diagnose clyde's car

[clyde]

Symptoms:

1. At any speed or road condition, steering wheel may begin to vibrate lightly, then builds up to pretty severe shaking within a short period of time (seconds as opposed to minutes) and doesn't stop until the car comes to a stop. Intermittent. Happened once about a month ago and didn't repeat until tonight. Takes a few miles of driving after the car has stopped for a period of time to start when it happens at all.

2. There seems to be more play in the steering wheel at center than there used to be, particularly at low speeds. Sometimes, but not always.

I haven't jacked the car up to shake the wheels (too late, too cold, too lazy). Not sure if there are any noises.

First thing that comes to mind is tie rods/ends. Then CV joints. Then steering rack. Does that sound right?

[dan]

ball bearings

[dredmo]

Sounds like what happened to our old Protege. It was CV Joints.

Eventually they got bad enough to where the sounds/feels were not rare at all.

[IndyMike]

It's possible there could be a multitude of issues coming into play at the same time.

S1 could be brake related (calipers, rotors, etc.). Does the car tend to pull more pronouncedly to one side or the other under vibration?

S2 could be any of the above mentioned.

Sunday and Monday look like warmer days for your region. Quit slacking and get under it. :)

[clyde]

It's possible there could be a multitude of issues coming into play at the same time.

S1 could be brake related (calipers, rotors, etc.). Does the car tend to pull more pronouncedly to one side or the other under vibration?

S2 could be any of the above mentioned.

Sunday and Monday look like warmer days for your region. Quit slacking and get under it. :)

It's going in Monday morning and all the things I listed should be covered.

I don't think brakes have anything to do with it. The fronts looked good last I looked (relatively recently). The rears could use new pads and rotors. The vibration seems like it may be worst off-throttle without brakes, but basically, braking doesn't seem to make any kind of difference. The vibration feels like it begins at the right front, but it quickly becomes a side to side and up and down thing, equal in severity in all directions.

I don't see any odd tire wear (cupping, scalloping, etc), fwiw.

[Sharp11]

Clyde,

Did you check the Car Talk website database? Sounds like the sort of thing they'd have encountered at some point - perhaps not with your exact make and model, but it could get you thinking.

Ed

[Sharp11]

I'm wondering if it could be a bad motor mount.

Ed

[equ]

Which car is this, the nissan truck?

[ff]

Clyde,

Did you check the Car Talk website database? Sounds like the sort of thing they'd have encountered at some point - perhaps not with your exact make and model, but it could get you thinking.

Ed

Might be fun to call in and have click and clack diagnose it!

[Sharp11]

Might be fun to call in and have click and clack diagnose it!

Seems like classic Car Talk material, doesn't it :)

[ff]

Seems like classic Car Talk material, doesn't it :)

Exactly what I was thinking.

[clyde]

Which car is this, the nissan truck?
the wagon

Ed, it's not a motor mount type of vibration.

[John V]

Does the vibration increase in frequency with increasing speed?

The play in the steering sounds like tie rod ends or ball joints to me. Vibration from CV joints usually gets really bad at freeway speeds and isn't generally bad at low speeds. Vibration from ball joints / tie rod ends happens at pretty much every speed, and the steering "vagueness" gets very bad on freeway offramps, where if they get really bad it's hard to keep the car in a contant arc.

[Sharp11]

Why the problem takes time to "build up" is a puzzler - could it be heat related?

Also, what would cause it to be intermittent - I'd think a steering rack problem, or cv joint (assume it's an xi model?) would be more constant? Don't know, just wondering.

Is it possible tranny/drivetrain are migrating symptoms through the steering?

Wild guesses, but what the hell.

Let us know what happens.

Ed

[Sharp11]

the wagon

Ed, it's not a motor mount type of vibration.

Clyde,

I came across this:

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1er2z-03-bmw-325xi-shaking-frontend

Brake caliper doesn't release all the way and after a short period of driving, heats up the rotor which warps and vibrates. You stop, everything cools down - but drive some more and the whole cycle begins again.

Ed

[clyde]

Does the vibration increase in frequency with increasing speed?

The play in the steering sounds like tie rod ends or ball joints to me. Vibration from CV joints usually gets really bad at freeway speeds and isn't generally bad at low speeds. Vibration from ball joints / tie rod ends happens at pretty much every speed, and the steering "vagueness" gets very bad on freeway offramps, where if they get really bad it's hard to keep the car in a contant arc.

Vibration gets less severe with decreasing speed, but it's non-linear. Hard to say if it gets worse with higher speed. It's very much present even below 25mph.

Clyde,

I came across this:

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1er2z-03-bmw-325xi-shaking-frontend

Brake caliper doesn't release all the way and after a short period of driving, heats up the rotor which warps and vibrates. You stop, everything cools down - but drive some more and the whole cycle begins again.

Ed

That sounds possible. It could better explain the intermittentness...it sticks and then it doesn't.

I'm thinking that the steering play and the vibration might be separate issues. Hmm.

[Nick M3]

I'm wondering if it could be a bad motor mount.

Ed
No way. Virtually impossible. And trust me, I know bad E46 motor mounts.

[IndyMike]

Clyde,

I came across this:

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1er2z-03-bmw-325xi-shaking-frontend

Brake caliper doesn't release all the way and after a short period of driving, heats up the rotor which warps and vibrates. You stop, everything cools down - but drive some more and the whole cycle begins again.

Ed
That's exactly what happened to my Touring.

Last April I had just had the winter rigging swapped out for the summer setup, and on the way driving from the tire center back to home after a couple of stoplights the front end started vibrating like crazy. I turned right around and went back to the center to see if they'd dorked something up. They rechecked the wheel weights and the whole nine yards, but it still continued to vibrate.

I then took it in to my inde shop and they diagnosed it as a brake issue. The left front caliper had warped, so they replaced it and added new pads, rotors and sensors to both front brakes, flushed the brake fluid and since it was about time for Tech II I had them do that as well.

$984 later it drove like new again.

[clyde]

Clyde,

I came across this:

http://www.justanswer.com/questions/1er2z-03-bmw-325xi-shaking-frontend

Brake caliper doesn't release all the way and after a short period of driving, heats up the rotor which warps and vibrates. You stop, everything cools down - but drive some more and the whole cycle begins again.

Ed

Winner.

[IndyMike]

Winner.
What do I win? Okay, I'll be magnanimous and split it with Ed. :)

Just out of curiousity, how many miles does the Touring have on it?

[Sharp11]

Winner.

I hope it doesn't end up costing you a lot of money.

Good luck.

Ed

[ff]

Too bad it's not on the Armada, because Nissan would replace everything for free.

[FC]

Of course I just saw this thread, but my immediate guess was that it was a heat-related issue. Anyhow, good luck.

[dan]

sounds like a good time to ditch the car and buy a CX-9

[clyde]

What do I win? Okay, I'll be magnanimous and split it with Ed. :)

Just out of curiousity, how many miles does the Touring have on it?

80k. Until today, on the original calipers at all four corners. I'm not positive which one was stuck (yet), but If I had to guess, it's the front right.

I hope it doesn't end up costing you a lot of money.

Good luck.


I expect the caliper to be covered. We'll see about pads/rotors when they call back...

[clyde]

sounds like a good time to ditch the car and buy a CX-9

If I only knew someone that wanted to buy a 325xiT with a stick and no moonroof. ;)

[equ]

80k. Until today, on the original calipers at all four corners. I'm not positive which one was stuck (yet), but If I had to guess, it's the front right.

I expect the caliper to be covered. We'll see about pads/rotors when they call back...

How does it get covered? Is it cpo?

[IndyMike]

80k. Until today, on the original calipers at all four corners. I'm not positive which one was stuck (yet), but If I had to guess, it's the front right.
Left front on the spousal unit's SpeedWagon, and at about 50k miles.

I think the difference shows the earlier additional maintenance that AT equipped cars require as compared to their MT siblings.

That, and maybe my 110 pound wife has a heavier than necessary brake-foot. :irate:

[clyde]

How does it get covered? Is it cpo?
Before the factory warranty expired, I bought a policy with Warranty Direct that went out to 100k miles or 4 years from the end of the factory warranty.

My experience with them has been mixed. They haven't paid for everything that I would have wanted them to, but it has more than paid for itself (even if I'd done all the repairs myself) and there's still a year or 20k miles left.

[equ]

I almost bought their coverage when my s4 avant was running out of warranty (then I sold the car). Let us know how it goes...

[operknockity]

If I only knew someone that wanted to buy a 325xiT with a stick and no moonroof. ;)

Hmmmmm....... Maybe Terry Kennedy :dunno:

[lupinsea]

Funny. . . reading your first post it sounded like the phenomenon known as "Death Wobble" in the Jeep'n community. . . specifically, the '97-06 TJ Wranglers. Something to do with a compounding frequency vibration due to the odd combination of a solid front axle (connecting left and right "suspension" parts), road imperfections, and the same type/hardness of bushings used in all the suspension links.

All though "Death Wobble" gets so severe it nearly yanks the steering wheel out of your hands and has your teeth rattling around in your head, and doesn't stop until you bring the Jeep to an absolute standstill.

Fortunately, it hasn't been an issue for me.

But there are specific things that cause it, most related to worn bushings, worn tires, and suspension linkages that need to be checked / re-torqued.

However, you do not have a Jeep so nevermind.

[clyde]

Oh, so just an update...

New caliper covered, new rotors and pads not. The quote for doing that stuff :yikes: :ack: :wtf:

A few moments of: "You know what I can get the parts for and you know how long it actually takes. Why should I give you all my money? If I don't mind spending a little on labor and you expect me to ever bring the car in again for anything, what do you think a fair price would be?" That did the trick well enough.