View Full Version : Tire advice urgently needed
This is odd.
Some of you may recall me bitching about the flat spots on the Bridgestone S-03s I inherited from a generous board member. I had them installed on the front wheels of my M3 along with brand new rear S-03s last year and immediately felt a strong vibration. Upon further review, I determined that the donated (not new) tires weren't round.
Well, I never did anything about it and the symptoms seemed to go away. So I quit worrying about it.
ThenI got my car aligned yesterday and the vibration is back. Bad. And when I jacked up the car tonight to investigate, one spin of the wheel and I could see exactly what I could last year.
Now the fronts are almost to the wear bars (the rears still look like they have about 5K to go until they get to their wear bars) and I've decided that I will go insane driving on these tires much longer. I tired of the tramlining characteristics of the S-03s some time ago so I'm ready to make a switch.
I need advice.
Here's what I'm looking for:
- VERY sticky
- STIFF sidewall (I want crisp turn-in and a firm ride)
- As little tramlining as possible
- Decent water evacuation
What I don't care about:
- Stylish tread pattern
- Price (to a point)
- Wear characteristics
- Noise
Since a few of you guys practically live at Radial Tire, I figure this is a good place to start.
I am very, VERY pleased with my PS2s. I can't say enough good things about thems. I've even auto-xed on them (once) and they were sticky as hell.
They also have superb wet traction/
They are cheaper than the S-03s too.
I am also very pleased with the PS2s. They have more cornering ability than I do. I wouldn't know about water evacuation, but I hear they are good at that too.
This is odd.
Some of you may recall me bitching about the flat spots on the Bridgestone S-03s I inherited from a generous board member. I had them installed on the front wheels of my M3 along with brand new rear S-03s last year and immediately felt a strong vibration. Upon further review, I determined that the donated (not new) tires weren't round.
Well, I never did anything about it and the symptoms seemed to go away. So I quit worrying about it.
ThenI got my car aligned yesterday and the vibration is back. Bad. And when I jacked up the car tonight to investigate, one spin of the wheel and I could see exactly what I could last year.
Now the fronts are almost to the wear bars (the rears still look like they have about 5K to go until they get to their wear bars) and I've decided that I will go insane driving on these tires much longer. I tired of the tramlining characteristics of the S-03s some time ago so I'm ready to make a switch.
I need advice.
Here's what I'm looking for:
- VERY sticky
- STIFF sidewall (I want crisp turn-in and a firm ride)
- As little tramlining as possible
- Decent water evacuation
What I don't care about:
- Stylish tread pattern
- Price (to a point)
- Wear characteristics
- Noise
Since a few of you guys practically live at Radial Tire, I figure this is a good place to start.
I think PS2s are going to be a good bet, though I've never driven on them.
Honestly, I love the T1-S Proxes. It does not have the massively strong sidewall that you describe, but turn-in is still decently crisp, and it has great grip. Even though you are not price-sensitive, it's nice that they are cheap, as well. It's great in the rain (far better than either the Contis, Sumitomos, or Pilot Sports), and it does not tramline at all.
EDIT: If you come out to Rosecroft early on Sunday, you can try them.
I've heard good things about Proxes, especially compared against the OEM Pilot Sports. I don't know that they're the best that money can buy, but they are consistently lauded for being an excellent tire at a good price.
clyde
08-11-2004, 09:27 PM
Toyo RA-1 :p
I was going to say the same thing. :D
the one negative i have of the T1-S is the soft sidewall.
but this is on 205/50/16s on the MINI.
clyde
08-11-2004, 09:29 PM
Toyo RA-1 :p
I was going to say the same thing. :D
Actually, if you can live with the sizing, Azenis may be a good choice and you can't argue with the pricing.
Nick M3
08-11-2004, 09:35 PM
Toyo RA-1s are also my recommendation. And they have unbelievable straightline traction, which is just weird in an R-tire.
PS2, and then Eagle F1's.
Masskrug
08-12-2004, 01:17 AM
Another vote for the PS2's here. I got them at Costco, where they were cheaper than Tire Rack. Since then, Tire Rack has dropped their prices.
They have fantastic grip wet and dry, stiff and crisp sidewalls, great compliance, and quiet performance so far. I don't know how Michelin accomplished all these qualities, as they would seem mutually exclusive to me.
I wonder how the RA1 will handle colder winter temps?
I wonder how the RA1 will handle colder winter temps?
I don't know. Clyde and Nick mocked me for choosing the T1-S over the RA-1 as a street tire in part because of my need to use the tires year round (including the cold and very occasional snow). They think, perhaps rightly, that the T1-S is going to be just as bad as the RA-1 in the cold. The only thing I can go by is that the RA-1 includes a special disclaimer about use in cold temps that the T1-S doesn't--Toyo's lawyers must have a reason for that.
Okay guys, let's get back on topic.
I looked up the two Toyos. The only online site I found them at that had reviews was 1010tires.com. The disclaimer that goes along with the RA-1s is a bit intimidating. Since the car *might* see snow with these tires on, I think these tires are out of the question (they're not exactly cheap either).
The reviews at 1010tires.com for the T1-s did contain a few references to the sidewall not being all that stiff. So that only adds to JST's observation. And, again, that brings me close to ruling them out.
Otherwise, here and at the Fest, I've received a number of recommendations for the PS2.
Thoughts? Known negatives (besides price)?
I have yet to see a negative review of the PS2 on any forum.
I doubt the RA1, T1S or any "performance" tire is going to do very well in even light slush or cold temps. TD, didn't you try the S03 in snow last year?
The S-03s in snow are just laughable.
I have left the M3 at home on days when snow is in the forecast. But I'd like to feel that I could get home from work in the M3 should an unexpected snow occur assuming I get on the road right as it's starting. That's currently not a safe bet with the S-03s.
For comparison, the Dunlop 2020Es on my wife's car, while being summer performance tires, do halfway decent int he snow. As do the Dunlop FM-901s on the Saab. (Yes, all three cars are running summer tires.)
I have yet to see a negative review of the PS2 on any forum.
I doubt the RA1, T1S or any "performance" tire is going to do very well in even light slush or cold temps. TD, didn't you try the S03 in snow last year?
There is definite variability. I thought that the Contis were actually pretty good in the snow, for a summer performance tire. The (original) Pilot Sports were noticeably less good than the Conti, but I think TD has experience with those in the snow. I have yet to try the T1-Ss in the snow, so I don't know about those.
When snow is in the forecast, I also try and leave the M3 at home. However, it just doesn't snow enough (or even really get cold enough for long enough) in DC to justify the cost and inconvenience of a separate set of snow tires, *especially* since I've got an AWD wagon with all seasons as my other car. I need tires that will not be completely useless if I get trapped at work in an unexpected snow.
Nick M3
08-12-2004, 10:29 AM
Note that Paul discounted $100 from 1010tires' prices for me. While you might not get quite that nice a price on them, you'll do a lot better than that.
I think they're one of the nicest street tires I've ever driven on. :p
The S-03s in snow are just laughable.
I have left the M3 at home on days when snow is in the forecast. But I'd like to feel that I could get home from work in the M3 should an unexpected snow occur assuming I get on the road right as it's starting. That's currently not a safe bet with the S-03s.
For comparison, the Dunlop 2020Es on my wife's car, while being summer performance tires, do halfway decent int he snow. As do the Dunlop FM-901s on the Saab. (Yes, all three cars are running summer tires.)
I would assume any ultra performance tire would react to cold and snow like the S03. The fact that the other 2 tires are lower grade performance tires might be telling of some difference in the compound or I guess it could just be something in Dunlop's compound.
Note that Paul discounted $100 from 1010tires' prices for me. While you might not get quite that nice a price on them, you'll do a lot better than that.
I think they're one of the nicest street tires I've ever driven on. :p
The RA1 prices I was quoted from a source closely related to Paul was $60 less than 1010tires. But this still doesn't fix the fact that they are more likely than not useless when the temps get down into the 40's and below.
I am probably going to replace my tires with the Pilot A/S when the time comes. They have the same tread pattern as the original Pilot but with some siping to help in foul weather.
Nick M3
08-12-2004, 10:40 AM
Note that Paul discounted $100 from 1010tires' prices for me. While you might not get quite that nice a price on them, you'll do a lot better than that.
I think they're one of the nicest street tires I've ever driven on. :p
The RA1 prices I was quoted from a source closely related to Paul was $60 less than 1010tires. But this still doesn't fix the fact that they are more likely than not useless when the temps get down into the 40's and below.
I am probably going to replace my tires with the Pilot A/S when the time comes. They have the same tread pattern as the original Pilot but with some siping to help in foul weather.I kind of liked the fact that I could power slide my wagon on S-03s any time the weather got below freezing. Given that all performance tires are rocks in the cold, I just don't see any reason to worry about it. :p
Oh yeah, and all seasons are for losers. :twisted:
Note that Paul discounted $100 from 1010tires' prices for me. While you might not get quite that nice a price on them, you'll do a lot better than that.
I think they're one of the nicest street tires I've ever driven on. :p
You finally got your wheels?
A better question would be: Have you cancelled the original wheels and placed the order for the other wheels yet?
Radial quoted me $183/ea for the PS2s (fronts - 225/45/17). Plus $13 for install. So $196 ea installed.
Tirerack lists them for $166 on special. Granted a typical shop installing outside tires charges at least $25 per. And then there's shipping.
Still, this price doesn't seem THAT good.
But they are in stock.
Oh yeah, and all seasons are for losers.
I really think the Pilot A/S should be on TD's list...so long as he can get over the stigma of an A/S tire.
Radial quoted me ...
He can correct me if I'm wrong but I think Nick was talking about pricing for the RA1...
And damn, prices for 17" tires are sooo much less than for 18's :(
Nick was. My post is independent of Nick except to get yours and Nick's sense of whether that was a decent price compared to what TireRack is charging. They only took something like $10 off list.
I should have said that Nick and I were talking about RA1 prices.
A while back I was told by NTB that they will match TireRack plus 10% which, in this case, looks to be about what Radial is charging.
Radial quoted me ...
He can correct me if I'm wrong but I think Nick was talking about pricing for the RA1...
And damn, prices for 17" tires are sooo much less than for 18's :(
Actually, what I paid for 18" T1Ss is about what they quoted TD for 17" PS2s.
Wow, the RA1 is almost $100 more in 18"
Masskrug
08-12-2004, 12:43 PM
Here's what I'm looking for:
- VERY sticky
- STIFF sidewall (I want crisp turn-in and a firm ride)
- As little tramlining as possible
- Decent water evacuation
What I don't care about:
- Stylish tread pattern
- Price (to a point)
- Wear characteristics
- Noise
Well, according to your criteria, the PS2 doesn't have any known flaws. I'd bring up potential early wear issues, but that is on your don't care list.
Otherwise it hits all your 'care' issues. It is a little pricey though.
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