, which I don't to spring for.
3.0T designated supercharged engine's reliability remains to be seen (supercharged)

Regardless of these, it is my next car purchase. The rs4 & m3 both impressed me but this works much better, due to highway range and spare tire. I will take the m3 engine over this one in sound and power delivery by miles, but the rest of it (looks/awd/comfort/spare tire/price) are in the s4's favor. Similarly, the rs4 loses on highway range and overall high weight and worse weight distribution and also no spare. In any case, this car is more directly comparable to 335's and in my opinion has them beat.

After 25 years of trying, audi has finally gotten there. Especially in xi form, bmw's are not really a match. There were two at the dealer's lot that are close to what I want. The yellow that I drove and a blue one. The blue is perfect except it's missing the sports diff. Not sure how important this is (I left it in auto in the test drive of the yellow one) but after reading some reviews after my drive (btw I did not go to the dealer to check out the s4, it was just there) but I'm worried that if I don't get it, some of the good feel will be lost. Not sure, as I don't plan to drive this car too hard, more long and the temptation to get the blue car that is perfectly optioned for me except for the diff is very strong.

At 50-52k this car is good value, in a way the original r32 was. No VAG product since that r32 was this satisfying. Well the rs4 was good, but this is the better daily. The only real reason not to get one is the overkill aspect. I could save money and live with a 2.0T a4 perfectly fine. However, I do feel won over and unless sleeping on it changes things, it is in my future.

[JST]

I will have to check it out--nice review. Of course, I wouldn't get too caught up on the spare thing--now that we have figured out the solution on the e9xs, it really just a simple matter of ordering 300 bucks worth of parts.

[equ]

I have an e90 spare, it still takes up room in the trunk, a pain for ski trips. The e90M spare is a royal pain to assemble, my friend in NYC did not succeed. But yes, I think the m3 is quite awesome (and in some crucial ways, engine, purer rwd handling) better. I actually need the awd in vermont/upstate new york in winters. This car is really positioned against a 335xi (which it kills in all conditions purely on suspension/grip). In dry conditions, the 335i sport is a closer match to it in pure dynamics, but it still not obviously better. Audi dominates the wet/snow and looks/interior for me.

The spare/runflat thing is a big deal. I thought for a while the michelin runflats were better, but now they've gotten hard as well. Booms all around. Also another (my third) bubble. And I can't throw them away, the heavy 162's are part of the 330i. So I'd need a third set of wheels to make this car just right. No, thanks.

[equ]

Some pics: black, sprint blue (the leading contender) and imola yellow.

[Sharp11]

Some pics: black, sprint blue (the leading contender) and imola yellow.

The new convertible iteration is beautiful - and it has a proper soft top ;)

[equ]

Stuka, if I lived in SoCal, I'd go for the imola without hesitation. I don't think it will work well around here.

[FC]

I have an Audi/P-car dealership walking distance from work. I'll have to go test-drive one soon.

Although, as it looks like we may go the nanny route, I may be driving the 987S a whole lot and may not need a sedan for a while

[equ]

Yeah, now that I think about it. If I live where most of you live, I probably would have lost my license a long long time ago with my yellow cars.:lol:

Or carjacked at gunpoint (though you may have safety measures against that, that may or may not escalate the situation)... I live minutes away from some heavy duty areas, though the police is the first concern. I remember speeding along with a yellow evo one day north of NYC on some pretty road (and I must have been in one my bmw's).... Guess who got pulled over.

[John V]

Yeah, now that I think about it. If I live where most of you live, I probably would have lost my license a long long time ago with my yellow cars.:lol:

Hm... I went yellow car -> yellow car -> red car and haven't gotten a ticket... :dunno:

[Josh (PA)]

Can you get it with a proper manual or is it DSG only?

[equ]

Proper manual..

(I reviewed the clutch in my post, but admittedly it was long-winded)

[FC]

I know I'm all alone here, but while it's a sharp enough car, I find the E90 M3 to look better on the outside.

[Josh (PA)]

thanks, I missed the clutch review when I scanned your post and just saw the left it in auto comment for the 2nd car. What is it about the rest of the E90 that sorely bothers you?

[wdc330i]

The new convertible iteration is beautiful - and it has a proper soft top ;)

This has me thinking. I want our next car to be a convertible. But I don't want a hardtop iteration--so no new 3 series convertible. This might be the answer, if we elect to replace the wagon instead of adding to the fleet. If we add, it'll likely be a roadster (Boxster?) or we could get by with a 1 series convertible.

[equ]

I still wouldn't go for an audi 'vert. My favorite open tops are:
- miata/s2000
- boxster
- m3 'vert (at the GT/$$$ end of the spectrum).

I don't really see the point of a quattro 'vert. Part of the joy of audi ownership is getting through storms and winter. But a 'vert adds weight, might as well be rwd.

[wdc330i]

Of course, I agree with you. But if a convertible replaces a family hauler, it may need to be more practical than a convertible should be.

[FC]

Of course, I agree with you. But if a convertible replaces a family hauler, it may need to be more practical than a convertible should be.

Do what I almost did...

http://www.performancecars.ca/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/jeep/models/jeep_wrangler_unlimited/photos/jeep_wrangler/5353-1-eng-US/jeep_wrangler_fullscreen.jpg

;)

[lupinsea]

Do what I almost did...

http://www.performancecars.ca/var/ezwebin_site/storage/images/jeep/models/jeep_wrangler_unlimited/photos/jeep_wrangler/5353-1-eng-US/jeep_wrangler_fullscreen.jpg

;)

:woot:

Those 4-doors really have me rethinking the post-ZHP era at the Lupinsea house. I'm still pretty much decided on a used MX-5 (or sport / sporty car) and keeping my current Jeep.

But . . .

. . . having the 4-door would be sweet for the extra space and hauling the whole family, and the family convertibleness.

The only problem I see is that for day trips my 2-door TJ would work for hauling the family (me, wife, son, dog). There'd be a miniscule amount of space behind the rear seat for any day-trippy-type items (lunch, small soft sided cooler, etc.). But in a pinch we could do it (heck, we used my Jeep this winter to haul the family around, with a car seat strapped down in the back, too). So, it'd be tight but doable. . . sort of like a MINI or other 3-door hatchback, but convertible and with 4WD.

So the only point to the 4-door for me is if my wife would be joining my son and I on extended, multi-day camping / Jeep trips. And I don't see that likely happening at this point . . . too dusty, too bouncy, too far from a daily shower. :D

Hmph.

Anyways, I "could" pick up a used JK in a few years for probably about what a used MX-5 will run, Rubicon edition an all. The sale of my TJ would probably easily pay for any upgrades to suspension and tires that I'd want.

Hmm...

I'll probably still get the MX-5 and keep my Jeep. But . . .

[IndyMike]

I'd also opt for the M3. Le Mans blue.

But if your heart is set on it I think the Sprint blue is a pretty cool color.

Although having 3 blues mobiles in the stable I'm admittedly more than a bit biased.

[FC]

:woot:

Those 4-doors really have me rethinking the post-ZHP era at the Lupinsea house. I'm still pretty much decided on a used MX-5 (or sport / sporty car) and keeping my current Jeep.

But . . .

. . . having the 4-door would be sweet for the extra space and hauling the whole family, and the family convertibleness.

The only problem I see is that for day trips my 2-door TJ would work for hauling the family (me, wife, son, dog). There'd be a miniscule amount of space behind the rear seat for any day-trippy-type items (lunch, small soft sided cooler, etc.). But in a pinch we could do it (heck, we used my Jeep this winter to haul the family around, with a car seat strapped down in the back, too). So, it'd be tight but doable. . . sort of like a MINI or other 3-door hatchback, but convertible and with 4WD.

So the only point to the 4-door for me is if my wife would be joining my son and I on extended, multi-day camping / Jeep trips. And I don't see that likely happening at this point . . . too dusty, too bouncy, too far from a daily shower. :D

Hmph.

Anyways, I "could" pick up a used JK in a few years for probably about what a used MX-5 will run, Rubicon edition an all. The sale of my TJ would probably easily pay for any upgrades to suspension and tires that I'd want.

Hmm...

I'll probably still get the MX-5 and keep my Jeep. But . . .

I'd love to keep a sporty family wagon (doesn't seem to exist so may have to settle for sedan) and replace the JGC with a used JK in a few years for the same kind of crap duty. But I need to find that mythical wagon, otherwise it will be a modern SUV as a family car and buh-bye JK.

I did an oil change on the V70R yesterday and it actually just barely rubbed on the rhino ramps. What kind of wagon can't clear rhino ramps?! Anyway, that will be my test from now on. Whatever wagon we look at has to clear the rhino ramp that I will bring along by at LEAST a couple of inches. Why do they put all this suspension raising systems on already tallish SUV's that will never leave the pavement and they don't bother putting it on premium wagons? I'm sure there is something I'm missing besides the cost.

I just want a stickshift allroad. Is that too much to ask?

[lupinsea]

With the Jeep I don't need to bother with ramps. . . just kneel down next to the rig and reach under. . . don't even have to get under it to reach the drain plug.

With the ZHP I build my own ramps out of layed 2x10 planks. They had a special keyed block as a wheel chock once the car was up on the ramps. Cost about $50.

I did this partly because the "normal" ramps wouldn't work right. . . the plastic insert popped up once and tore off the front bumper of the ZHP.


http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/.Pictures/BMW%20Ramp%20Photos/01%20Ramp%20Diagram.jpg



Click here for more picture on how to build it. (http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/photoarchive/PhotoAlbum195.html)



.

[John V]

I'd love to keep a sporty family wagon (doesn't seem to exist so may have to settle for sedan) and replace the JGC with a used JK in a few years for the same kind of crap duty. But I need to find that mythical wagon, otherwise it will be a modern SUV as a family car and buh-bye JK.

I did an oil change on the V70R yesterday and it actually just barely rubbed on the rhino ramps. What kind of wagon can't clear rhino ramps?! Anyway, that will be my test from now on. Whatever wagon we look at has to clear the rhino ramp that I will bring along by at LEAST a couple of inches. Why do they put all this suspension raising systems on already tallish SUV's that will never leave the pavement and they don't bother putting it on premium wagons? I'm sure there is something I'm missing besides the cost.

I just want a stickshift allroad. Is that too much to ask?

THAT would make you not buy a car? :eek:

Just get yourself a brick. Put the brick in front of the ramp. Drive right on. 's what I do with the vette.

[FC]

THAT would make you not buy a car? :eek:

Just get yourself a brick. Put the brick in front of the ramp. Drive right on. 's what I do with the vette.

Hell no. It just shows how lame the car is for NE ramps, driveways, etc. The other day, a freaking moving truck got stuck going up a steep driveway because it essentially did not have a high enough departure angle. I got stuck for 15 minutes until cops arrived and moved traffic around.

I don't mind being careful with the sports car, but I should not have to worry about that stuff with the family/winter car. The front bomper of the R is beat to hell and the expensive intercooler is right there hanging down like a goatee. In the winter, ice build up exactly at the bottom of ramps due to improperly cleaned (if at all) plow mounds. Most people drive over them with SUVs and pack them down and they turn into ice.

Like I said, I never had a problem with my 190E, or my parents taurus, etc. So it's not as if all wagons are out. But the R really does suck at this.

[John V]

You're the one that bought it. :neener:

[John V]

Click here for more picture on how to build it. (http://homepage.mac.com/jgreening/photoarchive/PhotoAlbum195.html)

Building stuff is fun, but these were < $40 at Walmart a few years back, plus they're way lighter than wood ramps.

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/rhino-ramps.jpg

[FC]

You're the one that bought it. :neener:

Yes. I know. That was big issue that I remember mentioning to my wife. After all, I already owned the ZHP, a car I already had to be VERY careful with despite the very short front overhang,

So yes. That failed. :o

OTOH, the fact that it has been 3 months and I already am having withrawals from not driving a stickshift enough doesn't bode well for the curretn setup to last very long. Even if we go the nanny route and I get to drive the 987 basically daily, there will be a 3 month period where I will not have ANY stickshift car available. That will make me nuts. I will have to learn to survive this winter, but I don't know that I'll be able to put up with that for many years.

[FC]

Building stuff is fun, but these were < $40 at Walmart a few years back, plus they're way lighter than wood ramps.

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/rhino-ramps.jpg

Those are the rhino ramps I have. At least they look identical except they are black.

[equ]

Holy threadjack....

(J/K, I don't mind, and do it all the time myself.)

[lupinsea]

Building stuff is fun, but these were < $40 at Walmart a few years back, plus they're way lighter than wood ramps.

http://www.tundraheadquarters.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/rhino-ramps.jpg

The angle on those is too steep for my ZHP.

And the lumber for the ramps was <$40, too. :)

But, yes, those would be way lighter than wood ramps.


I gotta learn to weld aluminum some time . . .

[John V]

The angle is too much for my (lowered) 'vette also, but a brick or a 6" long section of 2x4 cures that problem pretty easily. :)

[TD]

I have found that often around here, if you miss checking in to a thread for a day (or even half a day) it ends up in a totally different place.

[lupinsea]

We're just trying to keep things exciting and unpredictable. :)

[lemming]

did you get the car or order one????

:dunno:

[equ]

Nothing yet... Just shopping around, and the usual second thoughts finally hitting me.

I didn't impulsively buy it that day, but I did impulsively put my 330i for sale on a few forums. And it "went" in under 24hrs. The buyer is supposed to come tomorrow, if test drive and inspection go well, that's it, no more e90. I still don't have an s4 yet.

There are white ones around but they are super optioned-up, $58k msrp or so... What I'm looking for is basic + nav + b&olufsen + sport diff = low 50's, and it's looking like I have to order it unless I skip the sport differential...

[SARAFIL]

Nothing yet... Just shopping around, and the usual second thoughts finally hitting me.

I didn't impulsively buy it that day, but I did impulsively put my 330i for sale on a few forums. And it "went" in under 24hrs. The buyer is supposed to come tomorrow, if test drive and inspection go well, that's it, no more e90. I still don't have an s4 yet.

There are white ones around but they are super optioned-up, $58k msrp or so... What I'm looking for is basic + nav + b&olufsen + sport diff = low 50's, and it's looking like I have to order it unless I skip the sport differential...


Is white definitely the color you want?

Not sure how hard they are to find, but I found a Phantom Black one in RI that is $51,600. Not sure the options, just says Manual Premium Plus, but I could find out on Tuesday for you?

[equ]

No white is not definite. Not so hot on black though after the black sapphire.

e90 is sold. There is a big gaping hole in the garage.

[lemming]

No white is not definite. Not so hot on black though after the black sapphire.

e90 is sold. There is a big gaping hole in the garage.

good riddance.

:)

now on to other matters.

[equ]

Fil, I have a question. Do dealers ever do short term car leases? Say I order a car from you, it's going to arrive in 3-4 months. Will/could you lease me a car (say a used one on your lot) for that time period? I believe this is done in Europe, haven't heard of it in the states though. It turns out with my brother coming over, this is perhaps the first time that I actually need an extra car. He is going to be here for precisely the three months it will take to wait for an ordered car.

I have spoken to several dealers. It seems that there are quite a few s4 arrivals, but they are mostly launch cars that are one way or another. One guy I'm working with hasn't produced anything on the searches I've been pushing him to do.

The msrp is $46725 (with destination). Most cars have nav ($2500) and some other minor options so they end up in the low 50's, this is about where I would be if I ordered. The problem is the sport differential, the only cars that I have seen with this option are
1. a yellow one (perfectly specified otherwise but no can do)
2. two white clones, optioned up the wazoo to $58675 (not only the cost, but complex adaptive suspension and side assist radar that may interfere with my valentine detector)

So I'm at square 1, really.

If someone you know can do a search, I'd be interested. Here are the musts:
- manual
- nav
- bang & olufsen
- sport differential

I prefer the lower spec premium plus, but could do prestige if necessary (that comes with nav & b&o among other things).

At this point, must nots:
- audi drive select
- driver assist

Not into black/silver/red/yellow. Could do white/blue/quartz gray. Most interiors are fine.

For cars on the lot, I've been offered 1.5k off msrp without trying very hard, so that's roughly what I'm hoping for, perhaps it will be harder to do with a swap. I would prefer to buy in the next week.

[SARAFIL]

Fil, I have a question. Do dealers ever do short term car leases? Say I order a car from you, it's going to arrive in 3-4 months. Will/could you lease me a car (say a used one on your lot) for that time period? I believe this is done in Europe, haven't heard of it in the states though. It turns out with my brother coming over, this is perhaps the first time that I actually need an extra car. He is going to be here for precisely the three months it will take to wait for an ordered car.

.....

For cars on the lot, I've been offered 1.5k off msrp without trying very hard, so that's roughly what I'm hoping for, perhaps it will be harder to do with a swap. I would prefer to buy in the next week.

No short term leases. Occasionally they can arrange a loaner or something for a week or two, but there are few options when it drags out to months.

One option might be to buy a beater off craigslist or something like that, and trade it in when the Audi arrives. If you buy it cheap enough, you can probably trade it without losing much.

I just emailed your specs to my friend at Audi and I'll see if he can find anything that might work.

[ZBB]

you might also check with Hertz on a long-term rental.

A friend of mine had the same Hertz car for close to a year, and the monthly rental charge was reasonable. He went into it knowing he'd have it for at least 6 months, and Hertz gave him a significant discount... The payment wasn't that much different than a car payment...

[equ]

I went back to my original dealer just now. They have a good handful of the launch cars on the lot and nothing has sold. They gave me a decent deal on the sprint blue/silver black/nav/b&o/carbon car on the lot. They'll also do a decent deal on an ordered one, they found nothing built in the system.

I'm beginning to think I might not need this sport diff thing. I have a separate rwd car anyway, how much tail out driving will I do in the s4? It's meant to be a quiet, powerful, all-year cruiser.

I've thought about the short leases & rentals ($$) and came to the opinion that if my brother needs a car badly, I can just do craigslist for him and use my honda/bmw/subaru mudgeon-ness and get him a beater for a few months.

[equ]

So now I'm in the gut wrenching stage just before pulling the trigger. Three years ago I went through this hour-by-hour on this forum trying decide between two caymans on the lot (atlas gray vs. white).

Now it's the sport diff on the s4. I've done some test drives, but haven't gotten a chance to really feel it and try it out. I'm getting a very decent deal for the car that's here, which is spec'ed close to what I would order except it doesn't have the sport diff.

If I order, it'll be three months and an extra few K (sport diff is only $1100 but the deal is worse).

I know I am lucky to have these two good choices on a great car, but it still can be gut-wrenching, sleep-inhibiting. FYI, here's a video of the car and it is possible that the sport diff is showing up in the video. Then again, at the 2009 Q5 launch drive I could get that suv to be a bit drifty and loose and almost fun. How much of this can be driven around? I'm not sure.

If I am definitely keeping the cayman or some other rwd sports car, then sure, I'll likely never *need* the sport diff. But what if I go down to one car? My industry is looking bleak. I'm really confused.

[equ]

Here's a video of the car... Not sure how much of the sport diff can be compensated by driving style.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2762305

The sport diff supposedly has a mode that feeds power to the outside rear, helping rotation.

[JST]

Here's a video of the car... Not sure how much of the sport diff can be compensated by driving style.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2762305

The sport diff supposedly has a mode that feeds power to the outside rear, helping rotation.

So, the sport diff is like the "Super Handling" system in the Acuras and the X6? Is the standard diff limited slip, or just a normal differential with traction control?

[zach]

So now I'm in the gut wrenching stage just before pulling the trigger. Three years ago I went through this hour-by-hour on this forum trying decide between two caymans on the lot (atlas gray vs. white).

Now it's the sport diff on the s4. I've done some test drives, but haven't gotten a chance to really feel it and try it out. I'm getting a very decent deal for the car that's here, which is spec'ed close to what I would order except it doesn't have the sport diff.

If I order, it'll be three months and an extra few K (sport diff is only $1100 but the deal is worse).

I know I am lucky to have these two good choices on a great car, but it still can be gut-wrenching, sleep-inhibiting. FYI, here's a video of the car and it is possible that the sport diff is showing up in the video. Then again, at the 2009 Q5 launch drive I could get that suv to be a bit drifty and loose and almost fun. How much of this can be driven around? I'm not sure.

If I am definitely keeping the cayman or some other rwd sports car, then sure, I'll likely never *need* the sport diff. But what if I go down to one car? My industry is looking bleak. I'm really confused.

Admittedly, I buy cars less frequently than you (and most other carmudgeons).

With that in mind, the vibe I get from your post is that there is a chance that you might regret not waiting and getting exactly what you want. You love the S4 - I think you should get exactly what you want even if it means waiting.

[wdc330i]

Agreed. Wait for what you want. How about a Zipcar for your bro?

[lemming]

Here's a video of the car... Not sure how much of the sport diff can be compensated by driving style.

http://forums.audiworld.com/showthread.php?t=2762305

The sport diff supposedly has a mode that feeds power to the outside rear, helping rotation.

i'd wait for it.

AWDers tend to push anyway, and anything that helps is a good thing.

i'd argue the monetary difference is minimal and to get the car you want, ultimately, means a lot and saves a lot of money on the back end (early trade-in because you're not happy).

[equ]

Agreed, I just called and cancelled this evening's planned transaction. I had the check, my ez-pass everything with me here at work, but after thinking it over, I'm not going to go without the diff. Perhaps it will never be of use, but anything that helps cornering has to be good to Lem's point.

[zach]

Agreed, I just called and cancelled this evening's planned transaction. I had the check, my ez-pass everything with me here at work, but after thinking it over, I'm not going to go without the diff. Perhaps it will never be of use, but anything that helps cornering has to be good to Lem's point.

I think you made the right choice. :)

[Rob]

I don't understand people that will plunk down 50 large for a car that is "almost" what they want. Order it. Wait. Let anticipation build. Love it until you sell it.

As for the ordering delay and all that, find your local rent a wreck and tell your brother to be happy he has something to drive.

[Rob]

I let this go before in light of the thread jack, but since there is a new thead . . .

I did an oil change on the V70R yesterday and it actually just barely rubbed on the rhino ramps. What kind of wagon can't clear rhino ramps?! Anyway, that will be my test from now on. Whatever wagon we look at has to clear the rhino ramp that I will bring along by at LEAST a couple of inches. Why do they put all this suspension raising systems on already tallish SUV's that will never leave the pavement and they don't bother putting it on premium wagons? I'm sure there is something I'm missing besides the cost.

I just want a stickshift allroad. Is that too much to ask?

You didn't buy a frikin SUV. You bought a big car with a lot of goodies that were designed to make the car handle better, stop faster repeatedly, go faster, and handle better. Part of the trick of handling better is low center of gravity. The car is low. It's supposed to be low. Use a 2x4 to get on the ramp. Just like you did with that 330. You know - the four door sedan that handled well.

Sheesh.

[3LOU5]

You didn't buy a frikin SUV. You bought a big car with a lot of goodies that were designed to make the car handle better, stop faster repeatedly, go faster, and handle better. Part of the trick of handling better is low center of gravity. The car is low. It's supposed to be low. Use a 2x4 to get on the ramp. Just like you did with that 330. You know - the four door sedan that handled well.

Sheesh.

Gee Rob, your curmudgeon-like qualities seem to be escalating to epic proportions. :lol:

[FC]

You didn't buy a frikin SUV. You bought a big car with a lot of goodies that were designed to make the car handle better, stop faster repeatedly, go faster, and handle better. Part of the trick of handling better is low center of gravity. The car is low. It's supposed to be low. Use a 2x4 to get on the ramp. Just like you did with that 330. You know - the four door sedan that handled well.

Sheesh.

I love that wagon (except for the transmisson) 95% of the time. Now that we have the old JGC, I have no problems with it at all.

[Rob]

It just struck me as funny. You take this incredible car (for a wagon) - lots of power, decent handling, room to haul three apartments worth of stuff - and ask why it isn't like an suv? The whole point of that car was to be as anti SUV as possible while maintaining its enormous cargo capabilities. If you want an SUV, buy an SUV. (Which is what FC did of course).

All things being equal, even the "special" V70 can't compare with the mini van for us (we do have two shepherds after all). But in a slightly different world, I would have bought that wagon in a heartbeat for what it is, not for what it isn't. Of course, seeing FC's reaction to how it compares with cars that really do perform well, it might not be as great as it looked on paper. But it sure looks a lot better than any other wagon out there. Complainging that its low (you know, so you can have that improved handling) just struck me as funny.

[FC]

It just struck me as funny. You take this incredible car (for a wagon) - lots of power, decent handling, room to haul three apartments worth of stuff - and ask why it isn't like an suv? The whole point of that car was to be as anti SUV as possible while maintaining its enormous cargo capabilities. If you want an SUV, buy an SUV. (Which is what FC did of course).

All things being equal, even the "special" V70 can't compare with the mini van for us (we do have two shepherds after all). But in a slightly different world, I would have bought that wagon in a heartbeat for what it is, not for what it isn't. Of course, seeing FC's reaction to how it compares with cars that really do perform well, it might not be as great as it looked on paper. But it sure looks a lot better than any other wagon out there. Complainging that its low (you know, so you can have that improved handling) just struck me as funny.


I understand. And there is a good reason why I bought it. I also wrote in my review how I much rather have it than a 535xiT. If it werent for the long front overhang coupled with the location of the intercooler in New England roads, I would bitch a whole lot less. The JGC was bought specificy to compliment the few times when the wagon is not so great. So like I said, I have very few issues with it now, other than both it and the GC are slushies.

[Jeff_DML]

my wagon doesnt make it up the rino ramps, need to try out the 2x4 trick