Interim solution?

[clyde]

The plan (please don't tell me that FC is rubbing off on me) has been to sell the Armada for a while now. I have a buyer and I'm just waiting for him to get the money together. I was going to "buy" my brother's 1991 Miata and have that shipped out here to drive until I decide on and find the car I want (G8 GXP, Charger SRT-8, 370Z, Camaro, Mustang, etc). While the cost of shipping the Miata is probably a couple hundred bucks more than what it's worth, my brother is the original owner and with 110k on it, it's never had any issues.

Then I got a call from my dad last night. A friend of his is selling a 6M 1999 Corvette. Skipping the details of why I believe it to be so, the car is probably as perfect as a Corvette can be. It has about 40kish miles on it and I can probably buy it for under $14k.

I'm waiting to get a list of the RPO codes (all I know is that it's a six speed), but I know that it's not *the* car I want. But I think it could be a more enjoyable temporary solution than the Miata (which I'd probably still buy even if I buy this vette, too). My dad tells me that if I want to sell the vette within 18 months of buying it, he'll buy it for whatever I wind up paying for it...if the current seller and the original owner pass on buying it back (the three of them all used to work together which feeds into knowing the car's history).

Does anyone see a downside to this that I'm not seeing?

[ff]

No longer need a tow vehicle?

If it were me, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't like the idea of spending the money to ship a car, when the shipping costs are more than the car's worth. Particularity when it's just a temporary thing. If you were going to keep it for a few years, then maybe.

knee-jerk reaction >> Is a '99 Corvette still worth 14K? That much?

[BahnBaum]

Does anyone see a downside to this that I'm not seeing?

No.

Alex

[SARAFIL]

I was going to "buy" my brother's 1991 Miata and have that shipped out here to drive until I decide on and find the car I want (G8 GXP, Charger SRT-8, 370Z, Camaro, Mustang, etc). While the cost of shipping the Miata is probably a couple hundred bucks more than what it's worth, my brother is the original owner and with 110k on it, it's never had any issues.

not to go OT... but you'd be surprised what a car like that is worth if it is clean with no stories. I just took a 1991 with 96k miles in trade for book value, thought I paid a bit too much for it, and I was shocked to see it sell at auction for almost twice what I took it in for. :eek: Part of it is seasonality, part of it is that book values are not that relevant on a car like this (kind of like how even to this day clean E30's sell for crazy amounts of money).

[FC]

No.

Alex

:+1

P.S. :p

[Mr. The Edge]

Does this idea seamlessly mesh with your projected car ownership plan for 2016?

[clyde]

No longer need a tow vehicle?

Not in the forseeable future. If/when that changes, I'd buy something better for towing (3/4 ton, higher payload, etc)

If it were me, I'm pretty sure that I wouldn't like the idea of spending the money to ship a car, when the shipping costs are more than the car's worth. Particularity when it's just a temporary thing. If you were going to keep it for a few years, then maybe.

The Miata would be "bought" for a dollar. It's worth maybe $500. Shipping looks like it will run about $700ish. It's mechanically sound, but the paint is awful and the interior is showing 18 years of being in the sun with the top down a lot. I'd still want the Miata to use as a beater on the four days of snow or ice we might get in any given winter, to use as a convertible a few times during the summer, and use for my commute to the subway when I'm running late and know that I won't be able to get a covered parking spot. So, the Miata would be long term.

The Vette would probably run about the same to ship. I'd only pay the shipping one way (if one of them buys it back, they'd pay to ship it back to San Diego).

knee-jerk reaction >> Is a '99 Corvette still worth 14K? That much?

It would probably sell for $15-$17k if he put it on autotrader. It's on the low mileage side and I know that it has been well cared for. The original owner and second owner (seller) are fanatical about maintenance and cosmetics to the extent that they may put John V and Rob to shame. I just don't know how to describe it...it's unreal. The big plus is my dad saying that he'd buy it for what I pay for it. If I don't buy it now, he probably will.

[clyde]

Does this idea seamlessly mesh with your projected car ownership plan for 2016?

Let me check with FC...

[John V]

I see no downside to buying the Vette.

I don't think you want to lump me in with Rob when it comes to cosmetics. Maintenance, probably... but have you seen the Altima? Heck, Rob would sh!t the bed if he saw the cosmetic condition of the Z06.

And I want the Miata. But I'd fly out and drive it back ;)

[Melissa]

Sounds like a good plan to me, especially with your Dad's offer to buy.

[lupinsea]

The Miata would be "bought" for a dollar. It's worth maybe $500. Shipping looks like it will run about $700ish. It's mechanically sound, but the paint is awful and the interior is showing 18 years of being in the sun with the top down a lot

The only problem I have with any of this is the fact you pointed out that 1991 was 18 years ago. I was blissfully not really thinking of that fact at all until you mentioned it. :ack:


Seems like you'd have two fun cars on your hands. Seems also like potentially more upkeep / maintenance on cars that aren't what you really want. The Maita for ~$700ish seems cool but would probably require some TLC but probably mostly just for the top and perhaps some consumables, and the paint job if you cared that much.

The 'Vette seems to be in near pristine condition but also costs much more. Though this is almost a moot point if you dad buys the car for what you'd pay for it.

[Rob]

Rob is available for:

Inspections

Test drives

Pre-ship detailing services (I am not kidding - you want great wax on the 'vette before you ship it)

Joy riding

Driving either of them part of the way across the country with enough prior warning.

Seriously, shipping an 18 year old miata across the country is nuts. But driving it across the country is nutser. Have you looked around at all to see what's local?

Oh, and I am getting better about the appearance nuerosis. It has to do with having kids, I think. Sometimes I can go a whole week or two after a rain before I wash it. And wax it. Come to think of it, it needs a good clay. Hmm.

[bren]

What exactly is the tow rating of a c5 vette anyways?

[clyde]

I see no downside to buying the Vette.

I don't think you want to lump me in with Rob when it comes to cosmetics. Maintenance, probably... but have you seen the Altima? Heck, Rob would sh!t the bed if he saw the cosmetic condition of the Z06.

And I want the Miata. But I'd fly out and drive it back ;)

The Altima is pretty sweet given the condition in which it was delivered to you and the goal of beating it to death. The Z06 being the race car it is and you not having had a summer with it yet... You'll get there. ;)

Before my back went nuts, flying out and driving it back would have been the only option...and I'm actually tempted to do it with the Vette.

Seems like you'd have two fun cars on your hands. Seems also like potentially more upkeep / maintenance on cars that aren't what you really want. The Maita for ~$700ish seems cool but would probably require some TLC but probably mostly just for the top and perhaps some consumables, and the paint job if you cared that much.

The Miata's top is only two or three years old (and I think is top #3). The suspension is tired, but for its role doesn't *need* to be redone. Mechanically, it runs fine, no odd noises, vibrations, etc. Beyond that, ignorance is bliss.

[clyde]

What exactly is the tow rating of a c5 vette anyways?

What 4 mounted Hoosiers and the trailer to tow them weigh?

[clyde]

Have you looked around at all to see what's local?

For what's going to be a beater that's still at minimal out of pocket cost, I don't see a lot of point to looking at what's local. Just not enough money to be saved, but probably a lot of time to be spent (comparatively). :dunno:

[JST]

Before my back went nuts, flying out and driving it back would have been the only option...and I'm actually tempted to do it with the Vette.




http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2417/1543618687_80f824e19f.jpg

[lupinsea]

The Miata's top is only two or three years old (and I think is top #3). The suspension is tired, but for its role doesn't *need* to be redone. Mechanically, it runs fine, no odd noises, vibrations, etc. Beyond that, ignorance is bliss.

Ok, cool. So it's pretty much a new top.

From what I remember reading, the original Miata's suspension bushings were only designed for an 80,000 mile life span. After which for optimal performance it's recommended to replace them. Maybe it's a reasonably easy DIY job + alignment afterwards? Or for your intended purposes it's probably not needed.

And 110k on that car doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Especially for a fun little drop top roadster with good handling, RWD, stick, and a more or less bulletproof reliability reputation. For $700 in shipping costs? Sweet.

Also, for that car . . .

I thought I heard about an outfit that matched up people needing to transport cars across country and people needing to get across country. Cost was pretty much just gas money and a ~$50 fee and these people needing to get across country would then drive your car to you. Might be an alternative, espeically with the Miata. Can't remember what the service was called, though. I wouldn't do it on the Corvette, but the Miata?

[JST]

Ok, cool. So it's pretty much a new top.

From what I remember reading, the original Miata's suspension bushings were only designed for an 80,000 mile life span. After which for optimal performance it's recommended to replace them. Maybe it's a reasonably easy DIY job + alignment afterwards? Or for your intended purposes it's probably not needed.

And 110k on that car doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Especially for a fun little drop top roadster with good handling, RWD, stick, and a more or less bulletproof reliability reputation. For $700 in shipping costs? Sweet.


I agree. When I was helping a friend shop for used Miatas a number of years ago, we drove a serious POS that had been ridden hard and put away wet its entire life. The suspension was ten types of shot, and there were weird bobbing motions and grinding noises coming from damn near everywhere (which you couldn't hear at speed, because of the duct taped holes in the top). But even that car was a blast to drive.

[clyde]

Ok, cool. So it's pretty much a new top.

From what I remember reading, the original Miata's suspension bushings were only designed for an 80,000 mile life span. After which for optimal performance it's recommended to replace them. Maybe it's a reasonably easy DIY job + alignment afterwards? Or for your intended purposes it's probably not needed.

And 110k on that car doesn't seem like a big deal to me. Especially for a fun little drop top roadster with good handling, RWD, stick, and a more or less bulletproof reliability reputation. For $700 in shipping costs? Sweet.

Like I said, "tired," but fills the need.

Also, for that car . . .

I thought I heard about an outfit that matched up people needing to transport cars across country and people needing to get across country. Cost was pretty much just gas money and a ~$50 fee and these people needing to get across country would then drive your car to you. Might be an alternative, espeically with the Miata. Can't remember what the service was called, though. I wouldn't do it on the Corvette, but the Miata?

They're called driveaway companies. I know a number of people that have used them both as drivers and to have their cars moved. I suppose it could be an option for the Miata.

[John V]

What 4 mounted Hoosiers and the trailer to tow them weigh?

The image I have in my head of a C5 towing a Miata is really amusing right now.

The Z06 does tow really, really well. I have no idea what the trailer weighs - it has to be more than 200lbs. Maybe 250. With a full load of 8 tires and wheels, the whole rig is probably 600-650lbs? And I don't even notice it behind me. Hell, it still gets 23MPG on the freeway doing 75.

Uh... what are those 12" trailer tires rated for again? :eeps:

[Rob]

I am dissapointed that my generous offer to provide joy riding services before purchase have gone ignored. *sigh*

[clyde]

I am dissapointed that my generous offer to provide joy riding services before purchase have gone ignored. *sigh*
I wouldn't say ignored.

[lupinsea]

The image I have in my head of a C5 towing a Miata is really amusing right now.

The Z06 does tow really, really well. I have no idea what the trailer weighs - it has to be more than 200lbs. Maybe 250. With a full load of 8 tires and wheels, the whole rig is probably 600-650lbs? And I don't even notice it behind me. Hell, it still gets 23MPG on the freeway doing 75.

There should be plenty of power in the engine to tow. The big question is the chassis. I'm sure the Corvette's chassis is stout but I'm not sure it's is designed for much towing. I know our Volvo V50 is rated to tow 2000 lb. I'm guessing the Vette might be about that.



Uh... what are those 12" trailer tires rated for again? :eeps:

55 mph.

[ff]

55 mph.

Isn't it 45 MPH?

[John V]

There should be plenty of power in the engine to tow. The big question is the chassis. I'm sure the Corvette's chassis is stout but I'm not sure it's is designed for much towing. I know our Volvo V50 is rated to tow 2000 lb. I'm guessing the Vette might be about that.

55 mph.

Keep in mind that the Corvette has a full steel frame, not a unibody.

My (probably flawed) reasoning is as follows: people tow tire trailers with Miatas, CRXs, BMWs, all sorts of unibody cars. In the case of BMWs, the hitch attaches to the trunk floor (sheet metal). :ack:

In the case of the Vette, it's two big beefy frame rails running the length of the car. And the rear end, trans, cooling system are all sized for that big motor running full tilt - I would think a little bit of towing of a < 1000lb rig wouldn't stress the mechanicals too much.

John

[bren]

Isn't it 45 MPH?
I doubt it's even that fast.

I would think a little bit of towing of a < 1000lb rig wouldn't stress the mechanicals too much.
The better question might be whether there is a suitable location on the miata to install a tow bar.

Wasn't it just this past year that we saw the mid-year vette pulling a ~25ft boat?

[clyde]

I got a few more details about the car. It's Pewter. Not sure if the wheels are polished or chromed (sigh). The only thing that struck me is that rear decklid of the hatch doesn't seem to be flush with the bumper or quarter panel. It could be an optical thing, could be that the hatch isn't fully closed, it could be good ol' Bowling Green build quality, or it could be that it hit something (but that seems really unlikley as either the original or current owner probably would have done a lot of talking about it at the time). Even if it did hit something, that probably wouldn't stop me.

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=78

[ff]

The only thing that struck me is that rear decklid of the hatch doesn't seem to be flush with the bumper or quarter panel.

I wonder how prone those panels are to warping. From sitting in the sun, or whatever. In any case, the car appears to be in great shape.

[Sharp11]

I don't see any down sides anywhere in this deal, even if you didn't have the buy back option :dunno:

Plus, you love Corvettes, so what's stopping you?

Enjoy.

Ed

[JST]

I got a few more details about the car. It's Pewter. Not sure if the wheels are polished or chromed (sigh). The only thing that struck me is that rear decklid of the hatch doesn't seem to be flush with the bumper or quarter panel. It could be an optical thing, could be that the hatch isn't fully closed, it could be good ol' Bowling Green build quality, or it could be that it hit something (but that seems really unlikley as either the original or current owner probably would have done a lot of talking about it at the time). Even if it did hit something, that probably wouldn't stop me.

http://forums.carmudgeons.com/picture.php?albumid=1&pictureid=78

The wheels are nasty, but you'll buy a new set of Z06ish wheels for the street and use these to mount your track tires on.

Hey, don't you already have a Corvette?

[Josh (PA)]

I don't see any down sides anywhere in this deal, even if you didn't have the buy back option :dunno:

Plus, you love Corvettes, so what's stopping you?

Enjoy.

Ed

FWIW, I agree. I bet a 1999 Vette is still a better all around car than the charger, mustang or camaro on your list. It seems like there is zero monetary risk so it basically buys you a year to find something you *really* want. The Miata will be a nice nimble contrast to the Vette too, so that should be fun

[equ]

I kinda like it...

[FC]

That ass goes on forever - my biggest gripe on C5's.

[clyde]

Plus, you love Corvettes, so what's stopping you?


That it's not the Corvette I would buy if I was actually out looking for one? :dunno: (And I still don't have the list of RPO codes)

Hey, don't you already have a Corvette?

The smartest thing to do would be to get that one running...but, well... I could :irate: or :eeps: or even send a :toetap:in my own direction, but what would that solve? :ack:

Besides, it may become the parts car it was meant to be for someone else's Corvette. :eeps:

FWIW, I agree. I bet a 1999 Vette is still a better all around car than the charger, mustang or camaro on your list.

Those all have back seats, which would overcome my wife's main concern. Based on our history, I know that we don't *need* my car to have a back seat. It's a nice thing to have a couple times a year, but not a necessity.

[Rob]

Rob is available for:

Inspections

[lupinsea]

^^--- :lol:

Ever hopeful.

[lupinsea]

Keep in mind that the Corvette has a full steel frame, not a unibody.

My (probably flawed) reasoning is as follows: people tow tire trailers with Miatas, CRXs, BMWs, all sorts of unibody cars. In the case of BMWs, the hitch attaches to the trunk floor (sheet metal). :ack:

In the case of the Vette, it's two big beefy frame rails running the length of the car. And the rear end, trans, cooling system are all sized for that big motor running full tilt - I would think a little bit of towing of a < 1000lb rig wouldn't stress the mechanicals too much.

John

I'm aware of the full steel frame. It's what holds the FRP / composite body together. I was mostly thinking of the other bits of the car, the suspension and stuff like that. 1000 lb. probably wouldn't hurt it. Heck, even more probably wouldn't hurt it if you go easy at acceleration. I was thinking more along the lines if the Corvette was used to tow the Miata. :)






Isn't it 45 MPH?
The 12" tires on my Harbor Freight trailer say 55 mph max speed. Though even with a maxed out 1200 lb. load in the trailer I've done 60-65 on occation when I wasn't paying attention and several ~60 mph sustained freeway runs (~25+ of these). No worries. When I recently repacked my bearings they looked brand new after a year of use.

Now the 8" tires are rated at 45 mph.




I wonder how prone those panels are to warping. From sitting in the sun, or whatever. In any case, the car appears to be in great shape.

If my old 1977 Corvette was any indication, the panels held up pretty good after 28 years. Some spiderweb crackling of the paint, scratches, etc. But the structural integrity of the fiberglass body was great. And that was with the technology of the day.

Any gap issues are more likely build / fitment quality issues. I can remember my friend with his Boxster saying he couldn't stand the Corvette's build quality. I didn't quite get what he was talking about and then he pointed out things such as the panel gaps, alignment of panels themselves, etc.

The bumpers on the C5 are another issue of build quality. Note where the rear bumper meets the body on the side (for example). It has a reasonably crisp edge and right joint but the area just back from the seam is slightly concaved. Like the plastic bumper material sucked in a bit while it was cooling in the mold or something. This is pretty common on the C5s I've seen.

In the grand scheme of things it's not a big deal to me and I'd rather a manufacturer focus development resources on the performance stuff. Which is exactly what GM seems to do with the Corvettes. But for some people it's annoying and one of a couple reasons the Corvettes are overlooked.

[equ]

My (probably flawed) reasoning is as follows: people tow tire trailers with Miatas, CRXs, BMWs, all sorts of unibody cars. In the case of BMWs, the hitch attaches to the trunk floor (sheet metal). :ack:

In the case of the Vette, it's two big beefy frame rails running the length of the car.

An aside, but the e90 steel frame is pretty kick ass as well (may not connect to hitch, that's another matter). The subaru that rear ended my 330xi found out about the frame rails under the trunk floor. They compressed about 1cm, while the whole front of the subaru was destroyed.

[clyde]

I can probably buy it for under $14k.

:lol: That line sure is funny in retrospect.

What is it about Corvette ownership that turns otherwise sane and rational people into idiots that can't objectively value their vehicles? :dunno:

[John V]

I doubt it's even that fast.

I'm aware of the full steel frame. It's what holds the FRP / composite body together. I was mostly thinking of the other bits of the car, the suspension and stuff like that. 1000 lb. probably wouldn't hurt it. Heck, even more probably wouldn't hurt it if you go easy at acceleration. I was thinking more along the lines if the Corvette was used to tow the Miata. :)

The 12" tires on my Harbor Freight trailer say 55 mph max speed. Though even with a maxed out 1200 lb. load in the trailer I've done 60-65 on occation when I wasn't paying attention and several ~60 mph sustained freeway runs (~25+ of these). No worries. When I recently repacked my bearings they looked brand new after a year of use.


I do take it easy when towing. But I have done sustained 75MPH stints (15 miles or so) because the other option (getting run off I-95) didn't seem fun.

Incidentally I started looking around at replacement tires for the thing. The trailer I bought (er... was given) is about 6 years old and spent lots of that time outside, so it was a little rusty. I took a sanding disc and drill to it and then resprayed the rusty sections. Otherwise it seems OK. The wheel bearings are still well packed and spin well. The tires (4.80-12 bias belted) aren't dry-rotted, but they don't give me a warm fuzzy (and yes, they're rated for 55MPH per the sidewall). I can get three ST145-12 tires to replace the bias ply tires on the trailer and given how understressed they would be in this application (330lbs each versus max rating of 1200 each) I wouldn't be too worried about towing them at 70-75MPH. Just trying to decide if it's worth $150 to me. :ack:


It could be an optical thing, could be that the hatch isn't fully closed, it could be good ol' Bowling Green build quality, or it could be that it hit something (but that seems really unlikley as either the original or current owner probably would have done a lot of talking about it at the time).

Pretty easy fix, that. I had to realign the trunklid on mine. Don't let that stop you.

There are lots of things about Corvette ownership that are kind of "quaint" when coming from a BMW or Porsche. You get used to them.

[bren]

:lol: That line sure is funny in retrospect.

What is it about Corvette ownership that turns otherwise sane and rational people into idiots that can't objectively value their vehicles? :dunno:
You should know better than to try and lowball a guy on a low mileage vette. ;)

[clyde]

You should know better than to try and lowball a guy on a low mileage vette. ;)

I didn't try to lowball him. Let's just say that I didn't get accurate pricing info initially. ;)

Just kind of annoying now that I had started getting enthusiastic about the idea.

[John V]

I didn't try to lowball him. Let's just say that I didn't get accurate pricing info initially. ;)

Just kind of annoying now that I had started getting enthusiastic about the idea.

I guess, MAYBE, I could see him asking a high price if he had a "special" C5 that had super low miles. The only car that comes to mind is a 2004 Z16 package Z06, since they didn't make many of them, it's the last year of the car, and thus it's the only C5 that is likely to hold its value well.

But a vanilla 1999 (not even an FRC or a convertible) in an ugly color? :lol:

[rumatt]

That ass goes on forever - my biggest gripe

The car / woman analogies just never seem to end..

[Sharp11]

To me, a 99 base model with a stick is perfect, I even like the color and wheels :), but if it's not the car you want, you can always recall the old adage "don't buy the deal" ...

[FC]

The car / woman analogies just never seem to end..

:confused:

[clyde]

I guess, MAYBE, I could see him asking a high price if he had a "special" C5 that had super low miles. The only car that comes to mind is a 2004 Z16 package Z06, since they didn't make many of them, it's the last year of the car, and thus it's the only C5 that is likely to hold its value well.

But a vanilla 1999 (not even an FRC or a convertible) in an ugly color? :lol:

To me, a 99 base model with a stick is perfect, I even like the color and wheels :), but if it's not the car you want, you can always recall the old adage "don't buy the deal" ...

For my purposes, it would have been the right car at the right price as it would have been a good solution that fit the problem (no effort to secure a below market price C5 > Miata to drive for 3-12 months while I figuring out what car I really want). Given what I've since learned...not so much.

The funny thing is that there is a guy in Baltimore asking $17k for a pewter '99 FRC that looks to be in about as good as the one in San Diego, although it has a few more miles.

While the FRC has the rarity thing going, I don't see the point of it as a daily driver car. It wasn't really decontented, but you couldn't get any of the extra comfort options (no sport seats, no dual zone hvac, no HUD etc). All the FRCs came with Z51 and 6M, which can be hard to find in the coupes (especially together), but...meh. Before I bought the wagon, I was looking pretty hard at the 99 and 00 FRCs. If I was going to buy a non Z06 C5 because that's the car I wanted, it would almost certainly be a coupe...and taking the top off is nice, too.

[John V]

Ed, what would make you prefer a '99 over any other year? :confused:

My point was not that an FRC would be preferable. My point was that this guy doesn't have a "special" car but he's obviously asking a "special car" price for it. The Corvette market is weird, to be sure, but the only cars that actually sell for big bucks are "special" cars with low mileage.

[Sharp11]

Ed, what would make you prefer a '99 over any other year? :confused:

My point was not that an FRC would be preferable. My point was that this guy doesn't have a "special" car but he's obviously asking a "special car" price for it. The Corvette market is weird, to be sure, but the only cars that actually sell for big bucks are "special" cars with low mileage.

It's not so much the year, but that particular generation of corvette I like (the C5).

Nothing special, I just like the looks.

Ed