View Full Version : The new m3
Well, I finally drove one...
It is absolutely awesome. I mean, I don't know what to say... I drove it for a friend who is shopping around. It rides and handles far better than I expected and it has a right to...
I am completely smitten. If I had no cars and had to buy a car right now, there is no question what I would get. Sure, old M's might be more hardcore, but this car is also real-world friendly and quite comfortable.
The particular one I drove was manual, 18"s and e93 ('vert), felt heavy in the back but still ok. The sound and power are great, the highway cruising is completely fine. It's not like the 335 is any quieter. It is easily the best bmw I have ever driven, and I think it may put my recent obsession, the carrera S, to shame.
I'm all mixed up. I could put the cayman & 330 towards it and just go to one car. I could sit still for a while. Generally I have a tendency to overrreact, and I loved the 135i a lot until I drove it numerous times... But still, this car feels like it's on a different planet. It is a driving experience/joy that would easily compare to the porsches.
JST, I officially hate you.
JST, two practical questions:
1. Do the same winter wheels 17" asa, et40 fit? I thought so, but not entirely sure.
2. Does the same 17" spare fit? I've actually just received delivery of the e60 spare, that is supposed to fit the 330i/335i per the e90 b'fest forum. I would expect so...
Shit. I don't want to hear this.
I really, really want one.
Nick M3
02-14-2009, 04:48 PM
JST, two practical questions:
1. Do the same winter wheels 17" asa, et40 fit? I thought so, but not entirely sure.
2. Does the same 17" spare fit? I've actually just received delivery of the e60 spare, that is supposed to fit the 330i/335i per the e90 b'fest forum. I would expect so...
I don't believe that 17 will clear the front brakes.
I don't believe that 17 will clear the front brakes.
I am pretty sure that's right. I've read that the 17" spare from the old E46 that I used to carry in the E46 M3 won't fit, though I haven't tried it; I suppose that it's possible that the E60 spare would fit if it has a different offset, or with a spacer, but I think at the end of the day it probably won't.
So far, I haven't found a spare tire option for the M3. Lame, but I've basically stopped worrying and learned to love the bomb. There's a fair amount of discussion on this topic both at bimmerfest and at M3post.com.
For snow tires, I'm running the Sport Edition (ASA) wheels in 18", 8" front and 9" rear. The great thing about these wheels is that they look pretty good and are stupid cheap--I think the whole set was like $7XX. I had a set of 18" snows that I used on my 335 that are the right size. M3post also has great info on snow wheels; unfortunately, it sounds like TireRack is out of the 8" Sport Edition wheels, but they have some other options.
That's a good deal on the winter set... Bummer for me that neither spare nor winters are likely fits..
Anyway, this was a knee jerk reaction perhaps. As I posted, I overreact and then it goes away. I drove my 330i zsp to the m3 test drive and back. The M makes the sports package 3er feel rather poor in handling etc. Begins to feel like an average car. The handling gap between the zhp and the e46m3 never felt this big. Also the zhp distinctly rode better than the e46m3, whereas this car has the ride/handling figured out - at least to my easy 4-5/10ths test drive. I did see about 95-100mph briefly.
I think one reason for my delight is the willing turn-in. I'll have to drive one properly to see if this is an illusion or real. The steering did feel light at low speeds, not sure if the tech package fixes that or not, I'll have to do some research.
Later in the afternoon, took my croc for a drive. I still find some things about the cayman better (steering feel, clutch/shifter, sound and of course that awesome mid-engined lightness). The M is faster, rides better (I don't have PASM), sounds a bit more industrial yet far quieter. It drives smaller than I'd expect and it is actually quite comfortable on the highway. It is very well figured out.
As things stand, it would be stupid of me to sell/trade my cayman. The engine is barely broken in (at 16k easy miles), it is still quite gorgeous and in basically new condition. So it stays..
I could sell the 330i for it, but then, what's the point of keeping a cayman and an m3?
Oh well, I guess if for whatever reason, I need to go to a one car strategy, there is a great candidate.
Although I own an e92 M3, and due to the enormity of the purchase I am forced to think it is the best car ever made, I'm a bit surprised that you found it more entertaining than a Carrera S. I found the 997.5 to be definitely more fun to drive (better handling, better brakes, better steering feel, etc.) just exceptionally less practical.
Also, one can now find a "gently" used 996 GT3 for the same price as a decently optioned new e92 M3. If only my better half hadn't refused to ever ride in the GT3 I was looking at...
With regard to rims for the e90/92/93 M3, I know you can run some 17" ET40s on a e92 335. The front brakes on the M3 are slightly bigger but you might still be able to squeeze them on. Your best bet would be to just follow JST's lead and get a cheap set of 18"s.
Somewhat unwillingly, I'm a big bmw fan, I just cannot get away from them. I'm also still smitten by my cayman. I had a 996 a while ago and never quite connected in the same way. I had a brief 997S obsession recently but really, I feel stronger about the m3. It's hard to describe but my croc has a few things over the 997 (not sure what, lightness, weight dist, steering feel). The m3 is simply the best bmw made.
Oh, btw, I wonder why people keep comparing 335's to m3's. We drove a 335 (auto albeit) right before the m3. There is absolutely no comparison. Not only are the cars on different planets, but the straightline didn't feel close to me either. This was an 09 so perhaps the software is not that great? :dunno:
The beauty of the 335 is what you can do to it with an inexpensive software download. I am betting the car you drove didn't have that. It still has other performance shortcomings, of course. Oh, and don't believe the hype - the auto is horrible compared to the manual. It might be faster, but it's not anywhere close to as good of a ride. I haven't driven the new M3, so I don't know how it will compare, but on it's own, I love the 335 for what it is - a really fast sedan that is well built, has decent amenities and is really fun to drive.
Nick M3
02-15-2009, 12:23 AM
My big complaints about the E93 are as follows:
1) Unbelievably soggy normal throttle response. Like, worse than my '01 325 was. Luckily, you can set it faster, but it's annoying.
2) Power increase really isn't enough - around town, it is so heavy that it feels slower than my M3 (although this goes away when drag becomes the predominant factor). This probably has something to do with the fact that my hp/wt ratio is actually better than the M3 'vert, and the V8 doesn't have much more torque, either.
Really, actually, that's it. It's an incredibly well sorted package that delivers both comfort and sharp handling without any real compromises.* Also, I like the way the engine sounds. A lot.
* Oink oink.
Nick M3
02-15-2009, 12:25 AM
The beauty of the 335 is what you can do to it with an inexpensive software download. I am betting the car you drove didn't have that. It still has other performance shortcomings, of course. Oh, and don't believe the hype - the auto is horrible compared to the manual. It might be faster, but it's not anywhere close to as good of a ride. I haven't driven the new M3, so I don't know how it will compare, but on it's own, I love the 335 for what it is - a really fast sedan that is well built, has decent amenities and is really fun to drive.
As I keep saying to angry slushbox owners, the 6spd auto in the 335 is very much at it's best when you're beating on the car. And it's a pretty miserable experience at all other times.
IMHO, the 335 delivers more grunt off the line, but it dies when you start flogging it.
I actually didn't drive the 335 this time, I was a passenger as my friend was shopping. It was also auto and x-drive. So take my slowness comments with a grain of salt... A couple of times, I asked him to floor it and he said he was, perhaps he wasn't but the engine was making a lot of noise. I've found some 335/135's to be absolute beasts in a straight line. This didn't feel like that from the passenger seat. It also was not significantly quieter than the m3 and perhaps louder under certain circumstances. Sometimes bmw slushies are louder (since the e46 330).
Later in the day, for myself, I drove an m3 coupe (:eeps:). This car was noticeably lighter, faster in a straight line. But the 'vert at no point felt slow. In both, the engine pulls willingly from 3k rpm. I thought it was quite torquey (but I'm not into american v8's so there).
I didn't notice anything with the throttle response. Both drives were brief. I really think the downside is mileage/range. I didn't find it revved too much on the highway either. Maybe as absolute numbers, but the engine has a honda/zhp engine feel to it in how it likes high revs. When I was moderately/street aggressive, I found myself shifting around 6k. Crusing above 3k seems to be no problem.
One more question, JST... Does the technology package change steering noticeably? The coupe I drove didn't have it and the 'vert did. I remember having no complaints with the 'vert steering but finding the coupe steering too light. I didn't set any parameters in either car. I hit the power button in the non-tech car, to see if affected steering, but it didn't seem to. If the tech package indeed changes steering, it would be a must for me.
I also drove different cars to these test drives. I drove the 'vert after the 330i and then my e90 felt terrible. I drove the coupe after the cayman and the m3 felt ok, but not stunning. Also the salesman came along in the second drive and there was traffic etc. etc. These introduce bias...
I guess in summary bmw has really upped the game. I always thought of the e46m3 as a half good car. This one goes all the way. Turn-in, torque, smoothness, ride are all much improved. Yes it's a bit less raw but so is the 997S. Anyone considering a boxster/cayman/carrera in the 50k+ price range should drive one...
I think the Technology Package does affect the steering, though I am not certain. My car does not have it, and one of my few dynamic complaints is that the steering is too light.
I've never driven a convertible M3, but I can't imagine that the extra weight is good for the car. IMHO, the fact that the sedan has five real seats, four doors, and is actually a lot cheaper makes the choice a no-brainer, but I understand some folks like the coupe or want a top that goes down.
Having lived with the M3 for about 3500 miles, I have the following complaints (in order of importance):
1. Range: Gas mileage is laughably bad, which is fine--the performance comes at a price. But fitting only a 15.X gallon tank to a car that struggles to get 22 mpg on the highway is simply stupid.
2. Steering feel: The steering is too light. If the technology package changes this, it might be worth it for that alone, though I am not generally a fan of adjustable shock absorbers, which always seem to be either too stiff or too soft.
3. Throttle mapping: Nick's point about the languid throttle map is a good one. Although this makes puttering around town a cinch, it also makes the performance harder to access. Pressing the sport button makes the throttle response almost savage, and throttle inputs on the highway or at low speeds are translated into spikes that make the car feel twitchy. I'd rather have a single map somewhere between the two that came with the car.
Other than that, I have no complaints (oh, other than the lack of a spare). It's a phenomenal car to drive, and even my wife (who isn't really a car nut) agrees that it's more fun than the 335.
As far as performance v. the 335, it's clearly faster as you pile on revs, but the 335 feels quicker around town because it's got a bigger torque hit down low. As Nick says, the 335 starts to run out of breath as the revs increase, but the M3's engine winds out like a runaway chain reaction--it feels like it'll never stop. And the sound is freaking spectacular.
Equ, there's a bit of a grass is greener thing here--I'd love to have a Cayman S/330 combo, but I'm dealing with a strict 2 car limit imposed by other household stakeholders. I can see the appeal of having a single car that (almost) does it all, but having the chance to move back and forth between two cars that are superlative in different ways just gives you more chances to appreciate the different ways that the cars comport themselves.
Nick M3
02-15-2009, 11:24 AM
Tech package allows you to adjust the steering between multiple settings, and allows you to choose from a bunch of throttle maps as well. I would want it in a lease car, although all the extra crap would scare the shit out of me if I wanted to own one.
Edit: And I should note that you can actually find a very decent throttle mapping if you go looking.
Sharp11
02-15-2009, 11:58 AM
Equ needs to be in a convertible, if it takes an M3 to get him there, then my job is done :)
Ed
Not that it matters, but I think the concept of the 335 running out of steam as the revs pile on compared to the M3 is probably one of perception. The 335 has a flat torque line, for the most part. I don't think it runs out of steam, I think it just doesn't increase as the noise, speed and excitement does. Normally aspirated engines, meanwhile, generate more torque as they rev up and that's what you expect to feel.
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